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CNN This Morning
Biden, Trump Agree to Two Debates; Romney: I Would Have Pardoned Trump if I Were Biden; Putin Meets with Xi in Show of Strength. Aired 6-6:30a ET
Aired May 16, 2024 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: It's Thursday, May 16. Right now, on CNN THIS MORNING, let the debates begin. Joe Biden and Donald Trump agreeing to face off twice. Round one, less than six weeks away, right here on CNN.
[05:59:50]
And Michael Cohen returns to the witness stand, ready to be branded a liar again by Donald Trump's defense team.
Plus, Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping are together in Beijing, pledging to deepen their partnership. Who needs who more?
All right, 6 a.m. here in Washington. A live look at the White House on this Thursday morning. We're almost at Friday, everyone.
Good morning. I'm Kasie Hunt. It's wonderful to have you with us.
It's on. Joe Biden and Donald Trump, apparently agreeing on something. Both men confirming they will participate in two debates. The first one's going to be in late June right here on CNN.
It is a monumental break with tradition, debate No. 1 so early on the political calendar that neither Biden nor Trump will have formally accepted their party's nomination. And that's unprecedented in modern history.
It all came together quite suddenly, I would say, on Wednesday morning, following this challenge from Biden.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Donald Trump lost two debates to me in 2020. Since then, he hasn't shown up for a debate. Now he's acting like he wants to debate me again. Well, make my day, pal. I'll even do it twice. So let's pick the dates, Donald. I hear you're free on Wednesdays.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Ooh, OK.
The former president did not take long to RSVP. He hit back with this jab, posting, "It's my great honor to accept the CNN Debate against Crooked Joe Biden, the WORST PRESIDENT in the History of the United States and a true Threat to Democracy on June 27th. Likewise, I accept the ABC debate against Crooked Joe on September 10. Thank you, DJT!"
It is rather interesting that the Biden campaign insisted that one of the rules is going to be they will cut the microphones to eliminate interruptions and if someone talks too long so that they can avoid scenes like this one.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: The question is --
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: You've put a lot of new Supreme Court justice --
BIDEN: The question is --
TRUMP: Radical left.
BIDEN: Would you shut up, man?
TRUMP: Who is --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Our panel is here: former federal prosecutor Elliot Williams; Jonah Goldberg, the co-founder and editor in chief of "The Dispatch"; and Mark McKinnon, former adviser to George W. Bush and to John McCain.
Welcome to all of you. Good morning.
Mark, you've written this about these debates. You say, quote, "I view the challenged throw-down as a classic master stroke for Biden. I know from experience, the most important asset a presidential candidate can have is the perception of strength. The worst thing they can have is the perception of weakness, which is what Biden was dealing with until this morning."
You, of course, wrote that yesterday.
Is this not also an acknowledgement from the Biden team that they were behind, and they needed to do something to shake up this race?
MARK MCKINNON, FORMER ADVISOR TO GEORGE W. BUSH AND JOHN MCCAIN: Yes. That's that's how you win elections.
HUNT: OK.
MCKINNON: Acknowledge the obvious. You get an X-ray, you've got a tumor, you say take the chemo. Yes, exactly.
HUNT: So what do you think he needs to -- I mean, they must be confident that he can actually step up to the plate, because this is not without risk. MCKINNON: It is absolutely high-risk, but I think first of all, what's the other option? A, that he doesn't debate, right? And that's -- that's just not an option. That would just prolong and extend the notion that Biden is weak and afraid to debate Donald Trump.
And he does have a real perception problem about -- about his age, about being frail, about being -- you know, is he mentally acute enough to be president?
So the way to fix that is to get onstage and prove it. You know? I mean, there's questions about both of them. And the only way we're going to find out is whether or not they both get on stage.
So Biden could have avoided this for months and done the classic, you know, stand back on the incumbent and -- and face months of stories of Trump hammering him for refusing to debate.
HUNT: Right.
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Well, sorry.
MCKINNON: Yes. Jump in.
WILLIAMS: But the remarkable thing about that is, in Trump's social media, he actually lowers expectations on President Biden and saying this guy can barely string as sentence again.
MCKINNON: Hundred percent.
WILLIAMS: And I'm up again. Which is -- I mean, many things in our political lives now don't follow the playbook anymore, but debate 101 is make your opponent seem better than they are. Such that -- you know, manage the expectations going in. So people --
MCKINNON: Totally true. Totally true with debates. I mean, it's all about expectations. And Trump is making a classic mistake by lowering expectations for Joe Biden.
JONAH GOLDBERG, CO-FOUNDER & EDITOR IN CHIEF, "THE DISPATCH": I agree he's making a mistake. And I agree with you entirely, this was a very smart move by Biden, from a position of weakness. But it was a smart move to do.
The problem with the lowering expectations thing, which I agree with you on -- on the old earth logic rules.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
GOLDBERG: Really.
HUNT: Old earth logic rules. Put that on a pillow.
GOLDBERG: But the -- the problem is he goes on rally after rally, talking about how Biden is an invalid and all that kind of stuff. He can't, all of a sudden -- well, he could, because he's Trump. But like, it would be weird for him to all of a sudden say, but he's a brilliant debater.
WILLIAMS: Just say nothing, right? He could avoid that one extra line in the tweet that -- that sort of points out what a bad -- because you're creating an environment where Biden walks into the room and doesn't begin drooling upon himself.
GOLDBERG: Right.
WILLIAMS: And then seen as a huge win.
GOLDBERG: I do think the other factor that is -- was smart about this is because, with so much early voting --
HUNT: Yes.
GOLDBERG: -- you need to tell people earlier about, you know, the differences between them. Because right now, you know, the conversation is weirdly not about Trump. I mean, you wouldn't know that from watching any of the cable channels with this trial going on.
[06:05:05]
But it's really not about Trump. It's really about the state of the country and all that kind of stuff.
HUNT: Yes.
GOLDBERG: And making it a choice rather than a referendum, you've got to do it much earlier.
HUNT: Right. Well, we -- and we've talked about, too, how age is obviously kind of a dominant theme. It really, in many ways, is code for weakness when you really dig into the numbers.
But again, this is what the American people are expecting was -- This is how Mitt Romney put it in an interview last night. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): The image that comes to mind is those two old guys on the Muppets, you know, that sat in the back.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Statler and Waldorf. Yes.
ROMNEY: Statler and Waldorf, all right? That -- that's what comes to mind.
But I actually think there'll be a huge audience for these debates.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So just to remind you who Statler and Waldorf are, watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALDORF, MUPPET: It looks like two ancient old guys sitting in a theater box watching television.
STATLER, MUPPET: That's crazy. No one would watch junk like that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: I mean, it's on-point.
WILLIAMS: It's on-point. Now, who's Statler and who's Waldorf?
HUNT: I don't know. I have absolutely no idea.
WILLIAMS: In this match-up, how do we identify the two?
The other thing, to pick up on Jonah's point, one of the points raised in the Biden campaign's letter to the Presidential Commission was, these are too late. And people start making their decisions, as you heard before, months before.
And the idea that the commission -- you know, may its memory be a blessing. But the --
(CROSSTALK)
WILLIAMS: I'm sorry.
HUNT: No, it's fine.
WILLIAMS: No, but the idea that the commission would have scheduled its first -- the Presidential Commission on Debates would have scheduled the first debate in September just doesn't track how the country votes now.
HUNT: I will say, Mark, one of the consistent features of every presidential campaign I have covered in my career is hatred on both sides for the Commission on Presidential Debates.
MCKINNON: Hundred percent. I was there in 2000. We tried to do an end run around the commission.
And listen, the purpose of the commission is -- is a noble one, which is to ensure that there's going to be a debate and that there are rules established.
In this case we don't need that, because they've agreed to debate; and they've agreed to the rules. So see you, commission.
HUNT: We're going to talk more about that.
MCKINNON: Nobody cares about the commission. Other than the commission.
HUNT: The commission itself.
MCKINNON: Nobody is out there, "Marge, I'm not going to watch this, because it's the commission -- it's not the commission debate."
HUNT: And I think the campaigns know that, right? At the end of the day, all people want to do is see these two guys onstage.
All right. Coming up next here, Republican Senator Mitt Romney. We played you a little bit of what he thinks about the debate there, but we're also going to show you what he said about his thoughts on pardoning Donald Trump.
Plus, Democratic Senator John Fetterman joins me live to discuss his new mental health initiative.
And this is something you've got to see this morning. Newly released dashcam footage showing the moments leading up to a semi-truck nearly driving off the bridge. We'll have that and five more things you have to see.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:12:14]
HUNT: Welcome back.
Republican Senator -- and a reminder, 2012 Republican presidential nominee -- Mitt Romney, sharing his thoughts on presidential pardons.
(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)
ROMNEY: Had I been President Biden when the Justice Department brought on indictments, I would have immediately pardoned him. I'd had pardoned President Trump. Why? Because it makes me, President Biden, the big guy, and the person I pardoned the little guy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: And of course, Romney's not just any student sitting senator. as we mentioned, he was the Republican presidential nominee in 2012 and is perhaps the sharpest GOP critic of Donald Trump in the Senate.
He voted to convict him not once but twice in two impeachments.
All right. Were you surprised to hear Romney say this? And he wasn't directly asked about whether Trump -- you know, he would've done something like this. It's -- it's sort of a remarkable thing, especially as the Supreme Court is now weighing, you know, should Trump be immune from all this.
GOLDBERG: Yes, I mean, I've only heard the clip that we played here, but I -- this was talked about a lot. You know, traditionally, you're supposed to accept your guilt if you accept a pardon, right? And I've always thought this would make immense sense if it kept Trump from ever running again.
If he just said, here's the deal. You're pardoned. My left bank -- my left base will hate me for this. They hate it, you know, the same way people hated Gerry Ford. But if it keeps Trump out of politics and spares it all of this, it would have been a no-brainer to me.
But that wasn't necessarily Mitt's rationale there. It was much more of a political thing. Maybe in the fuller context, he's got other reasons.
WILLIAMS: It's interesting that you mentioned Gerald Ford and it's just --
GOLDBERG: Sexiest president ever.
WILLIAMS: Sexiest president ever. Very sexy, but pointing back to his pardon of Nixon to unite the country. And part of the rationale is, yes, this guy did horrible things, but there will be so much unrest on the other side if we don't pardon him. Therefore, it's worth this pardon.
OK. Fine. Whatever. That's a defensible view.
The problem is that he goes on to say that Biden should have also pressured New York prosecutors to not bring their cases, and that's disgraceful. There's -- there's no -- that's bad.
MCKINNON: Yes. I don't like the idea of pressuring prosecutors. But -- but I think it's an interesting notion. But I think you have to let some of the evidence in the trial play out. First of all, what are you pardoning him for?
HUNT: Right, yes. And here, Romney did kind of offer a little bit more of an explanation of what he was going for here. Let's watch that.
We may not have that. Do we have that?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ROMNEY: Won't get resolved before the election. It's not going to have an impact before the election. And frankly, the country doesn't want to have to go through prosecuting a former president.
I think the American people have recognized that President Trump did have an inappropriate affair with someone who was a -- a porn star. I think they realize that.
Then they realize he took classified documents he shouldn't have and didn't handle them properly. I think they understand that, as well. I think they realize he's been lying about the election in 2020. They know those things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[06:15:09]
HUNT: So Jonah, he seems to be saying it would be better for the country to avoid this, which, you know, it's just -- what do you think, based on his -- I guess it's an explanation.
GOLDBERG: It's very difficult to run through the full contrafactual, right? But like, look, I think everyone get -- Trump and a lot of people get the causality backwards when they talk about how these trials are election interference.
And again, I don't like the Bragg trial. I think it shouldn't have been brought.
HUNT: Yes.
GOLDBERG: But the -- the causality is -- is Trump ran for president as an act of judicial interference, right? He announced so early, so as to make it more difficult to prosecute him.
They're not -- he's not being prosecuted to make it difficult for him to run for president. And -- and avoiding all of that -- if Romney's theory would have worked, I would have been fine with it.
MCKINNON: It just reminds me that Romney would have made a great president. He was a terrible candidate that God, he governs really well. It's the right approach. It's the right ideas right now.
HUNT: Yes. I mean, I covered that campaign from -- from the press plane. And Mitt Romney has certainly come to play a pretty unique spot in our system, in a Donald Trump-driven world.
But I think a lot of people have learned a lot about a man who was very differently viewed on the campaign trail than he is now.
All right. Coming up, how the kicker for the Kansas City Chiefs managed to anger women -- I'm going to go with that. That is an understatement, in that tease -- in his commencement speech. We'll show you some of what he said.
Plus, a ritual like no other at the Naval Academy, which is one of the five things you have to see this morning.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:20:59]
HUNT: All right. Welcome back.
Just a short time ago, Chinese leader Xi Jinping greeted Russian President Vladimir Putin in Beijing. As he kicked off a two-day state visit, the two have had their first summit and signed a joint declaration hoping to show the world that their close ties are getting stronger.
All of this, of course, in the shadow of Russia's latest attacks and Ukraine bringing Putin international scorn.
CNN's Marc Stewart joins us live now from Beijing.
Mark, good morning to you. Thank you so much for being here. What is the overall goal here? And what are the implications for the West?
MARC STEWART, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Kasie.
I think first and foremost, it's about this idea of mutual admiration for each other from a military standpoint, from a political standpoint and from a strategic standpoint. And that was very obvious today. We've been watching these images come
in. There was this red-carpet welcome for Vladimir Putin. There has been so much military pageantry.
But let's make it clear. This is not a visit just between Vladimir Putin and Xi Jinping and to show off this no-limits partnership between China and Russia.
This is very much a way to snub the West and the United States, especially as China really tries to assert itself as this leader in a a new world order of sorts of way of viewing the world than the West.
On this topic of Ukraine, which is of course, at center of so many of these observations, it's the fact that Xi Jinping and China has not condemned the war in Ukraine. It is saying that it's a neutral observer in all of this.
In fact, Xi Jinping is calling for peace talks, or has suggested that at one point. In fact, I heard from one source here on the ground in mainland China who suggested that Xi Jinping very much would like to be a peace negotiator between Russia and Ukraine.
So in many ways, this is also tilting to a beneficial relationship for China.
With all of that said, Vladimir Putin did not travel alone. He brought top military advisors with him. He brought top security advisors with him. So this is going to be very much an involved conversation between all of these different parties. Not only about the war with Ukraine, but also the worldview and the conflict in Gaza.
I should also point out, Kasie, of course, it is evening now here in China. It's Thursday. And the two men will celebrate this relationship, 75 years of diplomatic ties between China and Russia, at a gala that is set for this evening here in Beijing.
HUNT: All right. Marc Stewart for us in Beijing. Marc, thanks very much for that report.
All right, 23 minutes past the hour, five things you have to see this morning.
Dashcam video of a crash that almost caused a semi-truck to drive off of a Kentucky bridge. The driver tried to avoid a swerving car, and the truck ended up dangling over the Ohio River. She was eventually rescued by a firefighter. Thank goodness.
Right-wing Israeli protesters caught on video here ransacking humanitarian aid trucks heading to Gaza, stomping on boxes of food at a checkpoint in the West Bank.
The U.N. has alerted of a looming famine in Gaza.
A fast exit for almost 200 Delta passengers using emergency slides to flee a fire on the tarmac at Seattle Airport. Officials say a spark ignited the fire in the plane's nose after connecting to ground power. Oof.
No injuries were recorded. I'm glad everyone's OK.
A body camera capturing a Florida sheriff's deputy who located a little girl on the beach.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm Jeff. Are you OK?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I need a hug.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You need a hug? All right. It's going to be OK. Let's go get you to Mama, all right?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[06:25:03]
HUNT: She was lost and looking for her parents, and the hug he gave her comforting as onlookers applauded the rescue. It's very nice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
(CHEERING)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: It's that time of year at the Naval Academy. The plebes scaling a 21-foot-tall, greased obelisk covered in 200 pounds of vegetable shortening to mark the end of their freshman year. It's known as the Herndon Climb. And it took them two hours and 19 minutes to reach the top and replace a Dixie cup hat with an upperclassman's hat.
All right. Coming up next here, Donald Trump's former fixer back on the stand today as the defense plots a new strategy.
And still ahead, one-on-one with Democratic Senator John Fetterman. We'll talk about his new mental health push.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:30:00]
