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Rep. Jake Auchincloss (D-MA) is Interviewed about Congress to Certify Election; Mark McKinnon is Interviewed about Trump Nominees; Trump Promises to Pardon January 6th Rioters; Cartoonist Resigns over Satirical Cartoon. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired January 06, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: Faces its first big hurdle, Monday morning traffic. It's second test will be Donald Trump.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Donald Trump is a New Yorker. His office buildings, and he still owns a few, are filled with people who take mass transit, and I think he understands what traffic is doing to our city.

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SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): I feel very strongly that we have made major shifts. What happened last time where an officer's words haunt me forever on the police line said, "does anyone have a plan?

[06:35:08]

Does anyone have a plan? " And the answer from the leadership back then was, no. Now, we have clear leadership in place.

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HUNT: Lawmakers and security officials taking extra precautions to ensure that today will not be a repeat of January 6, 2021, here in Washington. The snowy Capitol this morning equipped with extra fencing and law enforcement as Congress convenes to certify the 2024 presidential election.

For some lawmakers, like our next guest, January 6, 2021, was the first day undertaking official acts as a new member of Congress. Many of them arrived in Washington bright-eyed about enacting change for their constituents, only to be met by scenes like this.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: For members, the door is barricaded. There's - people flooding the hallways outside. We have no way out. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) the communists - the communists and the

globalists that this is our nation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: In light of the four-year anniversary of the violent Capitol attack, President Joe Biden offered this piece of advice to this Congress' new members.

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JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We gather to certify the results on a free and fair presidential election and ensure a peaceful transfer of power. It's a day that most of our history we took for granted, the 6th. But I hope we never take it for granted again.

My advice is you is, embrace the institution you serve. I really mean it. And prove it. Don't - don't tear it down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Joining us now to discuss, Democratic Congressman Jake Auchincloss of Massachusetts.

Congressman, good morning. Wonderful to see you.

REP. JAKE AUCHINCLOSS, (D-MA): Good morning, Kasie.

HUNT: So, this was January 6, 2021. You had been sworn in a handful of days earlier as a brand- new member of Congress. Could you have imagined, on that day, on January 6, 2021, that we would be here today certifying Donald Trump being re-elected as president of the United States?

AUCHINCLOSS: No. It was a devastating day for our democracy. And what Joe Biden said, I think, are - are wise words. When George Washington first handed off power, it shocked the world. And when John Adams, after the - after the country's first contested election, handed off power to Thomas Jefferson, it shocked the world and impressed the world all over again.

And I grew up with pictures of those founding fathers on my bedroom wall. I swore an oath to the Constitution as a Marine officer. And I came to Congress really worshipping those hallowed halls. And to see them defiled by those insurrectionists was a terrible day.

And now I'm back here, four years later, on a snowstorm because I'm going to watch Kamala Harris certify her own defeat in an act of patriotism that Donald Trump just could never understand.

HUNT: What does it say about our country, in your view, that it has played out this way?

AUCHINCLOSS: I think that the country takes for granted that members of Congress walked back into those chambers on January 6th and certified the election results. And it allowed Americans to move on to concerns about the economy, to concerns about border security, because they are able to presume that our institutional and constitutional order has been taken care of.

And that's a good thing. Today should be boring. But as Joe Biden said, we should also remember that we have to protect that transfer of power every four years. And we also need to remember those officers who lost their lives on January 6th because the next president aided and abetted their murder, and their families have not gotten the justice they deserve.

HUNT: What is it, do you think, that convinced Americans that this shouldn't be their top of mind voting issue, or even a top of mind voting issue? Was it, you know, efforts by President Trump, President- elect Trump, to reexplain it to people, or was it something else?

AUCHINCLOSS: No, I think January 6th remains unpopular. I think the attempted insurrection on January 6th is a mark of dishonor upon the American republic. And actually a majority of voters recognize that. And a significant number of Republicans recognize that. It just was overshadowed by other, more pressing and salient issues.

And the reason that it became less salient is that the American electorate has confidence that, frankly, Democrats are going to protect the peaceful transfer of power. They know that we'll respect the rules of the game, win or lose.

HUNT: Do you think that the country - and this, of course, is set to be Donald Trump's last term, right, constitutionally speaking. It would be his second term. What level of risk is there still to the country, to the peaceful transfer of power? Clearly Democrats today want to make - to demonstrate that you all are willing to and able to continue the peaceful transfer of power, but do you have questions about whether it will remain that way in the future?

AUCHINCLOSS: I think we always have to be on guard. I'm watching two things in particular. One, I am watching the politicization of the military.

[06:40:01]

Of course, the commander in chief has important latitude to establish officers who he thinks are fit for service. But if he's trying to politicize the promotion process, we're going to undo a really important 250 year tradition of a non-partisan military. And, number two, I'm watching his sons. Donald Trump Jr., I think, wants to build a dynasty on the back of his father and is going to be looking for opportunities of nepotism to establish himself as the heir apparent.

HUNT: So - so, you - you think that Donald Trump Jr. may try to - to take advantage of his father's name potentially outside of our political system, inside our political system? What are you saying?

AUCHINCLOSS: I don't know how they're going to connive it. What I do know is that the Trump family views politics as a family business, and one in which they want to reward each other, their spouses, their friends. I mean J.D. Vance got into the position he's in because he befriended Donald Trump's sons. And I think what we want to avoid is what we see happen in other countries, including other democracies, where one family captures political institutions and it starts to become dynastic. That's unhealthy. We want competition and choice in all of our elections.

HUNT: All right, Congressman Jake Auchincloss, thanks for being here this morning. Appreciate your time.

AUCHINCLOSS: Good morning.

HUNT: All right, after the break here on CNN THIS MORNING, a possible political shakeup coming to America's neighbor to the north. Canadas Prime Minister Justin Trudeau reportedly set to step down.

Plus, with two weeks to Inauguration Day, Donald Trump's allies trying to fast track his nominees. Why some say getting the confirmations done is now more urgent than ever. Mark McKinnon joins us next to discuss.

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[06:46:06]

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NIKKI GLASER, HOST, GOLDEN GLOBES: The bear, the penguin, baby reindeer, these are not just things found in RFK's freezer, these are TV shows nominated today.

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HUNT: Trump's pick for Health and Human Services secretary getting, shall we say, a shout-out from comedian Nikki Glaser at the Golden Globes last night. Kennedy is among the Trump cabinet nominees expected to meet with senators on Capitol Hill soon in preparation for confirmation hearings that could begin as early as next week. Though several of Trump's nominees remain embroiled in partisan controversy, some of Trump's Senate allies say that the New Year's Day terror attack in New Orleans has added a sense of urgency to the confirmation process.

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SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I want to do them sooner rather than later. When President Trump left office, we had the most se cure border in American history, the caliphate was destroyed, ISIS was destroyed and Iran was in a box, we killed Soleimani the Iranian Revolutionary Guard leader. The last four years have been a freaking disaster.

We need them all. Get it done. We've got to get it done. We're under attack here.

MARIA BARTIROMO, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: So, you're - so - so you're -

GRAHAM: We're at war. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right, joining us now, former adviser to George W. Bush and John McCain, Mark McKinnon. He is also the creator of Paramount's "The Circus."

Mark, Happy New Year. Always great to see you.

Let's - let's start on the nominees. I also want to talk to you about January 6th and everything that that means. But this argument that what we saw in New Orleans is going to try to - is going to put pressure on them to get these national security nominees, do you think that's true when the rubber meets the road politically?

MARK MCKINNON, CREATOR, "THE CIRCUS": I think that's true, but I also think there was a sense of urgency anyway, Kasie. There's such a marked difference between now and eight years ago. I was at the hotel victory night in New York with Trump. And among the surprised people in the room was Donald Trump. It reminded me of the old Robert Redford movie, "The Candidate," where, at the end, after he's elected, he turns and says, "what do we do now?"

Well, he knows what he wants to do now. He's coming in with a team and a plan and he's been through the drill before. And I think the - the Matt Gaetz disaster really helped sort of clear the debris and gave everybody - Republicans anyway to say, listen, you know, we - we took care of the bad company and - but now we've got business to do. And the terrorist attack just, again, gives people like Lindsey Graham and others more urgency to get this thing done.

HUNT: So, Mark, let's talk about January 6th. I am interested in your kind of reflections on where we've come to. You know, we've been playing images from - from that day in 2021 and talking about it through the morning.

Obviously, now Donald Trump's election set to be certified. He'll then stand on the Capitol steps and be inaugurated on January 20th.

When you think about that arc of history, what goes through your mind, and how do you think we ended up here?

MCKINNON: Well, I'll tell you what goes through my mind is - is, is 2000 - the 2000 election with - with George W. Bush and - and Al Gore, when - when an election was decided by less than 1,000 votes, 450 something votes, and we had a peaceful transfer of power then when - I mean imagine if this - if an election today were really down to that number of votes. And so, people like Al Gore and others, you know, upheld the Constitution. And we saw, you know - so, I'm really struck by the notion today that Kamala Harris will be, you know, serving in that position that Mike Pence did, and upheld the Constitution.

And so, you know, it's a - it's a marked reminder of how important this peaceful transfer of power is. We've had it through history. You know, I saw it in 2000. We're seeing it today. But we didn't see it four years ago. And so I hope that this will just remind everybody, but this - that this is how it's supposed to work. HUNT: One of the things we've heard, Mark, from Donald Trump is that

he plans to pardon some of the people who were at the Capitol that day.

[06:50:06]

Let's listen to what he said about this in December. Take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KRISTEN WELKER, NBC NEWS HOST: You promised to pardon those who attacked the Capitol on January 6th. Are you still vowing to follow through with that promise?

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENT-ELECT: We're looking at it right now. Most likely, yes. These people are living in hell.

WELKER: Let me just -

TRUMP: And I think it's very unfair.

WELKER: But - but - but let me -

TRUMP: So, yes, most likely I'll do it very quickly.

I'm going to be acting very quickly.

WELKER: Within your first 100 days, first day?

TRUMP: First day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: First day, he says.

Mark, what do you think the politics of this are for him? I mean there - there are a range of offenses, right, that people were charged with and convicted of or pled guilty to, for violence to trespassing. If Donald Trump goes through with this, is he going to pay a political price? Will Republicans pay a political price?

MCKINNON: I - I - listen, I think he's going to try a hybrid. The politics are fraught both ways. I mean his base, you know, believes him when he says that he's going to do the pardon, so he's got to make good on the - on that promise.

On the other hand, it's only going to drag up those violent images of people attacking police, Kasie. And so, I think what's going to happen is, he's going to find the lesser offenders, pardon those people, and the people who, you know, where there was clear evidence of attacking or assaulting officers at the Capitol, it will be a whole different story, I believe.

HUNT: Yes. Mark, the other, of course, aspect of this is those who then went on to investigate what happened that day, the January 6th Committee. Trump has also talked about what he wants to do there, or what those people deserve.

Let's watch what he said about that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENT-ELECT: Everybody on that committee -

KRISTEN WELKER, NBC NEWS HOST: We're going to -

TRUMP: For what they did -

WELKER: Yes.

TRUMP: Honestly, they should go to jail.

WELKER You think they should go to jail?

TRUMP: I think everybody on the - anybody that voted in favor -

WELKER: Are you going to direct your FBI director -

TRUMP: No.

WELKER: Or your attorney general -

TRUMP: No.

WELKER: To send them to jail?

TRUMP: No, not at all. I think that they'll have to look at that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: So, what about this particular piece of it, if he moves forward with some of the things he suggested that he wants to, what does that mean for the country, and what is the political impact? Two different things I would say.

MCKINNON: Yes. Well, this - this is - Kasie, this is where I don't think he'll be able to resist his impulse. He wants to punish his opponents and his enemies, including - and especially people like Liz Cheney. And this is something where the Constitution is very clear. But this is also something where people like Kash Patel are being appointed because Donald Trump thinks that's what they're going to do. Remember, he said, I am your retribution. So, stand by. And that's - that's what I expect to see happen on that front.

HUNT: All right, Mark McKinnon, always grateful to have you on the show, sir. Thanks for being here. See you next week, I hope.

MCKINNON: And remember, Donald Trump, what Mike Tyson said, everybody has a plan until you get punched in the face.

HUNT: You know what, good life advice, generally speaking.

Mark, this is why we love you. Thank you.

Brad Todd, I want to briefly ask you about the pardon question and what Donald Trump may do next on that. And sort of same question as - as the one that I had for Mark. Is there a political price that he will pay for that, and is there a distinction among those who have been convicted of something here?

BRAD TODD, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I think people like Enrique Tarrio, Stewart Rhodes, people who were convicted of seditious conspiracy, I know end of plotting and encouraging actual violence, I think there will be a - there is a line there. I think if it's people who pled guilty to one count of trespassing in the U.S. Capitol, who were pardoning without a permit, I think that pardoning those people will not - people not causing a political problem and probably shouldn't.

But I think the deeper you go into the worst of the offenders, the Oath Keepers, the Proud Boys, that's when Donald Trump will have a political problem if he pardons them.

HUNT: Alex, what's - what's your sense going forward on going after members of the January 6th Committee, how Democrats might respond to that, and whether Republicans would be willing to go along with it?

ALEX THOMPSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I think you could - I mean there's pressure on Joe Biden to pardon some of those people for this exact reason. Now, Trump is saying, I'm not going to direct people. But in the first term he often directed them on Twitter. So, who knows if he's actually going to restrain himself. But also, these nominees probably don't have to be instructed to start investigating those people. That's the reason why he picked them because they are in ideological alignment.

HUNT: Doug, what does it mean, do you think?

DOUG HEYE, FORMER REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, Donald Trump has a pretty aggressive legislative agenda, right? And we're talking about doing tax cuts and a big reconciliation bill in April as opposed to June or September or December. So, things like this get in the way of that. If you want to have a successful legislative agenda, don't get in your own way.

TODD: That's a good point. It's a trap. It is a trap to get stuck in the past. And Donald Trump's already overcome a lot of these things politically in his past. And he'll be more successful if he focuses on legislation -

[06:55:01]

HEYE: And that's it. How many times in politics do we hear, you know, voters want to look forward, not backwards?

TODD: Yes.

HUNT: Yes, consistently.

HEYE: Yes.

HUNT: Consistently we hear that.

OK, 54 minutes past the hour. Here's your morning roundup.

Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau expected to announce he's stepping down according to Canadian media reports. The announcement could come as soon as today. Sources said he hasn't made a final decision. Trudeau has been prime minister for nine years, but has seen his support slide in recent polls. The resignation would leave Trudeau's liberal party without a permanent leader ahead of elections set for later this year.

Commuters taking a car into Manhattan now facing another toll. A new congestion pricing fee now in effect. It will charge drivers $9 for driving in certain parts of the city at peak hours. President-elect Donald Trump vowed last year to terminate the toll in his first week in office. Guess we'll see about that.

The Golden Globes kicking off Hollywood's award season, full of glitz and glamour. But the standout moment of the night, Demi Moore winning her first award for acting for her performance in "The Substance."

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DEMI MOORE, ACTRESS: I've been doing this a long time. Like over 45 years. And this is the first time I've ever won anything as an actor. And I'm just so humbled and so grateful.

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HUNT: Awe.

"Emilia Perez" took home the most wins of the night with four trophies.

All right, let's turn now to this story. The Pulitzer Prize-winning cartoonist Ann Telnaes resigning from "The Washington Post" after the newspaper refused to publish this satirical cartoon depicting "Post" owner Jeff Bezos on bended knee in front of President-elect Trump, handing over bags of cash. Meta founder, Mark Zuckerberg, and OpenAI chief Sam Altman also in the cartoon, with a lipstick-holding "Los Angeles Times" owner Patrick Soon-Shiong and a bowing Mickey Mouse. Of course, Disney.

Talnaes had been with the paper since 2008. In a post announcing her resignation she wrote this, quote, "I have had editorial feedback and productive conversations - and some differences - about cartoons that I have submitted for publication, but in all that time I've never had a cartoon killed because of who or what I chose to aim my pen at. Until now." Last month Bezos dined with Trump at his Mar-a-Lago club in Florida

after Amazon announced they'd donate $1 million to his inauguration. He also personally made the decision to kill an indorsement for Vice President Harris for president that the newspaper's editorial board had drafted.

The CEOs of Google, Apple, TikTok, and Meta have also made the trek to Mar-a-Lago, which has prompted this election from the president-elect.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENT-ELECT: In the first term everybody was fighting me. In this term, everybody wants to be my friend. I don't know. My personality changed or something.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Everybody wants to be my friend.

Doug Heye, this, of course, you know, decision of this cartoonist, perhaps more people have seen this cartoon now than would have absent them killing this and her making this decision. What does it say about the new world that we're living in?

HEYE: Look, I think it tells exactly where the media conversation is. And I admire anybody who says, this is unacceptable to me. I'm out. But also, editorial cartooning is probably not a growth industry in American media right now. So, you know, as we see, you know, journalists - some journalists do this, what do you do after this? And, sure, your cartoon is famous right now, but what happens next week? And I don't think we know.

THOMPSON: Well, one thing, a, great cartoon. And second - and second, I also think it really shows what a different place "The Washington Post" is in comparison to the first Trump term. "The Washington Post," this was a - you know, honestly, the first Trump administration was rocket fuel for "The Washington Post." And now you are seeing them sort of in disarray. Not only the decision not to endorse, but now this. You've had a lot of people leave "The Post." And I think, you know, this Washington institution is in a very different place.

TODD: The people who left "The Post" first were the readers, the conservative readers left "The Post." And, you know, I don't want to vilify, give anybody credit

for courage here because if - now what would be real courage is if she quit because she had a conservative cartoon that was denied publication by her bosses. That would cause real courage. She's going to be lionized by journalists everywhere. She'll get an award from Columbia for this.

HUNT: Well, I mean, this seems to me to be about the owner - I mean this is about the owners of the paper who, yes, OK, it's about Trump, but, I mean, that - there does seem to be something there.

TODD: The Jeff Bezos, did - did she decide it was - when Jeff Bezos and Mark Zuckerberg, all those people were giving money to Joe Biden in the last administration, was that a subject of a cartoon? No, it was not. It was not. This is an ideological problem.

HUNT: Meghan.

TODD: And "The Post" deserves it.

MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER BIDEN WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF MESSAGE PLANNING: I just think we're running close - and I don't want to sound dramatic about state-run media. We have Elon Musk who's putting stuff out on X, and we have a lot of different things. And I just think we're getting dangerously close to, if not being objective. And I understand where you're coming from. And everyone's going to say it's always been left, it's always been more Democratic leaning. But I think when we start censoring these things, this is when we're going to get in trouble with our democracy.

[07:00:00]

HEYE: We talked a lot in this election about suburban moms and other voting demographic groups. None of them are talking about editorial cartoons. And we should remember that. This is a very D.C. conversation.

HAYS: But I think it goes more than just editorial cartoons and it goes into the coverage. When you have all these people leaving and going to different publications and you have Elon Musk doing things on X, I just think we're running into a - a place that's - this censorship piece of this. And I understand - I - again, I understand the argument's always been to the left. I totally hear what you're - or what I see Republicans say. I just think that we're running dangerously close.

HUNT: All right, we are running up against 7:00 a.m. Thank you guys for being here.

Thanks to all of you at home for joining us as well. Stay safe in the snow, if that's where you are.

I'm Kasie Hunt. Don't go anywhere. "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.