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CNN This Morning
Hamas Releases Bodies Of Four Hostages To Red Cross; Zelenskyy Says Trump "Lives In A Disinformation Space; Americans Divided Over Trump's Immigration Actions. Aired 5:30-6a ET
Aired February 20, 2025 - 05:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[05:33:20]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Coming up on 5:33 a.m. here on the East Coast. A live look at Norfolk, Virginia blanketed in snow this morning. Good morning, everyone. I'm Jim Sciutto in for Kasie Hunt. It's great to have you with us.
It's just a painful day for Israel as the bodies of four slain hostages made their final journey home. Militants displayed four black caskets before transferring them over to the Red Cross just a short time ago.
The remains said to include the youngest of the 250 hostages kidnapped by Hamas on October 7. Ariel Bibas just four years old at the time. His younger brother Kfir nine months old. The handoff said to include the bodies of their mother Shiri as well as 83-year-old Oded Lifshitz.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu called this a day of sorrow.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): We are bringing home four of our beloved hostages fallen. We embrace the families, and the heart of an entire nation is torn. My heart is torn. Yours, too. And the heart of the entire world needs to be torn because here we see who we are dealing with, what we are dealing with -- what monsters we are dealing with. We are sad, we are hurting, but we are also determined to ensure that something like this will never happen again.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Here now, CNN's Paula Hancocks. And Paula, amidst the understandable heartbreak there those two young babies really, right, became such a face of October 7 being the youngest hostages taken.
[05:35:00]
That said, these exchanges are continuing, and you will have more live hostages released on the weekend by Hamas. But a deal that a lot of folks that wouldn't survive is surviving at least for now -- the ceasefire and hostage release deal.
PAULA HANCOCKS, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It is, Jim, and it seems to be accelerating in some respects when you see the amount of hostages that are being released at this point.
Now, obviously, today is a day of sorrow in Israel as the Bibas family is said to be in those caskets. As you mentioned, they really have become synonymous with the October 7 attacks from Hamas on Israel. Their images projected around the world with the campaign and their protests to push for the release of the hostages.
But what we have seen over this week is that there were negotiations ongoing in Cairo. We know that the Israelis sent a delegation. We understand that the mediators -- the U.S.-Qatar-Egypt all worked very hard to try and keep this deal together. And the result of that appears to be this acceleration.
So Hamas has released the remains of four deceased hostages today -- earlier this morning. On Saturday there will be six live hostages released -- that's double the amount that had been agreed upon originally -- in return for Palestinian prisoners. And then next week there will be another four remains of deceased hostages released.
That brings us to the end of phase one. That is the 33 hostages that had been agreed upon within this six-week ceasefire.
Now, after that is supposed to be phase two from the beginning of March, and that is where the concerns lie because the negotiations that are ongoing at this point are still dealing with phase one. There isn't this push for phase two, which there should have been by this point.
And there are also concerns that as Hamas appears to be accelerating the release of these hostages that there are concerns in Israel that there is not the political will to go on to phase two. Concerns, of course, when you see images like you did today that Hamas appears very much in control of at least that small area of Gaza and that particular hostage handover. One of the stated goals of the prime minister was to destroy Hamas and the images we're seeing from Gaza show that is not the case.
There is also a lot of pressure in his coalition on the far right of a return to military action and not to move --
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
HANCOCKS: -- to phase two.
So there are great concerns as to what will come in the coming weeks.
SCIUTTO: Yeah, and I think that we could safely say that show of force at these releases in Gaza by Hamas is quite deliberate. A message to Israel that well, they're at least not gone.
Paula Hancocks, thanks so much. Back now to the rapidly widening rift between President Trump and the Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy. This over Trump's apparent move to strike a deal with Russia -- Ukraine not involved -- to end Russia's ongoing invasion of Ukraine.
On Tuesday the two leaders went after one another quite publicly. Zelenskyy accusing Trump of living in a disinformation space for his repetition of Russian talking points about its ongoing invasion. Trump fired back false calling Zelenskyy a dictator both on social media and in a speech. We should note he's the elected president of Ukraine.
Vice President J.D. Vance issued a warning to Ukraine's leader, telling the Daily Mail, "The idea that Zelenskyy is going to change the president's mind by badmouthing him in public media -- everyone who knows the president will tell you that is an atrocious way to deal with this administration."
Trump says his motivation is to avoid World War III.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: The death that's taking place between Russia and Ukraine, it's been going on and we're going to end it. There's no profit for anyone in having World War III. And you're not so far away from it, I'll tell you right now. You're not so far away. If we would have had this administration for another year you would have been in World War III, and now it's not going to happen.
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SCIUTTO: Trump once again won't say Russia invaded Ukraine.
Joining me now, CNN military analyst and retired Air Force Colonel Cedric Leighton. Good to have you, Cedric.
David Frum, former special assistant, we should note, to George W. Bush and now a writer at The Atlantic -- he made a point about Trump's comments about Zelenskyy. Because you've had these comparisons recently to 1939 -- Neville Chamberlain and peace in our time, et cetera -- from writing, "Neville Chamberlain, to do him justice, never amplified under his own byline Hitler's propaganda against the Czechs."
[05:40:05]
A little history lesson here when at the time, the idea was -- well, give Hitler a little piece of Czechoslovakia and we'll avoid war. Of course, we know how that worked out.
That is a notable point here because Trump is not just saying I want to end the war in Ukraine; he is -- he is repeating Russia's framing of this war. And can you just explain how big a deal that is just in the simplest terms to have a U.S. president endorse the Kremlin's view of an invasion that it started?
COL. CEDRIC LEIGHTON, AIR FORCE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST (via Webex by Cisco): Yeah. Good morning, Jim.
It's a really unprecedented situation because when a President of the United States is taking Russia's framing -- Putin's framing, specifically -- to describe what has happened it would be one thing if the Russian position was based on reality, but it is absolutely not based --
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
LEIGHTON: -- on anything that is -- that is true. And that is really the space that we're living in.
So what Zelenskyy did when he talked about President Trump inhabiting a disinformation space, he was basically telling the truth when it came to this issue. And that, you know, -- of course, sometimes the truth hurts, I guess. And that is the situation that we're finding ourselves in.
I think one of the things that this administration in the U.S. is going to find is that the more you deal in disinformation space, to borrow Zelenskyy's phrasing, the worse your decisions are going to be. So this is going to be a real challenge --
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
LEIGHTON: -- to move people into a reality space where they actually deal in actual facts where Russia was the one who invaded Ukraine.
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
LEIGHTON: Russia has been the aggressor against Ukraine.
SCIUTTO: It doesn't appear that the president has any willingness to do that.
It strikes me that something broader is going on here because Trump is not just signaling an end of U.S. support for Ukraine. At the Munich Security Conference his advisers, right up to the vice president, signaled a U.S. retreat from Europe.
And as he talks with Russia about a broader deal and floats an idea of some sort of broader deal with China he's also, it seems, signaling a retreat from the international order that the U.S. has defended for 80 years under Democratic and Republican presidents. You know, U.S. alliances standing up for sovereign borders, et cetera, to frame this in a way which is like I could make a deal with Russia and China and each deals with its own little corner of the world and everybody will get along.
I mean, these are dramatic changes that Trump seems to be signaling here.
LEIGHTON: Yeah, absolutely, Jim.
And one of the key aspects of this is that the international world order with all of its flaws that was created after World War II -- the so-called Pax Americana or --
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
LEIGHTON: -- American peace. There were perturbations in that. We had Korea, we had Vietnam, and we had other situations that occurred. Obviously, 9/11.
But all of these things basically made it possible for the European continent to raise itself up from the destruction of World War II and create what amounts to a peaceful society. It set the -- not only the basis for NATO but also the basis for the European Union. And with the exception of what happened in the former Yugoslavia up until Ukraine, it basically provided for a very peaceful existence within Europe.
SCIUTTO: Right.
LEIGHTON: The exceptions being domestic terrorism in the '70s in many European countries. But by and large, Europe was a very peaceful location, and that has changed.
You know, the President of the United States is a very transactional person as we all know, and it seems that he is trying to create a new international order where there are co-equal partners -- Russia and China being the partners that I guess he sees with the United States.
The problem with that is that Russia is actually -- sees itself at war with the United States and the West. And that war doesn't necessarily have to be one like we see in Ukraine. It can have hybrid elements. It could have --
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
LEIGHTON: -- cyber attacks. It could have assassinations. All of those kinds of things.
And ever since Putin's speech in 2007 at the Munich Security Conference of that year, it's been pretty clear that the Russians see the West as basically a rival element -- a rival power that is --
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
LEIGHTON: -- preventing Russia from achieving its greatness. And that is why it's going to be really difficult to achieve a lasting peace with those kinds of attitudes in Moscow and for the U.S. president to be supporting those attitudes instead of avoiding World War III. Unfortunately, we might be heading toward some kind of conflict that could spiral --
[05:45:00]
SCIUTTO: Right.
LEIGHTON: -- out of control into a third world war.
SCIUTTO: Listen, both Russia and China made it quite clear through their actions and even their statements that weakening the U.S., weakening Europe, weakening alliances are in their strategic interests. And, you know, the idea that they're going to abandon that seems farfetched.
Colonel Cedric Leighton, thanks so much.
Ahead on CNN THIS MORNING --
LEIGHTON: You betcha.
SCIUTTO: -- today marks one month -- one month for President Trump in office. How his crackdown on immigration is actually playing out along the southern border.
Plus, round two. The U.S. and Canada getting ready to face off for a hockey championship after -- a game I was at -- a fight-filled opener.
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[05:50:00]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
TRUMP: They have deployed active-duty U.S. military and National Guard troops to the border to assist in repelling the invasion. It was really an invasion.
J.D. VANCE (R), VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're not doing anything other than basically facilitating the massive illegal invasion into the United States of America.
TRUMP: The day I take the Oath of Office the migrant invasion of our country ends and the restoration of our country begins.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Listen to that word "invasion" and take note because there's method behind that. In just the first few weeks of Trump's return to the White House we've seen swift and hardline immigration action from ordering additional troops to the southern border to arresting and deporting thousands of undocumented immigrants.
Our next guest is Elizabeth Goitein, a senior director at the Brennan Center for Justice. She recently published an article for Just Security warning against President Trump's immigrant rhetoric -- specifically, the use of that word "invasion."
She writes, "The president has not only misrepresented the facts, he has misrepresented the Constitution itself. He has claimed unprecedented authority to ignore and override Congress whenever he proclaims an 'invasion,' real or metaphorical. Congress should muster the courage required by these extraordinary times to condemn Trump's radical attempts to usurp and abuse power."
Elizabeth joins me now. Elizabeth, thanks so much for joining this morning.
ELIZABETH GOITEIN, SENIOR DIRECTOR, LIBERTY AND NATIONAL SECURITY PROGRAM, BRENNAN CENTER (via Skype): Hi, Jim. Good to be with you.
SCIUTTO: So tell us -- explain legally why calling this an invasion -- why he's doing that and what power does that, in effect, open up.
GOITEIN: Or what power he things it opens up. I think that's the --
SCIUTTO: Right.
GOITEIN: -- that's the key word here.
This language of invasion permeates his executive orders on immigration. Now, of course, he's always referred to unlawful migration as an invasion but now with these executive orders he's taken this sort of rhetorical device that he's used to try to drum up fear of immigrants crossing the border. And he's trying to imbue it with legal significance.
There are, in fact, laws and provisions of the Constitution that are triggered in an invasion, but those laws and provisions of the Constitution do not justify the actions that Trump has taken.
So, for example, Trump is relying on this claim of invasion to tee up a possible invocation of the Alien Enemies Act. That's this antiquated wartime authority that allows summary deportation and detention of people who were born in the enemy nation.
He's also used it to direct NORTHCOM. That's the combatant command for the North American continent to drop plans for a military campaign.
And he's used it to try to suspend the provisions of law that Congress has passed that allow migrants to seek asylum and other protections from deportation.
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
GOITEIN: So that is the way that he is trying to use it legally but it's not going to fly because -- for a couple of different reasons.
First, it's very clear in these laws and in these constitutional provisions from the history of their enactment and the way courts have interpreted them that they are meant to address armed attacks from hostile foreign powers or other political entities. They are not meant to address civilians crossing the border without documentation.
SCIUTTO: You know, it's interesting. There's a parallel here because he's used national security justifications or attempted to enforce other elements of his policy. I'm thinking back to his first term when he -- when he used national security to justify tariffs, for instance, on Canada.
How have -- of course, this, like so many things that Trump is doing in his second term will be challenged in court. How have the courts seen this move so far?
GOITEIN: Well, so there have been many lawsuits that have been challenged but we are at the very, very beginning stages. There have been temporary restraining orders in some cases. For example, a challenge to people being transferred from a migrant detention facility in the United States to Guantanamo.
SCIUTTO: Um-hum.
GOITEIN: So -- but for now these things are still playing out.
I think the second legal problem that Trump is going to face is that even if we were in an invasion that would not allow him to just pick and choose which laws that he's going to follow that Congress has passed.
And we know this because during the Korean War when President Truman tried to seize steel mills --
SCIUTTO: Yeah.
GOITEIN: -- in order to enter production, the Supreme Court said you can't do that. That as long as Congress was within its rights to pass the law the president has to follow it even during war time.
SCIUTTO: Now, we --
GOITEIN: And we know that Congress can pass immigration laws.
SCIUTTO: We've seen that. We've also seen this president ignore a lot of things Congress has done, right --
GOITEIN: Yes.
SCIUTTO: -- or attempt to.
Do we know how this Supreme Court views this because it has often had quite an expansive -- the conservative Supreme Court -- expansive view of executive power?
[05:55:00]
GOITEIN: That is true. I do think on this question of what constitutes an invasion or doesn't constitute an invasion, that's the kind of question that the Supreme Court likes to stay away from. Likes to say that it is a political question, not one that the courts will resolve.
But in a lot of cases there's this language suggesting a backstop. That it is possible for the president to go so far to exceed what the court has called a permitted range of honest discretion or honest judgment. I forget the language. And in those cases I think the court -- the court might intervene.
And on this other question of what an invasion would allow the president to do -- whether it allows the president --
SCIUTTO: Um-hum.
GOITEIN: -- to simply ignore immigration laws and that the right for migrants to seek asylum, I'm hopeful that the courts will say that there's no basis in the law for that.
SCIUTTO: A lot to watch from the courts this term, God knows.
Elizabeth Goitein, thanks so much for joining this morning.
GOITEIN: Thanks, Jim. Take care.
SCIUTTO: And ahead on CNN THIS MORNING, President Trump hits the brakes on New York's congestion pricing. He is coronating himself as king. The White House even posting a mock magazine cover of the president, as you can see there, wearing the crown.
Plus, Trump teasing that taxpayers could get a kickback from DOGE cuts.
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