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CNN This Morning

Rep. Pat Ryan (D-NY) is Interviewed about the Hegseth Nomination; John Bolton is Interviewed about the Hegseth Nomination; Rep. Ryan Zinke (R-MT) is Interviewed about Senate Majority Leader; Musk and Ramaswamy Picked to Lead New DOGE. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired November 13, 2024 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: Army veteran Pete Hegseth taking some in the defense world by surprise.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. ADAM SMITH (D-WA): I confess, I didn't know who he was until 20 minutes ago.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Hegseth, who has previously said he opposes women serving in combat roles, and opposes military DEI initiatives, is a close Trump ally and likely to carry out Trump's intended Pentagon shake-up. Trump's vision for the military encapsulated in this video he posted last month.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ON SCREEN TEXT: America's military. President Donald J. Trump vs. Comrade Kamala Harris.

President Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You little scum bag. I got your name! I got your ass! You will not laugh. You will not cry. You will learn by the number.

ON SCREEN TEXT: Comrade Kamala.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Happy pride. Happy pride month. And, actually, let's declare it a summer of pride.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love working for Uncle Sam.

CROWD: I love working for Uncle Sam!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Joining us now, Democratic Congressman Pat Ryan of New York. He is a West Point graduate who served two combat tours in Iraq, now sits on the House Armed Services Committee.

Congressman, thank you so much for being here.

REP. PAT RYAN (D-NY): Good morning.

HUNT: You, of course, also in your race outperformed the Democratic presidential nominee by a considerable amount. So, you are in one of those places where people were willing to send you back here to Washington, but they also wanted to vote for Donald Trump.

I want to ask you why. I also want to ask you off the top, what is your reaction to the announcement that Trump will nominate Pete Hegseth as secretary of defense? Is he qualified?

RYAN: This is such a serious time in the world and arguably the most serious cabinet position. I just don't think he's a serious person from, I think, an unserious president who dodged the draft five times, called our troops suckers and losers, fundamentally misunderstands what selfless service is about, and insulted gold star families and medal of honor recipients. And, sadly, this is not surprising to me, but it's incredibly concerning.

Specifically, some of his "Wall Street Journal" reporting about a proposed executive order about military purges echoing sort of Stalin's military purges. And Hegseth has been on the record supporting those kinds of things. So we are, especially on the Armed Services Committee, really going to have to keep a watchful eye on somebody like this. He would be the most political and, I think, one of the least qualified secretary of defenses in our history.

HUNT: You, of course, are in the House, not the Senate. The Senate will have to vote to confirm him. Do you think he will get confirmed through the Republican Senate?

RYAN: Well, I think these kind of nominees are why you see Trump putting this sort of purity test forward for Senate leadership of these recessed, under the cover of darkness appointments because he knows he's putting forth people that might not be qualified by the normal oversight role that Congress should play.

Look, regardless of party, this is a country founded on checks and balances. We have to maintain that constitutional principle. And I worry that a guy like this could - could sneak through. So, we've got to - I hope we can at least have a proper process of real vetting.

HUNT: So, as someone who's been in combat, I mean you understand the realities of fighting. What that actually means. You saw the contract there that - the way Trump tried to portray things.

We have heard a little bit more from Hegseth about what he thinks about women serving in the military, for example. He thinks they shouldn't serve in combat.

What do you say to, to that? I mean, is - is he standing - what kind of ground is he standing on? RYAN: What made certainly my platoon and my company, my battalion so

strong is we all understood we had a mission larger than ourself, and each of us had something unique we could bring to that. It's such a narrow, I think, selfish view of what service and selflessness means to - to exclude rather than do the work to bring people together. And so we've got to do better than that as a country, and we owe our troops that. I mean these are people that have willingly put their life on the line and it - I think it's disrespectful to them.

HUNT: So, Congressman, let's talk about the politics of this for a second because, obviously, part of that ad that the Trump team put out, there are components of this masculinity, femininity. We talked so much about the gender gap. And like we said, you won your race by about 11 points. "Politico" said that you did it by distancing yourself from Joe Biden early, ditching a typical partisan framing, but also that you leaned into a masculinity that appealed to young, disaffected men in a different kind of way than Donald Trump did. And, of course, they note you did serve in combat. And they referenced this ad that you aired in your district on masculinity. I want to show it to everyone and then ask you about it.

Take a look.

[06:35:02]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pat Ryan is a different kind of Democrat. As county executive, he cut property taxes and fought to lower housing costs. He combatted illegal gun and drug trafficking and read hundreds of bedtime stories.

Congressman Pat Ryan, West Point graduate, combat veteran, living room wrestling champion.

RYAN: I'm Pat Ryan, and I approve this message.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: What are you trying to show your voters there with that ad, and why do you think it resonated?

RYAN: We had a lot of fun making that ad. A lot of takes to get the Legos right with my five-year-old.

HUNT: I bet. I have a five-years old boy. I cannot imagine.

RYAN: Yes. Yes. I mean, one, just be normal, be human. We orient so much around this, are you moderate, are you progressive, are you conservative, are you - are you liberal? Like, people are just worried about their family and want someone who is clear-eyed about the risk and the threat and the - of economic pressure, but also optimistic and positive and thinking about building something for their kids.

And on the point of masculinity, I think this is really existential in our country right now. Trump and the MAGA movement offer this selfish, narrow, I think isolating view of what masculinity is. When I talk to young people, especially young men, they want to be part of something bigger than themself. And we have an opportunity, and I would say an obligation in the Democratic Party, to offer that now.

I'm - I'm going to try to work on national service legislation again this Congress. I think that's one of the antidotes to this really, I think, un-American view of masculinity that's being offered by Trump.

HUNT: Congressman, how much of the broad losses that Democrats - you did not sustain this loss, but that your party sustained, is about culture, is about some progressive cultural ideas going too far?

RYAN: I think it's about getting caught in the cultural war rather than staying grounded in where real people are, real families are. The affordability crisis, we centered it every single day. In my campaign we made it local and visceral and human and showed the fight that, regardless of any labels or ideology, I was there to fight for every single person, and against. Like, we were clear about who the bad actors are that are harming and putting this pressure on people.

I think if we get too caught in the echo chamber of the culture war bubble, people are just like, oh, OK, you're just another one of those. You're just trying to divide us, when I have existential challenges that my - I'm trying to face to put food on the table for my family. And so I think that was part of our success. And a lot of others did this, too.

I mean we have a lot of reasons to be optimistic about the future, where we saw great performances in state-wide races, and I would say especially from military veterans. Ruben Gallego winning, Jeff Jackson winning in North Carolina statewide. A lot of my House colleagues won tough races. The Chris Deluzios of world and others.

So, let's focus on where we did well and try to replicate that, rather than beating each other up over and over and over and finger-pointing and blaming.

HUNT: Yes. Well, the - thank you very much for your service. I think it's wise to point out that it's thankfully valued by a lot of people across the country in a lot of different places.

Congressman Pat Ryan, thanks for being here. I appreciate it.

RYAN: Yes. Thank you.

HUNT: All right, straight ahead here on CNN THIS MORNING, DOGE back in the headlines. Donald Trump announcing a new Department of Government Efficiency. You can do the abbreviation. The two allies he's putting in charge there.

Plus, Fox anchor Pete Hegseth tapped to head up the Department of Defense. We will discuss with two members of Trump's first administration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think Pete Hegseth is clearly going to do whatever Donald Trump wants him to do. And Donald Trump has made it very clear that he is going to politicize the entire executive branch.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:43:03]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would say that, you know, I'm concerned. I wouldn't say it as hysterically as Golden (ph) is, but I would say it, you know, I have some concerns that we're seeing a lot of Bronny James and not many Steph Currys.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Not a lot of Steph Currys. That was former Trump White House lawyer Ty Cobb with a not so ringing endorsement of the president- elect's most recent choices for his cabinet. In the last 24 hours, Trump has named South Dakota Governor Kristi Noem Homeland Security secretary, former Director of National Intelligence John Radcliff his pick to lead the CIA, and now Army veteran and Fox News host Pete Hegseth as Defense secretary.

Joining us now to discuss all of this is John Bolton, former U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, former national security adviser to Donald Trump, who has, of course, since become an outspoken critic of his former boss.

Sir, thanks very much for being here.

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Glad to be with you.

HUNT: So, Mr. Ambassador, I want to start with the Defense secretary choice. This is someone who is clearly very close to Donald Trump. That's why he was selected, it seems. What, in your view, are the implications of Mr. Hegseth potentially running the Defense Department?

BOLTON: Well, I think he clearly is a loyalty choice. I think that's the - that's what Trump is after. As I've said before, I don't think loyalty is really the right word. I think it's fealty. I think what Trump wants from his appointees is subservience.

You know, in the days of imperial China, when an envoy from foreign barbarians came to see the emperor, he had to prostrate himself on the ground full out and knock his forehead on the ground three times before the emperor would recognize him. That's what Trump thinks of as loyalty.

And the question of whether it's for Pete Hegseth or any of the other appointees, it is, are they prepared to be that kind of yes man or yes woman?

[06:45:00]

I don't - I don't know what Hegseth's performance is going to be. He performed honorably in his military service. And if he lives up to that ideal, he won't be afraid to tell the president what he thinks.

HUNT: Sir, what are the potential scenarios where a Defense secretary, under Donald Trump, may have to decide between following the norms and expectations, laws around the use of our military, and the orders of the commander in chief?

BOLTON: Well, I think there are going to be quite a lot of them. I think the Defense Department and the Justice Department are the two flashpoints, where, for example, Trump has said in - in - on many prior occasions he'd use the military for law enforcement purposes in this country. There are statutes that deal with that. There's circumstances where it's permissible. Dwight Eisenhower used the military and the desegregation controversy in the Little Rock schools because there was a Supreme Court decision at stake. I don't think that's Trump's model of how to do it. And the question is, will a Defense secretary, in a Trump administration, abide by the law. And if Trump orders him to violate the law, will he then resign or will he carry it out? That - those are questions legitimate for the confirmation process.

HUNT: I mean do you think Pete Hegseth would sign off on using the military against Americans in the context of, say, protests, as Donald Trump raised during the campaign?

BOLTON: I don't know. I don't know. I will say that his military service was very commendable. And the question is, will he behave keeping his personal integrity and his loyalty to the constitution uppermost? I don't know him well enough to know the answer to that question. Maybe other people do. Maybe you even just interview one of them. He seems to know the answer to it. I don't. I'll say it frankly.

HUNT: Mr. Ambassador, let me also ask you about this panel. "The Wall Street Journal" has reported that there's an executive order being crafted to evaluate generals, admirals, flag officers. We were just speaking with Congressman Pat Ryan, he's a Democrat, he was a West Point grad, also served, raised concerns about that. What impact would such a panel have on the U.S. military?

BOLTON: Well, I think it's a big mistake. I think it looks like politicizing the military and I think that - that is the sort of action that's very poorly thought out. If the Trump administration wants to change Biden administration policies in the woke area, it's perfectly entitled to do that. But the way it does it is by telling the military and civilian officials in the Defense Department that there's a new sheriff in town, the policy's changed and they better get with the program.

But coming in with an outside panel review smacks really of an effort to do exactly what they accused the Biden administration of doing, which is politicizing a military that we have worked decades, centuries even, to make non-political. And to put that at risk, I think, is very serious.

HUNT: All right, Ambassador John Bolton, very grateful to have you on the show today, sir. Thanks very much for your perspective.

BOLTON: Thanks for having me.

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: All right, let's turn now to the key leadership elections happening just hours from now on Capitol Hill. This morning, Senate Republicans will determine by a secret ballot who will replace Mitch McConnell as majority leader. The next leader likely to be either Senator John Thune, John Cornyn or Rick Scott.

Trump is in Washington today, and he is set to meet with the newly elected leader later. He's not endorsed a candidate. His MAGA allies, though, have mounted a very public pressure campaign to elect Senator Rick Scott.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: What do you think about this pressure campaign that's being launched by people who support Rick Scott, calling senators offices and the like? Are you getting those calls?

SEN. ERIC SCHMITT (R-MO): Yes. Yes, but I think it's great. I mean I just think people ought to be able to weigh in.

RAJU: Is that swaying you?

SCHMITT: Listen, this is the big leagues, right? So, if you're not - if you're not prepared for that, you're probably in the wrong gig.

SEN. TOMMY TUBERVILLE (R-AL): My phone has been ringing off the wall. My email has been lit up. People want somebody that's going hand-to- hand. It's also a business (INAUDIBLE). Like Rick Scott can work with President Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right, joining us now, Republican Congressman Ryan Zinke of Montana, also former commander of SEAL Team 6 and former interior secretary under Donald Trump, who now sits on the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Congressman, wonderful to see you. Thanks for being here.

REP. RYAN ZINKE (R-MT): Great to be with you.

HUNT: So, obviously, the Senate Republicans are going to choose their top leader. The question being whether or not this person - how this person might work with Donald Trump. Trump has yet to weigh in. As someone who has served both in the legislature, obviously not the Senate, but in the legislature, as well in the Congress, as well as in a Trump administration, what do you think your fellow Republicans in the Senate should be considering as they make this choice?

[06:50:01]

ZINKE: Well, it's very difficult for a House member to comment sometimes on the Senate because I call it Mount Olympus. But, you know, the Senate has to work with the president. And from a House frustration point of view, the Senate has blocked a lot of what the House wants to do, particularly on the budget. The way the Constitution is erected, remember, is the House is supposed to present the funding bills.

HUNT: Yes.

ZINKE: That's what (ph) appropriations. And the Senate has refused to pick them up.

So, what I'm hoping is, we get back to order. That we have a Senate leadership that understands the Constitution and understands the process is, the House passes the funding bills, they're received by the Senate. The Senate puts amendments on them and then they go to a conference committee. And if we understand the process, we can get things done.

I can tell you 34 trillion reasons why it hasn't been done.

HUNT: Congressman -

ZINKE: And that's our debt.

HUNT: Fair enough.

All right, Congressman, I want to also ask you, because you are also a veteran, a very distinguished one, about Donald Trump's pick for secretary of defense. This is what Mr. Hegseth recently had to say about women in combat roles.

Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETE HEGSETH, FOX NEWS HOST: I'm straight-up just saying, we should not have women in combat roles. It hasn't made us more effective, hasn't made us more lethal, has made fighting more complicated.

We've all served with women, and they're great. It's just, our institutions don't have to incentivize that in places where traditionally - not traditionally, over human history men in those positions are more capable.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Congressman, what's your reaction to that? And what impact will it have on his confirmation in the Senate?

ZINKE: Well, it's - actually, I think it's a pretty good choice. You know, he - you look at the former secretaries, whether it was Perry, Les Aspin, they didn't have a military background. He obviously does. And his service is honorable. He's a veteran. He understands it from a soldier's point of view. He is absolutely going to need some - some deputies around him that understand the institution, that giving him good advice. And I think he will stand up against the president, when the president - if the president has an unlawful order. I think that -

HUNT: You do?

ZINKE: I do. I do. That's the UCMJ. I think officers and those that are in service understand the difference between a lawful and an unlawful order.

On women in combat, yes, from a - you know, I was commander at SEAL Team 6. There are great roles and missions, but they're different. There are physical differences between men and women and some of the harder combat roles that require physical, you know, attributes. I think those should be reserved.

But I have also fought alongside women in special operations roles that are oftentimes more dangerous, the women counterparts oftentimes are more trained than their - than their SEAL counterparts.

So, there's roles and missions for everyone involved in the military. But when it comes to, you know, physical, you know, endurance, there's a difference between men and women. And let's call it the way it is. It's not that everyone - everyone has an important part to do in a military role. And I think there is roles and missions for everybody, but there are differences.

And so, I agree and I disagree.

HUNT: Do you have any concerns about the proposed executive order that "The Wall Street Journal" has reported that would potentially fire flag officers in the United States military based on their apparent political or perceived political opinions?

ZINKE: Well, I think the military is in need of reform, of reorganization. The last time the military was reorganized was 1984. I asked the question, what's - what's - what's different since 1984? Well, what's the same? Not much. And so, the military itself has to be reorganized. I'm thinking reorganization is probably going to be along those lines. The woke is a concern in the military.

But I do agree with John Bolton in that the military is used to taking orders. You should give the military their commands as a commander-in- chief. That's your responsibility. And if the military doesn't follow those orders, if they're lawful, then there's consequences to be had.

But I do think, you know, our military is the strongest ever assembled. I have great confidence in our - in our military. And I have great confidence that - that Pete Hegseth, given that he has deputies around him that are experienced, will be fine.

HUNT: OK. Will be fine. (INAUDIBLE).

ZINKE: We'll be more than fine. We'll be great.

HUNT: All right, Congressman Ryan Zinke, so grateful to have you on the program. Thank you very much.

ZINKE: Yes, always a pleasure.

HUNT: Come back soon.

OK, all right, now this, shut it down, and, this will sending shock waves through the system. Those are the first comments from Vivek Ramaswamy and Elon Musk after being named by Donald Trump to a new Department of Government Efficiency. The DOGE. The advisory board being tanked by the president-elect to find ways to slash the federal budget by July 4th of 2026. That is, of course, America's 250th birthday.

[06:55:01]

Musk wrote this on his social media site X, formerly Twitter, they will also have a leaderboard of the, quote, "most insanely dumb spending of your tax dollars."

The topic of government spending has been a focus for both Ramaswamy and Musk while campaigning for Donald Trump.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIVEK RAMASWAMY (R), FORMER 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Shut down the FBI. Shut down the ATF. Shut down the CDC. Shut down the U.S. Department of Education. Fire 75 percent of the federal bureaucrats in Washington, D.C.

ELON MUSK, TECH MOGUL: Your money is being wasted, and Department of Government Efficiency is going to fix that.

We're going to get the government off your back and out of your pocketbook.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right, our panel has returned.

So, Alex, this is the role for Elon Musk.

ALEX THOMPSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes.

HUNT: There have been - there's been no shortage of people pointing out the two people at the top of one government agency, may in itself be an example of inefficiency. But setting that aside, what does this actually look like? What does this actually mean? It does seem like it potentially puts a lot of federal jobs at the mercy of Elon Musk and Vivek Ramaswamy?

THOMPSON: Yes, there's a lot of white space that has not been filled in yet. This is - it's being labeled or branded as a department, but it's not an actual department. It's more of just a task force outside of the government.

Now, what's going to be really interesting is to see what sort of power they actually have. Do they go in and they deliver a report to Trump and be like, we recommend this, or do they - they go in, like Elon did to Twitter, right, goes in and says, all these people are useless, calls up Trump and says, can you give me the ability to fire them? You know, there's a lot we don't know and it could be one of the most disruptive task forces we've ever seen.

BRAD TODD, PARTNER, ONMESSAGE INC.: We can only hope. We can only hope its disruptive. The federal government is a mess. We have FEMA people saying you can't have aid if you have a Trump sign in your yard. I mean we need to put the federal bureaucracy on notice that this is not business as usual. The American people voted for disruption. So we can only hope it's disruptive.

KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I mean I think the question is whether or not it is done effectively. It would not be - I mean if we looked at how - when Elon took over X, right, the first day there were certain things they couldn't do because, whoops, he didn't realize that by firing certain departments who did - performed certain functions, there was nobody there.

HUNT: Well, like, child safety would be a very important piece that was deeply affected.

FINNEY: Right. So, I think the question - so I think the question is just, what is the methodology with which they approach this? Is it just a, you know, get rid of the ATF? OK, then who is going to take up those functions? And then the question becomes, if there are functions that we believe government should continue to perform, what is the new configuration look like? That would be the question.

And as Alex said, there's a lot of blank space next to those two names.

TODD: There's a big chance for bipartisan cooperation though. Democrats run on government inefficiency, too. It doesn't really - they don't change much, but they do run on it a lot. And, frankly, both parties have been guilty of it. That's part of the reason Donald Trump was picked, just to disrupt the Republican and Democrat parties in the way of doing business as usual in Washington. It's a good chance for cooperation if Democrats will do it.

HUNT: I was going to say, Stephen, I mean this is not like a new idea under the sun, right, that the government needs to be adjusted.

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: Right.

HUNT: I mean I remember when Tom Coburn was in the Senate. Every year we would get a giant pdf of like all of the things that he wanted to get rid of, right?

COLLINSON: Right. And Al Gore - right. I mean Al Gore was going to re- invent government 25 years ago.

HUNT: Right.

COLLINSON: My question - THOMPSON: He actually did.

FINNEY: Actually, he did. Actually, on some of the forms, it literally will say at the bottom, this form has been shortened by, blah, blah, blah, re-inventing government. I'm not kidding.

COLLINSON: But my question would be, is this department going to come up with some cuts that Donald Trump may not actually want? If they're going to say, we're going to cut $2 trillion from the federal budget, which is, what 6.5, 6.75, that's going to involve a lot of political pain.

But I think the fact we're sitting around here, we're questioning whether Musk is qualified to do this, Ramaswamy, same at the Defense Department, that is part of the point. They - Trump came in promising disruption and change. That's what his voters wanted.

FINNEY: Yes.

COLLINSON: And even if some of these people are qualified, and it turns out to be a disaster, for some of Trump's voters, that's enough, because if government doesn't work, that's a success.

THOMPSON: Just one note of caution that, you know, some people have pointed out that Donald Trump really believes he has this enormous mandate. But you actually look, he only won by 250,000 votes across the three blue wall states. That's the only margin of victory. And it's still unclear if those people in the middle were voting for sort of old Trump, nostalgia Trump, which was a little bit more restrained by the institutions, or they were voting for mass disruption.

TODD: Well, you're still going to have institutional constraints, right? They're going to - Congress has an appropriations process, although it hasn't been doing it. We've been doing all the spending by executive order and through CRs with four people in Congress coming to the conclusion. So, if what this commission does is to push the overting (ph) window and challenge this Congress to actually exercise its appropriations authority, that will be a great thing.

HUNT: (INAUDIBLE).

[07:00:03]

FINNEY: I think the bigger challenge is the two big personalities that have been -

HUNT: Well, I was just going to say, we didn't even get to this.

FINNEY: (INAUDIBLE).

HUNT: There's a - there's an anonymous quote in "Politico" from a Trump insider this morning that suggests, quote, "Elon is getting a little big for his britches," end quote.

So, that's going to have to be a discussion for another day, but it's going to be one that's going to be looming here for us. Thank you, guys, very much for joining us. Thanks to all of you for joining us as well. I'm Kasie Hunt. Don't go anywhere. "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.