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Sen. Markwayne Mullin (R-OK) is Interviewed about the Trump Verdict; Gov. Doug Bergum is Interviewed about the Trump Verdict; Trump Found Guilty on all Counts. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired May 31, 2024 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

ADAM KINZINGER, AUTHOR, "RENEGADE": And this is ultimately a way to do it.

Let's keep in mind, I think it was George Conway earlier saying -

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: Sure.

KINZINGER: Like, this is the party that was chanting "lock her up" about Hillary Clinton for doing, by the way, probably less - significantly less, for being accused of doing even significantly less than what Donald Trump is being accused of at Mar-a-Lago. This is the party that is cheering on the prosecution of Hunter Biden. Agree or disagree with the prosecution of Hunter Biden, the fact is, they are weaponizing the DOJ or weaponizing the justice in this situation and they're using every answer, every chance they can, to talk about the legal system as it relates to Hunter Biden, to go after Joe Biden.

HUNT: Sure.

KINZINGER: So, they're like - the - the -

HUNT: So -

KINZINGER: Yes, the darkness of this is just wrong.

HUNT: Y Es. I think that was our Kate Bedingfield who brought up Hillary Clinton. Thank you for watching earlier on in the hour.

KINZINGER: Yes.

HUNT: Adam Kinzinger, Congressman, I'm very grateful to have you and your perspective. Thank you very much for joining us this morning.

KINZINGER: You bet. See ya. Yes.

HUNT: All right, coming up next, North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum, a potential Trump vice presidential pick, here to talk about this guilty verdict.

Plus, Republican Senator Markwayne Mullin joins us live coming up next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HUNT: All right, welcome back to CNN THIS MORNING.

We're joined now by Oklahoma Republican Senator Markwayne Mullin, who joins us. He was one of the first Republican senators to endorse Donald Trump in the GOP primary.

I also want to note, sir, you recently traveled to the Turks and Caicos. You've been working to get Americans detained on those islands back home. And I do want to make sure that we touch on that in our interview. But let's start with the news.

We had these 12 jurors who, you know, they're normal people, New Yorkers. They seem to take their job very seriously. They found the president guilty. Do you question their motivations?

SEN. MARKWAYNE MULLIN (R-OK): No, I don't question their motivation. They were there to do the job. I do question Alvin Bragg's (ph) motivation. I do question the fact that could Trump actually get a fair trial there in New York, where you're supposed to be, you know, obviously, your peers are supposed to be the one that's judging you, when you understand, this is political moving forward, but the jury did their job.

Look, this case is going to be appealed. You know it's going to be appealed. And most people will say that this is going to be overturned. And it will be eventually.

Look, this was misdemeanors eight years ago. The only reason why this was even brought up to criminal cases in the - in the first case is because Alvin (ph) Bragg, he literally ran on prosecuting Trump. So, this doesn't surprise anybody, and it doesn't change the outcome. In fact, it just really reinvigorates (ph) the base and says, if you're going to attack our guy, we're just going to stand with him stronger.

[06:35:02]

HUNT: Do you see any - I mean do you have any concerns about the potential damage to the system overall in telling Americans, hey, you can't trust a justice system?

MULLIN: You'll have to repeat that. I'm sorry, we lost connection there for just a second.

HUNT: No problem at all.

Do you think there's any danger in saying to Americans, hey, you can't trust your justice system?

MULLIN: I didn't - I didn't say that. I do think that it - it sets a - it sets a dangerous -

HUNT: No, but, I'm sorry, I don't want to put words in your mouth. President Trump has been saying that. MULLIN: Yes. What I - I think this is - this does damage to the judicial system in the simple fact that it's been weaponized. You've had a judicial system that went after a political opponent and you have a - a district attorney that literally ran on convicting Donald Trump. That's a problem. When you have a - when you have a district attorney that can have this much leeway, when you have attorney generals that are - that are - that are in a liberal state or a district attorney in a liberal city that can - can - sorry, I lost - I'm losing connection again. But you have - have them that they can go after a political opponent, that's a huge problem. And that's what needs to be looked at.

Our judicial system is still something that the rest of the world looks into and we can't weaponize it to go after political opponents, like - like is what happened yesterday when - and, actually, over the last year.

HUNT: There have been some local - state and local officials and elected folks who have argued that now state attorney generals, particularly in red states, should look at Democrats more closely. Do you agree with those types of calls?

MULLIN: No, I don't, because at some point this has to stop. If we were going to do that, we could have done that with the Clintons, but we chose not to. I believe we need allow the political system to work out the way that the political system should. And - and the judicial system should stay out of the way. Just like we tried to stay out of getting involved in the judicial branch and the judicial branch should stay out of the political system as well.

HUNT: Senator, let me ask you about the work that you've been doing in Turks and Caicos because a number of Americans who, for the most part, have accidentally included ammunition in their luggage, have run afoul of a new law there aimed at reducing gun crimes and trafficking. But it potentially puts them in prison for up to 12 years is my understanding. What did you see on the ground there and what are your hopes to try to make - to help the Americans who are stuck in this predicament?

MULLIN: You know, we've been working on this for a couple months. We didn't go public with it until we got back from Turks and Caicos. And the Turks and Caicos is doing what they can to - to curb gang violence that's been flowing over from Jamaica and Haiti. I understand what they're trying to do.

What happened here is that you had several Americans that had no weapon with them. They had a bag that had loose rounds of ammunition in it and they were caught up in an unintentional consequences of a law that was going after gang violence and it caught tourists on the other hand. There was a - they also had a law, and I'm sorry about (INAUDIBLE) - hang on one second with me. Sorry - sorry about that. But they have a law that was 100 percent designed to go after gang violence. And - and when they did that, they - they actually passed a law that trumped, no pun intended there, that trumped a current law that they could have used called the Customs Act. And the Customs Act was designed for when someone accidentally brings in a product or something that's illegal in, into the country you're entering, but legal in the country you left -

HUNT: Sure.

MULLIN: That you can be charging through the Customs Act. This trumped that. And so now you have Americans that are caught up facing a minimum of 12 years. And we had a conversation with them. Honestly, it wasn't that productive. And - and what we were heard, we understood each other. They have a job to do, and that's to protect their island. I respect that.

HUNT: Sure.

MULLIN: We have a job too to protect American people. And if their - if their law is unfortunately catching Americans and throwing - then we really do have to have a longer conversation about saying, should Americans travel to Turks and Caicos until they changed their law.

HUNT: Sure.

Very glad to have a little bit of bipartisanship on our show this morning.

Senator Markwayne Mullin, thank you very much for your time. I'm very grateful.

MULLEN: Thank you.

HUNT: Noteworthy there, I think, David, that he actually said he doesn't think that some - I mean we are seeing some calls to further weaponize the system in a political manner from the right, especially the far right.

DAVID FRUM, STAFF WRITER, "THE ATLANTIC": Yes.

HUNT: He seemed to say, no, don't want to do that.

FRUM: Well, but that buys into a notion about what has already happened that is simply false.

HUNT: That's fair.

FRUM: That, first, this is an action by New York state. The president of the United States had no authority one way or the other about the actions of New York state. He seems to have - the talking point seem to mix up the New York state attorney general, who is a political figure, who says political things, with the district attorney, Alvin Bragg, who was not a political configure and who didn't say the things that Letitia James, the successful candidate for attorney general, did say.

[06:40:01]

So just - you start - but when you start with the presumption that there is no law, there's only politics, you're already a Marxist. So, let's -- the whole point to the non-Marxist is law and politics are different. And not only should they be, they actually are. And that's the thing that is - that everyone in all of our daily lives, we know about the American justice system. You know it is not perfect. No one who's ever been convicted of a crime said, yes, they got me fair and square. They all - every - everybody in prison is there as a result of miscarriage of justice. You know that. You've sent people to prison.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: OK (ph). No one - and a couple things on this. No one likes sending it -

HUNT: (INAUDIBLE).

WILLIAMS: Really quick. Yes, sure. No one likes sending people to prison. I have. It happens.

You know, just one - one quick thing I want to note. Most - I think it's 94 or 95 percent of the prosecutors in America are elected. They are political figures. They run in partisan elections. That does not mean that every task that they take when they get on the job is a partisan choice.

HUNT: Yes.

WILLIAMS: And we can talk about why that's the case.

HUNT: Yes.

WILLIAMS: Anyway, there's a lot to talk about.

HUNT: It's - I mean it's - it's why faith in the system matter so much, right?

WILLIAMS: Yes.

HUNT: The idea that we can believe that people are able to set aside what they believe politically and actually make - make the right decisions.

All right, just ahead here, North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum joins me with his reaction to the historic conviction of Donald Trump. Let's not forget, he's under consideration for vice president.

Plus -

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): I wish Trump hadn't been indicted on any of this stuff.

It distorted the primary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: If that was true for Ron DeSantis in the primary, what does that mean for President Biden now?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:45:43]

HUNT: All right, welcome back.

The word guilty ringing out 34 times in a Manhattan courtroom, Donald Trump facing sentencing in six weeks, just days before the Republican convention, and an election in less than six months.

Here's how the former president and the man who prosecuted him reacted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALVIN Bragg, MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY: I did my job. We did our job. Many voices out there. The only voice that matters is the voice of the jury. And the jury has spoken.

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: This was a rigged, disgraceful trial. The real verdict is going to be November 5th by the people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Our next guest is on Donald Trump's shortlist of possible running mates. Let's bring in Republican North Dakota Governor Doug Burgum.

Governor, very grateful to have you here today.

You were outside the courthouse yesterday meeting with Trump's team. Have you spoken to the former president about this verdict yet? This was a very weighty day for him regardless. How is he taking it in?

GOV. DOUG BURGUM, ENDORSED DONALD TRUMP: Well, Kasie, I was - yes, I was with him yesterday, but that was before the verdict. But I would just have to say that yesterday was a sad day for America, but I'm optimistic this morning. I'm optimistic because I think this - the trial is, you know, part of an eight-year long attempt to people that are - you know, been trying to take down Donald Trump since he won in November '16. And I think the reason why the - people have a hard time understanding why this may not change the outcome in November, or why people are donating in record dollars to Donald Trump yesterday is because the verdict doesn't affect the average American. If yesterday you were struggling to pay your grocery bill, and yesterday you were struggling to pay if your electric bill or you couldn't buy a house because interest rates are too high. You have those same set of problems today. If the border being open had led to some family member who died of a fentanyl poisoning, you still have that same problem today. And this election this fall is going to be about the issues that are affecting American people. It's not going to be about this trial.

HUNT: Does it give you any pause to potentially serve as the vice president or in another role in a Trump administration considering the fact that he is the first convicted felon who is a former president?

BURGUM: Well, Kasie, I - I've been clear many, many times. I wasn't - when I was running for president, I wasn't running to be part of somebody else's team. And when I'm supporting President Trump right now, I'm not doing that for a cabinet position or any other consideration.

As a governor of a natural resources state, I just - I can see right now that the policies of the Biden administration are affecting every American. Inflation is up. And we've got wars abroad, in part because of the energy policies of the Biden administration. When we try to shut down U.S. energy here, we shove that supply overseas to places that produce it less cleanly than us. So, it's bad for the environment. It's bad for the economy. And - and the - it's actually funding Iran and Russia, their war efforts against us. And so that's why I'm doing this, because if we want our country to succeed, if we want Americans to be able to - be able to afford, you know, the food, the gas, and have the life, have the American dream, be able to buy a house, we've got to turn things around in a different direction. And that's why I'm doing what I'm doing. And I think, you know, we're - the - it's not causing me any pause because I think we - everybody knows that it's a very tough - it would be very - very tough for - to get a fair trial for Donald Trump in New York.

HUNT: So, that's a no, it doesn't give you pause?

BURGUM: It does not give me pause.

HUNT: What is your view of how this was handled, these - these business records were handled? You're a businessman. You have been extraordinarily successful. Is what Donald Trump did here in terms of these payments and the way his company operated, do you view that as aboveboard?

BURGUM: Well, Kasie, I mean, as a businessperson, part of this whole reason why it doesn't give me pause to keep sporting the president because I'm in shock. This is a seven-year-old - a seven-year-old set of records payments that were - if - there was - and it was alleged that there was a business records filing issue, that's the core of this case. It's about business records and how they were filed. And since seven years ago, in Manhattan, there's probably been, what, millions, tens of millions of records filed by all of these companies.

[06:50:02]

Has there been any other CEO that's been dragged into court for six weeks to somebody in their accounting department called a legal expense a legal expense on a check and then that check went out 34 times and then all of a sudden now that's 34 felonies, magically it gets transformed from a misdemeanor with a two-year statute of limitations into something that becomes a felony thing.

And then the America - I mean if - if you're a North Dakotan today and you're some farmer/ranch having coffee, it's not about guilty or innocent, they're probably having coffee this morning, what was the crime, because the legal experts that have been camped outside of the courthouse the last six weeks, I've watched them all on all these channels. They can't explain what was the crime that was attached to a business filing that magically turned it from a misdemeanor into 34 felonies. So, if the legal experts can't understand it, Americans can't understand it, they're going to fall back on, what are the issues? And I would just say as a test, this is a thought test, why aren't there 100 other CEOs that have been dragged accord in Manhattan, if this is the everyday - everyday, businesses as usual, like Alvin Bragg said yesterday, where are all the other cases for seven-year-old business filing cases? There are none.

So, then you just have to say, well, it looks like it's political to me.

HUNT: OK.

Governor, before I let you go, you and former President Trumps seem to disagree on who should be the next governor of your state. What do you have to say on that?

BURGUM: Well, I think competition's great for the Republican Party. And we're so fortunate in our state, we have two great candidates, my lieutenant governor, Tammy Miller, and our - our one congressman, Kelly Armstrong. And they're - I'm supporting one. President Trump was supporting the other. But whoever wins that primary in about 12 days from now, North Dakota is going to have a great governor.

HUNT: All right, Governor Doug Burgum, very grateful to have you on this consequential day. Thanks very much for your time.

BURGUM: Thank you, Kasie.

HUNT: All right, if it's Friday, it must be Smerconish here to discuss all things Trump and maybe a few other topics. Michael Smerconish, host of CNN's "SMERCONISH."

Michael, good morning.

Your reaction to what the governor had to say there, particularly - I mean, he's kind of saying, well, he doesn't think Americans are going to care. What do you think?

MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think that was a preview of coming attractions, offered in a - in a very, you know, calm and level-headed manner. What you heard from Doug Burgum, I think, is what you're about to hear from the Trump campaign writ large, although probably with more emotion.

And the primary point that they're going to make is that none of this solves what ails Biden, namely acuity issues, the border, and as he stated, inflation. Nobody knows the impact of this yet. And I've studied all the polling data that preceded the verdict and those individuals who said, well, I might have pause, I might reconsider. I just think the dust needs to settle.

But I would be shocked if the bottom were to fall out of the Trump campaign because nothing has caused that. I go back to the "Access Hollywood" tape. That was the moment that I really thought he was done. And I was wrong. So, I'm the last one who's going to say this is going to have a significant impact. I don't think that it will. HUNT: I mean as someone who covered every twist and turn of both that

campaign and the subsequent Trump administration, I think there were a lot of people who thought, not just the "Access Hollywood" tape - I mean we can go back to him criticizing John McCain as a POW as a thing that a lot of people thought, I think, was going to end the campaign at the time and never did.

Michael, let me show you what Marco Rubio had to say about this. It was raised earlier on in the program because the way that he put this is very, very stark, especially considering Rubio's heritage here.

Let's watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): This is what you see in communist countries. This is what I grew up having people in this community tell me about. It happened in the days after the Castro revolution. Obviously, those lead to executions. This, on the other hand, is an effort to interfere in an election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: What's the impact of saying something like that?

SMERCONISH: It's going to resonate with the base. I have to say, Kasie, my own view is that he slept with her, he paid her, and he did it with an eye toward the election. Having said that, it gives me pause the way in which the misdemeanors were elevated to felony status in this particular case. That doesn't mean I'm carrying water for Donald Trump. But as a lawyer, I feel the same way that I felt - this is going to sound odd - about O.J. I think he killed Nicole Brown Simpson. I think he killed Ron Goldman. But when they sent him away in Las Vegas for stealing his stuff for seven or eight years, as an attorney, I thought, that doesn't sound right to me.

HUNT: Do you think that's ultimately going to mean that swing voters discount this?

SMERCONISH: That's the - I mean, you know, you and I conversant in the Philly burbs. If we could go out and knock on neighbors doors today and find out what they think, I think that would be critical.

The base isn't going to move. But what do those swing voters say? That's really the - the critical question.

I have to say something else about the polling data that I've been studying. What I notice is that when individuals have said it might give me pause to vote for Donald Trump, it - it hasn't necessarily been to President Biden's benefit. They go into this amorphous category of, well, maybe I'll vote for somebody else, or I'm not sure.

[06:55:02]

So, it seems like both of their numbers are really baked in. It's a game of inches. So, if this were to impact even a handful of people in those six battleground states, it could be outcome determinative.

HUNT: All right, Michael Smerconish, always grateful to have you on the program.

SMERCONISH: Thank you, Kasie.

HUNT: And I agree with you, those Philly burbs are going to be the absolute center of the next five months.

Watch "SMERCONISH" tomorrow morning, everybody. Don't miss at. 9:00 a.m. ET.

All right, our panel is back.

And I want to kind of flashback to December when there were more than just two candidates in the Republican race. And this is what one of Donald Trump's - honestly his, at the time, most significant - this - when he first got into the race, he was Donald Trump's most significant Republican rival. This is what he said about Donald Trump's indictments.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): If I could have one thing change, I wish Trump hadn't been indicted on any of this stuff.

But it also just crowded out, I think, so much other stuff and it sucked out a lot of oxygen.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're saying it made him stronger in a way and it made it tougher for you and others?

DESANTIS: I think for the primary it distorted -

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Primary?

DESANTIS: Yes, I think it distorted.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So, Kate Bedingfield, I had a source say to me is, especially if Donald Trump ends up with jail time here, is the Biden campaign going to look back on this and think, man, this is actually a turning point where perhaps we lost the election. And it's counter-intuitive but the idea is basically that this is something that may galvanize his people behind him. And when you're running as an incumbent, it's a referendum on you. That enthusiasm potentially has a pretty sharp challenge. And we've seen, from this trial, I mean the level of oxygen for the president, the sitting president, has been much lower, and they've been frustrated by it.

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN: Yes. I mean, look, I think you kind of hear DeSantis get to this. I mean I do think it is - it is motivating for Donald Trump's base. I think that is true. We've - that's demonstrably true. We've seen that throughout the primary process. That's true. I don't think it is appealing. I don't think it's an appealing

argument to these swing voters that the Biden campaign is trying to - to win. And I think what - I think the way that they have to thread the needle here, and I think that they will. I mean he sort of saw this in the statement they put out yesterday. But the way I think they have to thread the needle is, you know, they have to use this to illustrate the larger argument that Donald Trump is only about Donald Trump. It isn't about - it's not going to be about the specifics of this case. And I think that is something that the Democrats have to absorb and accept and bake into their campaign strategy moving forward. The ins and outs of how - whether, you know, he was found guilty on these particular counts and what the specifics were, it is not going to matter to most swing voters.

What will matter, I think, is this larger notion that he's a convicted felon who lies and cheats and makes everything about him and will do anything to win and they can draw the large - they can paint to a larger picture of what he did to try to incite the January 6th riot, which we've seen is problematic for people. Voters feel uncomfortable about that. They feel like it - you know, it's fundamentally un- American.

So, you know, I don't think, at the end of the day - I don't think, at the end of the day, this is going to help Donald Trump win a general election. But I do think the Biden campaign has to be smart about how they use it in order to ensure that outcome.

HUNT: David Frum, what do you think it means that we're going to have a verdict in this case, but that it is, let's just say it, incredibly unlikely that we will see a trial in the January 6th case before voters have to make a decision.

FRUM: Well, the latter is really a problem. But I think the former is powerful.

When we talk about swing voters, I think the Biden - if I were the Biden campaign, I would think about two pools of them. The first are the people who are disaffiliated from the political system. Younger people, poor people, and they - they are the people that feel that the prices and the interest rates and they're disaffected for a lot of reasons. And energizing them is going to be talking about basic issues.

But, you know, Biden is president in the first place because a lot of people who normally vote Republican, who voted for Mitt Romney, who voted for John McCain, crossed the line to vote for him uniquely for president. I mean in an election where Republicans did well down the ballot, they voted for a Republican senator, a Republican member of the House, and then for Joe Biden. Those people - and there are - there are a pretty big bunch of them, and they are - they are highly connected, highly affiliated. They own homes. They have IRSs. They follow the news. They watch you. They can - they care about the law and they don't believe that this country is Cuba and they get mad when someone says it is. WILLIAMS: Oh, the Cuba stuff drives me nuts. And particularly when - going back to the Black Lives Matter protests and so on. You know, the allegations that we were worse than South Africa or Venezuela. It's nonsense.

And for - and back to things that make this country great, and we're going to end the program soon, let's just talk for a second about the jury.

We have all, as American citizens, either been called for jury duty and sat for jury duty. It is an awesome responsibility. I have dealt with jurors. And it's very powerful. They're - those 12 people's opinions are the only ones that matter. Not Jack Smith. Not Donald Trump. Not anybody else who's popping off about what's right or wrong. And they took on an awesome responsibility and handled it with distinction, whether we like the outcome or not.

[07:00:01]

And we should all be grateful for them and keep them safe and protected.

One other point, this idea that you can't get a fair trial in New York City. I note that we had guests on today, one of whom, Markwayne Mullin, comes from a district that was 73 or 72 percent voted for Donald Trump, 23 not. Bismarck, North Dakota, where Governor Burgum is from, voted for Trump, 69 to 28 percent. I'd love to ask them if a Democrat could get - if they would say that a Democrat could get a fair trial there. The answer is yes, because people get fair trials all over the country. The idea that merely because there's a political split that people - that the criminal justice system falls apart is just nonsense.

HUNT: All right, well, that's the good note to end on. We could talk about this all day, but our time is up. Thanks to our panel. Thanks to you for being here. I'm Kasie Hunt. Don't go anywhere. CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.