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Mark Greenblatt is Interviewed about Being Fired by Trump; 80 Years Since Auschwitz Liberation; Mark McKinnon is Interviewed about Confirmation Hearings; Vance Defends January 6th Pardons. Aired 6:30- 7a ET

Aired January 27, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:31:25]

KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: All right, welcome back.

President Donald Trump, over the weekend, defending his decision to fire a number of inspectors general from over a dozen federal agencies. It happened in a Friday night purge. And it raises concern about future - the future of oversight in his administration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's a very common thing to do.

Some people thought that some were unfair or some were not doing the job. And it's a very standard thing to do.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you plan to bring your own people in those positions, Mr. President?

TRUMP: Well, they're not my people. I don't know anybody that would do that but we'll put people in there that would be very good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: The fired inspectors general were meant to serve as independent government watchdogs. A check against fraud, waste or abuse of power.

Though Trump, who fired a handful of inspectors general during his first term says it is, quote, "common practice." The scale of Trump's purge has not been seen since Ronald Reagan dismissed 15 IGs on his first day in office in 1981.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Also getting the axe were the 15 inspector generals. They were the targets of candidate Reagan, who accused them of not doing enough to eliminate government waste. They'll be replaced, in the words of White House Press Spokesman James Brady, with people who are meaner than a junkyard dog when it comes to ferreting out waste, fraud and corruption.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: Democrats warning that these firings are not going to cut government waste, as promised.

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SEN. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): The American people, if we don't have good and independent inspector generals, are going to see the swamp refill, they're going to see rampant waste, fraud, they're going to see corruption. It may be the president's goal here when he's got a meme coin that's making him billions, is to remove anyone that's going to call the public attention to his malfeasance.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: And joining us now is one of the inspectors general dismissed by Trump on Friday, Mark Greenblatt. He was the inspector general of the Department of Interior.

Sir, thanks very much for being here. Appreciate your time.

MARK GREENBLATT, U.S. DEPARTMENT OF THE INTERIOR INSPECTOR GENERAL, FIRED BY PRESIDENT TRUMP: Well, thank you for having me on. Yes.

HUNT: Can you explain how you learned about this? What happened on Friday?

GREENBLATT: So, Friday night I got an email on my work phone and I checked it. And on there was a - it said White House notification. And I knew that can't be good.

In the prior Trump administration they had removed - President Trump had removed two inspectors general, both of which were on Friday nights. And so those were Friday night, you know, Friday night massacres at that time. And so, to get an email from the White House saying White House notification on a Friday night at 7:30, I knew that couldn't be good.

And so, I opened it up and there was a two sentence email from the Director of Presidential Personnel that said, in light of changing priorities, you are, you know, terminated from your position at the, you know, Department of the Interior effective immediately, and thank you for your service.

HUNT: So, have you had a chance to clean out your office?

GREENBLATT: No, actually. My email has been cut off and I don't know what's going to happen with my - with my things. I was there for five and a half years. And so, we'll see.

HUNT: You were appointed by Donald Trump, or named to this position by Donald Trump back in 2019. Do you have any sense of why he would put you on this list? GREENBLATT: No, I don't know. And all that was stated was the changing

priorities in that - in that email, which I understand the other IGs who were removed, the 17 or 18 of us were still sifting through the rubble, frankly, to find out how many IGs were removed. But as far as I know, all of us got essentially the same email that said, changing priorities.

[06:35:04]

HUNT: Well, because, I mean, one of the things that - that happened on - on your watch, that, of course, Donald Trump himself has - has focused on was this report that you did on what happened in Lafayette Square back during the Black Lives Matter protests.

GREENBLATT: Right.

HUNT: And the square was cleared. And there's those pictures of Donald Trump, of course, walking across the square with Mark Milley. And he was clearly pleased with you because he wrote, after this report came out and you said, while the square was not - was not cleared, you say, "the evidence we obtained did not support a finding that the U.S. Park Police cleared the park to allow the president to survey the damage and walk to St. John's Church. The evidence showed that the U.S. Park Police did not know about the president's potential movement until mid to late afternoon on June 1st, hours after it had begun developing its operational plan, and the fencing contractor had arrived in the park."

And then Trump issued this statement thanking the inspector general, you, for "completely and totally exonerating me in the clearing of Lafayette Park." It just seems as though the work that you're doing and, you know, it's trust - you know, trustworthy, et cetera, has put him in a positive light, not a negative one.

GREENBLATT: Well, we do fair, objective, independent oversight. And I've been doing that for five and a half years. And I'm very proud of the work that my team has done during my tenure as inspector general. And so, I would agree with you. I don't know what the basis of the removal was, but we've been doing good, high impact work trying to help the American taxpayer. We are the taxpayers' representatives inside the Department of the Interior, and I think we've been doing that job really well.

HUNT: So, let's talk about the big picture impact of not just your job, but all of these. You say you're still sifting through the rubble. I mean what does that mean for taxpayers if there are not people like you in these roles?

GREENBLATT: Well, I would say it's troubling. These should be sending - these removals should be setting off alarm bells for a number of different reasons. But the primary one, in my view, is the independence of these positions. The whole construct of inspectors general, it's based on us being independent, that we're not beholden to a political party of - of any stripe, that we are there as the taxpayers' representatives to call balls and strikes without any dog in the fight. And so that's the question is, what will - what will President Trump

do with these positions? Is he going to nominate watchdogs or is he going to nominate lapdogs? That's the key question. If he's going to nominate independent minded folks who are independent in body and spirit, then - then that's hopefully the right course of action. If he goes down a path of - of nominating and appointing political lackeys, then I think the American taxpayers, Congress, stakeholders throughout the country should be up in arms. This is not a good - not a good development for the American taxpayer.

HUNT: What should we be looking for? I know you came up through basically the inspectors general community. You are a professional investigator. What would be a red flag in someone's background that would indicate that, in your words, they would be a lapdog and not a watchdog?

GREENBLATT: Well, certainly, I mean, and we've seen this in administrations of both kinds, both - both sides of the aisle over the years. The - the big issue is, do they have a political experience that would - that would call their credibility into question? Do they have - you know, are they working for the administration? Do they have a dog in the fight? That's the key question. And it manifests itself in a number of different ways.

But the key thing is, can they be objective? It doesn't mean they necessarily have to come from the inspector general community, but are they - do they have a background that suggests they can do the job, they can be in a leadership position, they can handle, they can speak truth to power. Those are some of the key indicia of - of successful inspectors general.

HUNT: All right, Mark Greenblatt, I'm very grateful to have you on the show. I'm sure it's been a tough weekend for you.

GREENBLATT: Yes.

HUNT: So, thank you for spending some time with us. Appreciate it.

GREENBLATT: Thank you very much.

HUNT: All right, still ahead here on CNN THIS MORNING, a solemn day. The world marks 80 years since the liberation of a notorious Nazi concentration camp. European leaders and Holocaust survivors gathering in Auschwitz today to hear their stories so that the world will never forget.

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[06:43:40]

HUNT: All right, welcome back.

Today, the world is marking 80 years since the liberation of the notorious Nazi extermination camp of Auschwitz. A commemoration now underway. A wreath laying ceremony at the site of the camp located in Poland. Leaders from across Europe are expected at the commemoration ceremonies. Living survivors held in Auschwitz have also been invited back to share their firsthand stories of what happened there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONA LAKS, HOLOCAUST SURVIVOR: What I felt when I came back, I came back, I just said to myself, I really need to tell. People need to know. They won't believe because I myself cannot believe that that happened.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: And CNN's Melissa Bell joins us live now from Auschwitz- Birkenau, the Nazi concentration camp.

Melissa, that was a little bit of your interview with the Holocaust survivor, Jona Laks. What else can you tell us about her story and the other survivors that are gathering there today?

MELISSA BELL, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Now, Jona Laks, who you just saw there, was one of two twins. They arrived here as young girls. They were immediately, first of all, sent off to the extermination camps, saved by the fact that they were twins, handed to the notorious Nazi doctor Josef Mengele. And remarkably the sisters survived.

What she told us, Kasie, was of the experiments that were carried out on them, the pain that they felt, the solitude and the chaos in which they found themselves after this camp was liberated.

[06:45:10]

What you can see behind me are those rows of beer (ph) canals, a barracks, where the inmates were kept. It was 80 years ago today that essentially the advancing Soviet troops stumbled upon this, what was the largest but also the deadliest of the Nazi concentration camps. And specifically it was after 1942, and that final solution was implemented by the Nazis, that people were brought here, in their great majority Jews, but also homosexuals, gypsy romas we know as well, and political prisoners. More than a million people were killed at this death camp.

But, Kasie, perhaps one of the most chilling figures, that 900,000 of them died on the very day that they arrived. It was at this camp that the Nazis had really refined that strategy of scaling up to industrial levels their gas chambers.

And so this commemoration likely to be one of the last big ones, say organizers, where any of the survivors are going to be able to speak in any numbers. Fifty of them are expected here today. They'll be speaking in front of those world leaders.

But significantly, none of those world leaders will be speaking. It will just be the voices of those survivors speaking to the world about what it is that they remember, again, with those fears that the world is once again forgetting in the specter of that rising anti-Semitism that we're seeing here in Europe. That will very much be at the heart of the commemorations here today, that it is important to remember to those - those who are still able to bear witness some of the horror of what happened here 80 years ago.

Kasie.

HUNT: Never forget.

Melissa Bell, thanks very much for that.

All right, let's turn back now to Washington where the Senate is gearing up for another week of confirmation hearings.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE, COMEDIAN, "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE": We're filling my cabinet with some of the best people. They're all very good, except for most of them. Oh, man, what is "SNL" going to do? Who's going to play Hegseth? I mean, look at these guys back here. None of them got the build. Nobody has the jaw. Got plenty of Zuckerberg options, though. That's going to be a fight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: After Trump's pick for secretary of defense, Pete Hegseth, was confirmed in a tie breaking vote on Friday, senators will now be questioning other controversial Trump nominees, including Tulsi Gabbard as Director of National Intelligence, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. For Health and Human Services secretary, and Kash Patel as FBI director. Some of those picks still facing a potentially rocky road to confirmation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DANA BASH, CNN ANCHOR: Tulsi Gabbard. You met with her.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Yes.

BASH: She's going to have a hearing to be the Director of National Intelligence this coming week. Are you going to support her?

GRAHAM: We'll see how she does. I've known her on the same reserve unit. Richard Burr, who is a good friend of mine, is going to introduce her, so that goes a long way. But I want to hear -

BASH: We'll see is not a ringing endorsement.

GRAHAM: Huh?

BASH: We'll see is not a ringing endorsement.

GRAHAM: But, yes, well, we'll see is an honest answer.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: We'll see.

Joining us now, former adviser to George W. Bush and John McCain, Mark McKinnon. Also the creator of Paramount's "The Circus." Mark, good morning. Always wonderful to see you.

MARK MCKINNON, CREATOR, "THE CIRCUS": Good morning, Kasie. How are you?

HUNT: Do you - very well. The Eagles won yesterday. They are going to the Super Bowl. You may have heard. I think we - this may be the fifth time I've mentioned it in under an hour and - in under two hours.

MCKINNON: (INAUDIBLE).

HUNT: But let's talk about these confirmation chances. I know this is a conversation you and I have kind of had going the last couple of months.

Tulsi Gabbard, in particular, seems to potentially be in trouble. Do you think she is, and do you think anybody else is going to face potential problems actually getting these votes?

MCKINNON: I don't think so really. I think the fact that Pete Hegseth made it through tells you all you need to know. I mean, he was clearly the most embattled potential nominee. Now, clearly, Tulsi Gabbard and Kash Patel have national intelligence issues that are serious and are a different sort of perspective. But - but I think in the end of the game there's - there's just been signals throughout that I think that while they're taking it seriously, that they're ready to - to go ahead and pass them through. And I think both will get through this week.

HUNT: Yes, I mean, NBC is reporting that the White House has warned of consequences for senators who vote against him. Do you - what do you think that might look like?

MCKINNON: It looks like a primary opponent. That's what it looks like. They're dropping the hammer on everybody. And I - and again, I think, listen, if you can - if you can - if you can vote for Pete Hegseth, you can vote for anybody. So, I think that, again, that - and Matt Gaetz became the sort of sacrificial lamb. And after that, everybody's flying through. That's my - that's my outlook (INAUDIBLE).

HUNT: Fair enough.

Mark, one of the things, obviously, that we've been talking about throughout the morning is the immigration crackdown, of course, promised by Donald Trump during the campaign.

[06:50:07]

But now, of course, we're getting, not just the actions, but also the show that Donald Trump puts on. We're reporting here at CNN that law enforcement agencies have been directed to wear uniforms that very clearly mark who they are.

Now, of course, safety protocol dictates law enforcement officers need to identify themselves. But they - our reporting is that this is specifically to generate more media attention. We have also seen, of course, the very public confrontation between

Donald Trump and the president of Colombia, one that the president seems to have come out on top on. Certainly that's how the White House feels.

But, of course, you're also seeing incidents where there's - we're reporting this just this morning, members of the Navajo Nation were detained, some of them for long periods of time, demanded to see their citizenship credentials. There was a man at a church in an Atlanta suburb. ICE agents didn't go inside the church, but he was attending a sermon and they went looking for him by name.

And then, of course, we've got these ICE raids that are - were unfolding in Chicago on Sunday.

I want to play a little bit of one woman who had a family member detained. Let's watch that and I want to talk to you about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

YELITZA MARQUINA, FATHER ARRESTED BY ICE: They will open the door because they thought maybe one of us were in trouble or something, or something happened to us. He never did anything that wouldn't have been nice.

I'm already heartbroken myself, and I can't really imagine little kids whose families are breaking apart because of this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: She, of course, Mark, speaking English, talking about her father.

Where is the line here between - and - and what is it that Americans really want from the president here? They want - the do want some action, but is it what you just saw there?

MCKINNON: Well, there's an old Louisiana expression, Kasie, hit dogs bark. And what Donald Trump and MAGA Republicans want is, they want all the barking that they can get. So, this is exactly what they want. This is the priority issue that Trump started running on in 2016, that he ran on this time around, and they're not shy about it. And so, the more media they can get, the more whining, the more complaining, the more even emotional sort of stories like the one that you just showed, they're - they're fine with it. This is exactly what they want. This is what they ran on. I don't think there is a line, frankly.

HUNT: Really interesting.

Mark, big picture. The first week of the Trump administration. How would you evaluate it? And what does it tell you about what we're in for the next four years?

MCKINNON: It's really interesting, Kasie. I think presidential historians, it will be so interesting for them to compare and contrast 2016 and 2024, because it's the difference between a train wreck and a bullet train. And, of course, they learned from their mistakes. That's one thing. They're coming in with - not with broken toys, but sort of the a-team. They've got the people that they want on board. They know what they want to do. They have a plan. They're executing it well.

And the thing that strikes me is that - that they obviously know that they have a limited time frame of political capital to get things done. But the other thing that - that strikes me as I'm thinking about the last week is that there's so much going on, and there's so much controversy that you can't keep up with it. The media can't. Democrats can't. I mean, January 6th seemed - the pardoning was only a week ago but it seems like a month ago now, right, because of what - you're trying to keep up with the January 6th pardons, the 14th Amendment birthright, the firing of the IGs, the stripping of security clearance, the meme coins. It's like there's so much that you can't keep up with the controversy.

And so, it's just such a blizzard of controversial things that nobody can keep up with it or keep a focus on any particular controversy, and therefore there are really none.

HUNT: It is remarkable when you - when you lay it out that way for sure.

Mark McKinnon, thanks very much. Always appreciate you. See you next week, I hope.

MCKINNON: Yes. Kick it.

HUNT: All right.

All right, let's turn now to this. The sweeping nature of President Trump's January 6th clemency seemed to come as a surprise to even his running mate.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES (January 12, 2025): If you committed violence on that day, obviously you shouldn't be pardoned. And there's a little bit of a gray area there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: That was then Vice President-elect J.D. Vance saying the pardons for January 6th shouldn't include those who were violent on that day. Violence, which included disturbing moments like this one for police officers on the front line against a mob of rioters.

(VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: That scream of help was from D.C. Metropolitan Police Officer Daniel Hodges as he was crushed in a door while defending the Capitol that day.

Now, the men he testified against in court are free, along with hundreds of others accused or convicted of attacking law enforcement officers. [06:55:01]

In total, more than 140 officers were injured by rioters, disrupting the certification of the 2020 election. Five officers later died.

But Vice President Vance is now defending the broad pardons that were handed down by President Trump.

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J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The pardon power is not just for people who are angels or people who are perfect. And, of course, we love our law enforcement and want people to be peaceful with everybody, but especially with our good cops. That's a separate issue from what Merrick Garland's Department of Justice did. We rectified a wrong, and I stand by it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: I stand by it, he says. Our panel has returned.

Matt Gorman, I mean, he's standing by, saying it's OK for people to attack police officers.

MATT GORMAN, FORMER TIM SCOTT PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER AND REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Yes, I mean, look, he was put in a tough spot, especially when you contrast with the Fox - what he said on "Fox News Sunday" just a couple weeks ago.

And look, I will say this stepping back, right, how he handles questions like this I - very much so, there's - there is a real reason why Vance goes on these platforms. They went on "Face the Nation" knowing it would not be an easy interview. It would be more antagonistic than anything else. And how he is able to navigate these sorts of questions, I think, is going to portend how he ends up, you know, his fortunes in '28 and beyond.

And so, this strategy of going onto mainstream media, answering these questions. He had a couple of viral moments earlier in the interview as well. It's a coordinated strategy in how he's able to kind of go through some of these tougher questions is going to tell a lot of how he goes in '28.

ALEX THOMPSON, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: There are political risks, though, with backing up these pardons for '28. Now, obviously, he's trying to do - stand in solidarity with the president. But if any of these people that were pardoned, if they are involved in political vigilantism, if they're involved in any sort of political violence, he's going to own those pardons and that violence.

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: You know, it's a synergy here between the IG issue you were talking about earlier and this issue. And it's that the president is going to do exactly what he wants. He feels emboldened. That potentially is a good strategy right now for Republicans. How that wears over the next two years is going to play into the midterms. And ultimately you're talking about Vance's future ambitions into the - the next presidential election in '28.

GORMAN: And - well, that's right.

MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER BIDEN WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF MESSAGE PLANNING AND DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: This is going to be an issue that I think is going to plague in the midterms and in the presidential in '28, just like you were saying. And it's going to be really interesting to see how the rest of the country reacts to this because they do not have - the Republicans do not have the same base or loyalty that Donald Trump has with the MAGA base. I don't think J.D. Vance has that, and I don't think people in the House have that. And I think Republicans really are going to have to own this issue because they - and I understand that they had nothing to do with these pardons, but they get on TV and back it up and they are going to have to own it.

GORMAN: I think - I think a couple things. Let me - let me separate it. I - again, I would be shocked in any way, shape or form January 6th, one way or another, has anything to do with the midterms or '28. Absent - absent Alex's point.

Number two, though, look, you know, Vance - with Trump not being able to run again, obviously, right, Vance is a vessel that either people can vote in terms of reinforcing Trump in a good way, or if there is a little bit of backlash against Trump, Vance is the person they can take it out on. And that's - that's a little bit of a - how Vance's future hangs in the balance in these next four years, good or bad.

HUNT: That's basically what we're watching, yes.

THOMPSON: Yes, Trump's in - well, I was going to say, Trump is in YOLO mode, but then the rest of the party is - it like also has a future. And there's going to be tension there the entire time.

HUNT: That's a really way - very, very Trump way to put it.

All right, I will leave you with this. The Super Bowl matchup now set. Tell me if you've seen this before.

First up, on Sunday, my Philadelphia Eagles setting the tone early. Saquon Barkley taking his first carry for a 60 yard touchdown. Hey, look, my producers have me actually reading a sports script. That's amazing.

He had a total of three rushing scores as the Eagles crushed - and I mean crushed the Commanders. The Empire State Building lighting up in green. They actually did this in New York for Philly. The building social media account adding in the caption, I'm sorry, I have to do this. Their return to the Super Bowl, yep, it's going to be a rematch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Got the prine (ph). Prine makes the move around Bernard. And that will clinch it.

(END VIDEO CLIP) HUNT: For the first time in - fifth time in six years, the Kansas City Chiefs heading to the Super Bowl. They narrowly beat the Buffalo Bills at home. Final score, 32-29. And, of course, Taylor Swift was there in attendance to support Travis Kelce as he and his teammates are trying for that elusive three peat. A third straight Super Bowl title.

She also got a front row seat to this performance.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRAVIS KELCE, KANSAS CITY CHIEFS: Hey, before you guys get out of here, just do a little dance. Make a little love. Yeah, get down tonight.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HUNT: She is cracking up over it.

All right, so, guys, are we ready for the Chiefs in the Super Bowl again. I certainly am very excited about my Eagles.

GORMAN: I am so Chiefed out. This is - this is like can't they both lose? This is going to - this is -

HUNT: Hey. Hey.

GORMAN: Yes, yes, no, this is awful.

HUNT: But is America Chiefed out? You guys -

THOMPSON: I'm actually looking forward to rooting against the Chiefs. So -

HUNT: Hey, you know, we got some Eagles fans on this side of the table.

HAYS: We're Eagles fans in our household.

[07:00:01]

My sister-in-law is actually from south Philly. So, we are Eagles fans all the way.

HUNT: OK. Fly Eagles fly.

HAYS: Yes.

HUNT: Matt?

GORMAN: I'll go with you on this one.

HUNT: Really?

GORMAN: Reluctantly.

HUNT: Reluctantly. OK. GORMAN: Yes, reluctantly.

HUNT: Look at that. Look. See, we can come together. We figured it out.

Thank you, guys, for joining us. Thanks to all of you at home for joining us as well.

I'm Kasie Hunt. Don't go anywhere. "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.