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Trump: 'Liz Cheney Could Be in a Lot of Trouble'; Harris to Supporters: 'We Must Stay in the Fight'. Aired 6-6:30a ET
Aired December 18, 2024 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: It's Wednesday, December 18 right now on CNN THIS MORNING.
[05:59:41]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think those people committed a major crime.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir --
TRUMP: And Cheney was behind it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: A criminal probe? House Republicans siding with Donald Trump, calling for their former colleague Liz Cheney, to be criminally investigated.
Plus --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We must stay in the fight. Every one of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: A rallying call. Kamala Harris promising to keep fighting as questions swirl about her political future.
And --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: The first term, everybody was fighting me. In this term, everybody wants to be my friend.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: A tech trek. Jeff Bezos the latest in a long line of tech CEOs trying to make nice with the president-elect.
Plus -- (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We will never be the same, but we will get through this.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Madison in mourning. Investigators trying to piece together a motive after a teacher and a student were killed at a Wisconsin school.
Also --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're not getting answers, and I think it's because our government does not know who is behind them.
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HUNT: Drone mania. Tips are pouring in: over 5,000 and counting. The government remains steadfast that there is nothing nefarious going on.
All right. It is 6 a.m. here on the East Coast. A live look at Capitol Hill on this Wednesday morning, as lawmakers there scramble to get it together so that they can go home for Christmas.
Good morning, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. It's wonderful to have you with us.
Donald Trump, just weeks away from being invested with the immense powers of the presidency, calling for a criminal investigation into Liz Cheney over witness tampering after a report from House Republicans singled her out, accusing her of colluding with a witness on the January 6th Committee and recommending she be investigated for possible criminal prosecution.
The president-elect, weighing in on Tuesday's report just three hours ago, saying this on his Truth Social platform: quote, "Liz Cheney could be in a lot of trouble based on the evidence obtained by the subcommittee, which states that 'numerous federal laws were likely broken by Liz Cheney, and these violations should be investigated by the FBI'," end quote. Three-eleven a.m. this morning.
The president-elect there, referring to the report released yesterday by a Republican-controlled House subcommittee, alleging what it called, quote, "the failures and politicization of the January 6th Select Committee," end quote.
The report calls the committee, quote, "a political weapon with a singular focus to deceive the public into blaming President Trump for the violence on January 6th and tarnish the legacy of his first presidency.
Among the reports, allegations against Cheney that she colluded with one of the committee's witnesses, Cassidy Hutchinson, who served as an assistant to White House chief of staff Mark Meadows.
Hutchinson provided testimony about Trump's actions on January 6th, including recounting a story she was told about an interaction the president had with his Secret Service driver.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CASSIDY HUTCHINSON, FORMER ASSISTANT TO MARK MEADOWS: The president said something to the effect of I'm the effing president. Take me up to the Capitol now.
To which Bobby responded, Sir, we have to go back to the West Wing.
The president reached up towards the front of the vehicle to grab at the steering wheel. Mr. Engel grabbed his arm, said, Sir, you need to take your hand off the steering wheel. We're going back to the West Wing. We're not going to the Capitol.
Mr. Trump then used his free hand to lunge towards Bobby Engel.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: In a lengthy statement, Cheney refuted the report's findings.
She says that it, quote, "intentionally disregards the truth and the Select Committee's tremendous weight of evidence, and instead fabricates lies and defamatory allegations in an attempt to cover up what Donald Trump did," end quote.
What did Donald Trump do on January 6th? After spending months promoting false claims of election fraud, he stood on the Ellipse, and he said this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: We will never give up. We will never concede. It doesn't happen. You don't concede when there's theft involved.
All Vice President Pence has to do is send it back to the states to recertify, and we become president. And you are the happiest people.
And we fight. We fight like hell. And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: In the hours after those remarks, this violent mob stormed the Capitol in an attempt to prevent the certification of Trump's defeat, some rioters chanting, "Hang Mike Pence," Trump's own vice president at the time, because Pence refused to violate his oath of office.
That deadly day's events were enough at the time for Republicans to condemn Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): There's no question -- none -- that President Trump is practically and morally responsible for provoking the events of the day. No question about it.
[06:05:03]
KEVIN MCCARTHY (R), FORMER CALIFORNIA REPRESENTATIVE: The president bears responsibility for Wednesday's attack on Congress by mob rioters. He should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): All I can say is count me out. Enough is enough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: But now, of course, four years later, the Republican Party once again united behind Trump. And in little over a month, he will once again control the federal government, have the authority to order the investigations, or at least have the people that he installs in Department of Justice positions take -- undertake investigations that he has openly called for, for months.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: I think those people committed a major crime.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir --
TRUMP: And Cheney was behind it. For what they did --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
TRUMP: -- honestly, they should go to jail.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Our panel is here to discuss: Jeff Zeleny, CNN chief national affairs correspondent; Michael Warren, senior editor of "The Dispatch"; Karen Finney, CNN political commentator, former senior spokesperson for Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign; and Kristen Soltis Anderson. She's a CNN political commentator and a Republican pollster.
Welcome to all of you. Thank you so much for being here.
Mike Warren, I want to start with you. In terms of the -- the singling out of Liz Cheney in this report. And the way that it sets up what Donald Trump is now.
It's almost as though this House subcommittee has pitched the ball. Donald Trump is hitting it in the direction of his incoming Department of Justice.
It's not as though he hasn't said this was what he was going to do, but we are now seeing it play out. MICHAEL WARREN, SENIOR EDITOR, "THE DISPATCH": That's right.
Retribution. That's what he promised on the campaign trail. He was elected. He was elected over -- overwhelmingly, if you look at the Electoral College. he's going to get his retribution, I believe.
And, you know, should we be surprised that the House Republican conference is sort of -- is working, you know, hand in glove with the incoming president on this?
This is what the party has been saying. They want to do this. What Trump has been saying he wants to do. So now we're going to see it. And I think that that is what makes -- I mean, we all know how -- you know, the expected nomination of Kash Patel. I guess it's maybe now official to run the FBI how this was going to be, you know, really a sort of a culmination of that promise of retribution.
That's the thing that -- that, you know, a lot of even -- I've talked to people who are Republicans who are concerned about Kash Patel and the amount of power he would have, have been trying to convey to Republican senators: Hey, listen, this guy is different. This guy really will do what Donald Trump says he wants to do at the FBI.
And that message has been sort of falling on deaf ears. You've seen Kash Patel get a good reception on Capitol Hill from Republican senators.
This is a concern that a lot of people have, and I think it's -- it's just going to happen.
HUNT: Let's -- let's take a look at some of the things Kash Patel has said about Liz Cheney. This was back in March of this year, March 11th. Let's watch.
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KASH PATEL, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY COUNCIL OFFICIAL: I think they not only knew, but the political monsters like Pelosi, Cheney, Kinzinger, Schiff, et al, wanted that political narrative, which was insurrection.
It failed in court, and now it's failing in the court of public opinion, because the truth has finally come out that the January 6th Committee buried evidence that corroborates what we've been saying for three years.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: Jeff Zeleny, what are you hearing from sources when you talk to them about this? Liz Cheney used to be one of their own. She was in the leadership of -- of the House Republican conference.
Is this something where, you know -- are any House Republicans or Senate or other Republicans you talked to expressing concern about what might happen here?
JEFF ZELENY, CNN CHIEF NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Look, I mean, it's been a while since she's been one of their own. You're right. I mean, but time moves quickly here and now. She certainly is not.
I mean, what this sort of is another reminder is that there is a sense of litigation in the air. We're seeing it with the president-elect that is one of his big focuses. We saw it yesterday with his suit against "The Des Moines Register" and their pollster.
Three-eleven this morning, as you pointed out, talking about Liz Cheney. So that is the mindset of the president-elect.
But I think overall, a lot of Senate Republicans, House Republicans are really wondering what the balance of forward-looking policy from this White House is going to be versus backward looking retribution. And we don't know.
I mean, but there is a sense that the president-elect has a great opportunity here to do things on immigration and the economy and other matters. But he is not as focused on that.
So, that's the worry I pick up from some Senate Republicans in particular. But I mean, to Mike' s point, they are making it pretty easy for him by confirming or likely confirming if they confirm these nominees, including Kash Patel.
HUNT: Yes. Kristen, is this where you think Trump -- not necessarily Trump's core supporters. And we know his MAGA base often believes a lot of this and would support it.
But the reason he won the election is because a lot of people that had voted for Democrats in the past or had -- you know, were on the fence or kind of in the middle who are unhappy about the economy, decided they didn't want to vote for Democrats. They wanted change.
[06:10:12]
Is -- are those people going to -- going to want to see this and support it? I mean, or is he risking some of that? And he clearly feels he has a political mandate. Is he risking that strength by taking this -- going down this road?
KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. It was very clear that Donald Trump ran saying, I'm going to get retribution.
I don't think you can say that this is a switcheroo in any way. At the same time, did he win because of it, or did he win in spite of it?
And I think that's an open question and one that I assume many Republican leaders would say. It's probably in spite of it. We'd rather him do the forward-looking stuff.
But remember, Republican leaders have been chastened by their own voters over the last four years.
You know, its notable watching those clips of all of these prominent Republicans on January 6th and in the days after, condemning Donald Trump for what happened on that day and then ultimately having to walk it back. It's not as though Republican leaders closed ranks around Donald Trump on January 6th and said, oh, let's protect him. They were ready to be rid of him. And it was their own voters that said, nope, this is the guy we want.
HUNT: Well, and it was even -- I mean, we showed what Kevin McCarthy said where he I mean, this subcommittee. And we said this here. So, this is January 28th, right?
It's just days after he had gone down to the floor and made those remarks that we showed in -- in the open that sort of starts this process of kind of reversing this, this the way that Republicans were -- were thinking about this.
Karen Finney, I mean, there has been this question about whether Joe Biden, as the outgoing Democratic president, should preemptively pardon or provide some sort of legal cover to some of the people that were involved in this.
I want to show you what Adam Schiff is. Obviously, somebody else who was mentioned. He's a Democrat more, you know, extensively involved in the Russia investigation that Trump is particularly upset about.
This is what Schiff had to say about whether a preemptive pardon would be a good idea. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. ADAM SCHIFF (R-CA): I don't think the incoming president should be threatening his political opponents with jail time. That's not the kind of talk we should hear from the president in a democracy.
Nor do I think that a pardon is necessary for the members of the January 6th Committee. We're proud of the work we did on that committee.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: What do you think?
KAREN FINNEY, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: So, I think there's a couple of things here. I think we need to be mindful of. Number one, as we have more votes have been counted, Donald Trump's lead is not as massive as they have been portraying it. Right?
Democrats actually did a lot better than we were talking about on election night, which means those Republicans have to be careful. Those who have to face voters in two years, how much are they letting him focus backwards versus forwards?
One of the things we did hear from voters was a concern that he would be more focused on retribution than lowering their prices, and he's already admitted he's not sure if he can lower the price of groceries. That's not going to bode well come the next couple of months, if people are seeing that focus on, you know, retribution. Secondly, I think on this this issue, I personally would like to see
Joe Biden do a broad-based clemency program. And I'm going to say this, because it's so important looking at people who are nonviolent offenders who are -- if he's going to -- I want him to do the other piece, but I think it's critical there's more he can do for people who -- there are people who are on Death Row. There are people who were caught underneath some of the policies that he passed. At the same time, I think we have to reframe how were talking about this protective pardons.
The only reason we're having this conversation is because Donald Trump is a threat. He's threatening little young women like Cassidy Hutchinson, a little 20-something who went up to Capitol Hill, did her civic duty and told the truth. How pathetic.
HUNT: Let's not call her little. I mean, she --
FINNEY: She's not little, but I'm just saying she's a young 20. She's a young 20-something, and this old man is going to use the powers of the presidency to go after her for her civic duty.
And so, I think we have to remember that these people are in danger, because he is a threat to their safety and security.
HUNT: Yes. I want to wrap up here, Mike. I do want to -- to take one piece of what this House committee is alleging, which is this witness tampering.
This goes back to Cassidy Hutchinson, how Liz Cheney convinced Cassidy Hutchinson to appear before the committee. We saw her, you know, at the start of the program, actually, you know, giving that testimony.
Jonathan Turley, who is a conservative lawyer, works with FOX, has said this about this, quote," In my view, Cheney was acting as a member of Congress in this matter. She had an institutional interest, if not a duty, to pursue witnesses. Is he right?
WARREN: I mean, if you talk to people around Liz Cheney, they for the last few weeks, they've been speaking very confidently about essentially bring it on, Donald Trump.
If you're really going to do this, we believe we have the law on our side. We believe we have the facts on our side. And she would have the money on her side, too.
I mean, the problem with these sort of prosecutions is they get very expensive for the people who are being targeted by them. I think Liz Cheney would have quite a bit of a legal defense fund.
I think the thing to be concerned about is some of these people who are not brand names, who Donald Trump might go after for, you know, anybody who's listed in Kash Patel's book as government gangsters, as being a government gangster.
Those people will be, I think, in the crosshairs. And that's something that they should be worried about. ZELENY: It also points to the fact that Donald Trump is going to be in
need of a foil. With Republicans in control of the House and Senate, who is he going to fight with?
So, having Liz Cheney to still sort of fight with is something that he can still sort of bring up and make this kind of irrelevant.
But that is one of his challenges going forward. Republicans are in control of government, so it's kind of a strange period for trying to find a sparring partner.
FINNEY: Going after Cheney is a way to go after these young women.
And I think we have to be very clear about how pathetic that would be.
HUNT: All right. Coming up here on CNN THIS MORNING, no committee assignments, no caucusing with her party. Republican Congresswoman Victoria Sparks joins us to discuss why she believes GOP leadership in Congress is running circuses.
Plus, delayed again. Those NASA astronauts stranded in space will have to wait even longer to come back to Earth. That's coming up in our morning roundup.
And staying in the fight. Kamala Harris urging young voters not to give up.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: The true test of our commitment is whether, in the face of an obstacle, do we throw up our hands, or do we roll up our sleeves?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
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[06:21:17]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) HARRIS: Let's keep fighting for the America we believe in. An America free of injustice. An America that we know can be unburdened by what has been.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: "Let's keep fighting." The words from Kamala Harris back in December of 2019, when she ended her first run for president, dropping out before voting even started in the 2020 Democratic primaries. Now, once again, she's given a pep talk to supporters as her party searches for their next standard bearer at a gathering of young Democratic leaders in Maryland yesterday.
The vice president said -- signaled she wasn't walking away.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HARRIS: Folks who have said to me that they're not sure whether they have the strength, much less the desire to stay in the fight.
But let me be very clear. No one can walk away. No one can walk away. We must stay in the fight. Every one of us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
HUNT: All right. Karen Finney, clearly, Democrats are very demoralized. And even the sort of the -- the posture from her in that speech kind of underscored the reality.
Questions about her political future, who the standard bearer may be. What do you think it does look like for Kamala Harris going forward? I mean, our Isaac Dovere reporting that her aides and team divided between whether she should run for president or -- again or run for governor of California.
FINNEY: I think some of that is also consultants who would like her to run for California, because they want to get the payout quicker. So, I'm not so sure that that's the right move. I think those are some of her California advisers. And also, some of those same people are advising Gavin Newsom. So, we'll just put the politics out there.
Just saying personally, you know, I think she should run for president again if she believes she has the energy to do it.
HUNT: You think she could win the nomination?
FINNEY: I do, but I think you have to recognize. Remember, you know, going into the second Clinton -- when he was running for reelection, our chief of staff said, it's going to be like, you know, we're going to string you up from your fingernails upside-down, you know, from your toenails upside-down. That's what it is to run for president.
It's true. I mean, it's gotten only harder. So, I -- but I also think you can't answer that question right now, because, you know, I would take the time to decide, do you have it in you to do it again? I do think she'd win the primary.
Here's the main thing. She didn't get to run the race she would want to run. She had 107 days to run, do the best she could with 107 days, with a team that was not quite hers, with a strategy that was developed for someone very different. There were very real on-the- ground consequences and frankly, a Democratic Party that had not been talking to voters for three years.
ZELENY: It's very much an open question if she would win a primary. I mean, she would certainly be one of the contenders.
I think the more immediate question is, what does she do in the next three years before that primary begins? She needs a platform.
But I'm thinking back again to, you know, she's going to be presiding over the Electoral College defeat of herself. She's going to do it with the grace, as Al Gore did. And Al Gore went out in zero two to think about running. He was exploring. Running. He decided not to. So, we will see which path she decides to go, but she will have a very
crowded fight for the nomination. No doubt about it. This is not going to be given to her.
HUNT: All right. Still ahead here on CNN THIS MORNING, trying to find out why investigators in Wisconsin are looking into how a 15-year-old girl got the gun used in a deadly school shooting.
Plus, courting Trump. Amazon's Jeff Bezos, the latest CEO heading to Mar-a-Lago to meet with the president-elect.
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[06:29:21]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And let's remind each other that we are loved, that we are valued, and we are not alone in this difficult time.
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HUNT: All right. Prayers last night for a student and teacher killed in a Wisconsin school shooting. Hundreds came together for a vigil in Madison to honor the lives that were cut short.
As CNN's Natasha Chen reports, investigators are following leads, trying to figure out why a 15-year-old girl carried out this attack.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
NATASHA CHEN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Police in Madison, Wisconsin, are urgently searching for what led a 15-year-old girl to bring a nine-millimeter handgun to school and opened fire.
Investigators say Natalie Rupnow, who went by Samantha, arrived at the Abundant Life Christian School Monday morning and killed a teacher and fellow student and wounded six others before taking her own life.
