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President Biden Makes Statement about Hunter Biden's Trial; Garland to Face Attacks at House Hearing; Dr. Deborah Birx is Interviewed about Attacks on Fauci and the Covid-19 Response; Manchin and Menendez File to Become Independents. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired June 04, 2024 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:32:00]

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back.

Just hours from now, opening statements will begin in the federal gun trial of the president's son, Hunter Biden, who's accused of failing to disclose his use of illegal drugs when he purchased a firearm in 2018. He is pleading not guilty to all three felony charges.

Yesterday, 12 jurors and four alternates were seated in the case. Among them, gun owners and relatives of addicts.

The president issuing a statement of support for his son, writing this, quote, "as the president, I don't and won't comment on pending federal cases, but as a dad, I have boundless love for my son, confidence in him, and respect for his strength."

Our panel is back.

Jonah Goldberg, this, of course, something that is incredibly difficult for any father to have to go through. He is also, though, the president of the United States.

How - what is the right way to balance these two roles here for him, for the president?

JONAH GOLDBERG, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Oh, I don't know. I think the statement is about as good as you can expect from a president. I don't know. It would be inappropriate for him to go outside the four corners of being the defendant's dad. At the same time, they're kind of - I mean, in a way, they're kind of lucky that this is as narrowly focused on the gun charge and not the full, rich tapestry of Hunter Biden problems, which is one reason why the talking point with a lot of Republicans doesn't work when you say, well, this, you know, the DOJ is targeting Trump. It's also going after Hunter Biden. They're like, yes, but they're only going after this very narrow thing.

So, look, I don't know. I think he should - that should be his last statement. It's fine. Just stay out of it is - is the only advice I would give him. And Kate's the pro at this stuff. HUNT: Well, I was curious, from someone who's not quite - you know,

has not been in the sympathetic corner - or the official, shall we say, sympathetic corner for President Biden.

GOLDBERG: Yes.

HUNT: But, Kate, I mean, how does this - I mean you've been inside the White House. You know the family. This has, obviously, been an ongoing thing. It is not - it is not new. And it's clear the president himself feels a lot of guilt.

I was talking to Alex Thompson, the "Axios" reporter, earlier, who's been covering the trial, and he was saying that there's no small amount of guilt felt by the president in terms of the timeline of when this all unfolded, which was when - when President Biden was thinking about running for president the first time.

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. I think that's true.

And look, you - you really can't underestimate or under appreciate how close-knit the Biden family is. You know, I sat in countless meetings, in many situations where Joe Biden stopped the meeting and took a call from his kids, his grandkids, his sibling. I mean he truly is somebody who puts family first. And for him, family supersedes all else.

So, it is hard for him, obviously, as a father. It's hard for all of them, for their family member to be going through this.

But also, don't forget, you know, he's somebody who has balanced personal tragedy, and challenge - and familial challenges with the obligations of public services entire life.

[06:35:04]

I mean he lost his - his first wife and his daughter in a car crash weeks after he was elected to the Senate.

So, you know, he - I think he will remain very focused, laser-focused on his duties as president. I certainly saw him do that as he was, you know, grappling with family issues.

But the other thing I would say about this is, you know, this is also something I had a front row seat to in 2019 and 2020. You know, Republicans have really tried to make this line of attack against Hunter, you know, a, you know, driving an effective attack. And it really just hasn't worked. I mean if you look at - go back and look at the first debate between Trump and Biden and Trump really wound up and tried to, you know, go at Hunter, and had spent all this time at his rallies, you know, with the, where's Hunter and all of that.

HUNT: Uh-huh.

BEDINGFIELD: And, you know, Biden just looked in the camera and said, I love my son. And I think everyone in this country can relate to having somebody they love struggling with addiction or mental illness. And I will tell you, that was one of the most powerful moments in the

debate. It was a - it was a moment that we saw popped in focus groups after the debate. We saw on the campaign, I should say, the Biden campaign popped in focus groups, popped in polling. It's what people remembered.

So, this notion that coming at Joe Biden's family is a way to undermine Joe Biden, it doesn't work.

HUNT: Yes.

Well, and we've also seen Hunter Biden's team change their strategy, Farnoush. This was Abbe Lowell, who is Hunter Biden's very high- powered, well-known Washington attorney, talking about the Oversight chairman, Comer. This was back in September of 2023.

Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ABBE LOWELL, HUNTER BIDEN'S ATTORNEY: It is the folks like Chairman Comer and the Republican MAGA crazies who have been pressuring this U.S. attorney to do something to vindicate their political position. And, guess what, they succeeded.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So, this is really, Farnoush, a somewhat Trumpian strategy. And while we have, you know, Jamie Raskin out there saying, look, we're not doing what - Democrats are not doing what Republicans are doing around Donald Trump. Abbe Lowell's doing a little bit of it, saying this is political.

FARNOUSH, AMIRI, CONGRESSIONAL REPORTER, "ASSOCIATED PRESS": Yes, no, I mean it's really fascinating if you also go back to the conversation we were just having about the president's statement about his son, right? He is making a statement about his son's case days after the former president is (INAUDIBLE). He knows that he has a set the tone for what he thinks is the responsible behavior in a court of - in a court proceeding, right? How much should a former president, or a current president, get involved in the legal proceedings, whether it's against him or his son.

I think, you know, what - what Abbe Lowell's tactics are, obviously he is the attorney for the president's son. So him. But Raskin has said this many times, and so have many members of Congress, including Democrats, we are not electing Hunter Biden to become president. No one is saying Hunter Biden is perfect. I have said that several times. I think many Democrats want to stop talking about Hunter Biden and want to focus on the accomplishments of President Joe Biden. But that's clearly not the case since this has become a political toy for Republicans.

HUNT: Yes. All right, let's turn now a to Capitol Hill today, where Attorney

General Merrick Garland will fend off GOP attacks against his Department of Justice during his annual oversight hearing before the House Judiciary Committee. His testimony will come just a week after two Republican-led committees voted to advance contempt proceedings against Garland over his refusal to turn over audio recordings of President Biden's interview with special counsel Robert Hur.

According to remarks shared with CNN, the AG plans to say this, quote, "I will not be intimidated. And the Justice Department will not be intimidated. We will continue to do our jobs free from political influence. And we will not back down from defending our democracy."

Jonah, this is an interesting - I mean the - when these contempt charges against Garland were moving forward, he came out and made rare, public comments really defending the department. Now he's going to go in and say this. It's, of course, after he's gotten some criticism behind the scenes from Democrats for not being aggressive enough on January 6th, He's been very protective of the department. It seems like you are seeing that here, but in a more aggressive way.

Is it the right - is it the right move?

GOLDBERG: Yes, I mean, look, I mean I think the - the - both the criticism and the defense of Garland is that he is a pretty passionate institutionalist before he's anything else.

I just want to - just as a level setting thing. I think the administration's arguments for not handing over the audio are constitutional garbage. And I think the Congress' arguments for demanding it are constitutional garbage. They're both entirely -

HUNT: Aggressive Jonah criticism, by the way, constitutional garbage.

BEDINGFIELD: No winners in Jonah Goldberg's words (ph).

GOLDBERG: They're - they're - they're both just doing this for partisan reasons. They - because they both think the audio will hurt Biden. That's why the Republicans want it. And that's why the DOJ doesn't want to release it.

All other things being equal, tie goes to Congress. Congress is the supreme branch, according to our Constitution. But it is all the high mindedness of this I just find utterly unpersuasive. This is purely a partisan gutter fight.

BEDINGFIELD: I actually think the fact that this is a partisan gutter fight makes this - makes this moment today politically problematic for Republicans.

[06:40:05]

Coming on the tail of the Trump verdict, and what we know about how their argument that, you know, the weaponization of the justice system is landing with - with independent voters, which is to say not all that well based on - based on the polling. So I think, you know, to see them kind of front and center today, like, hard charging at this idea that, you know, the Department of Justice is weaponized, again, while the president's son is literally on trial in Delaware. So, I'm not sure that argument holds.

But, you know, it's - it's not a good argument for them.

I would also - you know, remember, this is - remember, this is kind of the consolation prize of sorts since their Biden impeachment effort fell apart. They sort of pivoted to this to kind of save face a little bit.

So, you know, I just think that this argument across the board is not a winner for Republicans. And so, you know, the AG, I think, will be a forcible defender of process on the Department of Justice today. And I think for Americans who are paying attention, that - that will land with.

GOLDBERG: The best thing that could happen is if the whole fight descends around whether or not Biden ordered the assassination of Donald Trump at Mar-a-Lago. Because that will bring out all the crazy. Garland will look like a normal human being. And - and - and odds are, a lot of Republicans are going to take that bait.

HUNT: Again, Jonah is - is - is talking about some right-wing - I would describe them as conspiracies around a pretty standard FBI procedure that was used when the raid was conducted on Mar-a-Lago.

All right, let's move on. Coming up next, say it ain't so. Major League Baseball may be dealing with another betting scandal.

Plus, Dr. Deborah Birx is here to talk to us about Covid and Republican attacks on Dr. Fauci.

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[06:45:58]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Do you represent science, Mr. Fauci? Yes or no.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, FORMER CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISOR TO THE PRESIDENT: No, that's not a yes or no answer.

GREENE: Yes, it's a yes or no.

But this is science.

FAUCI: What do dogs have to do with anything that we're talking about today.

GREENE: These are - these are scientific experiments.

You're not a doctor. You're Mr. Fauci in my few minutes. He belongs in prison.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gentle lady will suspend. I've instructed her to address him as doctor.

GREENE: I'm not addressing him as doctor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The gentle lady shall continue.

GREENE: We should be writing a criminal referral because you should be prosecuted for crimes against humanity. You belong in prison, Dr. Fauci.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: OK. Sometimes tense moments on Capitol Hill yesterday where Dr. Anthony Fauci pushed back against Republican criticisms of his handling of the Covid-19 pandemic. He denied accusations that he aided Chinese efforts to create the coronavirus, hid pandemic data and made up social distancing guidelines.

Fauci choked up at one point as he described the threats that his family has faced as a result of all of those claims.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, FORMER CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISOR TO THE PRESIDENT: There have been credible death threats leading to the arrests of two individuals. And credible death threats mean someone who clearly was on their way to kill me.

It is very troublesome to me. It is much more troublesome because they've involved my wife and my three daughters.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right. Joining me now is Dr. Deborah Birx. She was response coordinator for the White House Coronavirus Task Force in the Trump administration.

Dr. Birx, very grateful for your time today.

You obviously have worked closely in your career at -- with Dr. Fauci and you have come to understand some of the same dynamics that he was talking about there in terms of the threats.

What -- when you see something like what played out with Marjorie Taylor Greene happened in this hearing, I mean, how do you understand the real-world ramifications of that?

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE CORONAVIRUS RESPONSE COORDINATOR: My parents taught me that we can have an honest and transparent dialogue without name-calling and without disparaging people as humans, as their families. I appreciate where Dr. Fauci is and what he's experienced.

I've experienced much of the same. I have two daughters, too, and they screened my mail because there was so many death threats that came by mail, by text.

And they're not just death threats. They're sexual threats, which are very disconcerting to your daughters, when you're trying to teach than that America is safe.

So -- and we have to be able to -- I was on the debate team, a little bit of a nerd, and you got to argue both sides, and you understood that you could make your points in a collegial way. And I -- the one thing good coming out of the hearing, I believe, and I think Dr. Fauci made this point over and over again, we're at a place where we can definitively say we do not know if it was lab or zoonotic from animals.

We do a lot of zoonotic work. It's our opportunity to really decide as a global community how we're going to control laboratory experiments in a way that protects the public.

HUNT: Do you think there is any veracity to some of the Republican accusations that there was an effort to discredit the lab leak theory?

BIRX: I think early on, people did take very definitive sides. And it did divide along party lines. And we're still suffering from that four years later, in a whole set of issues related to pandemic and pandemic preparedness.

HUNT: Sure. But on the lab leak specifically, you think that happened?

BIRX: I do think it happened. I think people were -- if you look at what people said about Bob Redfield and how they disparaged him as a scientist because he wanted to bring forward the lab leak potential. And I think the reason he felt he needed to bring it forward to push -- was to push against this, it had to be this way because we didn't know, and we knew we would never know.

I mean, we knew with SARS, that China was not transparent. We knew with the second SARS, China was not transparent.

So, we were not going to get an answer, but that shouldn't have held us back 4-1/2 years later, from both ensuring that we protect against lab leaks and we protect that public.

[06:50:05]

I mean, people got infected with HIV in the lab. It happens. It definitely happens.

And so, we have to put different rules and regulations and guidelines in place to protect the public. We can do that. We've done that before.

HUNT: I realize hindsight is 2020, and you and everyone in our government who worked hard to keep Americans safe, deserve all of the -- all of the thanks in the world for taking that on, on behalf of all of us.

But with hindsight being 2020, is there anything you think you would do differently? It does strike me in figuring -- trying to figure out how to cover this, that if we do face another pandemic, it's going to be a serious crisis of trust in the people that are going to be trying to battle it in the types of roles you and Dr. Fauci held in 2020.

BIRX: Because we didn't address community issues and we learned that in HIV. This is what bothers me because Tony and I and Bob all faced HIV and understood the way you battle and the way we're controlling HIV without a vaccine is working with the community and listening to what they need. And still, we're not listening to their concerns and saying this is a study that addresses that, or we don't have the study that addresses that and we're going to get the information because we know it's important to you.

We can't ignore people. And when you ignore people, they get pushed to the side. They even got more vehement because they know they're being ignored.

When you look at what happened in rural health, people died in rural communities because they've been dying at 20 percent higher rates across all diseases for more than a decade. They know that. They know that they've been ignored from the health care system.

So these are the kinds of things that we have to address to rebuild trust. It's not going to happen as a one-off. It's going to happen as a continuously listening, not sitting in Atlanta or Washington by getting out in the communities and listening to their concerns.

If we do that --

HUNT: You did enough of it in 2020?

BIRX: Well, it's why I went out state by state because every -- what was I think not appreciated is amazing things were done and we're not capitalizing on that. We're not capitalizing on the FDA nimbleness, and really creating that is a future pathway.

We're not capitalizing on bringing the private sector to all pandemic preparedness because they're the ones that brought us tests. They're the one that brought us treatments. They're the ones that brought us vaccines in a very quick period of time.

But we haven't onshored our active pharmaceutical ingredients. We're still very dependent on elsewhere.

HUNT: You mean that we don't make the stuff that goes into our drugs here in America. Sorry to translate this.

BIRX: We don't make -- yes, yes, absolutely. Thank you.

We're not onshoring critical essential medicines that can protect American people.

HUNT: Yeah. So while I have you, I can I just ask -- and again, I'm sort of thinking about how does this look if we potentially face another pandemic, which I know again, everyone in this system is constantly preparing for.

We're seeing a lot of concerning reports about bird flu at the moment. The outbreaks in cows leading to, you know, test and milk. I'm getting questions from my friends who are also moms is this -- is this safe? Is it not?

What is the level of concern right now about that potentially becoming a pandemic?

BIRX: Well, thank you, Kasie, because this is why I'm really concerned because we're making the same mistakes today that we made with COVID.

HUNT: Okay.

BIRX: And what do I mean by that? We're not testing to really see how many people have been exposed and got asymptomatically infected. We should be testing every cow weekly. You can do pooled PCR.

We have the technology. We're -- the great thing about America is we're incredibly innovative, and we have the ability to have these breakthroughs. We could be pool testing every dairy worker.

I do believe that there's undetected cases in humans because we're once again only tracking people with symptoms. When we did that with COVID, the virus spread throughout the Northeast undetected because it took a long time to get to the vulnerable individuals.

But in the meantime, thousands, hundreds of thousands of people were infected with asymptomatic or mild disease and never came to medical attention. We have to switch from symptoms to actually definitive laboratory testing. We have the capacity to do that today.

HUNT: Right.

BIRX: Like that.

HUNT: Well, that's cheerful.

(LAUGHTER)

HUNT: I don't know exactly what to say. But it does -- it does -- there's so much that that happened that we saw play out in 2020 that I think is going to matter in terms of future. And you're right that we learned a lot as well in terms of PCR testing.

BIRX: Absolutely.

HUNT: Dr. Birx, I'm very grateful for your time today. Thank you very much for being here.

BIRX: Thank you for having me on.

HUNT: All right, 54 minutes past the hour. Here's your morning roundup. A 74-year-old woman in Nebraska pronounced dead by a doctor at a nursing home and transported to a funeral home, where an employee notice that she was still breathing. She was given CPR and taken to the hospital.

A juror in Minnesota dismissed yesterday after reporting a woman dropped a bag with $120,000 in cash at her home and offered her more money if she voted to acquit seven people in a fraud case.

[06:55:11]

Wow.

A gambling scandal in Major League Baseball. San Diego Padres infielder Tucupita Marcano facing a possible lifetime ban for allegedly betting on games involving the Pittsburgh Pirates while he was on the team last season.

And this story.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): There's carrying peppers, marrying peppers, diet peppers, quiet peppers, wouldn't you like to be a pepper too?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Dr. Pepper overtaking Pepsi to become the second most popular soda in America. Coke - Coca-Cola still the nominate number one brand.

That surprises me. Does anybody drink Dr. Pepper?

AMIRI: I used to. I was like a young kid. I shouldn't have been drinking it, but as a child I drank it a lot.

BEDINGFIELD: Diet Dr. Pepper, kind of delicious. Kind of delicious.

HUNT: Yes, not - not the worst. Not the worst.

AMIRI: Coke is still the best.

HUNT: Um, yes.

BEDINGFIELD: Coke is king. I'm from Atlanta. So, Coke is king.

GOLDBERG: Satan's urine (ph).

BEDINGFIELD: Or that.

HUNT: All right, now to this story.

Two more U.S. senators leaving the Democratic Party for very different reasons. West Virginia Senator Joe Manchin and New Jersey Senator Bob Menendez both filing to become independents. Menendez's decision comes after a criminal indictment on federal corruption charges that led him to lose support from members of his party. Manchin chose to drop the Democratic label because he claims it became toxic in his home state.

Our own Manu Raju spoke to Manchin yesterday about his political future.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (I-WV): No, I'm not running for any office, political office. I've been very clear about that.

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Closing the door completely on both of those?

MANCHIN: Well, I'm not - I have not universally (ph). I never leave any - you never leave any political opportunity and walk away from that. So, you always have options because life is full of surprises. But I have no intention of running for political office. I have intention of being in the political fray by talking to people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: That's Joe Manchin's like political philosophy right there in a 30-second soundbite.

GOLDBERG: Shermon-esque.

HUNT: Never leave a political opportunity unavailable to yourself.

GOLDBERG: Yes, I mean, look, I mean, I think all these guys have very healthy egos and they can envision this moment where America calls forth for Cincinnatus to lay down his plow and save us. And that's what I think he's referring to.

But I don't think he's organizing to run for anything. I think he wants to be called to service.

HUNT: Yes, I -

BEDINGFIELD: Don't we all.

HUNT: I'm sorry.

BEDINGFIELD: Don't - don't we all.

HUNT: Farnoush, can we talk about Menendez for a second because, again, I mean we're talking about these two stories together because these - they're both running as independents. But I do want to make sure that we separate the reasons for that, right? This is Joe Manchin's choice entirely. Senator Menendez was basically pushed off the Democratic stage by a primary because he has refused to step down in the context of these allegations. Still allegations. He is currently on trial.

It -- I - my - the thing that I kind of wonder about Menendez is, is this the first test we get of whether Donald Trump is the only one who can ever - who can overcome stuff like this because, I mean, I'd be really surprised if he were to, you know, actually win a Senate race, but he seems to be trying the things that Trump has successfully tried.

AMIRI: Yes, I think with Menendez, I mean, past is, you know, pretense of what he already, you know, beat - this is the second time he's going through allegations of this kind. The second time he's going through an indictment. He survived that one. The party stood by him. He regained his chairmanship of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, a high perch for any senator.

And, you know, you're seeing this happen for the second time. And we'll see if he survives it. I mean, obviously, the - Andy Kim, the New Jersey Democrat who is running for the Senate seat, is likely to become the Democratic favorite. And, you know, there is some conversations about Republicans, but New Jersey has not had a Republican senator and 40, 50 years. So, I don't see that happening.

But, you know, Menendez's future beyond this moment will be interesting, right? We've seen a lot of people take some time off from public life after facing legal troubles or any sort of controversy and then come back stronger. But I think you're right, I think we'll see if Donald Trump is going to be the only political, you know, character of our time who can overcome legal battles and still get public office.

HUNT: Well, yes, and - yes. The stakes and the - the level of it is - is - is (INAUDIBLE).

AMIRI: Is definitely - yes, senator and president are a little different, but, yes.

HUNT: Yes.

All right, I'll leave you with this. In a political climate, we talked about it here all the time, lawmakers seem to, unfortunately, sometimes behave like school children. It is only fitting that it was a kindergartener who stole the show on the House floor on Monday. Tennessee Republican John Rose was passionately defending Donald Trump, but I'm pretty sure no one listened to a word he said because his six-year-old son was behind him putting on quite a show.

[07:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. JOHN ROSE (R-TN): We'd be well-served to remember the long and cherished tradition.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: The guy hammed it up for the cameras. It went viral on social media. We've got these comments from Capitol Hill staffers. Quote, "so sorry I was slow responding to your email. I was tied up watching this over and over again." And this quote, "he knows something" from the minority leader's press secretary.

Rose soon got wise and shared this, quote, "this is what I get for telling my son Guy to smile at the camera for his little brother." I have to say, that's the most adorable thing I've seen in a while. We could all use it in terms of how we think about our politics.

Thanks to the panel. Thanks to you for joining us. I'm Kasie Hunt. CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.