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CNN This Morning
Judge Unseals New Evidence in Trump Case; John Bolton is Interviewed about Israel; Melania Trump Defends Women; Vance and Walz Hit Campaign Trail. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired October 03, 2024 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[06:30:00]
KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: Plus, more from special counsel Jack Smith's latest filing outlining never before seen evidence against Donald Trump in his 2020 election subversion case.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He works for Kamala and he works for Joe. This was a weaponization of government, and that's why it was released 30 days before the election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
HUNT: All right, turning back now to our lead story.
The federal judge in Donald Trump's election interference case, unsealing the latest filing from special counsel Jack Smith. The 165- page document providing the American people with the clearest picture yet of the prosecution's evidence against Trump less than five weeks from Election Day.
[06:35:04]
Prosecutors allege that Trump engaged in a criminal conspiracy to obstruct the certification of his defeat in the 2020 election. The crux of the special counsel's new filing, that Donald Trump undertook those actions as a presidential candidate and not in his capacity as president. The special counsel wrote this, quote, "at its core, the defendant's scheme was a private one; he extensively used private actors and his campaign infrastructure to attempt to overturn the election results and operated in a private capacity as a candidate for office," end quote.
This latest filing made necessary by a July ruling from the Supreme Court, which found that presidents have sweeping immunity for official acts.
Trump's lawyers arguing before the court for a broad interpretation of immunity. One with vast implications for presidential power.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUSTICE SONIA SOTOMAYOR, SUPREME COURT: If the president decides that his rival is a corrupt person and he orders the military or orders someone to assassinate him, is that within his official acts that - for which he can get immunity?
JOHN SAUER, ATTORNEY FOR DONALD TRUMP: It would depend on hypothetical, but we can see that could well be an official act.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Judge Tanya Chutkan now tasked with determining whether Trump's alleged crimes are protected by that ruling. And she will also need to decide how much more evidence to make public before Election Day.
Our panel returns.
And we were talking in the break about what was actually necessary here. And I wanted to bring in something that Chutkan said earlier this fall, in early September. She - there was a hearing to determine some next steps. And she said this, quote, "the electoral process and the timing of the election is not relevant here. This court is not concerned with the electoral schedule." And we do know she could potentially make more evidence in this public.
But we do know that the timing of these actions matters very much. I mean, Karen, you remember what happened in the Hillary Clinton campaign.
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Don't I. Don't I just. Absolutely.
Look, I think what's different in this case is, this process has been, and we've said, been moving along at a pretty fast clip. And it does seem that the judge has been very committed to keeping the process moving along. There's obviously been delays based on motions filed.
HUNT: She wanted a trial to start on super Tuesday.
FINNEY: She sure did.
ANNIE LINSKEY, REPORTER, "WALL STREET JOURNAL": Yes.
FINNEY: And she had, you know, to the quote you just made, she - right, she doesn't really care about the election. She cares about the case. And given the delays around some of the filings from the Trump team, here we are.
Look, it's not 11 days before. So (INAUDIBLE) -
HUNT: Which is when, of course, that Comey letter came down.
FINNEY: Right. Exactly. Right. Which is -
HUNT: Which is what we're talking in code about. Yes. FINNEY: Yes. Yes. But it's my understanding, and obviously we would
need to consult one of our legal eagles, but this is - I was asking yesterday, is this something - is this extraordinary or is this something typical? Does this normally happen? It can. And it does not - my - my understanding is, it's not that this is so out of the ordinary to have happen.
MIKE DUBKE, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, TRUMP ADMINISTRATION: It - it is unusual though. I - I - I - I would defer to them. It's -
HUNT: Well, I mean, in fairness, we've never encountered this as a nation before -
DUBKE: Absolutely. Yes, right.
FINNEY: Yes, right. Given that we're in, you know -
HUNT: A former president that, you know, didn't call off the mob on January 6th and then ran again for president.
DUBKE: But even - even if we look at the 11 days before the 2016 election, I mean that was - that was an individual making whatever decision he was making.
This is - this is an official agent of DOJ as a federal judge, not adhering to -
HUNT: Well, but, wait a second, federal judges are not agents at DOJ, right?
DUBKE: Well, OK. I -
HUNT: I mean DOJ is arguing - they're - she's decide - right? I mean she's -
DUBKE: That is fair. No, no, totally fair. I shouldn't have used the word agent. But she is well aware of what DOJ's advice and guidance is on releasing information before an election. And this, to me, is a little bit unusual, not just a little bit, a lot a bit unusual for them to do this 30 some days out.
But at the end of the day, this, you know, as we've talked about, all these court cases are going to hurt Trump. This is a bad situation for him. His - his favorability rating was probably higher in May when he was in trial in New York than it is now. And so, this is - this is what I was speaking to earlier. The optics of this act is bad for democracy, but might be helpful for Donald Trump.
ZOLAN KANNO-YOUNGS, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: You know, even given this sensitivity around the timing of this, I think it will be really interesting to see how both of the campaigns actually respond to this filing.
For - for years now you've had sort of the White House and then Biden campaign sort of walk a delicate line where they wanted to tell the public that there is distance between an independent Justice Department and the White House, particularly as these cases were - were - were proceeding.
At the same time, you know - so it will be interesting to see what the Harris campaign does. Do they spotlight this?
At the same time, the Trump campaign, to your point, at times actually built support and got momentum when some of these different updates happened in these cases.
HUNT: Certainly (INAUDIBLE) -
(CROSS TALK)
LINSKEY: I think - I think - I just think, you know, we're in the very end of an election here.
[06:40:01]
I think with a small number of independent voters who are trying to decide what to do, when they start thinking about January 6th, even if there's not that much that's really new or revelatory in this filing, I think it has that echo of James Comey's letter, that yet again you're thinking about -
DUBKE: Yes.
LINSKEY: The very thing that is a weakness for this candidate. And I don't think you want him - I mean I think for the Trump people they just cannot be pleased with this. And -
FINNEY: And that's what Trump did in 2016, right? He - he kept saying, oh, if she's elected it's going to be chaos.
LINSKEY: Right.
FINNEY: There are going to be lawsuits. They're going to - ironically. It's going to be so much chaos if it's her. And I do think it reminds people of the chaos of when Donald Trump was president. And I think he's different. Back then, way back in early this year, which seems like a year ago now, he was so much more disciplined. He would come out on the court, right, and he was - it was maybe one minute he would stay on script, then he would leave.
He is now off the chain, as the kids say, and talking about people coming in and slicing your neck. And - but I'm just saying, he's becoming increasingly agitated and unnerved it seems on the campaign trail. I don't think this is good - for people who are trying to decide if they're going to vote for him, I don't think it's going to make them feel more sympathetic. That's where -
DUBKE: I'm being really respectful -
FINNEY: Yes.
DUBKE: But we have an October of chaos.
FINNEY: Yes. DUBKE: We have storms. We have strikes. We have strife.
FINNEY: Yes.
DUBKE: We live in chaos right now, and that's in the Biden-Harris administration.
HUNT: Yes, I will say, some -
FINNEY: Well, he doesn't control the weather.
DUBKE: No, I thought I got to -
FINNEY: You did. You did.
HUNT: No, it's - it's one of those things, you know, if somebody -
FINNEY: Good call.
HUNT: Somebody was wondering out loud, what are we going to - there's no more debates. There's no more official things. What are we going to cover in the final week. I - I just wanted to say -
FINNEY: Yes, don't ask.
DUBKE: Who is that person?
HUNT: I just wanted to say that there's always something in October. You just may not know what it is.
DUBKE: Always something. Always something.
HUNT: All right, panel, thank you guys. We're going to - you guys will be back in just a couple minutes.
Coming up here on CNN THIS MORNING, former Trump national security adviser, John Bolton, joins us live. We'll ask him about the White House's call for restraint as Israel weighs its next move against Iran.
Plus, J.D. Vance and Tim Walz wasted no time returning to the campaign stump, trading barbs over debate night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We, of course had a debate last night. A vice presidential debate. I thought it went pretty well.
GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Not bad for a football coach. Not bad.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:46:20]
HUNT: All right, this morning, several countries preparing to evacuate their nationals from Lebanon as the region awaits Israel's response to Iran's missile attacks. The Israeli military warning that it has the means to, quote, "strike any target in the Middle East, end quote.
Overnight, Israeli airstrikes hit downtown Beirut, an area that's not been struck since the 2006 war, and at least nine people were killed. As Israel's war cabinet weighs its next move, President Biden is making clear he supports the country's right to respond, but with a key exception.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you support an attack on Iran's nuclear sites by Israel?
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The answer is no.
They have a right to respond, but they should respond proportionally.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right, joining us now, former U.N. ambassador and former national security advisor under President Trump, John Bolton.
Sir, thank you so much for being on the show this morning.
I saw that you said earlier this week that you think that Israel should strike Iran's nuclear weapons program. You heard the president there saying that, no, they should not do that.
What's your reaction to him saying that?
JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Well, there are two things wrong with what he said. Number one, that he said it. Even if that's his opinion, why do you tell Israel's adversary, and, by the way, America's adversary, in Tehran, what you're not going to do. Let them worry about it. You can make the decision, but telling them what you're giving up or what you - you hope the Israelis give up is just a failure of diplomacy 101.
And second, the position itself as wrong. Israel's response should not be proportionate. I don't know what the word proportionate means here. It's - when - when Japan attacked the United States at Pearl Harbor, should our response have been proportionate to seek an equal number - sink an equal number of battleships that Japan had sunk? I mean, it just doesn't make any sense in this context.
Deterrence has obviously failed. Israel followed Biden's command really back in April that they not respond effectively to that attack by ballistic cruise missiles and drones. I think Israel fired one missile at one missile launching site. Obviously didn't deter Iran in the slightest. So, the way you establish deterrence, re-establish it in this case, is by responding disproportionately. And the most important threat that Israel and the wider world face from Iran is its nuclear proliferation program.
HUNT: Sir, do you think that the - to - you mentioned - you say deterrence has failed. What is the bigger threat to the U.S. though? I mean the concerns about the wider escalation of this war are potentially very serious. Clearly that's what the administration is trying to avoid.
How - how do you see what you're suggesting not inflaming the situation further?
BOLTON: Well, I think the administration is paralyzed by this fear of wider war. Israel, and really the western world, have been in a wider war since October the 7th on multiple fronts. The Houthis in Yemen are now attacking Israel, as well as closing the Suez Canal-Red Sea passage. The - the -- Hamas attacked out of Gaza last October 7th. Hezbollah has been rocketing northern Israel since October the 8th. And Iran itself has engaged, as well as the Shia militias, in Iraq and Syria. So, the wider war is already here.
But let's look at it from the point of view of Israel and the United States. Israel first. Can you assure Israel that the next time Iran fires a ballistic missile from its territory, that under the nose cone of that missile there's not going to be a nuclear weapon.
[06:50:11]
Iran's nuclear program, as I said before, is the biggest threat. Israel is a small country. Six, eight, 10 nuclear weapons, there's not much of a country left.
So, ask yourself the question this way, is the threat of nuclear extinction a bigger or a smaller threat than a wider war?
HUNT: Sir, we are, of course, just 33 days from the presidential election. And I know you have said that you plan to vote for Dick Cheney, to - to write - write him in. Dick Cheney put out a statement saying that he is going to vote for Kamala Harris. His daughter, Liz Cheney, is going to campaign with her we learned this morning. He said, "as citizens, we each have a duty to put country above partisanship to defend our Constitution. That is why I will be casting my vote for Vice President Kamala Harris."
Does that sway you at all that the man that you say you think should be president is urging people to vote for Kamala Harris?
BOLTON: Well, it's caused me to reassess whether to vote for Dick. I mean I'm - I'm looking to vote for a conservative Republican. I certainly think Dick is a conservative Republican. If he were to win, you know, not much chance for that, I suppose, I don't think he'd put Kamala Harris in his cabinet.
I had originally thought in 2020 I'd write in Ronald Reagan to make the point even more effectively. And - and maybe that's what I'll do this time.
I am not going to vote for either Harris or Trump. Neither one are qualified to be president.
HUNT: Who do you think would be the better person to steward this conflict in the Middle East from an American perspective? I mean you have talked about the stakes. Would you rather see Kamala Harris in the Situation Room next year or Donald Trump?
BOLTON: You know, I don't want to see either one of them for - for different reasons to be sure. I don't think Kamala Harris has the requisite -
HUNT: Well, it's - it's going to be one, though. It's going to be one or the other.
BOLTON: Well, that - and - and they're both unacceptable to me. That's a matter of conscience on my part. I'm not going to choose between two unacceptable alternatives on the ground that one is less unacceptable than the other. Neither one meet the minimal test of whether they should be president to begin with.
I understand, obviously, one of them will win -
HUNT: Yes.
BOLTON: But I'm going to cast a protest vote. I don't like it, and I worry about the United States for the next four years, whoever wins.
HUNT: No, I mean, that's fair enough.
Who do - who do you think would be in Israel's interest? Which one of them?
BOLTON: I - I don't think you can tell. I mean, Donald Trump said yesterday, or maybe it was the day before, that this conflict between Iran and Israel is like two kids in a school yard fighting. And that's - that's about a typical Donald Trump assessment of a complex, international problem. Those who think he's going to be reflexively supportive of Israel really should think again.
HUNT: Really interesting.
All right, Ambassador John Bolton, very grateful to have you on the show this morning, sir. Thank you very much for being here.
BOLTON: Glad to do it. Thank you.
HUNT: All right, 52 minutes past the hour. Here's our morning roundup.
One of the doctors charged in "Friends" star Matthew Perry's death is now pleading guilty. Dr. Mark Chavez entered the plea this week. He faces up to ten years in prison. Chavez and others are accused of illegally dealing ketamine to Perry. Perry died in October of 2023 due to acute effects of the drug and his subsequent drowning.
Today, President Biden continues his Hurricane Helene response. He will tour damage in Florida and Georgia. Yesterday, he visited the Carolinas, flying over the damage, and later approving the deployment of active-duty troops to provide critical aid for western North Carolina. At least 191 people have died because of the storm.
Melania Trump sharing her thoughts on reproductive rights, just weeks ahead of the presidential election. And it is - seems to be at odds with the Republican Party's platform. "The Guardian" reports that in her new book she writes this, quote, "why should anyone other than the woman herself have the power to determine what she does with her own body? A woman's fundamental right of individual liberty to her own life grants her the authority to terminate her pregnancy if she wishes."
Do you - do you think, Mike, I mean, Melania Trump coming out there and saying this at this time, it's obviously very much at odds with the evangelical wing of the Republican Party, but it does potentially line up with where Trump and Vance seem to be trying to go here in the final days.
DUBKE: Well, Vance, two nights ago, talking about, we need to win back the trust of the American - the Republican Party needs to win back the trust of - of women and the American people on this issue.
So, yes, I mean it's a - it's a bag of mixed messages, that's for sure.
HUNT: Yes, she never weighs in.
FINNEY: But I think that's the intention -
DUBKE: Yes.
FINNEY: Again is to try to throw enough out there to obfuscate. And again, just go back to the actual record. He's the one who appointed the justices that overturned Roe v. Wade.
[06:55:01]
His record when it came to women's health as president was abysmal. Actually made it harder for poor women to access health care, let alone health care services for pregnant women.
HUNT: Well, and he did brag about appointing the justices that overturned Roe versus Wade.
FINNEY: (INAUDIBLE).
DUBKE: Sending the power back to the states, which is, again, a whole other part of this that we need to remember.
HUNT: All right, let's turn now to this. Tuesday night's vice presidential debate and the candidates clash that wasn't.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY FALLON, HOST, "TONIGHT SHOW WITH JIMMY FALLON": Yes, it was the craziest debate yet. They actually talked about policy. Yes, this debate turned out to be polite, friendly, and intimate. It was jarring. People were expecting a horror movie, but instead they got a Hallmark movie. They go, wait, are they falling in love? What's happening?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: It was an overall cordial vice presidential debate. But now with both Tim Walz and J.D. Vance back on the trail, I guess the gloves have come back off.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), VICE PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Because I just ask the simplest of all questions that - that every single American should be able to answer. I asked him if Donald Trump lost the 2020 election. He refused to answer.
SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Tim Walz said that he was friends with school shooters twice. And I said that was probably only the third or fourth dumbest comment Tim Walz made that night.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right, Zolan.
KENNO-YOUNGS: The difference between, you know, a debate without a crowd and speaking before a rally, right? You're going to see some of those niceties and that tone completely changed here. And you're also not going to see these candidates go into the policy deals like they did, you know, at the debate. You had them in the weeds at times, you know, in the debate on some of those policies. I don't think you're going to see that moving forward based off of what we've seen from these rallies. Now it's about sort of picking some of those different moments that can translate to viral clips. Sort of a verbal miscue, getting a fact wrong here. That's going to be what - what you're going to see them highlight moving forward.
HUNT: Annie, I - my - the thing that I keep turning over in my head is - and, you know, when I talk to - when I was talking to sources about how this was all going, there are a lot of people out there who didn't seem to have any question that they thought Tim Walz was a nice guy, right? Minnesota nice. But the J.D. Vance -
LINSKEY: Yes.
HUNT: Perhaps had some challenges in that department and that the fact that all the headlines coming out of it were, well, this was very cordial, they were so nice to each other -
LINSKEY: Yes.
HUNT: Ultimately benefit Vance at the end of the day.
LINSKEY: Yes, I think so. I mean you also have - not typically the stereotypes, but you had two Midwesterners debating. And that - it was a very different vibe between two -
HUNT: (INAUDIBLE) maintain Midwestern nice is not actually that nice. LINSKEY: That's true. That's true.
HUNT: (INAUDIBLE) it is.
LINSKEY: I mean Vance's people - I was texting with them during the debate. They were so happy with how it was going. And it was a contrast with how he has presented himself on the campaign trail. It was a very different Vance that showed up. It was a Vance that I think we kind of remember from when he was kind of pitching "Hillbilly Elegy" and sort of presenting himself as kind of a nice kid from the Midwest who can explain what's going on.
But I think really what I was thinking about coming out of this debate was not so much 2024, and I hate to say this, but 2028. And I think Vance really did himself a lot of favors for the next electron. Whereas Walz, I mean, I - you know, I think anybody - any - any Democrat who's thinking of running maybe in 2028 would have watched that and thought, OK, I think I could do a better job on the debate stage.
HUNT: Yes. Well, "The Wall Street Journal" editorial board, which was very much against having Vance be at the top of the ticket -
LINSKEY: Yes.
HUNT: Has - has now - now they have, today, it's "Vance sells Trump better than Trump." It's their headline.
FINNEY: Yes.
DUBKE: It's true.
FINNEY: I mean that's - no, please, you.
HUNT: Look at this.
DUBKE: I know, we're having such a -
FINNEY: Look at this kumbaya situation.
DUBKE: A really - so, I see these - but I see these headlines of saine (ph) washing (ph). Have you seen the line saine (ph) washing (ph).
HUNT: Uh-huh. Yes.
DUBKE: J.D. Vance and the saine (ph) washing (ph).
Look, he does make the case extremely well. And he did himself a favor. And I think for 99 of the 100 minutes that that went on before we got to that final bid, hands down J.D. Vance won that debate. But we all know that most Americans didn't watch it. And we're going to see these viral clips. And how they spin this in the next couple of days I think is what its going to determine 2028 and whether or not we think we've got. It matters.
HUNT: All right. FINNEY: And I think it's -
HUNT: Karen, I'm sorry, because we're running out of time -
FINNEY: That's OK.
HUNT: But you can weigh in on this, though. I really want to leave everybody with this.
Some might say it is the (INAUDIBLE) day of the year, while others might describe it as fetch (ph).
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On October 3rd he asked me what day it was.
It's October 3rd.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: It's October 3rd. And over the last two decades this day has become synonymous with - this is one of my favorite movies, the cold classic teen girl comedy, "Mean Girls" from that star studded cast, including Lindsay Lohan, Tina Fey, Rachel McAdams, and I'm not a regular mom, I'm a cool mom, Amy Poehler, to the iconic quotable lines.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: She doesn't even go here.
Glenn Coco. Fall for you Glenn Coco. You go, Glenn Coco.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
[07:00:04]
HUNT: We didn't get to see, your - stop trying to make fetch happen. This film about teenage girlhood withstands the test of time.
And it's now making its way to the stage. And it's going to be coming back to theaters. Earlier this year there was a musical remake of the story to hit the big screen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (singing): Don't be fooled by the pink. She is not playing dolls. She is stalking the halls for the thrill of -
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: I have to say, I'm a big fan of Rene Wrap (ph).
So, whether you're celebrating today with the jingle bell rock or practicing mathletes, just remember -
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On Wednesday we wear pink.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: I'm obviously not wearing pink because its Thursday. It's really too bad that it didn't occur on a Wednesday this year.
Anyway, happy Mean Girls Day to all who celebrate.
Thanks to our panel. Thanks to you for joining us. I'm Kasie Hunt. "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.
