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Discussions Progress on Gaza Ceasefire Talks; Ian Bremmer is Interviewed about Global Risks; Some L.A. Schools Reopen; Newsome Responds to Criticism; Mark McKinnon is Interviewed about Confirmation Hearings. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired January 13, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: All right, welcome back.

According to a Hamas official, a ceasefire and hostage release deal in Gaza is, quote, "very close," but sticking points remain. Talks are ongoing in Qatar. President Biden and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu have been discussing the negotiations by phone. That happened on Sunday. Their first publicly confirmed conversation since October.

CNN's Jeremy Diamond live for us in Jerusalem this morning.

Jeremy, what can you tell us about the state of these talks and why they seem to be accelerating here?

JEREMY DIAMOND, CNN JERUSALEM CORRESPONDENT: Well, Kasie, it's clear that these parties are nearing the final stages of negotiations for a comprehensive ceasefire and hostage deal. But the question still remains as to whether or not they will get this deal across the finish line.

A Hamas official telling us that several sticking points still remain in these talks, including over a proposed Israeli buffer zone inside the Gaza Strip, where Israeli troops would remain. And details concerning the release of Palestinian prisoners, among several other sticking points as well.

But over the weekend, we did see some really concrete movement in the right direction towards a deal. First of all, with the Israeli prime minister agreeing to dispatch the Mossad director, David Barnea, who has led the Israeli negotiating team at key junctures in these talks in the past. He was only supposed to travel to Doha, Qatar, if indeed there had been significant progress. So, that was the first point.

We also saw President-elect Trump's incoming special envoy for the Middle East meeting with the Israeli prime minister, conveying very clearly not only the Biden administrations pressure to get a deal before January 20th, but the incoming Trump administration's position agreeing with exactly that, trying to get a deal before President- elect Trump is indeed inaugurated one week from today.

And now we are seeing all of these parties kind of rowing in the same direction, trying to get a deal in Doha, Qatar. But that doesn't mean that a deal is assured. All of the sources that I have been speaking to today have made clear that while things are very, very close here, they simply cannot guarantee an outcome at this point. And part of that stems from uncertainty over whether or not Hamas and Israel will have the political will to get a deal across the table.

And, of course, here in Israel, there is this question of politics still being at play. The Israeli prime minister, over the weekend, meeting last night, in fact, with Bezalel Smotrich, that far right finance minister who in the past has threatened to pull the rug out from underneath this coalition government if indeed the Israeli prime minister reaches out and agrees to a deal.

Today, in less than 24 hours after Smotrich met with Netanyahu, he took to Twitter to lambast this draft agreement that appears to be nearing potential conclusion, calling this deal on the table a, quote, "catastrophe," describing it as a surrender deal and urging the Israeli government to continue fighting in Gaza until Hamas fully surrenders to Israel.

So, a lot still at play here, Kasie. Certainly, some positive momentum, but uncertainty still remaining as always.

Kasie.

HUNT: And, of course, looming over all of it, the inauguration of President-elect Donald Trump, set for a week from today.

Jeremy Diamond, thanks very much for that report. I appreciate it.

All right, let's turn now to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So, is the message I want the world to hear today, America is back. America is back. Diplomacy is back at the center of our foreign policy.

As I said in my inaugural address, we will repair our alliances and engage with the world once again, not to meet yesterday's challenges, but todays and tomorrows.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Almost four years ago, President Biden gave his first foreign policy address. Later today, he will give his final one as he prepares to hand off a world order that's fraught with both familiar and new risks. Every year, the consulting firm The Eurasia Group, publishes an annual list of the year's top geopolitical risks. Among them for 2025, Donald Trump's second presidential term, artificial intelligence, a rogue Russia and a potential breakdown in U.S.-China relations. At the top of the list, though, is what the group calls the GZERO wins. They define it like this, quote, "an era where no one power or group of powers is both willing and able to drive a global agenda and maintain international order."

Joining us now to discuss is Ian Bremmer. He's the president and founder of the Eurasia Group and GZERO Media.

Sir, very grateful to have you on the program. Good morning to you.

Ian, can you talk a little bit more about what you mean by GZERO and the parallels you see between this time period and the 1930s, right before World War II broke out?

IAN BREMMER, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, EURASIA GROUP AND GZERO MEDIA: Yes, I call it a return to the law of the jungle because the United States, of course, today is in a much more powerful position, both compared to its allies, technologically, militarily, economically.

[06:35:11]

Strength of governance. I mean, you look at where South Korea or Germany or France or really - and Canada, any of the allies are right now, and the U.S. has just consolidated power with its election in a very strong executive. But also America's adversaries. Russia, in very structural and serious decline. Iran, having just lost its empire in its own region. And China, facing very serious economic challenges, the worst they've had in decades.

This is a time where the United States has actively rejected the idea that they're going to be the global policeman, or that they're going to ensure architecture for global free trade, and certainly not going to promote democracy all over the world. But the U.S. isn't becoming isolationist. It's just becoming unilateralists. And other countries are playing defense. So that - that's what we're looking at, you know, in the - in the law of the jungle, in a GZERO world, it's OK. It's actually quite good to be the apex predator. But for everyone else, it's exceptionally dangerous. And they're very vulnerable. Thats why the world order feels so much more dangerous in 2025.

HUNT: Ian, when you say in your number two risk, you talk about Donald Trump coming back into power here. I'm curious what you think is going to be the difference between Trump this time around and what we saw during his first term, and why that matters globally.

BREMMER: Well, I think there's two differences. There's one at home. And, of course, anything that happens inside the U.S. matters globally because of the knock on effects of the world's most powerful country, largest economy. One is that Trump, in his first term, didn't feel that the U.S. power ministries, the department of justice, the FBI, the IRS had been used to such great extent against him, weaponized. This time he does feel that way, right? I mean following two impeachments, following all of the cases against him, the convictions in - not just investigations. He thinks that those - that both his enemies in the Democratic Party, as well as what he calls the deep state bureaucrats inside the government, have been politicized against him. And he intends to redress that. So, that's a - that's a significant priority. It creates the possibility of a new McCarthyism against people that get sideways with President-elect Trump. That was not a priority in the first term.

But the second thing that's very important this time around is just how much more consolidated Trump's power is. Remember last time he was riding the GOP coattails, not the other way around. So, he needed Mike Pence and Gary Cohn and Nikki Haley and Mattis and Pompeo around him. And if you were a foreign leader that didn't like what Trump said, you had people you could engage with to try to stabilize the outcome. That's not true this time around. And we see that whether its Mark Zuckerberg or whether it's the Danish prime minister, when Trump goes after you, remember he said Zuck was going to be in prison, you know, so would be investigated for all of his wrongdoings. He said, I'm going to take Greenland. That makes great headlines. Those things aren't going to happen. But there's no question that Zuckerberg has changed his business model on - in a significant way in the first weeks before even Trump is president because he sees what's coming, because he knows who won.

And the same thing is true for allies of the United States around the world. So, the rule of don (ph) has much, much greater impact on others that are not directly inside that circle of power and influence than it did back in 2017, Kasie.

HUNT: Yes.

Ian, briefly, big picture here. I think that there's a general feeling among a lot of Americans of uncertainty, of instability, of living in an era that is not as secure as perhaps the era that they came from, or that they grew up from.

Do you think that's true?

BREMMER: Well, its not true in terms of violent crime in the United States, for example. It is true in terms of their vulnerability on issues like housing. But globally, it's absolutely true.

And it's funny because the big things we were talking about over the last year are, you know, in a sense, a bit less dangerous. The Middle East wars are likely to wind down this year. Gaza and Lebanon, Hezbollah. The Russia-Ukraine war is more likely to end up in ceasefire as both sides are grinding towards fewer gains and are tired and Trump wants to end it.

But - but globally, if the United States is not willing to stand up for the rule of law and the global order that the U.S. itself actually led and put together.

[06:40:07]

No one's led - lived through an environment like that. You know, countries that are, you know, doing so well very rarely say, we're going to actually destroy, we're going to take apart piece by piece our own global order. It hasn't worked for many of our citizens. They don't like it. They don't believe in it. And our leader doesn't believe in it. And there's nobody else in the world that's capable of standing up for that effectively or collectively and - and also of building a new one.

I mean, you know, when you're in a GZERO world there are three things you can do. You can either reform your institutions, you can build new ones, or you can go to war. And we're doing all three. But on balance, we're spending more time and effort and energy on the third. And so, when people, I think, feel unnerved about why the world is more dangerous in 2025, it's not just about more countries having big nuclear weapons programs, not just about cyber attacks, it's fundamentally about that big, how does - how does the world work? What are the rules? And the law of the jungle is a lot more dangerous place.

HUNT: All right, Ian Bremmer, so grateful to have you on the show, sir. I really appreciate it. I hope you'll come back.

All right, coming up next here, California Governor Gavin Newsom responds to criticism from the vice president-elect over his handling of the southern California wildfires.

Plus, the L.A. mayor acknowledging peoples' grief and shock as crews fighting the California wildfires face intensifying winds today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR KAREN BASS (D), LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA: We will be prepared, we will get through this, but it takes the unity and the spirit that I saw yesterday to make sure that Los Angeles comes out of this a much better city.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:45:52]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My neighborhood is entirely burnt down. My elementary school has probably burned down. My high school just burnt down. And my middle school might burn down.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: In the week since wildfires erupted across Los Angeles County, schools in the nation's second largest school district have remained closed. Today, all but nine are getting ready to reopen. The fire destroyed several schools in the area. The district's superintendent says they plan to help faculty, staff and students deal with the emotional toll of the fires.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALBERTO M. CARVALHO, SUPERINTENDENT, LOS ANGELES UNITED SCHOOL DISTRICT: Explaining to them that sometimes bad things happen to good people. Then telling them that support systems are there. As a family, as a school community, we're going to be there with them.

And then reassure them that tomorrow will be better than today. That things, conditions will actually improve. And our kids are resilient. Our kids are resilient. Our workforce is resilient.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right, joining us more with - joining us with more about what is happening on the ground in Pacific Palisades, CNN correspondent Michael Yoshida.

Michael, good morning.

What are you seeing on the ground there this morning?

MICHAEL YOSHIDA, CNN NEWSOURCE CORRESPONDENT: Hey, good morning, Kasie.

And when you talk about those school closures, I can tell you, just up the street from me, one of those elementary schools that is closed, will likely remain closed for some time. And it's easy to understand why. You can see what's left around me here in Pacific Palisades. Street after street look like this. These neighborhoods, just unrecognizable. You can really only tell where homes once stood by the - the chimneys that are left standing. We've been seeing this throughout the weekend, obviously throughout the morning, just this debris that's left behind following these devastating fires.

And at this point we know, two major fires, the Eaten, the Palisades, they're still burning, still largely uncontained as crews have been - been working throughout the weekend in preparation of those potentially dangerous winds that could be returning later today.

HUNT: All right, Michael Yoshida for us this morning. And a very difficult time for people there.

Michael, thanks very much.

All right, let's turn now to the politics of all of this. California Governor Gavin Newsom responded to another onslaught of criticism from President-elect Donald Trump and his allies as they blame Democrats' handling of the wildfires, slamming the government as incompetent on Sunday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. J.D. VANCE (R-OH), VICE PRESIDENT-ELECT: There was a serious lack of competent governance in California. And I think it's part of the reason why these fires have gotten so bad.

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): With respect to the future vice president, I didn't hear his remarks, but I would invite him, as I did Donald Trump, to - to visit with the community, express empathy of the scale of this tragedy, and - and be here for the American people that happen to reside here in southern California.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: This after Trump blasted Newsom and Los Angeles leaders, like Mayor Karen Bass, last week, claiming their liberal policies have made the crisis worse.

Our panel is back.

Meghan Hays, this is, obviously, this kind of disaster is a massive testing moment for any politician. This is where it gets extraordinarily real. You have seen Gavin Newsom try to be out front. He -- his, you know, videos of himself walking through the rubble, meeting with people, he did multiple national news interviews over the weekend. There's also the mayor, Karen Bass. Is the criticism that they're receiving here legit?

MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER BIDEN WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF MESSAGE PLANNING: I mean some criticism, of course, is legit. I'm not sure that this is the time to be having this criticism. I'm not sure how the governor or the mayor control 100 mile an hour winds in a drought. So, I'm not sure exactly how they were supposed to stop those things.

I also think that there has been some real misinformation and disinformation coming from the president very early on, and some of his - his friends, I guess, that - that spread some of this. It's some unfair criticism.

Of course there is criticism here. Of course that people can always do more. Millions of people are impacted by this. So, there's always going to be criticism. I'm not sure now is the time to do that. And I'm not sure that some of the criticism they're getting is fair.

HUNT: But, Matt, where has Karen Bass been through all of this? I mean, because I - you've seen a lot of Newsom. I will give him that. You know, we can - we can criticize him or, you know, you can evaluate how he's doing it.

MATT GORMAN, FORMER TIM SCOTT PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER: Yes.

HUNT: But Bass has not been out front.

GORMAN: Bass has been totally MIA. And I think it - it's - look, she - it's very clear from interactions, from the tarmac of that plane coming back from Ghana, to all the way now, she is not used to these sort of adversarial or press interactions.

[06:50:12]

Just tough questions in public life that a lot of politicians who have been through the fire tend to get. That's number one.

Number two, Gavin Newsom - look, you know, going on "Pod Save America" over the weekend I think was a massive mistake. And they had their own issues sending donations through ActBlue (ph), the Democratic Party vehicle which takes a cut of him. That's number one.

Number two, but also like I think there's a lot less tolerance for the kind of line of argument Meghan was talking about, about politicizing this on the right because we remember very clearly, DeSantis brought this up, when Kamala was trying to make hay out of phone calls during the campaign, how DeSantis wouldn't answer. And I just looked it up over the break too. You know, we - we often hear this and - are on this sort of thing when we get mass shootings, God forbid, with Republicans how we kind of have a very similar thing, let's not politicize this, let's not do that. And Gavin Newsom, on the day of one of the Tennessee shootings in March of '23, and then two months later, a North Hollywood beach shooting in Florida, I just looked it up on X, was posting blaming DeSantis for certain policies on the AP's original post. And then also Marsha Blackburn in the Tennessee one. So, the cries ring very hollow to me when Newsom talks about this.

ALEX THOMPSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: I mean, this is inherently political. You - you - it's also why Newsom, you noticed, isn't spending that much time with Karen Bass right now. And he has been subtly pointing the finger at local officials. Karen Bass has also been attacked by the fire department chief. And one way or another, I think one of the lasting images of this fire is the fact that there was not water coming out of the fire hydrants.

HUNT: Yes.

JERUSALEM DEMSAS, STAFF WRITER, "THE ATLANTIC": But I think it's important, like, there's - distinguishing between the - there's legitimate criticism to make about governance in California, whether it's about the inability to bury the power lines or it's about water policy or whatever it is. And then there's also criticism that's happening where it's just like, oh, the DEI policies at the fire department and they're two many - I mean we see this on X, like there are too many lesbians who are working in the fire department. That sort of thing gets really mixed in there and it becomes unclear from a viewership standpoint which one is actually going to get attacked. And it seems like over and over you don't actually see the real governance problems get changed in the aftermath, you just see the sort of facially culture war style politics really take - take hold.

HUNT: Meghan, we do know Newsom, obviously, has very high profile ambitions, right? He wants to be president of the United States. No secret of that. Is the way he's handling this going to make it more likely he becomes president or less?

HAYS: Well, I think this is part of the reason you see Donald Trump and J.D. Vance criticizing him, right? They're trying to poke holes in his ability to run in '28. I think J.D. Vance is going to want to run. So, I think there is a lot of future politicalization going on here and making it hard for him.

HUNT: What do you think, Alex?

THOMPSON: I completely agree with that. And J.D. Vance is almost certainly going to run in 2028. So, in some ways, this is maybe the first firing shot of that potential matchup.

HUNT: Oh, boy. OK.

All right, let's turn back now to what's happening here in Washington, D.C., where in just seven days Donald Trump will be heading back into 600 Pennsylvania Avenue. This week will begin to shape who will enact his agenda when he starts his second term. His cabinet picks are beginning their Senate confirmation hearings. Our CNN team writes this, quote, "what distinguishes this round of

confirmations is the heightened expectations that Trump's picks will present, not just their own expertise, but a clear and unwavering loyalty to the president-elect's agenda, a public display of fealty that was not always assured during his first term. Indeed, those first term hearings sounded at times like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you support restricting travel or immigration to the United States by Muslims?

REX TILLERSON, FORMER TRUMP SECRETARY OF STATE: No, I do not support a blanket type rejection of any particular group of people.

JAMES MATTIS, FORMER TRUMP DEFENSE SECRETARY: NATO, I - from my perspective, having served once as a NATO supreme allied commander, is the most successful military alliance probably in modern world history, maybe ever.

SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT): Is the president-elect right? Is climate change a hoax?

RYAN ZINKE, FORMER TRUMP INTERIOR SECRETARY: Well, I don't believe it's a hoax. I believe - I believe we should -

SANDERS: You do not believe it's a hoax?

ZINKE: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: All right, joining us now, former adviser to George W. Bush and John McCain, Mark McKinnon. Also the creator of Paramount's "The Circus."

Mark, good morning. Always wonderful to see you.

Those moments there, striking to watch. It doesn't seem to me we're going to get many like it in the coming week.

MARK MCKINNON, FORMER ADVISER TO GEORGE W. BUSH AND JOHN MCCAIN, AND CREATOR, "THE CIRCUS": They are. It's a completely different playbook here. They're - he's not going in with broken toys this time or - he's going in with a plan and the people that he wants this time. And he - and the people he wants are saying the things that he wants them to say.

The rubber is meeting the road this week, Kasie. And - but I do think that there are - there's - there's definitely potential for surprises this week. There's - these people haven't been grilled publicly yet. A lot of them are performers and have television experience. So, that helps. And that's why Donald Trump picked them.

But, for example, with Pete Hegseth, it's not even clear he has a majority of Republicans on the Armed Services Committee. And some of the senators, like Curtis in Utah and Thom Tillis are unhappy with the MAGA advertising that's been going on in their districts because they do feel that they still have some independence.

[06:55:04]

So, the - MAGA may have, in some cases, overplayed their hand on this. And so, you've still got Murkowski and Collins and McConnell as - as definite or probably nos, and then you've got a handful of other senators, some say up to 12 senators that are still potential - Republican senators that are potential nos.

And on Robert F. Kennedy, as you all talked about before, listen, what do Republicans - what does the Republican base care most about? It's not vaccines, its abortion. And Kennedy's politics on abortion are not going to conform with the Republican base. So, stand by for some surprises (ph). I think ultimately they probably do get through, but there will be some fireworks this week, Kasie.

HUNT: Yes, let's dig in on RFK Jr. for a second here because he, in many ways, has, I mean, he may have the only sharp ideological difference with the Trump base of any of these nominees, right? In the case of Hegseth we're talking about, you know, what's in his background check and his kind of personal issues. But we're not talking as much about what he believes and how that may be different from what Republicans believe.

This abortion question, potentially dangerous territory for Robert F. Kennedy Jr. And, you know, he also came out of a meeting with Senator Bill Cassidy, who is, of course, a physician, and Cassidy's tone on that was pretty interesting to me. I'm not so sure I would go - I'm not sure - I'm not sure I would go so far as to call it hostile, but it wasn't warm and fuzzy either.

MCKINNON: Yes, I don't - you know, I think that there's been sort of a delusion among the Republican base. They're just excited about having a Kennedy on the program and in the Trump orbit. And I don't think they've really stopped to consider, you know, what his background really is and what his ideological core really is. And as I said, you know, there's nothing that the MAGA base cares more about on any issue than abortion. And Kennedy, you know, has a long history of contrary opinions and I think at his heart believes differently than the MAGA base does on this issue. That's the most important thing to them. So, I expect that that could -- that's the thing that could really create a problem this week.

HUNT: Mark, let's talk for a second about the audience of one for these hearings, which is, of course, Donald Trump, the president- elect, right? All of these people are going to be sitting in these chairs and playing to him. What - what would be the biggest mistake one of these nominees could make in terms of that particular audience?

MCKINNON: Well, I think you just played the clip. I - you know, if I were rehearsing with these folks, I'd be playing exactly the clips that you just played and say, do not do this. Just don't disagree with him. I mean, don't - don't - don't - don't offer up anything that's contrary to at least Donald Trump's plans. You may have some differences in the past. Just make sure you don't have any differences in the future.

HUNT: Fair enough.

All right, Mark McKinnon for us this morning. Sir, I'm always grateful to have you. Thank you so much for being here.

MCKINNON: Kick it, Kasie. Thanks.

HUNT: All right, let's continue this conversation.

Matt Gorman, I'm curious what you think would be - because the other thing is, Trump has picked a lot of people that he sees on TV, right? He wants people who can go out there and sell his agenda in a public way. And so, to a certain extent, making a communications-based mistake I think could trip up any one of these nominees.

GORMAN: True. But I guess to kind of - to kind of point and maybe push back a little bit, yes, those three people disagreed, Mattis, Tillerson and Ryan Zinke, but they - every single one of them got through. And actually Zinke left, and he got elected back into the House. He's - so he's, you know, elected with all of that.

And look, I would - I would kind of also kind of say on a couple of different things. You're absolutely right, every one of these needs to perform well. I think the most watchable hearings will be certainly Kennedy and Hegseth. And, you know, the other ones will, I think, will be relatively boring.

I also would just say, abortion, you're right, is a factor for Republicans. But if that were the case, if it was only a test about abortion, Donald Trump probably would not have been the nominee.

HAYS: Yes.

GORMAN: He was not the most outspoken about it. You would have DeSantis this time. You had Bob Vander Plaats. Tim Scott was very pro- life. And on and on. It's broader than that. It's more culture war. I think that is what the base is looking for. Each of them bring it in their own way.

THOMPSON: Yes, I mean he was being - if this was a Supreme Court confirmation hearing, then he probably would lose a lot of Republican votes. But this is HHS secretary, so it might be a bit different.

HUNT: Yes.

DEMSAS: I mean, interestingly, HHS does have a lot of control over abortion policy. For instance, whether or not Mifepristone or other abortion drugs are going to be available at the same level. But most people don't think about the politics in that way. I think they think about it in a culture war angle, in which case I think RFK has really been outside the pro-life, pro-choice kind of divide.

HUNT: Yes, maybe I spent too much time covering health care policy on The Hill, which I did earlier in my career. I do actually understand just how much HHS has control over abortion policies in this country. DEMSAS: Yes.

HUNT: It's actually activists are very, very, very focused on it.

HAYS: Yes, I think so. I just - I don't think that we're going to have as much fireworks as we think we're going to have here.

GORMAN: I agree.

HAYS: I think that also - and one more person that I'd say to watch is Tulsi Gabbard here.

[07:00:01]

GORMAN: Yes.

HAYS: But I think that Donald Trump, he doesn't want loyalty, he wants obedience. And I think if they show that in these hearings, they'll be fine.

GORMAN: Yes.

HUNT: All right, guys, thanks very much for joining us on this Monday. I appreciate it.

Thanks to all of you at home for joining us as well. I'm Kasie Hunt. Don't go anywhere. "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.