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Today: Luigi Mangione To Appear In Court For Extradition Hearing; Fed Cuts Interest Rates, But Signals "Caution" For 2025; WSJ: How The White House Functioned With "Diminished" Biden. Aired 5:30-6a ET

Aired December 19, 2024 - 05:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[05:30:00]

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ALVIN BRAGG, MANHATTAN DISTRICT ATTORNEY: We have a voir dire process in place. I have faith in our jury system to select 12 people who can be fair and impartial. But we'll move forward, and that's something well down the road but we'll be ready when that time comes.

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KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: All right. Retired NYPD officer Jillian Snider joins us now. Jillian, good morning. Thanks very much for being here.

When we last saw Luigi Mangione on camera, he clearly was angry as he was being taken past the cameras. We will be seeing him apparently here for this courtroom -- in this courtroom in Pennsylvania. There's this question about when and whether he'll end up in New York and how quickly that may happen.

What are the challenges for police throughout this as they have to move him around, especially considering the way there has been so much -- there's been a lot of public support for him?

JILLIAN SNIDER, RETIRED NYPD OFFICER (via Webex by Cisco): Good morning, Kasie. Thanks for having me.

So obviously the NYPD is going to work very closely with Pennsylvania police depending on what the outcome of today's extradition hearing is. No matter what, if he goes back to New York today or tomorrow or in a week from now there will be close coordination between both agencies to ensure no escape. That there's no one trying to infiltrate or help him escape. So there's going to be a lot of precautionary measures taken in advance.

HUNT: What does it -- what does it say to you, and what is your sort of impression and understanding that as a -- as a former officer? Do you feel like you've seen anything like this before where -- I mean, are there other cases where the -- an alleged criminal generates this kind of sympathy from the public?

SNIDER: It's very rare. I think because of the way in which this was carried out, the target of the crime, and then also looking at the alleged offender. This is someone with no criminal background that we know of. He's young and he comes from a well to do family. He has an Ivy League education. Not someone customarily that we would believe would commit a crime this heinous.

So, no. In my career I worked in Brooklyn and the South Bronx. I never saw a crime like this.

HUNT: So let's talk about what the evidence be that they are collecting here -- in particular, questions around whether or not he was acting alone. I mean, that's what he has said, according to documents that police have recovered. But there was a cell phone recovered at the scene that had his fingerprints on it that may suggest that he was at least using that for some reason. He also, of course, was outside that hotel right at the correct time when Brian Thompson was walking into the hotel.

Is there any suggestion to you here that he may have been working with others?

SNIDER: Looking at the evidence as it stands right now, I would say there's not any direct evidence that implicates that there's an accomplice.

But we need to take a step back and we need to look again at this alleged offender. No criminal background but yet carried out a very sophisticated crime. He did countersurveillance before. He had mapped out a very elaborate and evasive escape route after. He had prepared a ghost gun. He knew the location of his target at very close to the time when his target was walking outside.

And even though his manifesto said he acted alone that doesn't mean he did act alone. My hope is that law enforcement continues to investigate. We have video surveillance of Mangione on the phone very shortly before he committed this crime, which would lead investigators to believe he was communicating with someone -- someone who could be involved.

HUNT: Very interesting.

All right, Jillian Snider for us this morning. Jillian, thanks very much for your time. I really appreciate it.

SNIDER: Thanks, Kasie.

HUNT: All right, let's turn now to this story. The Federal Reserve cut interest rates again on Wednesday, but the stock market reacted negatively to a different piece of news. During his press conference after the rate cut Federal Reserve chairman Jerome Powell signaled there will be fewer interest rate cuts next year -- just two instead of the previous forecast of four.

The news triggered a selloff on Wall Street. The Dow dropping more than 1,100 points on the day. It was also the 10th straight day of losses for the blue-chip index. That is the longest losing streak for the market since 1974. Now the chairman sounding a note of caution about moves the Federal Reserve might make next year.

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JEROME POWELL, CHAIRMAN, FEDERAL RESERVE: As long as the economy and the labor market are solid, we can be cautious about -- as we consider further cuts, which is another reason to be cautious about further moves. There's uncertainty around inflation I pointed out. It's appropriate to move cautiously. It's a new phase and we're going to be cautious about further cuts.

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HUNT: All right, joining us now to discuss is Rachel Siegel. She covers the economy for The Washington Post. Rachel, good morning.

RACHEL SIEGEL, NATIONAL BUSINESS REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Good morning, Kasie.

HUNT: Thank you so much for being here.

So it seems like Jerome Powell's word of the day was "caution." How do the markets read that?

[05:35:00]

SIEGEL: Not well, and they take that as a sign that even though the economy is very strong there's lot of reason to be optimistic about the economy next year, but they are going to be fewer interest rate cuts to come as well. And that's just because inflation is not going down as quickly or as steadily as the Federal Reserve might have otherwise hoped.

It doesn't mean that their fight against inflation is on losing ground and that they're worried that they're not going to be able to vanquish these rising prices. It's just not happening as rapidly or as steadily, and that means fewer cuts in order to offset some of that uncertainty.

HUNT: So this is likely to put Jerome Powell at odds with President- elect Donald Trump who is very interested in seeing additional rate cuts and a rising market.

How do you think those two are going to interact given this?

SIEGEL: Well, it wouldn't be the first time that they are at odds. During the first term Trump was very outspoken about his dissatisfaction with Powell at the time not doing enough to stimulate the economy and not doing enough to cut rates. And that was well before the COVID recession and the kind of inflation that we're seeing now.

Then again, Trump doesn't have the power to vanquish inflation. He doesn't control interest rates. He doesn't control mortgage rates. So these campaign promises that he's made to people to try and relieve some of those areas of strain on their budget are really in control of the Fed, and it's the Fed's job to act independently from politics to crowd out that noise. And that, as you said, is likely to put them at two opposite sides of that policymaking table, but it's not one that we expect Powell to flinch on at all.

HUNT: Well, and to that point, I mean, obviously there are other areas where Donald Trump is breaking norms on places that are supposed to be not political -- i.e., the FBI, right --

SIEGEL: Yeah.

HUNT: -- where he has nominated someone, and Christopher Wray has said that he's going to step down three years ahead of the end of his 10-year term.

Jerome Powell taking a very different approach. Let's watch what he said back right after the election. This was November 7. Let's watch Jerome Powell.

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REPORTER: Some of the president-elect's advisers have suggested that you should resign. If he asked you to leave, would you go?

POWELL: No.

REPORTER: Can you follow up on -- do you think that legally that you're not required to leave?

POWELL: No.

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SIEGEL: Powell deserves a lot of credit for being very direct and plainspoken. I think this is perhaps the best example.

This is not even something that he's entertaining. His term goes through 2026. He has said very clearly even before the results of the election that he intends to see that through.

Trump can say whatever he wants about whether that's his preference, but Powell not only says that he wants to stay but the law is on his side here -- that he can't be fired. But just because he and Trump might agree on policy differences that's not a reason that he's going to be out of his seat.

HUNT: Yeah. Well, I guess we will -- we're about to find out.

Rachel Siegel, thanks very much for being here this morning. I do appreciate it.

SIEGEL: Thanks for having me.

HUNT: All right. Coming up next on CNN THIS MORNING a brand new report out moments ago details how the White House has been functioning with an aging leader in the Oval Office. One of the reporters on that story will join us live.

Plus, the $180 million quarterback is about to be riding the bench. That's next in sports.

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[05:42:25]

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JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: (1987 speech). We said that the key to restoring confidence in our traditions and our institutions was public officials who would stand up and tell the American people exactly what they thought. I mean to be that candidate. And with the grace of God and the support of the American people I mean to be that kind of president.

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HUNT: In just one month, President Biden's winding half-century journey to the presidency will come to an end. But he still has a to- do list adding the final touches to a legacy that will now be bookended by two Trump terms. Just five months ago he was hoping to not only beat Donald Trump but also serve another four years.

New reporting from our next guest indicates that long before Biden dropped out of the 2024 race some of his closest aides were actively taking steps to manage a "diminished leader." The Wall Street Journal's Annie Linskey and others write this:

"To adapt the White House around the needs of a diminished leader, they told visitors to keep meetings focused. Interactions with senior Democratic lawmakers and some cabinet members -- including powerful secretaries such as Defense's Lloyd Austin and Treasury's Janet Yellen -- were infrequent or grew less frequent. Some legislative leaders had a hard time getting the president's ear at key moments, including ahead of the U.S.'s disastrous pullout from Afghanistan. Former administration officials said it often didn't seem like Biden had his finger on the pulse."

And joining us now is Annie Linskey. She's a reporter for The Wall Street Journal. Annie, good morning.

ANNIE LINSKEY, REPORTER, THE WALL STREET JOURNAL: Good morning.

HUNT: Thank you so much.

LINSKEY: Yeah, good to be here.

HUNT: You write that you spoke to over 50 people in reporting out this story. What did you learn about how aides were managing Biden throughout his entire presidency?

LINSKEY: Yeah. One of the major takeaways from our story is that one of the Biden -- Biden has long been an insular politician, but as he grew older and became more powerful the walls got higher, and the walls got thicker around him. And that helped shield his decline from senior Democrats who were outside the White House, but it also helped him manage and make decisions in a -- in a way to where he wasn't having to take in a lot of information from various people. But getting information flowed through key aides who he trusted who did get a lot of time with him.

But some of the pieces that were the most surprising to me just was the breadth of people who were saying that they had no access to this president or had very limited access to him.

[05:45:00]

HUNT: And these were people that ideally should have?

I mean, this is -- let me read a little bit more from your piece because you note: "Yet a sign that the bruising presidential schedule needed to be adjusted for Biden's advanced age had arisen early on -- in just the first few months of his term.

Administration officials noticed the president became tired if meetings went long and would make mistakes. And they issued a directive to some powerful lawmakers and allies seeking one-on-one time: The exchanges should be short and focused, according to people who received the message directly from White House aides. Ideally, the meeting would start later in the day, since Biden had never been at his best first thing in the morning, some of the people said. His staff made these adjustments to limit potential missteps by Biden. The president known for long and rambling sessions, at times pushed in the opposite direction, wanting or just taking more time.

The White House denied that his schedule had been altered due to his age."

LINSKEY: Yeah. We talked to a number of people who got this directive directly from White House aides saying if your boss is going to go in, it's going to be a short meeting. We've got to keep this short and, in some cases, explaining the reason why, which is he's getting tired. It's got to be short. It's got to be focused. The word "focused" came up a lot.

And to some extent, in every -- you can always say that look, a president's time is his most valuable asset, and that is true. But what was different here is just the great number of people who are having this experience who hadn't before.

I mean, we had Democratic committee chairs who spoke to us on the record to say we hadn't -- we didn't -- we didn't talk to the president. Now, in all -- in some cases they said we're OK with that.

Jim Himes from Connecticut -- as he was doing the FISA reauthorization never spoke with the president, and that was one of the most -- the biggest legislative pieces of this -- of this past year. Or Jim Himes -- or excuse me, Adam Smith just before the Afghanistan withdrawal desperately wanted to talk to the president but was unable to.

And I think with any one individual you can say well, OK, maybe the president doesn't like Adam Smith, or maybe he doesn't like Jim Himes, but when you're look at such a broad -- so many broad categories of people a pattern emerges.

HUNT: Well, and it's -- I think it might be worth noting or explaining for people who aren't just familiar -- I mean, under different or more normal circumstances these committee chairs would have the opportunity to talk to a president?

LINSKEY: Yes, absolutely. I mean, the Democratic committee chairs -- as you're going in and making a major policy shift in Afghanistan I would think normally -- and they would expect to talk to the president, particularly the chairman of the Armed Services Committee who had a deep background in Afghanistan policy.

So look, again, any individual -- an individual piece you can say look, that one person might not be the person the president wants to talk to, but when you hear it over and over and over again the pattern was clear.

And then talking to some of the senior White House officials or people who had recently left, they have confirmed this idea that the walls just got thicker. The shell got harder around him as he got older.

HUNT: One of the pieces that I found interesting is you talk about how the information that was getting to the president himself, especially negative information, seems to become more limited. And this was in a period of time where he was making a decision about running again for re-election and, of course, the American public was watching what he was doing and didn't have all of the information about his state of mind and his state of being.

How much does that limited information do you think play into the decision that he made to run for re-election and ultimately the fact that Democrats lost the White House again to Donald Trump?

LINSKEY: I mean, I feel like that's a huge issue that Democrats are rustling with right now. It really came up with the pollsters who -- he's -- the president wasn't talking to his own pollsters over the summer.

And this was becoming clear to lawmakers who were hearing him say I'm going to be fine. You have to back me. I'm going to be fine. And they were sort of saying look, it does not seem like you're getting good polling information. And we heard that he wasn't talking to his own pollsters. That information was getting filtered through the White House.

So it was a very, very insular, closed White House that has emerged.

HUNT: What role did the first lady Jill Biden play in all of this, according to your reporting?

LINSKEY: She has been his most trusted adviser. The first person that she -- he talks to when he wakes up and the last person who sees him when he goes to bed. You know, he is -- she is the person who understood the most the state that he was in. And I think that is -- she is somebody who when you talk to basically

any Democrat they ask how and why a spouse would have supported his decision to run again, it's a -- it's a fraught thing to ask. You always want to support your spouse. But that is -- she is one of the -- one of the people that Democrats really are asking a lot of questions about.

[05:50:00]

HUNT: Yeah, really fascinating reporting. And Annie, you're going to stick around and join our panel --

LINSKEY: Yes.

HUNT: -- at the top of the hour. We'll talk about this a little bit more later on.

LINSKEY: Thank you.

HUNT: Thank you.

All right, time now for sports. Falcons' quarterback Kirk Cousins speaks out for the first time since getting benched.

Carolyn Manno has this morning's CNN sports update. Carolyn, good morning.

CAROLYN MANNO, CNN SPORTS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Kasie.

Expectations were so high, as you know, after the Falcons signed Cousins to that four-year, $180 million contract with $100 million guaranteed, but he is now headed to the bench after just 14 games.

And head coach Raheem Morris said that turnovers really were the biggest factor in the decision. Cousins has thrown a league-high 16 interceptions and has 12 fumbles. That's tied for most in the league.

But the 36-year-old says he still believes in himself.

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KIRK COUSINS, QUARTERBACK, ATLANTA FALCONS: I didn't forget how to play quarterback. Certainly, turnovers were not what you want, but I didn't forget how to play. Maybe you need less confidence to not try to force the ball into tighter windows. So I don't think it's confidence as much as you've just got to make -- got to make great decisions. You've got to make great decisions all the time and if you don't you pay for it.

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MANNO: Rookie Michael Penix Jr. will lead the 7-7 Falcons for the rest of the season with a playoff berth still a possibility. And Penix told reporters where he was when he got the call that he would be the starter.

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MICHAEL PENIX JR., QUARTERBACK, ATLANTA FALCONS: I was actually shopping. I was shopping with my girlfriend. We was at Costco and I got the call. And I was actually getting a hot dog and whenever I got the call, I wasn't hungry no more, so --

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MANNO: A hot dog at Costco around the holidays relatable.

Meantime, as another disappointing Jets season nears its end quarterback Aaron Rodgers contemplating his future in football. The 41-year-old said he's not sure whether he'll play beyond this season.

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AARON RODGERS, QUARTERBACK, NEW YORK JETS: I'm going to take some time after the year, unless I get released right away. But I'll still take some time on whether or not I want to play. But I'll take some time and get away from it either way.

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MANNO: The Jets 4-10 out of the playoff hunt for a 14th straight year. That is the longest active postseason drought in all of the major North American sports leagues.

And check this out. College football's bowl season in full swing. UNLV squaring off against Cal in the L.A. Bowl last night. The Rebels pulling off one of the best fake punts you'll ever see. Down 10-7 with the ball at their own 39-yardline early in the second quarter, Marshall Nichols tosses a two-handed chest pass to defensive back Cameron Oliver who ran it all the way to the red zone. UNLV would score a touchdown on the very next play in route to a 24-13 win.

And a big congratulations to James Madison for winning its first bowl game in school history. This was something of a shootout Wednesday night against Western Kentucky in the Boca Raton Bowl.

Backup Billy Atkins hadn't started since 2022. He capped a late 75- yard drive with a 21-yard toss to Taylor Tompkins for the touchdown and the lead with just over nine minutes to go. So the Dukes managed 214 yards on the ground, 182 yards passing in the 27-17 win.

And as we officially head into the expanded 12-team college football playoff here is a look at the first round. Notre Dame hosting Indiana tomorrow night in South Bend. The winner will face Georgia. Everybody else kicking off on Saturday.

And Kasie, if you see our colleague Jim Acosta with a big smile ear- to-ear somewhere today in D.C., I think that has something to do with James Madison. A proud former Duke really happy about getting that bowl win. But that was fun to see.

HUNT: Fair enough, for sure.

All right, Carolyn. Thank you very much for that. I appreciate it.

In our next hour here on CNN THIS MORNING a stunning reversal. After initially voting no the House Ethics Committee decides to release its report on Matt Gaetz.

Plus, the GOP at odds over a new bill to fund the government. That is an understatement. With slim margins they're going to need to some Democrats on their side. Democratic Congresswoman Melanie Stansbury will be here to discuss.

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SEN. KEVIN CRAMER (R-ND): Now here we are just on the eve of Christmas Eve, and they have to start all over. It's all very unrealistic. But again, never underestimate what a member of Congress will do the day before Christmas.

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[05:58:25]

HUNT: It's Thursday, December 19. Right now on CNN THIS MORNING --

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We just won the elections. We have a mandate and he's giving away the farm.

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HUNT: Shutdown standoff. A GOP-backed spending bill scrapped after Donald Trump and Elon Musk criticized the deal.

Plus --

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MATT GAETZ, (R) FORMER CONGRESSMAN: Like, if the things that the House Ethics report were true, I would be under indictment and probably in a prison cell.

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HUNT: An abrupt turn. The House Ethics Committee deciding to release its report on Matt Gaetz after all.

And --

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm so mad at these politicians who wrote this law thinking that TikTok was just some silly dancing app.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HUNT: TikTok under threat. The Supreme Court will now hear arguments on whether the app should be banned next month.

And later, Amazon on strike. Workers planning to walk off the job this morning right in the middle of the most critical holiday shopping days.

All right, 6:00 a.m. on the East Coast. A live look at Capitol Hill, the scene of all the action this week, for better or for worse. Good morning, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. It's wonderful to have you with us.

Governing by tweet. Donald Trump has yet to be sworn in and already a day of tweeting posting derailed the funding bill that would have kept the government's light on through Christmas. What does that remind you of?

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SEN. CHUCK GRASSLEY (R-IA): I haven't read his tweets so I'm not going to comment on something I haven't read.

REP. JEFF FLAKE (R-AZ): To find out you've been fired by tweet is not exactly reassuring.

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