Return to Transcripts main page
CNN This Morning
Trump Attorneys Grill Cohen During Cross-Examination; GOP House Committees Vote To Hold Garland In Contempt; Menendez Trial Kicks Off With Defense Blaming His Wife. Aired 5:30-6a ET
Aired May 17, 2024 - 05:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[05:30:00]
KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: All right, just before 5:30 a.m. here on the East Coast, 2:30 out west. Here's a live look at Capitol Hill on this Friday morning. Good morning, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. Wonderful to have you with us.
A dramatic day in Donald Trump's criminal hush money trial that seemed to tilt in Trump's favor. Trump's legal team going after key witness Michael Cohen on Thursday over inconsistencies in his testimony. And Trump seemed quite pleased after that day in court.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I think it was a very interesting day. It was a fascinating day, and it shows what a scam this whole thing is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Earlier this week, Cohen testified about a 2016 phone call that he said was between himself and the former president, using Trump bodyguard Keith Schiller's phone. Cohen had said it was to "discuss the Stormy Daniels matter."
This became an essential piece of evidence in yesterday's cross- examination when Trump attorney Todd Blanche revealed text messages from minutes before that phone call took place. In those texts, Cohen complains about a teenager who has been prank calling him. Schiller responding, "Call me."
Trump's lawyers then pressed Cohen saying, "When you testified on Tuesday that you had specific recollection that you called Keith Schiller and he passed the phone to President Trump, you finalized the death with Stormy Daniels, and you said we're going to move forward. And he said yes because you kept him informed all the time. That was your testimony, right?" Cohen said, "That's correct."
Blanche then responded, "That was a lie. You were actually talking to Mr. Schiller about the fact that you were getting harassing phone calls from a 14-year-old, correct?" To which Cohen replied, "Part of it was the 14-year-old."
Joining me now, former federal prosecutor, Gene Rossi. Gene, good morning. Thank you so much for being here.
GENE ROSSI, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR, FORMER ASSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY, EASTERN DISTRICT OF VIRGINIA: Good morning. Thanks for having me.
HUNT: So how much does this matter?
ROSSI: I think it's a left hook to the jaw, but I don't think it's a knockout, and here's why. I represented Keith Davidson so I'm very familiar with the timeline.
HUNT: Yeah.
ROSSI: And on October 24, there was discussions between Keith Davidson and Michael Cohen that a deal may be imminent, but the deal wasn't closed. So going into this October 24 call around 8:00 p.m., I blame the prosecutors on this one.
They should have fronted -- they should have brought out in the direct exam hey, Michael -- Mr. Cohen, you have all these texts. When you were calling Schiller, trying to reach Trump, were you talking about just the kid who was harassing you or were you also throwing in the SD status? He could easily have said you know what, I remember calling him (Schiller) and I may have talked about the deal with Mr. Trump. That would have neutralized the cross. So I blame the prosecutors.
Why I only call it a left jab or a left hook is there are calls on October 26, 27, and 28 where you can tell that Cohen is calling Trump directly, maybe through Schiller, because that's when the deal was closed, that's when they had the documents signed, and that's when the money was going.
What I don't understand is the defense is trying to say that Trump didn't know about this at all. That dog's not going to hunt. A jury is going to believe that Cohen was keeping him apprised and a jury will believe that Trump knew that $130,000 of money was going to her.
So is it a knockout? No. Does it make Cohen look bad? Of course.
HUNT: Yeah.
ROSSI: But it's not the whole case. The case is still good.
HUNT: So how, if you are the -- I mean, first of all, how did the -- did the prosecutors just miss the existence of these text messages? Like --
ROSSI: Listen, I've been -- Kasie, I've been there where you're -- you have your witness like Cohen. I had a 100 Cohens, and the defense finds some innocuous document and they take a lemon and they make lemonades. And they do their dramatic raise your voice, walk around. So he did a great job making a relatively -- in my view, relatively minor point that did show he may be lying. But you got the calls later that override that.
I want to say this.
HUNT: Yeah.
ROSSI: In the four-hour cross --
HUNT: Um-hum.
ROSSI: -- there were several things that Todd Blanche -- where he stepped in you know what. One is when Cohen lied to Congress and said in June of 2017 that the Moscow deal was no big deal --
HUNT: Yeah.
ROSSI: -- he lied. Who told him to lie? Who gave him the talking points to lie? On cross it came out. It was Trump's legal adviser.
HUNT: Right.
ROSSI: So that's supporting perjury.
The second thing is it came out in cross that Melania really wasn't thought about by Trump. He didn't care about Karen McDougal. He thought it actually, in a sick way, would help him.
[05:35:02]
And the third thing is in cross, Blanche brought out that Trump reimbursed Cohen.
HUNT: Yeah.
ROSSI: When you pay for legal services that's not reimbursement.
HUNT: Right, right -- yeah.
ROSSI: Yeah.
HUNT: No. We've definitely dug into that.
So on --
ROSSI: Sure.
HUNT: -- the -- on re-examine or redirect, rather --
ROSSI: Right, yes.
HUNT: -- how do the prosecutors -- how should they try --
ROSSI: Yeah.
HUNT: -- to dispense with what we saw?
ROSSI: That is a fantastic point. Whenever I had a moment like that on cross, my redirect saved the day. So this break actually helps the prosecution more than the defense.
On redirect, I would go back to the October 24 call. I would put up those text messages and have Cohen look the jury in the eye and say you know what, I did talk about that, but I also talked about the deal that may be coming. So I forgot to mention that, and I apologize. Just have him own it.
And also, I would go back to his statement before Congress and reaffirm that Trump's legal advisers told him to lie to Congress. That's devastating -- I'm sorry. That really makes Trump look bad.
HUNT: Interesting.
All right.
ROSSI: Yeah.
HUNT: Gene Rossi for us this morning. Gene, thank you. I really appreciate it.
ROSSI: Hey, thank you. Thank you.
HUNT: All right.
A pair of Republican-led House committees voting yesterday to move forward with contempt proceedings against Attorney General Merrick Garland after he refused to turn over audio recordings of President Biden's interview with special counsel Robert Hur. That is the DOJ interview that led to Hur's report that states the president retained a number of classified documents because he was "a well-meaning, elderly man with a poor memory."
The president claimed executive privilege over those tapes. And news outlets, including CNN, are suing the Department of Justice for their release.
In the hours before the committee moved forward with those contempt proceedings, we heard from Merrick Garland himself in a pretty unusual moment for someone who doesn't speak out this way very often -- watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MERRICK GARLAND, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: There have been a series of unprecedented and, frankly, unfounded attacks on the Justice Department. This request -- this effort to use contempt as a -- as a method of obtaining our sensitive law enforcement files is just the most recent. The effort to threaten to defund our investigations and the way in which there are contributions to an atmosphere that puts our agents and our prosecutors at risk -- these are wrong.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Joining me now to discuss is Grace Panetta. She's political reporter for The 19th. Grace, good morning. Wonderful to see you.
Let's dig into this hearing around -- or first, the big picture question, then we're going to show you a little bit of what actually happened at the hearing. It's a little juicier than what this might suggest.
This about tapes -- audio recordings that Republicans want of President Biden talking about his classified documents case. They argue it's transparency. And as we noted, news organizations want to hear them as well. However, it's clear that White House -- the Biden campaign believes that these would be weaponized for political purposes, and that's the point of getting them out there.
Where does this contempt go next, and what more is behind it?
GRACE PANETTA, POLITICAL REPORTER, THE 19TH NEWS: Absolutely. Great to be with you, Kasie.
I think the contempt motion -- you know, it's unclear how far it's going to go -- if it will even make it to the House floor. Republicans have a very narrow majority, and that vote could put a lot of swing district Republicans in a tough spot. And, of course, the Department of Justice is not going to prosecute the attorney general.
So this is really about the politics of it, and it's about House Republicans' broader effort to make the Biden administration look shady and potentially corrupt while also making Biden look weak and in decline. The House Oversight chairman James Comer said as much. They said the White House doesn't want this tape released because it would show that Biden is in "mental decline," which is really a statement more about, really, I think the campaign than the heart of their investigation.
So it's really more of a political gambit at this point, I think.
HUNT: Yeah. I mean this is, of course, the central theme that Republicans want to use against President Biden in the election -- one that, know, they -- that our polls show voters are focused on for sure.
So let's watch a little bit of what actually played out at this contempt hearing because let's just say it kind of showed the level of contempt that some of these members of the House have for each other. Why don't we start with -- hmm, which one should I pick? Let's start with AOC and Marjorie Taylor Greene. And it starts with Jasmine Crockett. It's a dispute over fake eyelashes -- watch.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Do you know what we're here for? You know we're here for the AG.
REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): Out of order.
REP. JASMINE CROCKETT (D-TX): Well, you the one talking about -- I guess she feels like --
GREENE: I think your fake eyelashes are messing up what you're reading.
CROCKETT: No. Ain't nothing -- COMER: Hold on! Hold on! Order.
[05:40:00]
REP. ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ (D-NY): Mr. -- I do have a point of order and I would like to move to take down Ms. Greene's words. That is absolutely unacceptable. How dare you attack the physical appearance of another person?
COMER: Lady will suspend. Lady will suspend.
GREENE: Are your feelings hurt?
OCASIO-CORTEZ: Move her words down.
GREENE: Ahh.
OCASIO-CORTEZ: Oh, girl -- baby girl.
GREENE: Oh, really?
OCASIO-CORTEZ: Don't even play.
GREENE: Baby girl? I don't --
OCASIO-CORTEZ: We are going to move and we're going to take your words down.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: I don't even know what to say. I don't know what to say except that Jasmine Crockett, whose eyelashes were the ones that were attacked originally by Marjorie Taylor Greene, then went on to attack Marjorie Taylor Greene. Watch this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CROCKETT: I'm just curious. Just to better understand your ruling, if someone on this committee then starts talking about somebody's bleach- blonde, bad-build butch body, that would not be engaging in personalities, correct?
COMER: A what, now?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: A what, now? A what, now, indeed.
PANETTA: My reaction, too.
HUNT: Look, I mean -- OK, so funny, right, but also serious that Congress has devolved --
PANETTA: Yeah.
HUNT: -- to this point. What does this say about where the place is? PANETTA: Yeah. I mean, that markup was just remarkable -- equal parts. Disputes over parliamentary procedure and personal insults.
But the broader thing that it showed is that Chairman Comer really does not have control over his committee. He was unable -- he was kind of like the disappointed parent saying I will turn this car around. And he's unable to gain control over his own markup and that really casts doubt on his ability to advance these kind of contempt motions, for example, against Attorney General Garland and to really make this broader case he is trying to make about the White House and the Biden administration.
HUNT: Yeah. Let's -- Comer did try to defend himself, which -- I mean, clearly, he felt he needed to after all of this. Watch what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
COMER: I don't know if you noticed that I have two hearing aids. I'm very deaf. I'm not understanding. Everybody's yelling. I'm doing the best I can.
Can we not recognize Ms. Greene and let her get --
OCASIO-CORTEZ: We cannot because of the rules of the committee, Mr. Chair.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: OK. So basically, he's saying I couldn't hear it. I couldn't hear it, sorry.
Grace Panetta, thank you very much for being here. I really appreciate your time this morning.
PANETTA: Thank you for having me.
HUNT: All right. Still ahead here, Sen. Bob Menendez's legal team blaming his wife for his corruption charges.
Plus, Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito under scrutiny for reportedly flying and American flag upside-down. It was previously a signal of dire distress; now it's become symbol of the Stop the Steal movement. This was flying at his home just days before Joe Biden's inauguration.
(COMMERCIAL)
[05:46:50]
HUNT: Gold bars, envelopes of cash, a luxury vehicle -- all things prosecutors allege Sen. Bob Menendez received in exchange for favors. But as his trial kicks off, his defense says Menendez was merely unaware and lovestruck, and they're placing the blame on his wife, Nadine. According to the senator's lawyer, "She kept things from him." And "kept him in the dark." Nadine Menendez is also on trial but separately from her husband and
the other defendants. We now know that the trials are being held separately, at least in part because she's undergoing treatment for breast cancer.
Joining me now, criminal defense attorney Lexie Rigdon. Lexie, good morning to you.
What is up with this legal strategy?
LEXIE RIGDON, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY (via Skype): Well, chivalry is dead. He's blaming his wife. He's basically saying it was her. She had these longstanding relationships with the co-defendants. She knew them predating her marriage to him and that anything that she did he didn't know about. He was just the -- you know, the innocent husband in the dark.
And there's going to be an issue here with whether he was willfully ignorant as to what she was doing. Because there's a difference between not knowing and choosing not to know and sort of keeping yourself in the dark, which he can't do in terms of escaping consequences in his prosecution.
HUNT: Yeah. I mean -- and I think we should also note that this is not the first time Menendez has faced questions about his conduct. He has not been -- in the past, he's basically gotten off.
RIGDON: Yeah.
HUNT: But this is a recent - a more recent marriage.
How does something like this -- how does a strategy like this play with a jury? Do they kind of take into account the sort of -- the -- you called it chivalry. Like, how -- are they not going to, like, ding him for that?
RIGDON: Well, you know, I think he's playing the only card that he has. He needs to distance himself from all of the things found in his house. I mean, this is hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash that was found both in his personal items in the house and also in her closet -- the gold bars. And so, this is like the best shot that he has.
Also, he was very careful to not necessarily talk to these co- defendants directly. He usually went through his wife, and that's what the prosecution wants everyone to believe. Obviously, that's the allegation is that he used his wife as a conduit. So he's playing the card that he has here, which is to essentially blame her.
Now, I find the revelation of her health issues to be kind of curious because you would think that would actually garner some sympathy. I mean, hopefully, nobody wants these jurors to necessarily hear that but -- because they need to stay impartial. But you would think that revelation, which wasn't necessarily needed to have been made, would actually garner some sympathy with the jurors with regard to her status. But again, I think that this is his best play in addition to the
arguments that are being made by all of these co-defendants, saying this wasn't a crime. It's not a crime to have friends. It's not a crime for friends to give you gifts. I wish I had friends that would give me gifts that were anywhere close to that. Unfortunately, I don't. But it's going to be up to the jury to decide whether those gifts were actually bribes or not.
[05:50:06]
And it's going to -- I think it's pretty hard to justify having hundreds of thousands of dollars in your house. I mean, that's just not -- that's not typical for normal people.
And there was actually an expert who was going to testify. The defense wanted this psychiatrist to testify about his childhood trauma growing up in Cuba, which is why he was hoarding large amounts of cash in his home, but that expert was barred. So the jury is not going to be able to hear that justification for why there was so much cash in the home.
HUNT: Yeah, I was going to ask you about that, actually. Is that a typical type of thing to ask for something like that? It sounded -- I -- it sounded unusual to me.
RIGDON: Well, he has money to obviously throw at this -- hopefully, not the money -- not the money that was confiscated but he's got money to throw at the best defense that he can get. I mean, he is a skilled lawyer who has a lot of experience. And so, if you have a litigation budget in order to present whatever evidence and testimony that you can, then his lawyers were smart to try to get an expert to try to explain this type of conduct.
I mean, a lot of people -- they don't have a litigation budget to hire experts and everything along those lines. But if you do, it was a smart move to try to contextualize why he had so much money. Because this is just not -- this is not typical. I mean, this is certainly not typical of people in the United States. We have a pretty good banking system. I mean, this isn't Cuba.
So anything to contextualize why he had literally -- I think it was over $500,000 in cash in the home. And so the fact that the defense can't present that I think is a blow to his case.
HUNT: Yeah. I mean, how many mattresses does it take to hide $500,000 dollars?
RIGDON: Exactly. And, I mean, they were hidden in -- hidden in his clothes, in jacket pockets. I mean, his boot, in his wife's garage -- or not garage, in her closet. So there was money everywhere in this house.
HUNT: Yeah.
All right, Lexie Rigdon for us this morning. Lexie, very grateful for your time. Thanks very much for being here.
RIGDON: Thank you.
HUNT: All right, time now for sports. The Timberwolves blow out the defending NBA champion Nuggets to force a winner-take-all game seven.
Carolyn Manno has this morning's Bleacher Report. Carolyn, good morning.
CAROLYN MANNO, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Kasie.
Well, this series has been a rollercoaster all the way so it's only fitting that this one will go the distance. But nobody expected just how last night's game six was going to play out. After looking outmatched for the past three games, Minnesota roaring back to life. They led by 17 at the end of the first quarter and never looked back in this game, going on to win 115-70. The 45-point win, the second largest by any facing elimination in league history.
Denver shot an abysmal 30 percent from the floor. They became the first team to score 70 or fewer points in the playoffs since the Grizzlies back in 2016.
And Anthony Edwards has been such a superstar. He had a game-high 27 points, flashing seven fingers to the roaring crowd as he walked off for a fourth quarter time out.
Game seven set for Sunday in Denver.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: Did you really tell the locker room staffer in Denver you were going to back for game seven?
ANTHONY EDWARDS, GUARD, MINNESOTAT TIMBERWOLVES: Hell, yeah. They know. You all was in there. Yeah, I told them. I said I'll see you all (blee) game seven.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MANNO: In the Stanley Cup Playoffs, the Rangers looked like they were headed to a game seven against the Carolina Hurricanes. New York down by two goals heading into the final period, then Chris Kreider singlehandedly flipping the script. He scored three goals capping off the natural hat trick for the eventual winner with 4:19 left in the game. So he joins Wayne Gretzky and Mark Messier as the only Rangers to notch three goals in a period during a playoff game.
New York winning 5-3, punching their ticket to the Eastern Conference Finals.
And check out this great moment after the game, too. Kreider skating off the ice, handing his stick to a young fan before heading to the dressing room. How sweet is that?
Meantime, the Canucks had the Oilers on the brink of elimination in their all-Canadian series. With the game tied at two, Vancouver's J.T. Miller finding the back of the net with just 33 seconds remaining. The Canucks win it 3-2. They take a 3-2 series lead as well. Game six scheduled for tomorrow night at Edmonton in that series.
And a sold-out crowd on hand at the Indiana Fever's home opener for Caitlin Clark. She's still getting adjusted to life as a WNBA rookie. The number one pick in the draft managing nine points, seven rebounds, and six assists in a lopsided 102-66 loss to the New York Liberty.
The league's reigning MVP Breanna Stewart, though, putting on a show. She is a wily veteran in the league -- 31 points, 10 rebounds, four assists, and three steals for her.
But for Caitlin Clark, her ability to balance scoring and playmaking still a work in progress here as she continues to get more exposure to the pro game.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIE SIDES, HEAD COACH, INDIANA FEVER: I mean, it's a process and she's -- you know, she's going to be fine. She's figuring it out. She just needs to get a little bit of confidence right now. I think she's taking some shots that she normally would knock down. You know, they're making it really hard on her. We've got to do a better job of finding ways to get her some easier -- more open looks.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[05:55:04]
MANNO: And lastly for you this morning, golfer Xander Schauffele had a round for the record books at the PGA Championship in Louisville yesterday. The world number three made nine birdies and zero bogies enroute to a 62. That ties the single-round scoring record at a men's major championship, and it comes almost 11 months to the day after he and Rickie Fowler broke the U.S. Open record with opening round 62s.
And if you take a look at the leaderboard, Schaufelle's incredible round, seeing him hold a three-stroke edge over the rest of the field. A total of 64 players breaking par on Thursday. That's the most ever in the opening round of the PGA Championship.
Unfortunately, Tiger Woods not one of them, Kasie. The 15-time Major champ could only manage a one over 72 in the first round, leaving him 10 strokes behind the leader. This was his 10th straight round of even par or worse at a Major dating back to the 2022 PGA. But he doesn't play a lot of rounds of competitive golf anymore.
He actually looked good, Kasie, through the first 16 holes, but he three-putted the last two holes. And he said listen, they're just not the same as when I play my flat course in Florida. So getting a little bit stronger but unfortunately, looking tough for the weekend.
HUNT: Yeah, that's rough, but glad to see him at least getting out there and, as you say, getting better every day.
Thanks, Carolyn.
Coming up next here, did Michael Cohen's testimony actually help Trump's case? Plus, multiple people are dead after severe storms tear through Houston.
