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Jury Deliberations Resume in Biden Trial Today; Trump Speaks to Anti-Abortion Group; Rep. Ralph Norman (R-SC) is Interviewed about Garland; Trump Comments About Taylor Swift. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired June 11, 2024 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:31:58]

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome back.

The jury in Hunter Biden's federal gun trial continues deliberations today. The defense rested yesterday after Hunter declined to testify in this historic case. It's the first criminal trial against the child of a sitting president.

During closing arguments, prosecutors tried to convince the jury that Hunter was a drug user at the time that he purchased a gun six years ago, saying, quote, :had he continued to use narcotics, smoke crack every 15 minutes throughout 2018 and decided not to buy a gun, we wouldn't be here in this courtroom. Choices have consequences and that's why we're here."

Later, Hunters defense attorney argued the prosecutor's case was similar to a magicians trick, adding, quote, "there is nothing there."

Joining me now from Wilmington, Delaware, is Alex Thompson, the national political reporter for "Axios," who has been covering this trial day in and day out.

Alex, wonderful to see you.

How - like, just catch us up with what you saw in court yesterday during these closing arguments. And I want to dig into how the family in particular is playing into this because my understanding is the jurors were told not to be intimidated by the fact that it's the family of the president of the United States.

ALEX THOMPSON, NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER, "AXIOS": Yes.

So, yesterday you saw both very lengthy closing arguments. I believe Abbe Lowell, Hunter Biden's lawyer, went for about 87 minutes. And then the prosecution got two shots at it. And they probably got about the same, about 87 minutes.

And, you know, to your other point, you know, they - the prosecution said, if they had not proven that Hunter Biden was a crack addict then no one is a crack addict. And it got a little chip between the two sides. Abbe Lowell, at one point, said that the prosecution had been, quote, "enormously cruel" to Naomi Biden, Hunter Biden's daughter, the president's granddaughter, in how they cross-examined her. The government came right back and said it was them who put her on the stand, that put her in that position. And it was Hunter Biden who, according to text messages at the time, had been erratic and texting her in the middle of the night and had, you know, I think they put it, as said, blowing her off. And so it got very personal.

In terms of how the family, you know, yesterday was the most family that we have seen in this trial. You had aunts, uncles, cousins, the - you know, cousins' spouses. It was, you know, at least a full thing. And it was interesting that both sides, in their closing arguments, you know, made, you know, made allusions to the family.

Now, Abbe Lowell, Hunter's lawyer, has been really trying to, you know, portray Hunter as like a family person and, you know, has been referencing the family as part of that, that he is just, you know, I think, one of you. Whereas the prostitution is basically saying what you just alluded to, which is, don't be intimidated. This is not - you know, these people are not evidenced. These people are not really part of the trial.

HUNT: How would you describe kind of the mood among the Biden family members who attended from what you could observe? I mean it - what did what it - what did that feel like?

[06:35:05]

THOMPSON: Yes, I think they - you could see a little bounce in their step after Abbe Lowell's closing. You know, having just a fulsome 87 minute defense from - of Hunter, you know, when, you know, I think a lot of the family feels he has just been hit day after day after day for the last several years. And I think, you know, I even saw Val Biden, the president's sister, sort of give them a go - give Abbe a go get them right - right afterward.

But, you know, after - at the very end, you know, I don't think the family likes being at felony trial for, you know, Joe Biden's son. And you could tell there were certainly moments Ashley Biden, in particular, the president's daughter and Hunter's sister, has, you know, been very emotional at moments in this trial, you know, having to leave at some point, (INAUDIBLE) lots of tears. And you can tell it's been harder on some than on the others.

HUNT: Yes.

One of the arguments that came up was about Hallie Biden. One of the attorneys said, quote, "poor Hallie Biden, who had to be dragged through this period of her life again, who understandably did not remember a lot of the details. Was she remembering what she saw that day or dozens of other days when she too was using. If you noticed, she could remember what the prosecutors asked her. The prosecutors who also gave her immunity, but not so much for any number of things."

So, that - that, I guess, coming from - from Abbe Lowell. Clearly they felt like they needed to defend other members of the family too. How did that kind of fit in?

THOMPSON: Well, this has been a key part of Hunter Biden's strategy from the very beginning, which is to really try to undermine the credibility of Hallie Biden, who's Beau's widow, who is also his sister-in-law. And the reason is because her testimony he, you know, very, very troubling if you're Hunter Biden. The fact is that she was the one that found the gun. She - and when she testified that when she went into the truck, she found crack cocaine paraphernalia, suggesting that he had been smoking very recently, that she found powder that day, which also suggested he had been using, and was the one that he was texting during the period he had the gun in which, you know, he said that he was smoking crack.

And, you know, this goes to a larger sort of dynamic within both the defense and the prosecution, which, you know, at the very end of the day, beyond the facts of the case, I think it will really come down to, do you relate to Hunter Biden or do you resent Hunter Biden? And, you know, the prosecute - the - Hunter's team basically wants to make you think he's a family man, that he was suffering from a disease, that he's one of you in Delaware, home grown. Whereas the defense is saying, no, this is a bad guy. This is a guy that, you know, what - you know, the little details, that he was withdrawing $151,000 in cash withdrawal in just three months, that he was a millionaire, that he was Yale educated, that he gave $800 to his 24-year-old girlfriend to buy clothes for his daughters. You know, these little details that are meant to, you know, portray a different sort of person. And that may end up being the difference maker with this jury.

HUNT: All right, Alex Thompson for us this morning.

Alex, thank you very much for that.

Meghan Hays, can I ask you, you know, as someone who's been in the Biden family orbit, how this all - I mean, as Alex said, the entire family has shown up for him at this trial, understandably, but it's got to be weighing on the president, who, of course, has not made an appearance at the courtroom.

MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER SPECIAL ASSISTANT TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: Yes, I mean, I don't think that the - anybody here at this table would be surprised that Hunter is at the forefront of the president's mind right now. It's an extremely challenging situation. He's a dad, first and foremost. I think he said that in his statement. But I do think that the - you know, this is someone who is - is an addict. He is a recovering addict right now. And I think that the family's concerned. And I think they're showing up to be supportive of him. I think that's what families do, is they show up and support people when - in their time of need.

HUNT: All right. Let's turn now to the 2024 campaign trail where Donald Trump gave virtual remarks yesterday to the Danbury Institute. It is a conservative Christian group. They call abortion, quote, "child sacrifice," and, quote, "the greatest atrocity facing our generation today."

Trump, who just two months ago said abortion should be left to the states, didn't explicitly mentioned abortion during his remarks. That's an omission that for the presumptive nominee of the Republican Party says a lot about the politics of this issue in a post-Dobbs America. Instead, Trump said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We are a seriously declining nations. Seriously, seriously, and so sad. I know that each of you is protecting those values every day and I hope we'll be defending them side-by-side for your next four years. These are going to be your years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So, Matt Gorman, I mean, he, obviously, is trying to tell them something that they want to hear.

[06:40:03]

But to not mention abortion at a group like this, I mean it just shows like what a tough position any Republican is in, in a world where the protections of Roe means that, well, if you say life begins at conception, suddenly you're threatening everything, including in vitro fertilization.

MATT GORMAN, FORMER SENIOR ADVISER TO TIM SCOTT'S PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: No, I mean, look, I think abortion's probably the best issue for Democrats. And it makes the most sense for him to run on it. And I think it doesn't make sense also for Trump to give more grist to anything that they're going to use against him already in a campaign.

And I think what this is - I'm more and more convinced that this election is essentially going to come down to either the economy hovering above all, and immigration on the right, abortion on the left, competing as the single issue, crawl over broken glass type issues for voters. And which one wins out - the last couple years we've seen abortion win out. Could happen again. Immigration's been very salient. What happens? And I think that's going to tell us the story of the election.

MOLLY BALL, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "WALL STREET JOURNAL": Well, and I think the debate that I'm hearing among my Republican sources about how they and their candidates should message the abortion issue is very similar to how I here Democrats talking about immigration? The question is, do you try to keep it off the agenda and not talk about it in the hopes that you can raise the salience of some other issue, right. So, if you're a Democrat do you ignore immigration and just try to talk about abortion where you feel like you have a better message?

There is a school of thought, I think, in both of these camps that says, no, you have to go at it. You have to say to voters, I understand why you think this is important and here is my position so that they're not left guessing. So, you know, Republicans have been having this active debate since the fall of Roe, saying, we do have to have a message for voters about abortion, we do have to have something to say to them, otherwise we're just going to get clobbered. And I think you've seen Democrats on immigration, the same thing, a lot of candidates have tried to avoid the issue, but there is sort of a new conventional wisdom on the Democratic side that says, if you do that, you're just going to get killed on this issue that is important to so many voters. You do need to have some kind of positive message, even if it's not necessarily going to be popular because, in both cases, the parties are on the wrong side of these respective issues.

HUNT: Yes, a really interesting way to think about it. OK.

The House Rules Committee meets today to consider holding Attorney General Merrick Garland in contempt. We're going to talk about that with a member of the committee. Republican Ralph Norman of South Carolina.

Plus, Donald Trump questioning whether Taylor Swift is a legit liberal.

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[06:46:40]

HUNT: All right, 46 minutes past the hour. Here's your morning roundup.

This just in, the plane carrying Malawi's vice president and nine other people has been found. Everyone on board was killed. The plane went missing Monday after it failed to make a scheduled landing.

President Biden set to addressing a major gun violence prevention conference in D.C. today, nearly two years after signing the first federal gun safety legislation to be passed in decades.

There you have it. Rudy Giuliani's mug shot after he posted a $10,000 bond in his election interference case in Arizona Donald Trump's former lawyer showing no remorse as he left court.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you have any regrets about what you - what you did in Arizona after the election?

RUDY GIULIANI, FORMER TRUMP ATTORNEY: Oh, my goodness, no.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why not?

GIULIANI: I'm very, very proud of it.

There was a substantial amount of vote fraud that went on here that was covered up. Probably one of the biggest conspiracies in American history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Let me just say, there was no evidence of any of the things that he just said there. Giuliani pleaded not guilty in May to nine felony charges stemming from his alleged role in Arizona's fake electors scheme.

The Port of Baltimore is open for business. The shipping lane into the harbor fully reopened last night for the first time since the Francis Scott Key Bridge was hit by a cargo ship and collapsed in March. Quick work from all those folks.

All right, let's turn now to Capitol Hill, where the House Rules Committee will meet today to decide whether to advance contempt charges against Attorney General Merrick Garland over his refusal to provide lawmakers the audio of President Biden's interview with Special Counsel Robert Hur, after Hur found that Biden mishandled classified documents but would likely present to a jury as a, quote, "sympathetic, well-meaning elderly man with a poor memory," end quote.

The GOP-led push comes just a week after Garland testified before Congress where he said this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MERRICK GARLAND, U.S. ATTORNEY GENERAL: I will not be intimidated. And the Justice Department will not be intimidated.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: And joining me now is South Carolina Republican Congressman Ralph Norman. He sits on the House Rules Committee, a powerful one in the House.

Congressman, good morning. Thank you for being here.

REP. RALPH NORMAN (R-SC): My pleasure. Glad to be with you.

HUNT: So, the attorney general, Merrick Garland, has a new "Washington Post" opinion piece that's out this morning, and he writes in that piece, quote, "disagreements about our politics are good for our democracy. They are normal. But using conspiracy theories, falsehoods, violence, and threats of violence to affect political outcomes is not normal. The short-term political benefits of those tactics will never make up for the long-term cost to our country. Continued, unfounded attacks against the Justice Department's employees are dangerous for people's safety, they are dangerous for our democracy, and they must stop."

What do you have to say to his argument there?

NORMAN: Attorney General Garland is - let's just say it's laughable what he's taking part in. He's not above the law. He says he's not going to be intimidated. You know, it's very simple, what the committee asked for.

HUNT: I don't think he's arguing that he's above - you're saying he's not above the law in the context of the contempt charges around - that you are considering? NORMAN: What - what he's not above the law in is when - Congress has every right, in Article One, to hold committees that investigates the DOJ, and any other agency.

[06:50:04]

And what we asked for is the - since the - President Biden had an interview with Robert Hur asking for the audio tapes. Very, very simple. The audio tapes. And he won't - he - they initially - this started back in February of this - February 5th. And we asked for the audio tapes, which do exist. And on February 16th, the DOJ, under the guidance of Merrick Garland, said they weren't going to meet the timeline. They extended the timeline. So - and then finally they came back and said there's no justifiable reason why you need the audiotapes.

The - Biden has already waived the executive privilege by printing the - the, you know, the interview.

HUNT: Sir -

NORMAN: So, we just want to tapes to see if they match up with what's being purported. They redacted several parts of it. So, by saying he's not above the law, he's going to be in contempt. We will pass it I think in the Rules. And we'll hold him accountable, like he's doing every - you know, every other person that's got an "r" beside their name, unjustly (ph) I think (ph).

HUNT: What do you think you're going to learn from the tapes that you can't learn from the transcripts?

NORMAN: The tapes will backup - will either justify what has been - the transcript say, or they won't. What's wrong with provide -

HUNT: Do you think that they actually tampered with the transcripts? Is that what you're saying?

NORMAN: I have - we have no idea until we get them. They haven't. That's what Attorney General Garland refuses to turn over. He - you know, all he - it's very simple, turn the - turn the tape over and so we can see if it matches with the transcripts. It either does or it doesn't. And that's the ironic -

HUNT: Do you think that you have the votes in the - in the full House to hold Garland in contempt?

NORMAN: Oh, I have no idea. We'll see what the evidence - we'll have testimony today that will probably last six to eight hours. You have a Democratic witness. You have a Republican witness, James Comer, or it may be Jim Jordan, but one of the two will present what their finding is. But it's very simple, turn over the tapes that will either validify the transcripts or they won't, and let us see it.

HUNT: Congressman, I want to talk politics with you for a little while. Your state, of course, has famously sharp-elbowed, to put it politely, I would say, politics. Nancy Mace, congresswoman who voted to oust Kevin McCarthy, facing a primary challenge today. Could you underscore, clarify for me, who it is you're supporting in this primary? And do you think that Mace is going to hang on?

NORMAN: I hadn't come out on either side. I know both. I serve with Nancy. Catherine Templeton was head of dheck (ph), under Nikki Haley, who I like. I think Nancy will win this race. And - but I hadn't come out publicly for either one of them. I get involved in a lot of races, but on this particular one, I decided just to let the low country decide who they want and Nancy's got a track record and Catherine Templeton has a record of (INAUDIBLE). So, we'll see how it comes out.

HUNT: So, wait. So, why won't you endorse your college? You're not endorsing Nancy Mace. I mean that's pretty noteworthy, I mean as typically, you know, y'all incumbents usually stick together.

NORMAN: Well, I didn't come out against her either. I just said, let the voters decide. And, you know, the low countries has a lot of different issues that they're passionate about. And let them decide it. And, you know, I'm from the upstate and I did get involved - am involved with the Timmons Morgan race. I came out against William Timmons and - but on the Nancy Mace, I just decide to stay out of that.

HUNT: Fair.

Sir, before I let you go, we've heard president - former President Trump. Obviously, he has campaigned. We've heard him say earlier in this show that America is a declining nation. This is something that he talks about all the time.

The governor of Pennsylvania, which is a key swing state, he's a Democrat, but he had a different message about what he thinks Republican should be saying about America. I want you to listen to what Governor Shapiro said, and then I want to get your reaction on the other side.

Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. JOSH SHAPIRO (R-PA): All they hear from Donald Trump is a whole bunch of whining about this country. So, I got a message to Donald Trump and all his negativity and his whining, stops (EXPLETIVE DELETED) America. This is the greatest country on earth. And it's time that we all start acting like it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: I mean, I've got to say, sir, I'm a patriotic American. Do you - does he have a point?

NORMAN: President Trump, as does the American people, see what's happening to America. He is exactly right. Look at what's happening in this country. Talk to the average voter out there who is very upset with inflation. They're very upset with the 13 to 15 million illegals coming into this country. [06:55:01]

They're very upset with the crime.

HUNT: Would you still call us the greatest country on earth, as many politicians often have?

NORMAN: It once was the greatest country on earth.

HUNT: And it's not anymore?

NORMAN: We're in a rapid decline under the last three-and-a-half years of this Biden administration.

Pardon me.

HUNT: It's not anymore? I mean which - which country would you say is greater than the United States of America?

NORMAN: Well, unless we get our financials in order, unless we stopped spending and printing money, we'll - we cannot continue what we have been in the past, which is that shining city on the hill. And it's the direct result of the liberal policies that this administration has - continues to - to put - put the American people through. Immigration is leading the pack on this. It's - he's breaking the Constitution.

HUNT: All right.

NORMAN: He's destroying the values in this country. So - and I think the American people show that at the polls.

HUNT: All right. I still don't have the name of another country that's greater than the United States of America.

Congressman Ralph Northam - Norman, excuse me, Ralph Norman, thank you so much, sir, for being here. I really appreciate your time.

NORMAN: My pleasure.

HUNT: All right, let's turn now to this.

(VIDEO TAPE)

HUNT: Why wouldn't we talk about Taylor Swift when we can talk about Taylor Swift. She apparently has a new admirer in Donald Trump. In an interview for a forthcoming book about the former president, Trump raved about the pop star's looks, telling the writer, quote, "I think she's beautiful. Very beautiful. I find her very beautiful. I think she's liberal. She probably doesn't like Trump. I hear she's very talented. I think she's very beautiful, actually. Unusually beautiful."

Trump, however, clearly seemed unable to forget his bad blood with Swift over her 2020 endorsement of Joe Biden and throwing into question her political beliefs that, "she is liberal, or is it just an act?," he asked during the interview. "She's legitimately liberal? It's not an act? It surprises me that a country star can be successful being liberal."

OK. Meghan.

HAYS: I mean, I think its creepy the way he continues to talk about how pretty women are that are significantly younger in age. Very, very much younger. But that being said, I think that he doesn't want to upset the Swifties. I think we all know what happens when that - when we awake a giant of the Swifties. But I think it's very bizarre.

HUNT: I mean, look, part of why we're talking about her, and, Matt, I mean, you know, disagree with me if you want to, but she is actually probably the one celebrity I think that actually has the power to move a significant number of votes, right?

GORMAN: Probably right. Yes. I think it's a matter of now whether she would ever want to get involved. I think in 2020, 2016, where I think - we talked about this a couple of weeks ago, different time for celebrities to inject themselves into politics, become political actors. Very different now. And I'll tell you, Donald Trump, Taylor Swift, like, it's like their page clicks like big bang, like massive forces coming together for this explosion of page clicks and views.

HUNT: Why do you think we're doing this TV show.

GORMAN: I'm all for it. I'm all for it. But, yes.

HAYS: I just don't think she needs it like outwardly involved. I don't think she needs to go out and be like, I support Joe Biden. She already did that.

And then also in her documentary, she's already like said where she stands on a lot of issues.

GORMAN: Yes.

HAYS: And like went to her family and said - I mean, so I don't think anyone's questioning where she stands politically here, but -

GORMAN: I'm not surprised. Yes.

HAYS: Yes. So, I mean, I think it kind of - I don't think she needs to outwardly get involved.

BALL: But I think that like Donald Trump, as like a celebrity pundit, right, like a celebrity handicapper, he - he is really encapsulating sort of where she stands in like the firmament of sort of, you know, pop culture, right?

HUNT: Yes.

BALL: He clearly has spent more time looking at her than listening to her. She hasn't been a country star for a long time, as my Swiftie daughter could certainly tell you.

HUNT: Yes. BALL: But the idea that like people don't necessarily see her as a political figure. And that's why a potential endorsement for her is so powerful, right, because to her legions of fans who just love her no matter what, the things that she says are - can resonate outside that political sphere. And that's why I think she does have the power to potentially move votes is, even though she does have this history of endorsed pressing liberal politicians and taking liberal positions, she is not, I think, pigeonholed as just sort of, you know, the Hollywood liberal, liberal celebrity. And so she's able to speak in an authentic way to her following.

GORMAN: It hearkens back to a funny time where Donald Trump was on Twitter like talking about Robert Patents (ph) and Kristen Stewart (ph)

BALL: Remember that. Yes.

GORMAN: Like ten years ago. Remember this. Like, is very much like the page six New York celebrity gossip world he had spent 30 years in. So, this is almost and in a way like a very pure version of Donald Trump like gossiping about celebrities.

BALL: Totally.

HUNT: Yes, no, it's the - it's the Donald Trump Maggie Haberman has been covering for decades in New York.

GORMAN: Yes. Yes. Yes, absolutely. Yes.

HUNT: All right, I will leave you with this.

(VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Oh, like she's still got it. Courtney Cox letting the world know she still has the moves that she showed off in Bruce Springsteen's video for "Dancing in the Dark." The "Friends" star joining a social media trend where kids ask their parents to show them how they danced in the 1980s. Cox famously appeared in Springsteen's 1984 music video, jumping on stage to boogie with The Boss.

Molly Ball, has your daughter made you do this yet?

BALL: No, thank God.

[07:00:00]

HUNT: Could you - like, are you better, worse than - wait, wait, wait, let's put Courtney back. Where's Courtney and her dancing. There she - yes, there she is.

BALL: I mean, honestly, that I think I could do.

HUNT: Yes.

BALL: That might be the limit of my abilities, but that I could do.

HUNT: I mean I feel like I could do that too.

BALL: I mean I wouldn't look as good as Coutney Cox though.

HUNT: I wouldn't want to do it in public, but, you know -

BALL: I'm not doing it on TikTok that's for sure.

HUNT: I sure as hell am not doing that either.

All right, thanks, guys, I very much appreciate your time today.

HAYS: Of course.

HUNT: Thanks for all - to all of you for joining us. I'm Kasie Hunt. Don't go anywhere. "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.