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Legal Brief Unsealed In Trump Election Interference Case; Walz, Vance Clean Up Debate Remarks At Rallies; Israel Vows "Very Strong" Response To Iran Missile Attack. Aired 5:30-6a ET

Aired October 03, 2024 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[05:31:18]

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: All right, 5:30 here on the East Coast. A live look at New York City on this Thursday morning. Good morning, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. It's wonderful to have you with us.

Federal prosecutors laying out the most extensive case yet against Donald Trump in a new legal brief regarding his alleged efforts to overturn his defeat in the 2020 election. The 165-page document coming in response to the Supreme Court's ruling that presidents have immunity for official acts. Trump's lawyers argued that prosecuting a president for their official acts is incompatible with our constitutional structure.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN SAUER, ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: The implications of the court's decision here extend far beyond the facts of this case. Could President George W. Bush have been sent to prison for obstructing an official proceeding or allegedly lying to Congress to induce war in Iraq? Could President Obama be charged with murder for killing U.S. citizens abroad by drone strike?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Trump himself has repeatedly said that presidents would be "impotent" without broad legal protections.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And I feel that as a president you have to have immunity.

You're going to have to give the president -- you're going to have to allow a president -- any president to have immunity so that president can act and do what he feels and what his group of advisers feel is the absolute right thing.

Presidential immunity is very powerful. Presidential immunity is imperative.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: The special counsel's new filing arguing that the alleged crimes were committed by Trump, the candidate, not Trump, the president.

Prosecutors writing Trump "...extensively used private actors and his campaign infrastructure to attempt to overturn the election results and operated in a private capacity as a candidate for office."

Joining me now, criminal defense attorney and CNN legal analyst, Joey Jackson. Joey, good morning to you. Thank you so much for being here.

There are some new specific details in this report that we didn't know before, like exactly what Trump said when he was told that Mike Pence was in danger. "So what," was what he said. But from a broad perspective many of the contours of this already known.

The question here -- what Jack Smith's imperative was is to lay out an argument that Donald Trump was acting in a private capacity; not acting in his capacity as President of the United States.

Do you think Jack Smith accomplished that?

JOEY JACKSON, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, CRIMINAL DEFENSE ATTORNEY, FORMER PROSECUTOR (via Webex by Cisco): So, Kasie, I do. Good morning to you, right?

So remember what Jack Smith had to do -- the special counsel -- is he had to repurpose this. He had to really put together something that would demonstrate that it was in conformity with what the Supreme Court ruling said. The Supreme Court ruling said the president had broad immunity.

People would have thought that this case would have then died, right? Why? Because so many of the activities described in the initial set of circumstances -- the indictment -- according to the Supreme Court nothing to see here.

Can't use state of mind of the president. Can't use what he talks about with the Department of Justice. Can't use the tweets. Can't use a number of other things.

So in repurposing this what then the special counsel had to do was say listen, we're not talking about official duties. We're not talking about someone who was acting in their official capacity. We're talking about someone who was running for office. That is not acting as the president. That is acting as the candidate, says Jack Smith.

Conversations with the Vice President of the United States -- you would think, Kasie, they would be off limits. Why? Hey, he's the vice president. No. Jack Smith -- he's his running mate, and as his running mate, again, private conduct with respect to what he was discussing about really permitting fraud against the election.

[05:35:00] All the activities relating the various states that were in dispute -- Arizona, Pennsylvania, Michigan -- you name it, right? All of those activities -- that was private (INAUDIBLE). And by the way, the president has no role with respect to that.

And finally, as it related to January 6 and the leadup to January 6, this was -- these were activities, right, that dealt with you acting privately to get the election -- to win an election not for president.

So in answering your question, I think in repurposing this and really indicating what the proof and evidence will be, it will be challenged, yes. There will be a response from the president's team. It will go to the Supreme Court again. But I think it was effective in laying out the evidence and in indicating why it's in conformity with the Supreme Court opinion.

HUNT: So I was -- that was my next question to you. I mean, obviously, we're just 33 days, I believe, from Election Day, November 5.

What else are we going to see unfold here because there is also this question of norms -- what the Justice Department does and typically doesn't do this close to an election? What do you make of this, and how do you see this playing out in that next critical window before people vote?

JACKSON: Yeah. I think there will be a lot of pressure potentially on the Justice Department not to move forward or continue to move forward until after the election for a number of reasons. Number one, would it be deemed political, right? Number two, do they have an obligation because of that political sort of singe to keep it out of public view until after the election?

And so whether or not there is more to be said on this during that period of time is an open question. I think potentially not. But I do think you'll see a response -- a forceful response from the Trump team. I do think you'll see continued litigation. I do think you'll see this go back to the Supreme Court of the United States.

A lot, Kasie, will depend upon the election. If the president wins -- the former president wins the election, there will be nothing to see here, for sure. He will pardon himself. This will be over.

If he doesn't, there's a lot of answering to do with respect to what's contained in that filing and what it does in terms of conforming with the Supreme Court opinion, which in my view it does, and with regard to accountability in terms of an actual trial and in actually him sitting to hear the evidence and for a jury to make a determination as to whether he's guilty.

HUNT: All right, Joey Jackson for us this morning. Sir, always grateful to have you. Thank you so much for being on.

JACKSON: Thanks, Kasie.

HUNT: All right. Forty-three million people tuned in to watch the vice presidential debate between Tim Walz and J.D. Vance earlier this week, and both candidates spent the day after their big night touting a win in the debate. Some CNN snap polling shows an almost 50-50 split on who viewers thought won.

And while claiming victory they also took time to try to clean up some of their weaker moments from the night, like J.D. Vance's answer or non-answer regarding who won the 2020 election, and Walz's response about when he actually traveled to China in 1989.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why didn't you answer the question last night during the debate about who won the 2020 presidential election?

SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), U.S. VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well look, here's the simple reason. The media is obsessed with talking about the election of four years ago. I'm focused on the election of 33 days from now.

GOV. TIM WALZ, (D) VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Look, I have my dates wrong. I was in Hong Kong, in China, in 1989. I speak like everybody else speaks. I need to be clearer; I will tell you that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right, joining us now to discuss, Reese Gorman, political reporter for NOTUS. Reese, good morning. Nice to see you.

REESE GORMAN, POLITICAL REPORTER, NOTUS: Good morning. Good to see you.

HUNT: So the numbers are down from previous vice presidential debates but still, a pretty significant number of Americans did tune in to watch these two men.

What did you make of how they are trying to spin their own performances? I will say most -- even Democrats I talk to privately will acknowledge they think that Vance performed pretty well.

GORMAN: Yeah.

HUNT: They don't really want to say that out loud --

GORMAN: No.

HUNT: -- in public, but it is what it is.

GORMAN: That's kind of the sense I'm getting too is that people do think that Vance performed somewhat better than Tim Walz. But the thing that Democrats are telling me that they kind of feel good about is that they did get this one moment of Vance kind of refusing to say whether or not Trump won or lost the 2020 election.

And the spin on it is funny too because it was like -- I mean, Trump brings this up himself quite a bit, too. It's not just he -- they like to blame the media for talking about it a lot, but this is also -- I mean, Trump regularly brings up at rallies here and there.

And then also, Republicans are also kind of shocked, and Democrats I've talked to, that Tim Walz was not more prepared for this Tiananmen Square question. I mean, this was something that CNN reported. Literally, he was on a radio show in 2019 and when he said I wasn't there for Tiananmen Square.

HUNT: Um-hum, yeah.

GORMAN: And this is just like -- so he clearly was going to be asked about this question, and he did not care to answer it.

HUNT: Right. It seemed almost like a set-up --

GORMAN: Yeah.

HUNT: -- ahead of the -- of the debate for sure.

Let's talk briefly also about what we've learned. The Guardian has reported out excerpts of Melania Trump's new book --

GORMAN: Um-hum.

HUNT: -- where she stands in opposition to Donald Trump. But the write this. And again, this isn't confirmed by CNN. These are excerpts that were obtained. "It's imperative to guarantee that women have autonomy in deciding their preference of having children based on their own convictions, free from any intervention or pressure from the government." And there's more as well.

[05:40:10]

Part of me actually things the campaign may think that this is useful to them --

GORMAN: Um-hum.

HUNT: -- considering that they have tried -- I mean, we saw J.D. Vance on the VP debate stage --

GORMAN: Yes.

HUNT: -- trying to kind of not necessarily soften his position but certainly soften his approach, rhetoric, and tone around this.

GORMAN: Yes.

HUNT: She has not been out the trail.

GORMAN: Um-hum.

HUNT: What do you make of this coming out now?

GORMAN: I do think that it's definitely something that the campaign will look at and kind of be like we -- I mean, they're having an issue with these voters right now because this is something -- I mean, while Trump is saying that it's up to the states, some of the states are still banning abortion. So that's still an unpopular position among voters.

And so I do think that this is something that -- I mean, they could point to now and kind of use to say, like, look, the president's wife -- the former president's wife, rather, does support abortion. Does support not having restrictions on women's bodies. And so that is something they could point to.

But also, I think on the flip side, too, I mean, they've already had some trouble with the pro-life community. I mean, leaving --

HUNT: Um-hum.

GORMAN: -- abortion out of the RNC platform of the Republican -- this year, which was the first husband left out in decades. And also, people getting upset at Trump's position for kind of punting on multiple abortion positions throughout this whole entire campaign and saying that oh, I'm not going to -- I would not support a federal abortion ban. And recently coming out saying he would veto one, actually.

So they're also having trouble with the pro-life community as well at the moment.

HUNT: Yeah -- no -- for sure.

Finally, Reese, before I let you go, we learned this morning breaking here at CNN at 5:00 a.m. that Liz Cheney is going to campaign with Kamala Harris in Wisconsin in the town that's the birthplace of the Republican Party. I think a lot of people have been wondering what Cheney was going to do in this election cycle.

GORMAN: Um-hum.

HUNT: How do you think that cuts?

GORMAN: I think it -- I think it depends.

I mean, at this point I think a lot of people -- I mean, you pretty much -- I mean, I don't how much Liz Cheney would necessarily sway some undecided voters but I do think that it is a sign, too, just of more people that are Republican that were at one point supporters of Trump that are now no longer supporting him, and this is just kind of a pattern that it shows. It shows this kind of broader pattern where, like, people who served relatively close --

HUNT: Um-hum.

GORMAN: -- to Trump and Liz Cheney was in House Republican leadership. And now that they don't support him anymore.

HUNT: Yeah. And, of course -- I mean, my big question is about people that voted for Nikki Haley.

GORMAN: Yeah. HUNT: Whether this helps given them a permission structure to vote Democratic or it doesn't.

Reese Gorman for us this morning. Thank you very much.

GORMAN: Thank you so much.

HUNT: I really appreciate it.

All right, straight ahead here on CNN THIS MORNING Israel vowing to strike back against Iran. And there's growing concern that they will attack nuclear sites despite President Biden's stated opposition.

Plus, two favorites ousted by underdogs in the American League. The wildcard playoffs. The Bleacher Report is next.

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[05:47:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAEL PRIME MINISTER (through translator): We are in the middle of a tough war against Iran's axis of evil, which seeks to destroy us. This will not happen because we will stand together. And with God's help we will win together. We will return our abductees in the south. We will return our residents in the north. We will guarantee the eternity of Israel.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Anxious hours in the Middle East. The world waiting to see how Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will retaliate against Iran for its deadly missile attack earlier this week.

Overnight, Israeli airstrikes hit downtown Beirut, Lebanon killing at least six people. There are growing concerns that Netanyahu may direct his military to target Iran's nuclear sites next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REPORTER: Do you support an attack on Iran's nuclear sites by Israel?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The answer is no. They have a right to respond, but they should respond proportionally.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right, let's bring in Joel Rubin, former deputy assistant Secretary of State for legislative affairs in the Obama administration. Joel, good morning.

JOEL RUBIN, FORMER DEPUTY ASSISTANT SECRETARY OF STATE FOR LEGISLATIVE AFFAIRS, OBAMA ADMINISTRATION, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Good morning, Kasie.

HUNT: I was a little bit surprised to see how direct President Biden was there about this.

RUBIN: Yeah.

HUNT: This does seem to now be the fulcrum question whether or not they are going to strike Iranian nuclear sites in Iranian territory as retaliation for what happened.

How do you understand the political debate around this that's going to ultimately drive the decision?

RUBIN: Yeah, this is the big question right now. Will Israel respond tactically or strategically? And if they make a strategic move -- that means going after the nuclear sites. And the political debate here clearly is one of hold your breath until the election in November. And so that means I believe that, frankly, you're not going to see much daylight regardless of what Israel chooses to do between how the United States responds and how the Israelis execute their plans.

HUNT: But if they were to go after these sites wouldn't that put daylight between the U.S. and Israel immediately now?

RUBIN: That would put daylight -- that would put daylight. But you're also going to see, frankly, with Israel a decision that they're going to make on their own for their own security. And the question then, of course, is will the U.S. get dragged into it or not. And I think that's where the president is trying to tap the brakes on it.

But in Israel -- and this is -- the big picture in Israel right now is that these are heady days. What you have across the border in Israel is a significant amount of support for the prime minister that we have not seen in years. His poll numbers are going up. He's increased the size of his coalition. Outside voices who have opposed him are saying he should go for these nuclear sites.

And this is -- this is -- we're coming up on October 7 -- anniversary of one year. And I think that's what the Israeli leadership is weighing right now. Is this the moment to go strategically? But there could be significant fallout.

Nonetheless, the United States -- we are committed to supporting Israel's security and defense, and that means like what we saw over the last couple of days -- shooting down missiles in the response if Iran does choose to do another one.

HUNT: How do you think the fact that we are 33 days to our --

RUBIN: Yeah.

HUNT: -- election affects the decision-making in Tel Aviv?

[05:50:00]

RUBIN: I think it is absolutely part of the decision matrix. It's not just about what can Israel hit militarily inside Iran; it's what will the global response be? And clearly, with the president right now in the saddle, in control,

watching this, he is giving enough support to Israel that Israel feels that it has a window now. And that's what the prime minister is calculating. Can he have this window now where there will not be much political pushback in the United States against any action?

You know, when Israel chose -- when Netanyahu chose to be aggressive into Lebanon -- in southern Lebanon with the pager attack and then the bombing of Nasrallah, there was no daylight. And I think that's sort of the test. And he passed -- from his perspective, he passed that test. And I think he's going to continue to view this as an area where there will not be any daylight.

HUNT: Yeah.

Briefly, do you think they're going to do it? Do you think they're going to strike Iranian nuclear sites?

RUBIN: I think there's a huge temptation to go and do it, but the caution is actually being effective, and that's the -- that's the other critical moment here.

There was an attack by Israel a couple of weeks ago in Syria where they went in and they blew up a major missile production --

HUNT: Yeah.

RUBIN: -- facility, but they had to go on the ground.

So it's not just a simple throw a couple of bombs in and it's over dynamic. And that's where the security planners in Tel Aviv are going to be looking at that and saying if we want to be effective and do this, we need to really go on the ground and we need to be much more aggressive and assertive. And that's where they may get delayed not because of American politics but more because of the operational difficulties associated with attacking those sites.

HUNT: Yeah, very interesting.

All right, Joel Rubin for us this morning. Joel, very grateful to have you.

RUBIN: Thanks, Kasie.

HUNT: Thank you very much.

All right, time now for sports. It was a tough morning for a lot of baseball fans, including me -- because I, as you know, am an Orioles fan.

Andy Scholes has this morning's Bleacher Report. Andy, good morning.

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Right there with you, Kasie.

HUNT: I'm so sorry. SCHOLES: I'm an Astros fan. So the Orioles, Astros, Braves all swept

out of the wildcard round. And my Astros -- they will not be going to the ALCS for the first time in eight years. So it's just a sad morning -- a sad, sad morning.

HUNT: I feel sorry for you, Andy, I will say. I have separate feelings about the Houston Astros, and I like to keep them to myself.

SCHOLES: Yeah.

HUNT: Tell us what happened.

SCHOLES: All right, anyway, let's go through it all.

So, you know, the Tigers, though, Kasie, they continue to be one of the best stories in all of baseball. You know, they closed the season on a 31-13 run just to make it to the postseason. Andy Ibanez coming through with the huge pinch hit. Three RBI double to give Detroit the lead in the eighth inning. They would hold on to win this one by a final of 5-2.

The Tigers are the fourth team in history to win a postseason series after being 10 games out of a playoff spot in August. The other three teams to do it all went on to win the World Series.

And this moment was certainly extra sweet for Tigers manager A.J. Hinch who was fired by the Astros after the sign-stealing scandal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

A.J. HINCH, MANAGER, DETROIT TIGERS: Listen, I'm not sure who but somebody let the Tigers get hot.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: All right. So elsewhere, the Orioles were trying to force a game-three against the Royals. A big spot in the bottom of the fifth. Bases loaded for Baltimore. Colton Cowser -- he's going to get hit in the hand here, but because he swung, it's a strikeout. The Orioles would get nothing out of that bases loaded.

Then tied at one in the sixth, Bobby Witt Jr., who had the game- winning hit in game one, comes through again. The RBI infield single.

The Royals then would hold on to win 2-1. They're on to the division series for the first time since 2015 where they'll face the Yankees.

The Orioles, meanwhile, have lost 10-straight postseason games. Sorry, Kasie.

The Padres, meanwhile, closing out the Braves last night. San Diego getting six-straight two-out hits in the second inning. The big home was a double from Manny Machado. The Padres became the first team in postseason history to record a stretch of six consecutive hits while hitting for a cycle among those six hits. The Braves -- they tried to rally but fell short. San Diego would end

up winning 5-4. The record sellout crowd of more than 47,000 were chanting "Beat L.A.!" at the end. The Padres will face the Dodgers starting on Saturday.

The Brewers -- they were the only team to survive last night. Twenty- year-old phenom Jackson Chourio hits a tying home run here in the eighth. It was his second home run of the night.

Then pinch hitter Garrett Mitchell would send the home crowd into a frenzy as he got ahold of this one for a two-run home run.

The Brewers would end up winning this one 5-3. The first time ever they've won a postseason game when trailing entering the eighth inning. They had been 0-26. The decisive game three of that one is going to be tonight at 7:00 Eastern. The winner will face Philadelphia on Saturday.

All right, and finally, the Nuggets arriving in Abu Dhabi for their preseason opening tomorrow. And well, Russell Westbrook and company did a little bit of team bonding, riding some camels around. They seemed to be handling those camels pretty and having some good times. The Nuggets -- they're going to face the Celtics for two games on that trip.

[05:55:00]

You've got to be careful on those camels. You don't want to fall off and hurt your wrist right before the season, right, Kasie?

HUNT: So is this the first time we've had camels on the Bleacher Report because --

SCHOLES: Anytime athletes ride camels you've really got to show it.

HUNT: -- (INAUDIBLE) to see it. You do.

All right, Andy. Sorry about your Astros.

SCHOLES: Sorry about your Orioles.

HUNT: Better luck next year.

SCHOLES: Yeah.

HUNT: Thank you. See you soon.

SCHOLES: All right.

HUNT: All right. In our next hour on CNN THIS MORNING evidence unsealed. A new filing details then-Vice President Mike Pence's delicate dance to try to sidestep President Trump who was, of course, urging him to overturn the 2020 election.

Plus, negotiations at a standstill as dockworkers hit the picket line for a third-straight day. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HAROLD DAGGETT, PRESIDENT, ILA: I'm not asking for the world. They know what I want. They know what I want. And if they don't -- well, then I have to go into the street, and we have to fight for what we rightfully deserve.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL)

HUNT: It's Thursday, October 3. Right now on CNN THIS MORNING --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: They should have never allowed the information to be -- to come before the public.

(END VIDEO CLIP)