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Musk's "DOGE" Works To Slash Government Spending; DOJ Officials Demand FBI Agents Answer Survey On January 6; Rep. Chris Deluzio (D- PA) On Trump's Tariff War. Aired 5:30-6a ET
Aired February 03, 2025 - 05:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[05:30:30]
KASIE HUNT, CNN ANCHOR: All right, it is 5:30 a.m. here on the East Coast. This is a live look at Toronto, Canada. It's, of course, the capital of Ontario and our neighbor to the north. I was just there a little while ago. Canada is one of the three countries that have been targeted by President Trump's unfolding trade war this morning.
Good morning, everyone. I'm Kasie Hunt. It's wonderful to have you with us.
Let's bring it back here at home because Elon Musk and his so-called Department of Government Efficiency (DOGE) rapidly working to transform the federal government.
Over the weekend Musk's DOGE associates gained full access to a Treasury Department payment system that distributes most of the federal government's payments. It adds up to trillions of dollars in transactions and it's everything from your Social Security benefits to your tax refund, to payments to federal workers and government contractors.
Musk also signaling overnight that the Trump administration plans to shut down the federal agency that leads America's international humanitarian aid programs.
Two top security officials at the U.S. Agency for International Development are now on leave after they tried to block officials from DOGE from gaining access to their systems. The DOGE officials went to the USAID headquarters in Washington, D.C. looking to access security systems and personnel files, three sources tell CNN. According to two of those sources, the DOGE officials also wanted access to classified information, and they did eventually access the headquarters.
The agency delivers billions of dollars in international humanitarian aid annually and has been around for more than 60 years. It was created by former President John F. Kennedy.
Over the weekend President Donald Trump blasted the organization.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's been run by a bunch of radical lunatics and we're getting them out. USAID is run by radical lunatics, and we're getting them out, and then we'll make a decision.
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HUNT: Last night Elon Musk going a step further sharing on X the president agreed the organization should be shut down.
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ELON MUSK, DEPARTMENT OF GOVERNMENT EFFICIENCY: What we have here is not an apple with a worm in it, but we have actually just a ball of worms. If you've got an apple that's got a worm in it maybe you can take the worm out. But if you've got actually just a ball of worms it's hopeless. And USAID is a ball of worms. There is no apple. And when there is no apple, that's -- there's -- you've just to go basically rid of the whole thing.
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HUNT: "Basically get rid of the whole thing."
Joining us now is Axios publisher Nicholas Johnston. Nic, good morning.
NICHOLAS JOHNSTON, PUBLISHER, AXIOS: Good morning. How are you?
HUNT: Good to see you.
There's been a lot going on --
JOHNSTON: There has.
HUNT: -- over the weekend, but let's start with what we heard from Musk on this USAID --
JOHNSTON: Yeah.
HUNT: -- question. And is it legal? Can they just shut it down?
JOHNSTON: Well, there's one way to find out. I mean, I think a lot of what we're up against again in the second Trump administration is the same as the first -- is testing these kinds of norms, right? Like, is it OK or is it legal? Is it permissible by Congress to purge dozens of inspectors general? We've already had Congress push back on that.
Can you begin to unilaterally pull these kinds of spending things. Can you begin to unilaterally pull this kind of money? Well, who is going to stop them? We've seen on some of these things that they go to the federal courts and there's immediate injunctions.
But USAID is a congressionally chartered organization. It's got billions of dollars appropriated by Congress. Will Congress have an interest in this? I know that there was a Democrat or a Democrat Senate or a Democrats
House. There would be subpoenas flying. There would be people dragged before Congress. But we're still just waiting to see how pliant the Republican Congress will be on any of those kinds of things. I think that's really the only real stopgap on some of these.
HUNT: Do you know anything about what Musk's personal interest is in USAID because some of these things he's doing, it's clear? Like, the FAA, right, interacts with SpaceX.
JOHNSTON: Yeah.
HUNT: What about this one?
JOHNSTON: I'm learning more than I even want to know. I spent about an hour early this morning scrolling through the --
HUNT: Great. This is why we invited you.
JOHNSTON: -- (INAUDIBLE) on X. I mean, it's a -- it's a web of conspiracy theories.
Like, look, a lot of them, people will say you know about USAID. Like, when there's a famine and the bags of wheat shop up, that's the label that's on it. They've done incredible amounts of work on public health around the world.
But if you dig into this X conspiracy theory you'll arrive at this pretty standard place where everything on X goes, whether it's a conspiracy funded by George Soros to somehow perpetuate lawfare on behalf of the deep state. There's a lot of these things being pulled out, so it's like I don't -- we don't know, like, sort of what's really driving at this. It's just being driven by some kind of conspiracy theory that's being shared a lot on the internet.
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HUNT: I mean, in many ways, this is a perpetuation of the complete rejection of Ronald Reagan Republican style of politics. Because I mean this is -- yes, it started under JFK but --
JOHNSTON: Right.
HUNT: -- it is a promulgation of soft power. American soft power into places -- I mean, the Chinese, for example, have cottoned onto this, right? They are spending tons and tons of money --
JOHNSTON: Yeah.
HUNT: -- in countries around the world to try to get a foothold. This was a way that Americans bought goodwill and influence.
JOHNSTON: This is a definite where people pushing back on this are really leveling their criticism that this is a great way to, like, get people around the world to like America instead of China. Those billions of dollars in medical aid, in prenatal care, in famine assistance with giant American flags on it -- well, thanks, America. That builds a lot of goodwill. And a lot of folks are saying that if that pulls away, well China moves in to fill that.
I think another big piece to think about here is that DOGE was created for government efficiency -- for budget cutting. This is one percent of the federal budget. It's a very interesting place to begin the bull in a china shop actions to try and solve for some of these problems. A very tiny piece of the federal budget.
HUNT: Yeah.
Briefly, what's the implication of them taking the treasury system? I think it's worth noting that treasury -- this is not treasury making policy of making decisions about who gets paid.
JOHNSTON: Right.
HUNT: These other agencies throughout the government -- Social Security Administration, the IRS, et cetera -- they tell them what to pay out --
JOHNSTON: Yeah.
HUNT: -- and treasury just does it.
But this is like -- I mean, your Social Security number and certainly mine is in there somewhere. This is like all kinds of sensitive information --
JOHNSTON: I think that's the real interest.
HUNT: -- right?
JOHNSTON: I mean, from what our reporting has shown so far is that they have a read-only ability. They are able to see where the money is going, and that's probably in the pursuit of trying to figure out where it's going to try to make those kinds of cuts. You begin to turn the knobs on that exactly to your point. Trillions of dollars a year.
These are not things that are going to USAID foreign products. These are Social Security. These are tax refunds. These are bond payments. These are bill payments by the United States federal government. That's where these things can really get exciting.
Like, I was looking through -- I was thinking back through Trump's and Elon Musk's Twitter over the weekend. It's something he likes to use when things go wrong at SpaceX or at Twitter, or at Tesla. Success is uncertain but you will -- entertainment is guaranteed. I don't think people are going to be entertained if something goes wrong in treasury payment. That's all I'm saying.
HUNT: It's one thing when are you doing that when you are running a social media platform. Obviously, the stakes are much higher when you are launching rockets into the air.
JOHNSTON: Yeah. HUNT: But when you are dealing with people's livelihoods that is a completely different level as well.
JOHNSTON: I think that's actually where a friction point could show up, yeah.
HUNT: Thank you for that understatement, Nicholas Johnston. I appreciate it.
All right. Also this morning thousands of FBI agents are faced with a daunting demand. CNN has learned DOJ has given them a survey asking them to answer 12 questions about their involvement in January 6 investigations. This follows last week's firing of more than a dozen DOJ officials who investigated President Trump.
Former FBI director Andrew McCabe calls this latest development disgraceful.
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ANDREW MCCABE, FORMER FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR: Nowhere in my entire 21- year history in the FBI did I ever see anything like this where employees are literally being rounded up for political reasons for cases they did their lawful and expected work on. It's absolutely ridiculous.
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HUNT: The threat of President Trump's expanded purge of the FBI comes as lawyers are telling FBI agents do not resign.
Joining me now CNN national security communication analyst and Michigan State professor Shawn Turner. Shawn, good morning to you.
What is the message --
SHAWN TURNER, CNN NATIONAL SECURITY COMMUNICATION ANALYST, PROFESSOR OF STRATEGIC COMMUNICATION, MICHIGAN STATE UNIVERSITY (via Webex by Cisco): Good morning.
HUNT: -- that's being sent right now to these thousands of FBI agents who had some connection to these investigations?
TURNER: Yeah, good morning, Kasie.
You know, that's a great question and I think the message is really clear. This is sending a clear and unequivocal message that the FBI should -- FBI agents should be careful who they attempt to hold accountable for crimes. And I think Andy McCabe is right. That's a disturbing and absolutely inappropriate role for any government.
Look, we're talking about some of the most highly qualified and skilled FBI agents that we have in law enforcement. These are the people who investigate fringe groups, and these are some of the people who look at highly technical issues that allow us to go after criminals across this country. So yeah, this sends a really chilling message to FBI agents, and I'm really concerned about what this means for the ability to keep all of us safe going forward.
HUNT: Shawn, can you help us understand a little bit about how this might affect what the FBI is doing every day? As I was reading some of the coverage --
TURNER: Yeah.
HUNT: -- on my way in this morning this idea that if there is a case that you are assigned to work on that might impact someone that Donald Trump is friends with or cares about might that impact an investigation?
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TURNER: Yeah. You know, look, here's a couple of things I think we need to be really clear about.
We've heard that this survey and that this communication -- these communications have gone to dozens of FBI agents. But to be really clear about this, this case is one in which we're not talking about dozens of FBI agents. There would have been hundreds of FBI agents who in some way would have been involved in investigating the insurgency that happened on January 6.
And when you think about it -- as I said before, when you think about the amount of skill and when you think about the capability of those agents we're talking about either removing or reassigning, or in some other way eliminating the ability of those agents to continue to do the work of keeping us safe every day.
So, you know, this really is the kind of thing that movies are made about and it's the kind of thing that we see in other countries.
The important thing here is the messaging that's gone out to those agencies -- those agents. This is not the time for agents to resign en masse. This is the time to continue to do what we're doing here and to spread the word about what's happening here, and to really help people understand the implications for the safety of each and every one of us. The implications are quite serious because, as I said, we will not be able to track individuals. We will lose some of those skills -- those highly technical skills. And we're also going to devastate the lives of a lot of FBI agents, and I think that's really important, too.
HUNT: It is.
All right, Shawn Turner. Thanks very much for your time this morning, sir. I really appreciate it.
TURNER: Thanks, Kasie.
HUNT: All right. Coming up next here on CNN THIS MORNING East Palestine two years later. We're going to talk to Congressman Chris Deluzio about that toxic train derailment that devastated an Ohio town.
Plus, a stunning trade featuring two of the NBA's biggest superstars.
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TODD INMAN, MEMBER, NATIONAL TRANSPORTATION SAFETY BOARD: We need people to take action. Unfortunately at some point all of you are going to be gone and we're still going to have the investigation open and we're going to make recommendations. We go to East Palestine, a community that gets devastated, and still nothing's happened.
If you want to do something about it, adopt the recommendation of the NTSB. You'll save lives. Get up and do something. I don't want to have to meet with another -- those parents like that again. It's not fair. It could be your family. I'm sorry -- I didn't mean to take it out on you, it's just -- it's just hard. Sorry.
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HUNT: Yeah, it is hard.
In Washington, D.C. this weekend grief and frustration as these communities continue to search for answers about the devastating plane collision over the Potomac River that killed 67 people last week.
The NTSB also now busy launching an investigation into yet another plane crash -- this time in northeast Philadelphia where a Medevac jet crashed Friday night killing seven people and injuring at least 22.
The two deadly incidents raising questions about how to mitigate these transportation disasters. And all of this unfolding ahead of the two- year anniversary of that toxic train derailment in East Palestine, Ohio where communities were also left begging for help and where authorities were making similar promises of steadfast support.
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KRISTINA FERGUSON, EAST PALESTINE RESIDENT: We need help. We do. You don't bring families back with their kids and their loved ones and then tell them to scrub with Dawn.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So I think the question is long term. Is someone going to be here a year from now, two years from now to come back and test the water, test the soil?
MICHAEL REGAN, FORMER EPA ADMINISTRATOR: I'm very clear when I say as long as it takes. We will go through this process with the citizens of East Palestine for as long as it takes.
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HUNT: Joining us now, Democratic Congressman Chris Deluzio of Pennsylvania. His district sits just across the Ohio border from where that toxic derailment occurred. Congressman, good morning.
REP. CHRIS DELUZIO (D-PA): Kasie, good morning.
HUNT: Let's start with the derailment as we mark this anniversary. I mean, you heard there from the EPA administrator at the time this commitment to keep showing up -- to keep coming back until it was all -- until they had answered all of the questions and fixed what the community needed them to fix.
Have they done that?
DELUZIO: Well, we're now under a new administration and I hope the Trump administration continues our federal government's commitment to the folks in East Palestine and my constituents in Pennsylvania.
What our government has failed to do and what the Congress has failed to do is to pass any rail safety legislation. We know from the NTSB the recommendations that should be put in place to prevent this. I had bipartisan legislation for years now that will respond to the East Palestine derailment. That makes sure the rail industry, which is powerful and lobbies, follow some common sense rules. And the Congress has done nothing.
I have been encouraging the Biden administration and now I'm encouraging the Trump administration. Let's put pressure on the Congress. Let's have Democrats and Republicans come together -- many have -- and let's pass rail safety legislation. My constituents and our Ohio neighbors -- they want action, they demand something from the Congress, and they've gotten nothing.
HUNT: A really important reminder, especially considering what we heard there from the NTSB chairman who referenced this in the context of, of course, the deadly plane crashes over the weekend.
Sir, I also do want to ask you about what we are seeing unfold because it's going to impact your region in Pennsylvania. This, of course, historically a site of much American manufacturing. And this is the president's --
DELUZIO: Yeah.
HUNT: -- trade war with Canada and Mexico. Also, of course, some tariffs on China.
What impact are these tariffs going to have on your constituents?
DELUZIO: Well, as you say, I represent people who have made a lot for this country. We still make steel and a heck of a lot else. And I know, just as a lot of my constituents do, smart and strong tariffs and trade enforcement are part of good trade policy. We don't want to live through lousy trade deals as we have for decades.
[05:50:10]
But to see the president put weaker tariffs on China than Canada is crazy, and the cited reason here being tough on fentanyl. Let's get tough on fentanyl. Unfortunately, this administration -- I don't know if it's ineptitude or what -- they didn't even take action to stop the flow of substances, and materials, and packages coming from China around fentanyl because they didn't put in place rules that would require those things to be inspected like normal imports.
So they're going to continue the flow of these materials -- these precursors -- fentanyl products from China unless they do something, and they've done nothing here to tackle the problem of fentanyl.
HUNT: Sir, what do you think Democrats in Congress should be doing right now to push back against some of the Trump administration is doing? And I would be remiss if I didn't ask you about the efforts of DOGE at the Treasury Department where they've gained access to systems and the threat to shut down the USAID.
DELUZIO: Yes. So we should be using every lever we can in the Congress to stand up for the rule of law. To stand up for the fact that the Congress passes laws, and the president executes them. It's not -- the Executive Branch does not have all power in this country, and folks in both parties in the Congress would be wise to remember that.
And look, I think hearing an argument like the one I just made, which is grounded in reality, about the administration pointing to action on fentanyl and then going soft and weak on Chinese exports of fentanyl into this country.
That's a problem and it goes to how inept this administration has been on something where a guy like me from western Pennsylvania -- I want stronger and stiffer trade enforcement. But what they're doing here and going soft on China and letting fentanyl products continue to come in unimpeded and uninspected doesn't make any sense.
And I think they need to wake up about what they're doing. And if you're going to have big, tough talk, well back it up with action that actually integrates with better trade deals and better trade enforcement, and common sense things that we know our government can do to protect us from fentanyl.
HUNT: Do you think these tariffs are going to make your constituents' grocery prices higher?
DELUZIO: They might. I think it's a real risk. And by the way, I looked at what happened in this election and the one before it in 2022. People have been made for a long time about rising costs. They are made about groceries, and housing, and gas prices -- you name it.
And what I think and I'm going to see out of the Republican majorities in both Houses -- remember, they have control of Congress along with the White House -- they're looking to jam through a massive tax giveaway to big corporations and billionaires. They have no economic plan beyond trickle down economics. That has never worked for the people I represent and it's going to do nothing to bring down costs. That's their economic program.
There could be an asteroid coming for Earth and the Republicans are going to get in a room and come up with a tax giveaway for rich people. It is not a way to govern, and it will do nothing to bring down costs.
HUNT: All right, Congressman Chris Deluzio. Very grateful for your time today, sir. Thanks very much for being here.
DELUZIO: Thanks, Kasie.
HUNT: All right, see you soon, I hope.
All right, time now for sports. The NBA trade deadline isn't until Thursday, but we've already seen what's being called arguably one of the biggest trades in league history.
Late Saturday night news broke that the Mavericks were trading their superstar Luka Doncic to the Lakers in a three-team deal that also sent Anthony Davis to Dallas.
Doncic arrived in Los Angeles on a private jet last night. The five- time All-Star one of the most impactful players in the league but he's been sidelined since suffering a calf injury back on Christmas day.
The 25-year-old released his first statement across his social media accounts yesterday. Here's what he said. "Seven years ago, I came here as a teenager to pursue my dream of playing basketball at the highest level. I thought I'd spend my career here and I wanted so badly to bring you a championship."
He went on to say, "In good times and bad, from injuries to the NBA Finals, your support never changed. Thank you not only for sharing my joy in our best moments, but also for lifting me up when I needed it most."
Some fans in Dallas didn't take the news of the deal very well. Dozens of protesters gathered outside the Mavericks' home arena holding signs calling it the worst trade in NBA history. Some people even chanted "Sell the team."
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm said. I came to protest, honestly. I came to protest the whole front office.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I mean, we literally traded our franchise player away and only for one first-round pick.
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HUNT: Yikes, so hard.
Meantime, Super Bowl week officially here. The teams arrived in New Orleans yesterday ahead of Sunday's big game. The Chiefs touching down in The Big Easy without much fanfare. Patrick Mahomes and company, of course, are looking to become the first team to win three straight Super Bowls.
One of the pilots on the Eagles' plane hung a green and white flag out of the window reading "Go Birds" -- a Louisiana touch there.
[05:55:05]
Philadelphia hoping to win their second Super Bowl in seven years, but the Chiefs are the 1 1/2-point favorites going into Sunday's game.
I still have faith in my birds. I will just say that.
All right. Coming up next here on CNN THIS MORNING, DOGE seizes control. How the world's richest man is using his access to the federal government with an endorsement from the president.
Plus, a trade war erupts. How America's trading partners are planning to strike back at President Trump's new tariffs.
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RONALD REAGAN, (R) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our peaceful trading partners are not our enemies. They are our allies. We should beware of the demagogues who are ready to declare a trade war against our friends.
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HUNT: It's Monday, February 3. Right now on CNN THIS MORNING --
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TRUMP: We put tariffs on. They owe us a lot of money, and I'm sure they're going to pay.
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HUNT: A trade war is on.