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Annie Linskey is Interviewed about President Biden's Presidency; Rep. Melanie STANSBURY (D-MN) is Interviewed about a Spending Deal; Supreme Court to Hear TikTok Case. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired December 19, 2024 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:30:58]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And we left the country in better shape than we found it. Today, I can say without - with every fiber in my being, with all my heart, the answer to that question is a resounding yes. Yes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: That's the lasting legacy that Joe Biden has - and his supporters are hoping for. The reality is, the president leaves office next month with historically low approval ratings. And new reporting from "The Wall Street Journal" just out this morning, shedding light on the challenges that Biden and his handlers have faced during his presidency. A presidency that was often characterized by missteps and more than a few uncomfortable moments.

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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (July 17, 2024): Now, I want to hand it over to the president of Ukraine, who has as much courage as he has determination. Ladies and gentlemen, President Putin.

BIDEN (October 30, 2024): Just the other day, a speaker at his rally called Puerto Rico a floating island of garbage.

The only garbage I see floating out there is his supporters.

BIDEN (June 27, 2024): Making sure that we're able to make every single solitary person eligible for what I've been able to do with the - with the Covid - excuse me, with dealing with everything we have to do with - look, if - we finally beat Medicare.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Our next guest, Annie Linskey, is the co-author of a new report out this morning in "The Wall Street Journal." She and her colleagues write this, quote, "to adapt the White House around the needs of a diminished leader, they told visitors to keep meetings focused. Interactions with senior Democratic lawmakers and some cabinet members, including powerful secretaries such as Defense's Lloyd Austin and Treasury's Janet Yellen, were infrequent or grew less frequent. Some legislative leaders had a hard time getting the president's ear at key moments, including ahead of the U.S.' disastrous pullout from Afghanistan. Former administration officials said it often didn't seem like Biden had his finger on the pulse."

Our panel is still here.

And, Annie, you, of course, are the lead author on this story with your colleagues. You talked to over 50 people for this story. Tell us a little bit more about what you learned.

ANNIE LINSKEY, REPORTER, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": Yes, well, we were going - trying to get a sense for every - you know, every White House is set up differently to take into consideration the strengths and weaknesses of the leader in charge. And in this case, there's a leader who is aging very visibly right in front of our eyes. And so, what we found is that the shell around Biden was kind of always heard, but became harder and thicker, and the walls became taller.

And the system that was set up, even his critics would say enabled him to make decisions that needed to be made and to govern effectively. But that - that wall also blocked from view and from the American people the decline that he was experiencing.

HUNT: You write a little bit about the kind of information that was getting through to the president, especially as he was making his decision about whether he was going to run for re-election. What did you learn about that, and how do you think it impacted that decision, which ultimately could be why, you know, Donald Trump is coming back to the White House?

LINSKEY: Yes. I mean, you know, as he was going through his presidency, there were people who told us that he wouldn't always get negative press clippings. So, if he had made a gaffe at an event, the clippings that sort of focus on the gaffe would be not included. And you'd have to go to kind of great lengths to find a clipping that didn't include the gaffe. So, he was not always seeing that. Or, especially over the summer, he wasn't talking to his pollsters. This is sort of a key thing that most presidents do, and that Joe Biden did -

HUNT: Most presidents are obsessed with it.

LINSKEY: Obsessed with. And -

HUNT: Like -

LINSKEY: And, you know, he's getting this information filtered through his senior staff. So there's a - there was a wall around him. And, you know, in many ways, for his presidency, it - it worked, but it did prevent him from getting a variety of points of views that weren't coming through, just the key staffers who he trusted and who would spend a lot of time with him.

[06:35:06] HUNT: Yes.

Kate Bedingfield, I realize this is a tricky position for you because you were inside the White House during some period of this time. What Annie's story outlines is that some of these measures around protecting the president started a lot earlier than maybe some expected, including - I mean the pullout from Afghanistan was 2021. I mean, what light can you shed on what was going on inside the White House at this time?

KATE BEDINGFIELD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, I think a couple things. First of all, complaints about not getting enough access to the president are as old as the republic. I mean members of Congress are constantly complaining about not getting access to the president. I mean that is a time-honored complaint that people have when they feel like they have expertise, they have political perspective that should be shared. So, I think we should maintain that perspective because it is - you know, there's always somebody -

HUNT: Well, they write about, for example, the House Armed Services chairman, during the Afghanistan pullout, which is -

BEDINGFIELD: But my experience - so I - so the second thing I was going to say.

HUNT: Yes.

BEDINGFIELD: I was there during the Afghanistan withdrawal. I spent hours and hours in the Situation Room with Joe Biden and the national security team during the withdrawal.

My experience was that he was hearing from all quarters. Now, it is true that there are - again, there will - members of Congress who I'm sure didn't feel like they got enough access because, ultimately, what the president's doing in moments of crisis, and - and every day, but in moments of crisis, is taking information, filtering it in, trying to make a principled and effective decision based on the input of the core people around him. Hearing from every single person in Washington who has a perspective can actually be muddying and damaging and confusing.

So, I don't - I don't doubt - I certainly don't dispute that there were people who felt like they didn't have the opportunity to weigh in when they wanted to. That in and of itself is not an indicator to me of a diminished Joe Biden. I watched the president grilling his national security team, grilling the generals who were on the ground every single day during that withdrawal. And there was never a moment where he was not getting the hard information and making the hard decision.

LINSKEY: I think the difference here, though, is our reporting showed that these are some of the people who might have been - might have been grilling him and saying, is this right? Is this - this is why you should look at this. This is why you should look at this piece of information or this piece of information. And that's the exchange that was lacking according to our reporting. And I will say, it went beyond members of Congress. The lack of the,

you know, in-person and regular interactions with Janet Yellen was also something that was eye-opening to us as we were reporting it out. And even, you know, a sort of drop off in interactions with Lloyd Austin, as you're talking about a period of time where there's - Gaza is happening, Ukraine is happening. So, it's just this idea of, as the president was becoming older, a wall that is just getting bigger.

HUNT: Yes.

I mean, Kate, would you dispute the idea that the White House had to make arrangements to deal with the fact that Biden was aging? I mean, I think - I think for a lot of Americans who watch what has happened, right, I mean they had all of these Democrats, people saying to them, it's fine, it's fine, it's fine. And then he steps onto that debate stage and it's clearly not fine and people felt lied to.

BEDINGFIELD: I think there are two - I think there are two issues. One is the communications issue, which he clearly was diminished. And I mean the world saw the debate. He was clearly struggling to communicate. I think the public demands of running a successful presidential campaign and communicating effectively were clearly challenging and ultimately led him to drop out and determine that he couldn't do it.

That doesn't mean that he is not capable of making the decisions, of filtering the information, of debating his team internally. Those are two different things.

Now, obviously, in order to successfully run for president and be re- elected, you have to be able to do both. So I'm not arguing that there wasn't a, you know, a deficit there.

HUNT: Yes.

BEDINGFIELD: There obviously was.

But, you know, again, I obviously can't speak to - I left the White House in March of 2023. I can't speak to what the day to day internal interactions were like after I left. But I can tell you, from the time that I was there, that he was - he was engaged. He was asking tough questions. He was engaging in back and forth. He was meeting with Secretary Yellen, meeting with Secretary Austin, getting the PDB. That - so, I didn't - I didn't witness - that's not what I witnessed.

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Kasie, we're in this situation now where we're relying on private recountings of how this went, because we haven't seen President Biden as much publicly as we saw other presidents. I mean, at the G-20, it was his first major summit of his entire presidency where he did not have a press conference. Reporters were told that there would be opportunities to engage with him organically. There simply were not.

HUNT: Yes.

Let me pause you for one second because I actually wanted to play something and ask you about it. There was a moment on "Pod Save America," which is a coalition of former Obama advisers, not necessarily Biden - the Biden team's best friends -

BEDINGFIELD: Not always.

HUNT: But here's what they had to say, basically accusing the current president of quiet quitting.

[06:40:04]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I get - the recognition that maybe people aren't willing to hear from him is understandable that he might think that, right? The party thing I hope is not true because, I don't know, what do you guys think he could be doing?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Quiet quitting?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, I think that's what we're getting.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or - yes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That seems - that seems to be what he is doing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Oh, instead. Yes, got it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: I mean, pretty tough, but to the point that you were making, the - President Biden does seem to be stepping off the stage, even though he is still president.

TAUSCHE: Yes, I mean, he - it does have the distinct feeling of going out like a lamb instead of like a lion. And I think some of the scant interactions with the press are - are indicative of that. Clearly, we would like there to be more interactions similar to there -

HUNT: Always.

TAUSCHE: There are always more complaints from members of the press (ph). We would always like more interaction.

HUNT: Evergreen - evergreen statement.

TAUSCHE: That being said, it does feel distinctive that there has been so little interaction and so little that we've heard from him publicly.

But also to the point of members of Congress, Kate, I mean, in talking to people who were in contact with members of Congress in the wake of that disastrous debate, where they were trying to shore up support from the party, a lot of members of Congress said, we haven't seen him in a year, in some cases 18 months. We can't come to his defense because we simply haven't had an audience with them. And so, in that moment, it was really detrimental to him, and for the remainder of his term and his re-election bid, to not have had those interactions in that moment.

Now, I mean, there are real - real concerns, based on the dynamic politically. Would the White House love to have another state dinner? Yes. Do any world leaders want to come and be there with him? No. I mean, would he have loved to have funding for the cancer moonshot extended as part of this package? Yes. Is that where Congress is? No. So, there's a real political dynamic to all of this too that's impacting it.

HUNT: Yes.

TAUSCHE: But it's because of the outcome of the election, too.

HUNT: Interesting.

Brad, you want the last word?

BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, it's a - it's a deeply reported story by Annie, and a great story. But I will also note that conservatives, and a lot of people in the conservative press were saying some of these things in real time, and it was blown off. I think maybe perhaps the White House press corps was not inquisitive enough to see Joe Biden's status in real time.

HUNT: Well, certainly we all learned a lot on the debate stage in Atlanta. And, obviously, here we are now.

Up next on CNN THIS MORNING, the president-elect sinks a Republican- backed spending bill. And now, just two days before a government shutdown deadline, lawmakers have returned to square one. Democratic Congresswoman Melanie Stansbury will be here to discuss.

Plus, Amazon workers hit the picket line while in the thick of holiday shopping.

And just a month out from a TikTok ban, could the Supreme Court save the app?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENT-ELECT: I have a warm spot in my heart for TikTok because I won youth by 34 points. And there are those that say that TikTok has something to do with that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[06:47:03]

HUNT: All right, welcome back.

We're turning now to a story that you may have heard us tell a couple of times before.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT (November 14, 2023): There are just a few days to go before another possible government shutdown.

HUNT (February 27, 2024): We're on shutdown watch on The Hill again.

HUNT (March 19, 2024): Lawmakers, once again, scrambling to head off a government shutdown. Tell me if you've heard this before.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Yet another funding fight on Capitol Hill. The bipartisan plan that would have averted a government shutdown in the short term was tanked by President-elect Donald Trump and his ally, Elon Musk. The House speaker, Mike Johnson, left to come up with an entirely new plan or rely on Democrats to get a deal across the finish line. The Democrats' message seems to be at this point, take it or leave it.

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REP. JASMINE CROCKETT (D-TX): There is no fixing this without the Democrats. We have seen this over and over. And I'm just going to sit back and sip my tea and wait on them to figure it out.

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HUNT: Joining us now, Democratic Congresswoman Melanie Stansbury of New Mexico.

Congresswoman, thanks very much for being here.

REP. MELANIE STANSBURY (D-NM): Great to be here.

HUNT: Are, at this point, and I know you're heading into meetings this morning to learn more about this, what are Democrats thinking about whether or not to support? There are two questions, it seems, at hand. And let's just start with the idea of a clean - what's known as a clean continuing resolution that would fund the government at current levels for a short period of time to avert a shutdown. Do you think Democrats could get on board with that?

STANSBURY: Well, first of all, I think it's important to understand that we had a bipartisan deal. And, in fact, up until the afternoon yesterday, when Republicans started responding to Elon Musk's tweets, and then Donald Trump weighed in. The deal was set in. And the table was set.

So, you know, I think our leadership has been very clear. They've reneged on the deal that they've already spent days negotiating. And we want to see, you know, them pass a bill that the American people have asked them to.

Now, I think it's really important in this moment to recognize that Elon Musk is a billionaire. He is not an elected official. And this is the chaos that we knew was going to come with the Trump administration, that they were going to try to rule by tweet. And we saw them sink this funding bill yesterday. And now, at the 11th hour, they're asking for debt ceiling negotiations. We're less than 48 hours away from a government shutdown, 72 hours. And you cannot run the world's greatest democracy by tweet.

And so, we need some serious grownups at the table. And Mike Johnson needs to come back and meet with our leadership and have serious negotiations again.

HUNT: Is there any world where Democrats could support lifting the debt ceiling to avoid a government shutdown?

STANSBURY: The debt ceiling was originally scheduled to be renegotiated next summer. This has nothing to do with the current funding fight. What we know is that Donald Trump plans to do a tax reconciliation bill in the coming weeks and months, and they're looking for room in the budget so that he can give big tax giveaways to his billionaire friends. And we know that that's really kind of the backstory here.

[06:50:02]

So, you know, there's not time to do debt ceiling negotiations literally as we are hours away from a funding shutdown for our government. This is absolutely absurd. This is - this is not where we're at. They're not even on the map right now. So, we got to get back to getting the government funded. And we got to make sure that the American people get their paychecks. That, you know, there's access to food assistance, that all the things that we know are vital government services continue through the holidays. And to hold the American people hostage right before the holidays is unconscionable.

HUNT: It - we have learned some things about Donald Trump and his stomach for government shutdowns, which is that it is certainly stronger than even, say, Mitch McConnell, who thinks Republicans always get blamed. If there were to be a government shutdown, it would still be on President Biden's watch. Do you think Democrats would deserve any of the blame for a shutdown if one happens?

STANSBURY: Well, I mean, first of all, this is not on Biden's watch. This is on Mike Johnson's watch. The fact that he cannot hold his own raucous caucus together in the final days, right before the Christmas holidays, as Donald Trump and Elon Musk are tweeting, I think shows the inherent weakness of the GOP right now and the fact that they barely even have a coalition. You know, they're out here trying to claim that they have a mandate and they can't even keep their own members at the table for half a day to get a vote done.

So, this is on them. This is on their own lack of ability to govern and their inability to actually do things that serve the American people. This is the least productive Congress since before the great depression. And that's wholly on Mike Johnson.

But I'm going to say this, Democrats are the grownups in the room. We're going to keep showing up. We're going to keep fighting for the American people. And we're going to make sure that we get something substantive done, and we're going to hold the line. HUNT: Would you like to see your leaders be willing to back a clean

extension of government funding, or would you prefer that they refuse to do that in light of the bipartisan negotiations?

STANSBURY: Our leadership has literally been in the trenches for days and weeks, holding them to account. And so we're going to continue to hold the line to make sure that the Republicans, who are responsible for the House floor's procedures over the coming days, do the right thing for the American people. They keep the government operational, that they pass emergency funding for all of the millions of Americans who've been impacted by fires and floods and tornadoes, and that we keep the government open over the holidays. And so that means hanging tough and making sure that we don't completely collapse under a tweet storm by Elon Musk.

HUNT: All right, Congresswoman Melanie Stansbury, very grateful to have you on the show. I really appreciate it. I hope you'll come back soon.

STANSBURY: Absolutely.

HUNT: All right, 52 minutes past the hour. Here's your morning roundup.

The 26-year-old man accused of killing the UnitedHealthcare CEO due in a Pennsylvania court today where he could be extradited to New York. Luigi Mangione faces 11 charges, including murder, as an act of terrorism. He's also reportedly expected to face federal charges. His attorney said that possible decision would, quote, "pile on top of an already overcharged case," and they will fight the charges.

Fifteen-year-old Natalie Rupnow, who killed a teacher and a student at her school in Wisconsin, was in contact with a man in California who planned to attack a government building. That is according to officials and court documents. A judge issuing a restraining order against the 20-year-old man under California's red flag law that requires him to turn in his guns and ammunition to police within 48 hours. The order claims he was messaging Rupnow, discussing plans of a mass shooting.

The CDC confirms the first severe case of bird flu in the United States. Officials say an elderly patient in Louisiana was exposed to sick and dead birds in backyard flocks. The patient is experiencing severe respiratory illness and is hospitalized in critical condition.

This morning, Amazon workers authorizing a strike at several warehouses across the country less than a week out from Christmas. The teamsters union is calling it the largest strike against the retailer in history. The union claims that Amazon missed a deadline to negotiate contracts. The teamsters president said in a statement, quote, "if your package is delayed during the holidays, you can blame Amazon's insatiable greed." Amazon says its operations will not be impacted, with teamsters making up just 1 percent of the company's workforce.

All right, let's turn now to this. The Supreme Court, where justices yesterday agreed to weigh in on the controversial law that says TikTok must be banned unless the company is sold.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I learn a ton here. I also make part of my living here on TikTok.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm really worried, like the rest of you all are.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: TikTok is getting banned, and I'm not going to have a job next month. That's facts. So, how do I become a farmer?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can't have anything fun, can we? We can't have anything fun. We - ah.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[06:55:07]

HUNT: OK, TikTokers are once again fearful that their beloved app - you can see how much they love it in those clips - for many, it is their source of income. They're worried it will disappear. And the court is set to hear arguments just days before the ban is supposed to take effect on January 19th. TikTok lawyers hoping to extend that deadline in hopes the next administration might come to their rescue. Even though Trump himself once looked to ban TikTok over security concerns about its Chinese parent company, his attitude toward the app this past week seems to have softened.

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DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENT-ELECT (September 10, 2020): We'll either close up TikTok in this country for security reasons, or it will be sold.

TRUMP (December 16, 2024): We'll take a look at TikTok. You know, I have a warm spot in my heart for TikTok because I won youth by 34 points. And there are those that say that TikTok has something to do with that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Didn't win youth by 34 points.

But our panel has returned to discuss this further.

First of all, I should admit that I am not - I'm sort of on - a little bit on TikTok, but I don't share the same, Kate, attachment to the app as some of those people that we saw.

BEDINGFIELD: Yes.

HUNT: Clearly there is a lot of concern out there. But the president- elect has gone back and forth on this. Now, the Supreme Court is going to weigh in.

Why do you think Trump is moving? Like, what is it about the politics of this?

BEDINGFIELD: Well, it's interesting because this is actually an issue where there's bipartisan support for the ban. There's a - there's bipartisan recognition that - that the data that is provided to a Chinese-owned entity as a result of Americans using TikTok is potentially problematic.

So, I mean, look, the most cynical take is, you know, Trump met with investors, donors, over the course of this campaign who have a financial interest in TikTok continuing to operate. That's the most cynical take.

But I think there's also - I think what he said about, you know, he believes he won the youth vote in part because of TikTok is also the huge motivator here. He's like, wait a minute, this was good for me. I don't want to ban it. Everything through the lens of Donald Trump always.

HUNT: (INAUDIBLE).

TODD: I don't think that's it. I think it's - I think that that it's because he views them a competitor to Facebook, who he views as hostile to him, historically. And so he's trying to - he thinks anything that weakens TikTok, strengthens Facebook in his eyes.

But I think you're right, this is one of the few bipartisan issues in Washington that unites people on the far left and on the far right. And I think TikTok is in trouble. I mean, they don't have to close down, they just have to sell it to a U.S.-owned company. Easier said than done.

HUNT: Right.

TAUSCHE: The national security concerns were that the Chinese owners were tweaking the algorithm to serve unhealthy or, in some cases, damaging content to the U.S. users who were using it. Now you have Trump, who's very close to Elon Musk, who owns his own media company, with questions about how its algorithm is functioning. And so there is a little bit of a debate there.

But you also have people very close to Trump who are involved here. Kellyanne Conway is lobbying for the company. His former treasury secretary is trying to mount a bid for the company. And perhaps one of the outcomes here that would allow him to have his cake and eat it, too, is to get beyond that January 19th date, and instead of banning it, allow someone to buy it.

HUNT: Yes.

LINSKEY: Yes.

HUNT: Well, and, Annie, I remember too when this was - the debate was going on, congressional offices were flooded with calls from people on TikTok.

LINSKEY: Yes. HUNT: And like, it did not help TikTok's case.

LINSKEY: Right. Right. I mean I think -

HUNT: Right. Because it was demonstrating, this is how this app can actually influence the politics here.

LINSKEY: The power of it. Right. I do - I feel like every, you know, every member who goes in for a closed-door national security briefing about this app comes out pretty horrified.

So, you know, there's that. And there's also just the, you know, by TikTok turning its power against Congress, they realized, oh, my gosh, this is what a foreign government can do. And so, you know, that's not - not a lesson they're going to forget.

HUNT: Yes. All right, I will leave you with this.

He has been a bodybuilder, a governor, and, of course, the terminator.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ARNOLD SCHWARZENEGGER, ACTOR, "THE TERMINATOR": I'll be back.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: But now he's back as Santa Claus. Arnold Schwarzenegger channeling the man with the red suit and the white beard in a new film called "The Man with The Bag." It is being shot in New York right now. The story line has Santa turning to his naughty list to find a former thief in order to get his stolen magic bag of toys. And this is not the first time that Arnold has donned the red suit. In 2000, the Austrian actor played Santa for kids at a food and toy drive in Los Angeles. That's nice. And, of course, he is not new to Christmas movies. He starred in "Jingle All the Way." As a child of the '90s, I remember this well. Schwarzenegger now joins a long list of celebrities to play father Christmas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TIM ALLEN, ACTOR: If something should happen to me, put on my suit, the reindeer will know what to do.

Yes, right.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: That was Tim Allen playing Santa Claus in "The Santa Clause" with an e.

Billy Bob Thornton took a different approach. You may remember "Bad Santa."

[07:00:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BILLY BOB THORNTON, ACTOR: Next. Oh, good. What do you want? What do you want? What are you doing?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Oh, God.

Who's your favorite celebrity Santa Claus? I - that's disgusting. That's disgusting, but -

TAUSCHE: Tim - Tim Allen.

HUNT: I like Tim Allen.

TODD: I'm going to have a hard time voting it's Billy Bob Thornton and (INAUDIBLE). I know that's unpopular.

HUNT: All right, guys, thank you very much for joining us today.

Thanks to all of you for joining us as well. I'm Kasie Hunt. Don't go anywhere. "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.