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CNN This Morning
Kelly: Trump Demonstrated Fascist Tendencies; Biden on Trump: 'We've Got to Lock Him Up Politically'; Millions of Americans Experiencing Dry October. Aired 6-6:30a ET
Aired October 23, 2024 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: It's Wednesday, October 23. Right now on CNN THIS MORNING.
[05:59:55]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She's lazy as hell.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Thirteen days to go. Donald Trump bashing Kamala Harris on the trail, taking aim at her schedule with that insult.
Plus --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. TIM WALZ (D-MN), 2024 VICE-PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: Donald Trump said, "I need the kind of generals that Hitler had."
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: The Harris campaign looking to seize on a new report in the race's final days as the Trump campaign pushes back.
And --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Would you consider, if you won, and he's convicted, a pardon for former President Trump?
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES, 2024 PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: I'm not going to get into those hypotheticals.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Pardoning Trump. The vice president won't say whether she would pardon the former president if she wins.
And -- (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You've got to lock him up. Politically lock him up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Lock him up politically. President Biden's message for New Hampshire Democrats on the potential of a second Trump term.
All right, 6 a.m. here on the East Coast. A live look at tonight's stage for CNN's presidential town hall, featuring Kamala Harris, moderated by our own Anderson Cooper. It's going to take place in the critical battleground state of Pennsylvania, epicenter of it all.
Good morning, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. It's wonderful to have you with us.
Just 13 days until election day, and this morning a stark warning from Donald Trump's former chief of staff, the retired Marine Corps general John Kelly, about what a second Trump term would mean for America.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KELLY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF UNDER DONALD TRUMP (via phone): Certainly, the former president is in the far-right area. He's certainly an authoritarian, admires people who are dictators. He has said that. So, he certainly falls into the general definition of fascist, for sure.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Kelly going on the record with "The New York Times," the paper reporting that Kelly decided to speak out now, because he's deeply disturbed by these comments from Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: It is the enemy from within, and they're very dangerous.
We have China. We have a Russia. We have all these countries. If you have a smart president, they can all be handled. The more difficult are, you know, the Pelosis. These people, they're so sick, and they're so evil.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: This as "The Atlantic" reports that, while he was president, Trump said, quote, "I need the kind of generals that Hitler had, people who were totally loyal to him, that follow orders."
Editor in chief Jeffrey Goldberg attributes that to two sources who heard the exchange.
The Trump campaign denies that he said it, but John Kelly told "The New York Times" this. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY (via phone): He commented more than once, you know, that Hitler did some good things, too. And of course, if you know history -- again, I think he's lacking in that, but if you know what his -- you know what Hitler was all about, it would be pretty hard to make an argument that he did anything good.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So, while Trump is spending his final days on the trail, telling locker room stories about Arnold Palmer, serving up fries at McDonald's, it's worth remembering that he's also said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: He says you're not going to be a dictator, are you? I said, no, no, no. Other than day one. We're closing the border. And we're drilling, drilling, drilling. After that, I'm not a dictator.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Trump's campaign has said, of course, that was just a joke. Maybe it was. But when Trump has been given the opportunity to explain his comments about using the U.S. military against the enemy from within, a comment that led John Kelly to speak out now, Trump has responded this way.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But again, he's a political opponent. He's not the enemy.
TRUMP: No. He's a -- of course he's an enemy. He's an enemy.
That's an enemy from within. That's really -- that is a threat to democracy. These are bad people. We have a lot of bad people.
But when you look at Shifty Schiff and some of the others, yes, they are, to me, the enemy from within. I think Nancy Pelosi is an enemy from within. She lied. She was supposed to protect the Capitol.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: So, with less than two weeks until election day, with many of my sources in both parties pointing to signs that momentum is with Donald Trump in these final days, it is worth marking a moment when one of the people who knows Trump's first presidency best, who was in the room with him for years and has devoted his own life entirely to serving the United States of America, tells us this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KELLY (via phone): He's certainly the only president that has all but rejected what America is all about, and what makes America America, in terms of our Constitution. (END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: What makes America, America.
Joining us now to talk about all of this, Elliot Williams, CNN legal analyst; Jonathan Alter, the author of "American Reckoning"; Kendra Barkoff, former press secretary to Joe Biden; and Matt Gorman, former senior adviser to Tim Scott's presidential campaign.
[06:05:05]
Welcome to all of you. Thank you for being here.
Jonathan, you've spent a lot of time thinking about history. You've seen and covered a lot of that American history. Everything, our media environment is so fragmented. Everything flies by us so fast now that it seems sometimes in these final moments of the campaign, you can lose sight of what we re really grappling with here.
But when the headline in "The Atlantic" is that Trump wants his generals to be more like -- they want -- like Hitler's generals. And you have these comments on the record from Kelly, who's been very careful about how and when he decides to speak out.
It does collectively make a significant statement about where we are.
JONATHAN ALTER, AUTHOR, "AMERICAN RECKONING": Yes, we're at a moment of national truth. This is the most significant election since 1864 when, if Abraham Lincoln had lost, there would have been a separate peace with the South as Trump said last week he favored. We would've had a confederacy, no abolition.
So, this election is as big as that.
We now have the former chief of staff to Donald Trump, the former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, top military officer. They both used the "F"-word, "fascist." This is not a drill.
And -- and when he talks about, you know, oh, "enemies from within," he's not just talking about political rivals. He said "the Pelosis," plural. This poor 82-year-old man, a husband of Nancy Pelosi, who had his skull fractured. Trump is joking about it when he's still in the hospital.
Now he's saying that, because of Paul Pelosi's connection to Nancy Pelosi, he's an enemy from within, too. Anybody who is, in any way, connected to any of his rivals is subject to the full force of his government, if he is returned to the Oval Office.
This is dead serious, Kasie. People have to wake up and understand. Our whole system is at stake in this election.
HUNT: Well, and of course, the question -- and this is something that -- that John Kelly has talked about and focused on and -- and been quoted as talking about, is the use of the United States military, and the ways in which, when Trump was in office, he would suggest. And Kelly would have to push back on using the U.S. military in the United States of America.
And we didn't play the initial comment yet that Donald Trump had made about using the United States military in the context of election day. So, let's just watch that as a reminder.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The bigger problem are the people from within. We have some very bad people. We have some sick people, radical left lunatics.
And I think that -- and it should be very easily handled by, if necessary, by National Guard or ,if really necessary, by the military. They -- because they can't let that happen.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Matt Gorman, a number of Republicans have been asked about those comments. They've struggled to answer questions about that. Him saying that is why, according to "The Times," Kelly decided to do all of this on the record. Does this make a difference?
And it does seem as though it's hard to defend. Do you think, if Trump is president again, that the same kind of guardrails that existed in the first presidency, where you had these military officers saying and doing these things, would exist again?
MATT GORMAN, FORMER SENIOR ADVISOR, TIM SCOTT'S PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN: I'm skeptical it will matter, right? I think, in setting aside -- I have some skepticism about the Goldberg story for some other reasons.
But I think setting aside this, I think under two weeks, I think the noise is just at an all-time high right now.
And also, let's just be honest. We're a truly divided country, and the fact that -- if this is going to move anybody on the margin, I think it's very unlikely at the moment.
And especially because we just live in such two completely different universes on this sort of thing. So, I am very skeptical, at this point in the game, if this is going to matter at all.
And candidly, after reading the article, nor should it in some respects, but that's a whole different thing.
HUNT: Kendra.
ALTER: Well, should it?
KENDRA BARKOFF, FORMER PRESS SECRETARY TO JOE BIDEN: I bed to disagree with you on the "nor should it" piece. I mean, we should be very scared about our future, should there be a Donald Trump presidency.
No. 2, he has said he wants to use the active-duty military for the George Floyd protests. He has disrespected our military every step of the way, both alive and dead.
And the fact that people can't remember, you know, Hitler killed millions and millions of Jews and other people. And the fact that he wants his generals to be more like Hitler, we should be really scared, and it should be a wake-up call to every American.
HUNT: Well, and Kelly also recounts that he tried to explain to Trump that, in several instances, Hitler's own generals actually tried to take him down because of what he was doing.
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Look, the big question for people to decide in the next two weeks is whether the tax cut and federal judges are worth it.
Because the trade-off is this gamble. And at this point, it's not even a gamble, given what -- how the first four years of the Trump administration went and what it appears you would get without the guardrails of the John Kellys and other people to restrain his impulses around him. Is it actually worth it?
[06:10:12]
And many people right now seem to think that it is. It's -- as somebody had said, it's a -- it's a very close election. And that's just for people to decide.
HUNT: Jonathan, one of the other notes in "The Atlantic" story that stood out to me is that Goldberg reports Trump has responded incredulously when told that American military personnel swear an oath to the Constitution and not to the president.
And that is really the central thing that makes America different from other countries.
ALTER: That and the peaceful transfer of power. And we know about this response to that.
So, this is a man who has routinely violated his oath of office. It's to uphold the Constitution, not his -- a license for his personal power.
He admires dictators. Vladimir Putin is the only person in the whole world he's never said anything critical about. And he wants to be a strong man.
So, America has to ask itself, do we want an American Putin? That's what's on offer in this election.
And, you know, Republicans can rationalize as much as they want. They don't want to face the truth here. They know the truth. They're trying to like -- they think -- I don't know -- that somehow, he'll be restrained in a second term? Please. We know that that's not the case.
So, this is a moment for conscience of every Republican, every independent. They really have to ask themselves, am I willing to take this risk after John Kelly, Mark Milley, Tom [SIC] Esper, all of these people who worked for him said --
HUNT: Mark, yes.
ALTER: Mark Esper. This is a dangerous man. Do you really want to go into the polls, pull the lever for a dangerous man, a threat to our republic? Really?
WILLIAMS: Even if you don't go as far as saying a dangerous individual, the words that have come out of his mouth and get explained away as jokes or casual talk or whatever else, are quite concerning and ought to be quite concerning.
And I think there's a rush -- I think this is what Jonathan is getting at. There's a rush to sort of explain them away. That's a pretty big gamble to take, particularly based on what you already know about how this person would be likely to govern based on those around them.
HUNT: Matt, are you confident, if Trump becomes president again, that he won't cross a line in how he uses the U.S. military?
GORMAN: I think so for a couple of reasons.
It depends also who he staffs it with. And that's -- that's also the interesting part is as we've talked about this, who would go in that Trump administration, right? And I think that's the open question in all of this.
HUNT: All right. Well, 13 days.
Still ahead here on CNN THIS MORNING, Generation Z voters. We'll dive into how changes in that demographic could decide the balance of power in the next Congress.
Plus, election security. How officials across the country are working around the clock to fight misinformation ahead of November 5.
And lock him up? President Biden raising eyebrows with his comments about Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I know this sounds bizarre. It sounds like, if I said this five years ago, you'd lock me up. We've got to lock him up. Politically lock him up.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: I know this sounds bizarre. It sounds like, if I said this five years ago, you'd lock me up. We've got to lock him up. Politically lock him up. Lock him out. That's what we have to do.
(END VIDEO CLIP) HUNT: It took a moment there. President Biden eventually added the word "politically" to that remark about locking up Donald Trump.
Of course, though, it did not take the Trump campaign very long to call on Kamala Harris to condemn the president's comments. They said this: quote, "Joe Biden just admitted the truth. He and Kamala's plan all along has been to politically persecute their opponent, President Trump, because they can't beat him fair and square."
Biden was, of course, nodding to a line used by Donald Trump and echoed by his supporters for nearly a decade. We heard it at a rally just last month.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We're bringing them in at levels that nobody's ever seen, and we're doing it by stupid people like Kamala. She's a stupid person. Stupid person. I don't care. I don't care.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lock her up! Lock her up!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lock her up! Lock her up!
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Lock her up! Lock her up!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Our panel is back.
We've been having a conversation about Americans' -- America's norms. And of course, this is something that was introduced with Trump's rallies and Hillary Clinton.
But Kendra, I mean, Joe Biden saying this? I mean, it does seem to me that, if they want to convince Americans that their -- that Trump is incorrect in saying that there is a politically motivated thing here, they've got to keep their noses clean 100 percent of the time.
What did -- what did you see what from the president there? Should he have gone that far?
BARKOFF: I mean, he clarified his remarks. He -- you know, he -- he said, "lock him out" and "politically." You know, I think he -- he said those remarks, but he pretty quickly clarified it. It wasn't, you know, hours later.
But look at --
HUNT: Lock him up.
ALTER: Politically.
BARKOFF: But it's -- when he said "lock him out," he -- you know, he locked -- I think the fact that people are jumping on it is -- is pretty ironic, given the fact that we just saw a clip of Donald Trump's saying, you know, she's this; she's that; maybe she's on drugs; maybe this.
I mean, the fact is, this is what -- Donald Trump makes stuff up day in and day out, and just throws stuff out there. And he -- you know, he's all about the chanting. I think it's -- this is just an ironic thing from him.
ALTER: I mean, this started at the 2016 convention when, you know, former General Flynn is leading chants of "lock her up." Hillary Clinton.
So, it's pretty rich for them to be complaining about it at this point. It's always, whataboutism with this crowd.
WILLIAMS: Yes, but there's a couple of things going on here. More than anything else, it was such a profoundly stupid thing for the president to say. Here's why.
It played directly into the central point that -- that Donald Trump and folks around him have made, which is that the country has this overweening Justice Department, top-down from the president, going after its rivals.
Now, that's not true. It's patently false. But people buy it and believe in it. And Donald Trump has been spreading that nonsense all along.
By merely saying the words -- he walked off of them and backed off it -- by merely articulating it, even as an accident, he gave fire to that nonsense.
Now, to be clear -- and I want to echo Kendra's point -- this isn't a "both sides" thing. We've spent the last 19 and a half minutes of this program talking about comments from Donald Trump about dictatorship, the use of the military, calling his opponent stupid, and on and on and on. It's not that -- it's entirely unfair to pick one Joe Biden comment, a pretty egregious one, compared to everything Donald Trump has said.
GORMAN: Joe Biden's been Donald Trump's best surrogate the last few weeks. I mean, you had him essentially, like, tying himself with Kamala Harris. She's been responsible for everything he's done in the administration.
Biden's story with DeSantis and her on the phone call over the hurricane. And now this. You can see why they don't want him out that much.
ALTER: Yes. That's for sure.
HUNT: All right. Jonathan, thank you so much for being with us.
ALTER: Thanks, Kasie.
HUNT: I really appreciate you coming through and enjoy your perspective. Thanks for being here.
ALTER: Thanks.
HUNT: All right. Coming up next on CNN THIS MORNING, state election officials working to stop a growing wave of misinformation as the election nears. Longtime elections attorney Ben Ginsberg is going to be here to discuss.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:26:15]
HUNT: All right, welcome back.
Parts of the Eastern U.S. have yet to see a drop of rain this month, a potentially record-breaking streak, dry streak, impacting those changing fall leaves that we all love to admire.
Let's get to our meteorologist, the weatherman himself, live and in- person.
DEREK VAN DAM, CNN METEOROLOGIST: I am here. Not a figment --
HUNT: Derek van Dam.
VAN DAM: -- of your screen imagination.
HUNT: It's wonderful to have you here. What are we looking at?
VAN DAM: Yes. So, this leaf peeping industry is actually a multi- billion-dollar industry along the East Coast. So, they pay attention to the weather, how the fall colors. Just like this leaf peeper, extraordinaire.
I love this time of year. And the dry conditions are certainly impacting it.
But here's the current state of the fall foliage right now. If you're looking for those maples, they are looking fantastic right along the coastline of Maine through Connecticut. The aspens are on fire right now near Flagstaff, Arizona, as well.
A bit of information: did you know that, in deciduous trees, leaves are actually yellow and orange. It's the chlorophyll and the photosynthesis that actually makes them change colors.
Once we have that autumn move in and the cool weather, then we start to lose the sunlight, and that removes the chlorophyll and the changes of the colors exceed.
Now, look at this. This is what's happening across the mid-Atlantic. D.C., peak is coming, but it has been very dry. So, that means a vibrant peak, but it'll be shorter lasting this time.
Twenty-three consecutive days, both New York and Atlanta without a drop of rain from the sky. In fact, we could go the entire month, which would be a first of Atlanta's history, without any rainfall. And of course, that is going to impact the drought, the leaf peeping industry.
And look at this warmth. This is convertible weather, Kasie. It's looking fantastic. A little cooler, though, the next couple of days. But the extended outlook shows that above-average temperatures for our kids heading into Halloween.
HUNT: All right. Well, today's too hot for the Corvette. But Friday looks great.
VAN DAM: The natural air-conditioning. Just take off that top.
HUNT: Yes, for sure. All right. Derek van Dam for us. Derek, so grateful to have you. Thank you.
VAN DAM: All right.
HUNT: All right. Still to come here on CNN THIS MORNING, Congress, of course, has notoriously terrible approval ratings, unlikely to be changing anytime soon. We're going to discuss some new findings from focus groups with Generation Z voters with a longtime pollster, Frank Luntz.
Plus, Tim Walz going after billionaire Elon Musk for his recent appearances with the Trump campaign.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
WALZ: I'm going to talk about his running mate. His running mate, Elon Musk.
That guy is literally the richest man in the world, spending millions of dollars to help Donald Trump buy an election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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