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Dr. Jonathan Reiner is Interviewed about the Measles Outbreak; Trump Takes First Appeal to Supreme Court; Mark McKinnon is Interviewed about Trump's Russia/Ukraine Comments. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired February 17, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:31:16]

MANU RAJU, CNN ANCHOR: Health officials in several states struggling with two separate health crises, outbreaks of measles and bird flu cases found in humans. Now, west Texas officials say their measles case load doubled to 48 in just one week. The majority involved children aged five to 17. And all patients are either unvaccinated or their vaccine status is not known. Also, three adult cases have been diagnosed in New Mexico.

Meantime, a new CDC study shows three veterinarians of 150 who agreed to be tested had antibodies against the bird flu, meaning they had the disease but no symptoms. We also learned a poultry worker in Ohio became the first human case in that state.

Joining me now is CNN medical analyst, a professor of medicine and surgery at George Washington University, Doctor Jonathan Reiner.

Doctor Reiner, good morning to you. Thank you so much for joining me.

As you know, the first measles case in Texas was detected in late January. Now the number is up to 48 of those cases. Those numbers really telling a story. How much does it have to do, do you think, with increased anti-vaccine sentiment, and how concerned are you about the rise?

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: Oh, it's going to go much higher, Manu. It's completely related to anti-vaccine sentiment. That part of Texas has a - actually Texas as a whole has a very liberal opt-out policy for vaccinating kids before school. And in Texas, about - in that county in Texas, 18 percent of kindergartners, their parents opted them out of vaccination.

So, there is a huge opportunity for a very opportunistic virus like measles to infect kids if it gets into the population. And that virus, as I said, is incredibly efficient at infecting people. If you bring an infected person into a room with ten unvaccinated people, nine of those people will come down with the virus. The virus can linger in the air for a couple of hours after a person has - an infected person has left. So, it's a very efficient pathogen. And what's sad about this is that this is completely preventable. The

vaccine is - is really spectacularly effective at preventing infection. About 98 percent effective at preventing infection. So, every single person who's coming down now with measles in Texas is basically acquiring this disease because they have not been vaccinated.

RAJU: And, Dr. Reiner, on bird flu, there have been several cases of bird flu detected in humans, the latest in Ohio this weekend. How concerned are you about this spreading and - and what do you make of the fact that there's now the conditional approval of this bird flu vaccine in the United States?

REINER: Right. So, over the last few days the USDA approved a vaccine for poultry, for bird flu. We actually had one approved in 2016. It was added to the U.S. national strategic stockpile but was never used. There are some countries that are now vaccinating poultry for bird flu, including China and Mexico. The U.S., in the past, has used the strategy of culling flocks rather than trying to vaccinate poultry stocks to prevent spread of this virus. But this virus - but this outbreak has gone on now for about two years. And it's very possible that bird flu is just now endemic in the flyways in the United States.

[06:35:01]

And this is going to set up a very interesting dilemma for this administration in its early weeks. Although the USDA has approved - has approved the vaccine, it has not yet approved its use. And although the USDA is responsible for approving the vaccine, it's hard to imagine that the new secretary of HHS, who has a very vocal history of opposition to just about any vaccine and also has entered this administration with a portfolio including making our food safer, won't have something to say about it.

But if you've been to a - if you've been to a supermarket in the last few weeks, you've noticed that not only are eggs increasingly expensive, they're also becoming harder and harder to find. So, the U.S. has a decision to make, whether to vaccinate the flocks in this country and deal with the political repercussions of that from the GOP base, or deal with rising egg prices and maybe eggs coming in from Mexico.

RAJU: All right, Dr. Jonathan Reiner, thank you so much for sharing your expertise this morning. Really appreciate it.

And now turning to this.

President Donald Trump's swift and sweeping executive actions during his first few weeks in office are facing several legal challenges. Now he's appealing the first one to the Supreme Court. He's asking the court to let him fire the head of a government ethics watchdog agency.

Now, Trump attempted to fire Hampton Dellinger earlier this month. Dellinger leads the office of the special counsel. But there are protections put in place by Congress that require an administration to show cause for firing someone from the role if it's before their five- year term has ended.

Now, a federal district court temporarily blocked Trump's move while it considers the case. An appeals court declined to overrule that decision this weekend. And that prompted the Justice Department to take its appeal to the Supreme Court while arguing the law is unconstitutional.

Now, last week, Trump was asked about the legal fights his administration is facing. Here's what he said.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're being hindered by courts where they file in certain courts where it's very hard to win, and a judge will stop us and a judge will say that it doesn't make any difference what you find. You just keep paying the money. That's a hell of a way to be. And I follow the courts. I have to follow the law. All it means is that we appeal. But that gives people time to cover their tracks. And that's what they do.

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RAJU: My panel is back.

Well, Stephen, what are the implications of this? If Trump wins in the Supreme Court, you know, we have all these other cases that are testing his executive power. What is the implication down the line?

STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR REPORTER: I think the administration would interpret it as a sign that all of its expansive view of presidential power has been validated, and that would ripple through all the other cases.

That said, I think there's an assumption that, well, the Supreme Court majority was built by Trump in his first term, and it's necessarily going to go along with everything that he thinks about presidential power. I'm not sure that's necessarily the case, at least for a couple of the justices. Chief Justice John Roberts among them. So, it's going to be very interesting to see how he handles some of these questions.

But it gets back to the fundamental issue we're having early on in this administration is this clash between the powers of the presidency and Congress, and the fact that you have a rather, you know, a Republican Congress that is almost abrogating its powers to the presidency because it doesn't want to challenge Republican presidents. So, it's really about the functioning of the political system.

RAJU: Matt, why does Trump want to fire all these government watchdogs? I mean he got rid of these inspector generals right at the outset. That's not normal. They typically don't come in and get rid of these guys who - who investigate government agencies. Why does he want to do all this?

MATT GORMAN, FORMER TIM SCOTT PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN SENIOR ADVISER AND REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: I think he views him as political appointees, just like they would any other agency. He's really (INAUDIBLE) - RAJU: But there are seven confirmed and some of them are not from, you know, Biden.

GORMAN: Yes. One of the things that interests - that I found kind of funny is everything old is new again because one of the rationales that the Trump administration's using for this case is our old friend Sean Spicer, who's the former White House press secretary. He was fired by Joe Biden from a Navy advisory board, lost that case, and now it's making it's way now as legal justification that the Trump administration is using to try and use these sorts of things through presidential appointee power.

Again, I mean, I think it's interesting to see - I think Stephen's point's well taken. I'm curious to see if the administration - or, excuse me, the Supreme Court, even though it's a conservative bent, will go along with this sort of thing. But, yes, I think they view them as all presidential appointees, not just differentiated.

MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER BIDEN WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF MESSAGE PLANNING AND DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: I also think, though, to your - to your point about Congress abdicating its power, I think that what is old is new again. Republicans really need to be careful because in two years they might not be in control of the House. They might have a little bit more opposition. And you - they would be remiss if a Democrat came in and did this. They would be losing their minds.

So, I just think that you have to be really careful with the precedent that you're setting here. And this is, again, why we have three co- equal branches of government to sort of regulate these things.

[06:40:04]

This person's - the predecessor to this person was a Republican that was appointed by Trump and confirmed by Trump. So, I just - these - these people are not supposed to be political and they are not in these roles being political. So it will be interesting to see again how Congress and the Supreme Court acts here.

RAJU: And some of this is a clear violation of the law.

HAYS: Yes.

RAJU: Like, Trump is supposed to notify Congress. He didn't do that. And they're doing this intentionally because they know this is going to be challenged in court and they believe they can win this in court. That's essentially what Pam Bondi, the attorney general, said about what the strategy is. And they're going to fight all these cases in court and take it to the Supreme Court if necessary.

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PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: We are prepared to defend all of these cases, and we will carry out President Trump's agenda.

These judges are lifetime appointments. But what we can do is appeal them. And that's - that's what's actually happening today in a case. We're appealing a case right now. It went up to the First Circuit. And the First Circuit sent it back to the district court to clarify. And if they don't rule in our favor, we will go to the United States Supreme Court and get clarification and get a ruling.

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RAJU: I mean, that's the whole ballgame, take it to the Supreme Court and win in this conservative court. And maybe that will happen in this first appeal.

COLLINSON: Right. And say they get 45 percent of favorable returns to the Supreme Court. That's changing the nature of the presidency and the government. So, even if they lose a lot of these more sort of some would say absurd challenges that they are making and claims of power, in the end, Trump is going to expand his authority.

RAJU: Yes, no question about it. All right, we'll see. This is going to take some time to play out. But that first case, it could be a ruling here maybe as soon as this week. We'll see.

All right, up next on CNN THIS MORNING, President Trump's concessions to Russia before peace talks begin. Mark McKinnon joins us live to discuss.

Plus, "Saturday Night Live" celebrates a major milestone, 50 years, with returning cast members and recreating famous sketches of the past.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm Janice.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Oh, Janice. (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm Holly.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Like the bush.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm Margaret.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You sure are great.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I'm Janice (ph).

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[06:46:32]

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REP. DAN CRENSHAW (R-TX): My message to European leaders is, if we want to win, if we want a better outcome for Ukraine at the end of these peace talks, you need to be uncomfortably aggressive. You need to not just bolster your own defense spending, I mean because that's a long term issue. That's a long term investment. You need to be talking about where you're going to be putting actual troops on the ground. Stop following our lead and actually take the lead.

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RAJU: Republican Dan Crenshaw of Texas calling on Europe to shoulder a bigger load in the defense of Ukraine.

Now, overnight, Secretary of State Marco Rubio touching down in Saudi Arabia ahead of Tuesday's negotiations with Russia to end the war in Ukraine. The Ukrainians have not been offered a seat at the table, at least that table, but Rubio tamping down expectations for the talks.

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MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: President Trump spoke to Vladimir Putin last week, and in it Vladimir Putin expressed his interest in peace, and the president expressed his desire to see an end to this conflict in a way that was enduring and that protected Ukrainian sovereignty. And that was an enduring peace, not that we're going to have another invasion in three or four years. That's a good call.

Now, obviously, it has to be followed up by action. So, the next few weeks and days will determine whether it's serious or not.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: The White House says dual track negotiations will be held in Ukraine this week. And President Trump insisting he is not squeezing Ukraine out of the process.

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REPORTER: Do you expect Zelenskyy to be involved in these conversations? What will his role be?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Yes, I do. I do. He will be involved, yes.

REPORTER: Zelenskyy said today that Russia is going to wage war on NATO. Do you - do you agree with that? Do you have any concerns about -

TRUMP: No, I don't agree. I don't agree. Not even - not even a little bit.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: All right, Mark McKinnon is with us this morning. He's a former adviser to President George W. Bush and former senator - the late Senator John McCain.

Good morning, Mark. Thanks for joining me.

Of course, as I mentioned, you work for Bush and McCain. I want you to give me your big picture sense of how the GOP has evolved on the issue of Russia from the time of Bush and McCain to how Trump is dealing with Putin now.

MARK MCKINNON, CREATOR, "THE CIRCUS": Good morning, Manu.

Yes, that's a great question because I've been thinking a lot about that. You know, we were pretty focused on what's happening domestically and how Trump is really taking a wrecking ball to a lot of tradition, expanding executive authority. But in the long term, history may record that the greatest impact he had - he's having or will have is on foreign policy, because he is really completely reshaping 80 years of a consistent policy of supporting NATO and our European allies and fighting Russia.

And, I mean, for the longest time that I can remember, the sort of fundamental tenet of the Republican Party with McCain and Bush was that you stand up to Russia, you don't stand with them. And I guarantee you, John McCain's rolling over in his grave and George Bush is rolling his eyes in disbelief at what's happening because this is really a fundamental thing. And, listen, I agree with Dan Crenshaw that there needs to be reform in NATO. But this isn't really about that. This is about our relationship with an authoritarian government.

And think about the things that Trump has said. I mean, first of all, he says, of course - he says Russia wants to stop the fighting. Well, of course they do. They want to stop it right now and keep what they've taken. They've - they've taken 20 percent of a sovereign territory. Number two, they're saying that you - Trump says that Ukrainians may be Russians someday.

[06:50:05]

Number three, he says, Russian - Russia fought for that land and lost a lot of soldiers. As if that's a rationale for them keeping what they took. I mean, that's just - that's an astonishing thing to say.

So - so, yes, you're right, for Republicans like me who crossed the bridge with George W. Bush and work with John McCain, what's happening right now in terms of our relationship with Russia is really quite shocking.

RAJU: But I guess to play devil's advocate here, I mean, look, the war in Ukraine has been going on for now, what, three years now? Things don't seem to be getting better. And this could be a way to end this brutal war. So, working - talking nicely with Putin, working with him, might - well, can't that be an effective strategy?

MCKINNON: Well, sure, it could be if you didn't say the things that Trump has said about Russia and made it - making it clear that - that he - I mean Pete Hegseth has already taken off the table the notion that they could be a member of NATO. So, yes, it's - of course it's a good thing, and it should be the United States obligation to try and play a role in this as we have historically. But it's not to take sides, as Trump clearly has with Putin.

RAJU: And then I want you to listen to what President Zelenskyy had to say about the way these talks have been going.

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VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: So, I will never accept any decisions between the United States and Russia about Ukraine. Never. And our people, never.

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RAJU: You know, it seems, Mark, that Zelenskyy's comments here are suggesting that they're going to have to rely more on Europe than the United States going forward. I wonder what you think the implications are for the U.S. and its relationship with our - its allies in Europe?

MCKINNON: Well, I mean, as you've read the reports from Europe after the visits last week from United States officials, including J.D. Vance and Pete Hegseth, they're in a state of shock. I mean they - we are just completely disabling an 80 year relationship. So, it's, you know, in cards they call it 52 card pickup. They're just - they're just kind of starting all over again, or at least that's the way Trump would like it in terms of our relationship with Europe and NATO. And, you know, it just makes me think about we're attacking our allies and people who have been friends of ours through, you know, an 80 year alliance of people and, you know, countries like Canada, and we're embracing countries like Russia that have these authoritarian regimes, which Trump seems to be very attracted to.

And, you know, it gets down to a fundamental question of what are our values and what do - you know, what - what are the principles of the United States foreign policy?

RAJU: All right, Mark McKinnon, we appreciate your perspective. Obviously, a lot to digest. We'll see if they are successful in these talks. Trump is saying that they're going to include Ukraine in a separate negotiation. We'll see if they eventually merge and there's a peace deal that could be worked out.

Mark McKinnon, thank you so much for your perspective. Really appreciate it.

MCKINNON: See you, Manu.

RAJU: And 52 minutes past the hour. So here is your morning roundup.

The Trump administration is firing hundreds of Federal Aviation Administration probationary employees. The move comes less than three weeks after the deadly midair collision over Washington, D.C., that killed 67 people. The FAA system that provides critical safety alerts failed days after the crash. Now, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy posted on X that the DOGE team would help upgrade the aviation system.

Pope Francis is in stable condition as he continues to receive treatment for bronchitis. The pope was admitted to the hospital on Friday and was unable to leave Sunday's prayer. The pope thanked the health care workers for their efforts.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. President, thank you for joining us at this year's great American race, the Daytona 500.

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RAJU: And that's President Trump, attended the - attended the Daytona 500 Nascar premier race in Florida on Sunday. Before the race, the presidential limousine, of course, known as The Beast, did ceremonial laps around the track before the race. Mr. Trump's appearance at Daytona comes shortly after he made history as the first sitting president to attend the Super Bowl.

And a powerful and deadly winter storm, killing at least ten people in the southeast. And Kentucky, particularly, being the hardest hit state. And it's not over yet.

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GOV. ANDY BESHEAR (D-KY): Our first responders, our National Guard, our Kentucky State Police have now rescued more than a thousand people. We have shelters set up, and then we're out there trying to reopen our roads.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Now, parts of the south, central and northeast U.S. now prepping for another arctic blast. And that could bring another round of brutal temperatures.

Now, over the weekend, NBC hosting a series of events honoring the golden anniversary of "Saturday Night Live." Former cast members, musical guests, and celebrity hosts gathered to honor 50 years of comedy.

[06:55:05]

It culminated in a three hour long special Sunday night that honored iconic "SNL" sketches, new and old.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Have you seen the latest study on alcohol? Even one drink can significantly slash life expectancy.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Welcome to black jeopardy, the only jeopardy where every single viewer fully understood Kendrick's halftime performance.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why you trying to live without Domingo (ph), baby. He, he, he.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But, hold this. I have to do this dance for work (ph).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: All right, I'm sorry, where do you work?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm the press secretary at the White House. This is like, if people are so angry about DEI, it's like, well, stop drinking and driving. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rise up, election conspiracy is gonna rise up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: All right, my panel is back.

All right, Matt, you saw it last night. What's your reaction?

GORMAN: It was good. That's why I'm a little tired this morning. It ended pretty late. I wanted to know -

RAJU: That's why I dozed off a little early.

GORMAN: Yes, exactly. No, I thought it was - I thought it was really great. It's hard to make these moments that we've been waiting essentially years for, actually hit the heights that we expect them to. It did. They had Jack Nicholson, who is, I think, above 90 or pushing 90 out there, hasn't been seen in a while. Great sketches. Will Ferrell was hilarious. I thought it was really, really well done.

RAJU: So, let's talk about some of our favorite moments from "SNL" over the years. Stephen Collinson has this one.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: You know, Hillary and I don't agree on everything.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Anything.

I believe that diplomacy should be the cornerstone of any foreign policy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And I can see Russia from my house.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: Of course, that was Hillary Clinton and Sarah Palin really becoming an iconic moment.

COLLINSON: Right. And I think that was almost cruelly accurate, that portrayal by Tina Fey of Sarah Palin during - who was the vice presidential nominee for the Republicans in the 2008 campaign. And in a way, that was a rare example, I think, of a satirical presentation actually playing into what was happening in the campaign, because it played up some of the perceived inexperience of Sarah Palin, the Alaska governor. And that became a big issue for McCain in that campaign.

RAJU: Yes, no question. I mean that's really the thing about these - a lot of these political sketches, it reinforces a lot of the vulnerabilities that these candidates have.

HAYS: Yes, and during - during the campaign season, watching "Saturday Night Live," everyone does it during - on each campaign. You talk about the next day. It's talked about in the news. It's - it is a vulnerability. That was a massive failure for them - for the McCain campaign, that I think that really played out on "Saturday Night Live." And it, you know, these specials and these sketches really give a look into pop culture, but it really does sort of imitate what's going on in the country.

RAJU: Matt, you have another -

GORMAN: Yes.

RAJU: We asked our panelists here about some of the different things that they have enjoyed over the years. This is what Matt chose.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Governor Bush, the next question is for you. Two weeks ago, at a meeting of the Economic Club of Detroit, you said the following, quote, more seldom than not, the movies gives us exquisite sex and wholesome violence that underscores our values. Every two child did. I will. End quote.

What did you mean by that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Pass.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RAJU: That's good.

GORMAN: That was good. That was good. That whole sketch was just full of it. When I - you had Al Gore talk about the lockbox earlier - later in the sketch, you had Jim Lehrer, the guy who played Jim Lehrer, Chris Parnell, reading off a bunch of foreign leaders names, and Bush getting really confused. It was really funny.

And to Meghan's point, right, there's so many defining eras we could talk about that -

RAJU: That (INAUDIBLE) the strategery was (INAUDIBLE).

GORMAN: Strategery.

RAJU: Yes.

GORMAN: Don't mess with Texas. That was a - that was chock full of them. And I mean you had Norm MacDonald during the O.J. Simpson trial during weekend update, so many of - like kind of cultural moments you can measure by "SNL." It was - it was fantastic. I was laughing about that this morning.

RAJU: I mean, for me, it's super fans.

GORMAN: Yes.

RAJU: As a - as a Bears fan, da bears, you know, that's - became an iconic moment of a -

GORMAN: Yes.

RAJU: As a Bears fan. Waynes World. I mean, come on, there's just so -

HAYS: Oh.

RAJU: So many good things from - from (INAUDIBLE). I mean that was - I mean the heyday, in my opinion, of "SNL" was -

GORMAN: Yes.

RAJU: You know, the Chris Farley, the Phil Hartman, Dana Carvey.

GORMAN: Phil Hartman was very underrated. I mean, very appropriate. He was - he was fantastic. Absolutely.

HAYS: So many of our movies today that are - that are chock full of comedy, but all - a lot of things, these people got their start on "Saturday Night Live."

GORMAN: Oh, yes.

HAYS: And it's incredible to see their success now. I mean you saw it last night with Tina Fey. It's just - it's incredible to see that they got their start on "Saturday Night Live," had these like moments in our time and then now are massive movie stars.

[07:00:01]

GORMAN: You can see them all crammed in, the celebrities next to each other, and engage.

HAYS: Yes. Yes.

GORMAN: It's - they're now - you know, it's really - to see Jerry Seinfeld, it's Julia Louis-Dreyfus, next to Conan O'Brien.

HAYS: Yes.

COLLINSON: Yes.

HAYS: And it gave a nice break from politics last night.

GORMAN: I agree.

HAYS: That whole three hour special not talked about what we are, Donald Trump every minute.

GORMAN: Beats the NBA all-star game, right?

RAJU: Yes, indeed.

All right, that was fun. Thanks, guys. And thank you to our panel. Thanks for joining us. I'm Manu Raju. CNN NEWS CENTRAL starts right now.