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CNN This Morning
Second Provocative Flag Seen Flying Outside Alito Home; Trump Rises Slightly in Nationwide Polls. Aired 6-6:30a ET
Aired May 23, 2024 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: It's Thursday, May 23. Right now on CNN THIS MORNING, another controversial flag seen flying outside of a home owned by Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito.
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Plus --
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(CRASHING SOUNDS)
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HUNT: Yikes. A strong gust of wind causes a stage to collapse in Mexico. The death poll now rising.
And --
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NIKKI HALEY (R), FORMER PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I will be voting for Trump.
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HUNT: She said America wouldn't survive four more years of Trump. Now, Nikki Haley is voting for him.
And --
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TAYLOR SWIFT, SINGER: Welcome to the Eras Tour.
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HUNT: It started with a Taylor Swift ticket debacle. Now, the Justice Department is suing the owner of Ticketmaster.
And the Mooch, Anthony Scaramucci, joins us. He wants to be your life coach.
Six a.m. here in Washington. Here's a live look at Capitol Hill on this Thursday morning. Good morning, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. It's wonderful to be with you.
Another provocative, controversial flag seen flying outside a home owned by Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito. "The New York Times" publishing this photo of the flag outside Alito's New Jersey beach home last summer. The flag, which features a pine tree and the phrase, "Appeal to heaven," dates back to the Revolutionary War. But today, as "The Times" wrote, the flag has become, quote, "a symbol of support for former President Donald J. Trump for a religious strand of the Stop the Steal campaign, and for a push to remake American government in Christian terms."
This is video from the January 6 riot. On the right of the screen amid the mob forcing its way into the Capitol to try to prevent the peaceful transfer of power, you see the same pine tree flag flying.
Just last week, "The Times" published a photo of an upside-down American flag outside Alito's Virginia home. That is another symbol of the Stop the Steal pro-Trump movement.
Justice Alito has not commented publicly on the pine tree flag. He did release a statement last week about the upside-down flag. He claimed his wife flew it after a fight with neighbors.
John Bolton, the former Trump national security adviser, talking to my colleague Wolf Blitzer last night about the pine tree flag and saying it's not a big deal.
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JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISOR: I think it is outrageous -- outrageous and unacceptable -- for people to take a flag from the American Revolution and say that, because some January 6 protesters flew it, that it's now unacceptable to fly that flag. And I'd like to hear a Democratic Party politician say that expressly.
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HUNT: All right. Our panel is here: CNN legal analyst, former federal prosecutor Elliot Williams; Scott Jennings, former special assistant to President George W. Bush; and CNN senior political analyst Mark Preston.
Elliott. I want to start with you. I want -- we'll get to the politics in a second in terms of why John Bolton wants to see a Democratic politician --
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Sure.
HUNT: -- saying this kind of thing.
But the issue is -- is that Justice Samuel Alito isn't accountable to anybody. He's a Supreme Court justice who is supposed to be impartial in the face of the law.
What are -- to the extent there are rules about this kind of thing, I mean, what is he supposed to be doing? What kind of signal does it send? And -- and do you view this -- I mean, do you view these two things also, I would say as equally problematic. The upside-down American flag and this pine tree flag?
WILLIAMS: You say something really important and to the extent there are rules, because the rules governing the Supreme Court have no teeth. Last year, 2023, the Supreme Court put out a code of conduct, but there's no enforcement mechanism. There's no way the public can sort of bring a suit or raise a claim against the justice, like you can against a lower-court justice, a lower court judge.
And the language right here is a justice should disqualify himself or herself in a proceeding in which the justice's impartiality might reasonably be questioned.
Now, this has nothing to do with the specifics of the flag. And I think I will agree with my friend Scott eventually here about a flag from the American Revolution. OK, that's a great thing.
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But right now, it has political significance. You can't deny that there's a meaning assigned to that flag. And -- hold on. And at the time that this was flying over the justice's House, the court was considering whether to take on January 6 cases.
Now whether you like the flag or not, the question is, might the justice's impartiality reasonably be questioned, leading to recusal? And of course, it does. Just look at the symbol.
HUNT: I mean, my -- my honest -- my honest question looking at that, if -- can we put those flags back up, the Alito flags, the three of them? Like isn't the American flag supposed to be flying at the top there, flagpole? I mean --
WILLIAMS: Well -- well --
HUNT: Like, isn't that traditionally what -- where you would put it, right?
SCOTT JENNINGS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: They were flying American flags January 6. I mean, I -- look, the word "reasonably" --
WILLIAMS: Yes.
JENNINGS: -- is doing a lot of work here. In my opinion, no reasonable person would conclude that Sam Alito is somehow compromised because he's flying a flag that was commissioned by George Washington himself.
Ninety-eight percent of people who were outraged about this today didn't even know it existed --
WILLIAMS: Sure, sure.
JENNINGS: -- 12 hours ago.
WILLIAMS: Let me -- here's another example for you. Imagine another one of the justices -- we'll just say Elena Kagan -- flies a flag right now in the midst of campus protests and all that's going on in the Middle East with a slice of watermelon on it, right?
Now, you're looking puzzled, because you're like, well, why does that matter? It's a delicious fruit. It's got lycopene in it. Who cares?
It's also a sign of the Palestinian resistance.
JENNINGS: Oh.
WILLIAMS: Now we might think that -- but Scott --
JENNINGS: I think -- I actually think if Alito wanted to be popular with "The New York Times," he would fly that. He'd fly Hezbollah flags. He'd fly Hamas flags.
WILLIAMS: And -- and -- and --
JENNINGS: I mean, this is crazy. It's crazy.
WILLIAMS: in any of those instances, if the -- if the court -- look at the rules. If the court has business involving national security or Hezbollah or Palestinian, he [SIC] should recuse from those cases, too.
So I think we're in agreement here that --
JENNINGS: No, we're not.
WILLIAMS: We are. We are, because --
HUNT: So you'd be cool with it? You'd be cool with the justice --
JENNINGS: I don't care about the landscaping choices of Sam Alito. I don't -- I don't. And I think this is part of a years-long effort to delegitimize this branch of government.
WILLIAMS: Well, they did that to themselves.
JENNINGS: And what, to me, the big story is one political party --
WILLIAMS: Yes.
JENNINGS: -- has been conditioned to believe that, because Trump was illegitimate, the Supreme Court is illegitimate, because he put three people on it. And everything that flows from it is illegitimate.
And there is a concerted campaign to delegitimize all these people. And it has -- it has come now down to critiquing the choices of decor.
MARK PRESTON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: It's not just -- it's not --
WILLIAMS: It's not -- OK. Here's another example. I care deeply about the Boy Scouts of America, as you know. I know your boys are Cub Scouts, too. If I carve the Scout fleur-de-lis in my lawn, fine. If I'm a Supreme
Court justice, and the Boy Scouts have litigation in front of me, that is a sign of bias under the Supreme Court's rules.
And so it -- you know, we're -- I think we're conflating a bunch of things. It's the left versus the right and what Democrats say about the Supreme Court and what the rules that he signed last year governing his own conduct say.
And plainly, that -- it's a political symbol, even if it's that has --
JENNINGS: Says who?
WILLIAMS: Scott, there's people flaying it as a --
JENNINGS: Says who? That's the question.
HUNT: An upside-down American flag?
JENNINGS: No, I'm talking about the pine tree flag.
WILLIAMS: Either of them, though.
JENNINGS: Which no one -- which is not a popularly known symbol. But you're ascribing a meaning to it.
HUNT: It does have --
JENNINGS: Look, by the way, I worked on Alito's confirmation. I'm the only person here that did it. I know him a little.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
JENNINGS: I -- there is no conceivable way, in my opinion, that he's flying a flag to give anyone a reasonable idea that he is about to tip his hand on a case.
PRESTON: OK -- OK.
HUNT: But it does underscore his position in our political system. He is using that symbol to align himself with other people who fly -- who also present the symbol. And what I think Elliot is saying is that that's not right for a justice to do, regardless.
WILLIAMS: OK. I'll keep putting these out there. Scott, a Black Lives Matter flag, the justice flies it over their home. Is that -- and there are racial justice or police brutality issues coming before the court. Is that not a sign of bias or -- I mean -- it's a non-profit organization?
JENNINGS: But that -- but that -- but that flag has been created in -- in the moment to make a political statement.
WILLIAMS: Kind of like flying flags on January 6th.
JENNINGS: No. The flag -- the flag that you're criticizing was created by George Washington to flow over frigates in the Revolutionary War. You can't see the difference in that?
WILLIAMS: Scott, I --
JENNINGS: Unbelievable.
WILLIAMS: No, it's not unbelievable. I'm saying it's -- this is -- these are all --
JENNINGS: Unreasonable.
WILLIAMS: All of the examples I gave --
JENNINGS: Your old boss went before the Supreme Court and said they would reap the whirlwind if they don't start acting right.
WILLIAMS: All of these --
JENNINGS: I understand how you all view it. I just --
WILLIAMS: Whoa, whoa, whoa. There's no "you all" here.
JENNINGS: I'm not going to view this as a reasonable argument.
HUNT: Yes, let's be --
WILLIAMS: I'm just literally reading the rules that these folks wrote and giving you examples of things that, like the American Revolutionary flag --
JENNINGS: But you're equating George Washington's flag with the BLM flag?
WILLIAMS: I'm -- I'm equating flags that have --
HUNT: He's giving you different examples.
JENNINGS: But they don't match, is my point.
WILLIAMS: But they do. But they -- I mean, they literally do. They are all things that don't themselves have -- look, the Boy Scouts of America logo was --
[06:10:06]
JENNINGS: Also not a political symbol.
WILLIAMS: It is if they've got -- Scott --
JENNINGS: By the way, they don't even call it the "Boy Scouts" anymore.
WILLIAMS: It's not a question of the political symbol. It's the question of matters that could come before the Supreme Court. They were weighing issues related to that very protest that people were talking about here.
HUNT: And they still are. They still are.
WILLIAMS: And the justices, necessarily --
HUNT: I mean, that's the thing, right? Like, they still are. They have before them this massive question of immunity right now. It all relates to the flying of this.
And I mean, why shouldn't -- why does he need to fly it, right? Like, couldn't you look at it that way, like --
JENNINGS: I mean this. How about this, right? Why do to fly it? I mean, he -- does this man not live under the same First Amendment as the rest of us?
WILLIAMS: He does, but he also is on the Supreme Court. A justice of the Supreme court.
HUNT: But he's a Supreme Court justice!
JENNINGS: So?
PRESTON: So -- so --
HUNT: He's a Supreme Court Justice. Mark, go ahead.
PRESTON: Let me put in a couple of things in perspective.
I actually live near the justice; knew nothing about this flag. OK?
JENNINGS: Right.
PRESTON: A year ago. In fact the neighborhood didn't necessarily know about the flag. So somebody clearly --
HUNT: Are you're talking about the one in Virginia?
PRESTON: The one in Virginia, yes. Yes.
HUNT: The one -- OK. So this is the upside-down American flag.
PRESTON: Which -- which Scott, by the way, happens to be on George Washington's farm. George Washington used to -- used to own that land there.
OK. Here's the issue in Washington, D.C. There are many couples in Washington, D.C., who have conflicted relationships in the sense the husband or the wife works for something, works for somebody where there could be a conflict where their spouse works, OK?
So that happens all the time.
HUNT: James Carville and Mary Matalin were married to each other. I don't know if that follows it, but anyway.
PRESTON: Well, right. But -- no, look, the reality is he should -- should he have flown the flag? No, Scott, he shouldn't have flown the flag. Should he be allowed to fly the flag? Like there's nothing stopping him from doing it.
But he's a Supreme Court justice. He answers to no one. Why would you want to put the flag up there? I mean, that's it.
I agree with you that it's an issue that is blowing up, and -- and it's going to be made of something maybe making something out of nothing, basically.
But the reality is, he shouldn't have done it anyway, because this is what is going to happen.
HUNT: All right. I've got to wrap this up, Scott. I just want to just nail down something. You do see a distinction between the upside-down American flag and this George Washington flag?
JENNINGS: No, I don't --
HUNT: You do not?
JENNINGS: I don't personally believe that the flag choices at Alito's House have anything to do with his impartiality or ability to render his duties as a Supreme Court justice.
HUNT: And so you're cool with him flying an upside-down American flag? Because I mean, even Lindsay Graham looked at that and said, like, Come on, you're a Supreme Court justice.
JENNINGS: I don't care. And I think his -- and I have no reason to disbelieve his explanation. Everybody seems to think he's lying about his explanation. Do I have -- do I believe that his wife had a dispute with a neighbor? Yes. I think he's an honest person. And if that's what he says happened, I believe him.
HUNT: Look, if he's blaming his wife, and it's not true, I mean, I'd like to see what that dinner table conversation is like. But OK.
All right. On that note, we're going to move on next to this. Tornadoes tear through the Midwest. The threat there is not over yet. We'll show you what's up.
Plus brand-new polling on the Biden-Trump race and the impact of a third-party candidate.
Plus, the Mooch is here. He lasted a week and a half in the White House. Now he wants to be your life coach.
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HUNT: Welcome back. Another 2024 presidential poll revealing the race is too close to call.
Former president -- former -- President Biden, and former President Trump separated by a single percentage point -- of course, well within the margin of error -- in this new polling from Quinnipiac University. But one thing we did notice is that it looks different from this Q
Poll back in January, which had Biden at 50 and Trump at 44 percent. And you can see that Donald Trump's support does seem to be growing here in this particular survey.
Panel is back. Mark Preston, I wanted that graph because I don't like to put too much stock in any single poll. But when you kind of map it out, you can see some of the changes here.
We've seen this reporting that President Biden doesn't believe the polls, and that's why they want to just stay the course here. But when you look at this, it just seems to me hard to deny that in the last few months -- And let's remember, you know, this polling did come out as the country's been absorbing the Trump trial. This latest Q Poll is there.
What do you make of this? And how concerned do you think the Biden team should be?
PRESTON: Well, two things. One, I think -- I think that the country is obviously divided and almost evenly divided at this point. And I do wonder if this Manhattan court case has caused exhaustion for voters. And they're looking in. And at some point, Donald Trump coming out every day and -- and talking about how he has been a victim and having the speaker of the House come up and speak on his behalf. I do wonder if that is -- is hurting the Biden campaign a little bit. I really do.
HUNT: Scott.
JENNINGS: It's a close race. I don't know who's going to win. I don't have a strong feeling.
HUNT: None of us do. I -- let's --
JENNINGS: Some days I wake up feeling one, and some days I wake up feeling the other. I do think this: that a tied -- effectively a tied race nationally probably means Donald Trump wins the Electoral College. Just as what happened in 2016.
I mean, I know some Democrat operatives who believe Biden's got to win the national popular vote by a couple or three points in order to be assured of a -- of an Electoral College victory.
HUNT: Yes.
JENNINGS: So if I were Biden now, I'd be very worried about that.
HUNT: Yes. And again, I mean, to your point, it's the swing states, right, that really matter. The most recent swing-state polling we have, Elliot, looked at. It was from "The New York Times"/Siena poll, and it came out a couple of weeks ago.
One thing that I was really interested in in that was actually the disparity between the Biden-Trump number and some of these Senate races. Because the Biden-Trump number was really close. The Senate wasn't. Look at the Pennsylvania numbers. It had Biden up at 44 and Trump at
47. So Biden's trailing, in this poll, Trump.
But then look at that. That's Bob Casey and Dave McCormick. Bob Casey, the Democratic incumbent, sitting at 46, right? He's running well ahead of Trump [SIC].
Now let's look at Arizona. Same thing: Biden 42 in Arizona, Trump 49. Ruben Gallego, the Democrat, 45; Kari Lake, 41.
The difference almost. That's important is not even, you know, the Gallego versus Lake difference. It's that you're seeing Gallego run ahead of Biden here.
Usually -- I mean, oftentimes, the trend -- that's not the trend. The trend can be reversed.
Why do you think that is? I mean, "The Times" said it was actually Gen Z and voters of color.
WILLIAMS: That's a big part of it. Also, I was wondering, at least in the Casey race, if name recognition as part of it. And if voters simply are not aware --
HUNT: Yes.
WILLIAMS: -- of who David McCormick is yet.
Now, the Arizona numbers throw that off a little bit, because Kari Lake has been a statewide figure for quite some time.
HUNT: We saw -- we also saw this in Nevada, too, I will say, and there was another race, as well.
JENNINGS: The Lake vote -- the Lake result, if I were -- that's -- they know her. She's sitting --
WILLIAMS: They know her.
JENNINGS: They know her, and she's sitting that low. I mean, I think you're right on some of the other races that name I.D. could be an issue. Campaigns haven't really started yet. But for Lake that was pretty troubling for her.
HUNT: Yes. All right.
Ahead here, Florida Senator Rick Scott, the latest Senate Republican trying to succeed Mitch McConnell.
Plus, a deadly stage collapse at a campaign event in Mexico. It's one of our five things you've got to see this morning.
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HUNT: All right, 25 minutes past the hour. Five things you have to see this morning.
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Yikes. A Mexican presidential candidate briefly hospitalized after a deadly stage collapse at a campaign event. Nine people were killed and at least 15 others injured when a powerful wind gust brought the stage down.
A tornado touched down just South of Waco, Texas, causing widespread damage and leaving roads impassable. This video, taken outside a shopping mall, shows the aftermath.
No fatalities were reported.
Stunning video of a Russian drone dropping explosives on a police car that was on its way to evacuate civilians in Ukraine's Kharkiv region. Ukraine has been evacuating civilians from the border areas since Russia launched an offensive two weeks ago.
And --
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HUNT: -- a Florida sheriff's deputy shattering a car window in a Walmart parking lot.
This is actually a good story. He was saving a toddler from intense heat. The mother had told the officer that she accidentally locked the child and her keys inside the vehicle in 80-degree heat. And we're grateful to report the child is OK.
A vigilant homeowner and a quick police response foils two burglars caught on tape, trying to break into a Brookline, Massachusetts, home. One suspect literally slips right into the officer's grip. God.
The second was arrested moments later.
All right. Coming up next, she said America can't survive four more years of Trump. So why is Nikki Haley voting for him?
Plus, imagine your own car honking at you for speeding. Where that could become law. We're going to need to talk about this.
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