Return to Transcripts main page
CNN This Morning
Zelenskyy and Trump Envoy Speak; Hegseth Orders Cuts; Angela Stent is Interviewed about Ukraine; White House Shares Trump Image. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired February 20, 2025 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:31:44]
JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: Thirty-one minutes past the hour. Five things you have to see this morning.
Federal workers are marching in protest over the wave of layoffs hitting agencies, nationwide we should note. Last night they demonstrated outside the D.C. office of SpaceX, which is, of course, one of Elon Musk's companies.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I will now engage -
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: How do you pronounce his name?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In the time-honored American tradition of peaceful civil disobedience.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: That's former Minnesota Vikings punter Chris Kluwe getting arrested at a Huntington Beach City Council meeting on Tuesday. He was speaking out against plans to install a MAGA plaque at a California library. Kluwe tells CNN he was charged with a misdemeanor for disruption and was held for just about four hours.
Now, after months of delays, the SS United States ocean liner is finally on the move. The historic vessel began its journey out of Philadelphia and down the Delaware River. It's being towed to the Florida panhandle, where it will become the world's largest artificial reef.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You've been very good.
LeBron! Lebron! Look out! Look out below!
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: That was big. Vintage LeBron there. Check out that dunk. Going strong at 40 years old, scoring 16 of his 26 points in the fourth quarter last night. The Lakers, however, coughed up a double- digit lead, were upset by the Charlotte Hornets, 197 in their return from the all-star break. Still a pretty nice dunk.
These otters do not have a sled in their enclosure in Knoxville, Tennessee, but that didn't stop them from having some fun in the snow this week. They do look like they're having fun. Knoxville's red pandas enjoyed apples as they chilled in the snow. Who doesn't like cute animals in the morning?
Ahead on CNN THIS MORNING, something far more serious, a blowup between President Donald Trump and Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy in public. How Ukraine is reacting to a U.S. president falsely declaring their elected leader a dictator.
Plus, the Pentagon is now bracing to become the next department to face budget cuts under the Trump administration. Big woods.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Let's cut our military budget in half. And we can do that. And I think we - and I think we'll be able to do it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:38:34]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The future of Ukraine is not real bright right now because of everything we hear in news from Trump.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The biggest disappointment and fear for me to understand that these three years was waste of time. We lose a lot of people, friends, relatives, and nothing changed.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Sad words there to hear.
Right now, President Trump's Ukraine envoy is in Kyiv for a face-to- face meeting with the country's president, Volodymyr. Zelenskyy. Zelenskyy and Trump are trading barbs in the media this week. Zelenskyy claiming Trump lives in a misinformation space. Trump falsely claiming Zelenskyy is a dictator. The Trump administration opened peace talks with Russia, without Ukraine, which Russia invaded, at that negotiating table. An issue simmering beneath the surface, Ukraine's valuable deposits of
rare earth minerals. The Trump administration wants access to them, ownership of them as payback for U.S. military assistance to Ukraine. Zelenskyy refused to sign those rights away. Trump spoke about the issue last night on Air Force One.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We told them that the deal is, we'll do something for the rare earth and some oil, et cetera, et cetera. Then that would be all right. And they agreed to it, more or less.
And then Scott Bessent actually went there and was treated rather rudely because essentially they told him no, and Zelenskyy was sleeping and unavailable to meet him.
[06:40:09]
He went there to get a document signed. And when he got there, he came back empty. They wouldn't sign the document. I'm going to resurrect it, or things are not going to make him too happy.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Joining me now, CNN chief international security correspondent Nick Paton Walsh from Kyiv.
And, Nick, I wonder, what do Ukrainians think of a U.S. president demanding half of their country's natural resources as payback for military assistance to defend themselves?
NICK PATON WALSH, CNN CHIEF INTERNATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, it is extraordinary over the past two days, really, just to speak to Ukrainians who are oftentimes struggling to catch up with the things they're hearing from the Trump administration.
We've understood from various sources familiar with the proposal offer that indeed it wasn't just payback for future aid, it was essentially the Trump administration saying, well, you owe us for the stuff that the Biden administration gave you. Give us access to your rare earth minerals. And that document, 16 pages long, two or three pages legalese, and then a dozen pages of specific places and assets that they had in mind. So, quite specific.
The notion that Zelenskyy was asleep, that President Donald Trump said there, and didn't meet Bessent. Well, that's not true. There was a joint press conference they gave, an extensive one. I'm sure at some point during the time Bessent was here, Zelenskyy went to sleep, and I'm sure Bessent did too. But it's an extraordinary comment to make suggesting that essentially Zelenskyy himself has rejected that deal. He has said, yes, I wouldn't sign it. I have to guarantee Ukraine's interest. It wasn't a ready legal document. They haven't rejected it outright, but I'm sure they want to see better terms there. And they've said publicly they want to see security guarantees as part of that. Zelenskyy said to me yesterday, look, if you don't give us boots on
the ground, you won't give us more military aid necessarily to fight, then give us air defenses to defend our skies. Ukraine hit constantly at the moment. And so there's growing concern here about the phrase "dictator" being used around Zelenskyy, about how he's refusing elections. Yes, Ukraine has not had elections during wartime. That isn't far from abnormal in European history when countries have indeed been attacked. And we've seen European leaders come to his aid, essentially. The British suggesting that they didn't have elections throughout World War II because they were under bombardment.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
WALSH: And we've heard European leaders too come forward and say they do not believe that Ukraine is run by a dictator. And some suggesting that, in fact, Vladimir Putin, the one man who Trump is very eager to not criticize it seems at the moment.
So, a startling turn in foreign policy for the United States here. A lot of bewildering rhetoric. The future of Ukraine's mineral resources on the table here, essentially I think they're arm twisted, if they want to keep the aid that will keep them fighting.
But above all, you know, you heard at the start there ordinary Ukrainians, people are dying as I'm talking to you now here. Hundreds a day on the front lines. That is often missing from the discussion here, the sort of Twitter burns we're seeing between world leaders and statements at press conferences. And I think that is going to hove (ph) more clearly into view as we see western support here, particularly from the Trump administration, falter.
Jim.
SCIUTTO: And we've seen, you know, as those talks and discussions of talks have been happening, Russia has been amping up its air attacks, as we know you are witnessing very much yourself there on the ground.
Nick Paton Walsh in Kyiv, thanks so much.
Coming up next on CNN THIS MORNING, we're going to continue our conversation about President Trump calling Ukraine's president a dictator. Russians are now praising Trump as he further distances himself from Ukraine, despite Russia's ongoing invasion.
Plus, fierce pushback after the White House tweets out long "live the king," with a picture of President Trump. Well, there you see it, wearing a crown.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. KATHY HOCHUL (D-NY): New York hasn't labored under a king in over 250 years. And we are not - we sure as hell are not going to start now.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:48:19]
SCIUTTO: Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is ordering the military to prepare for drastic spending cuts. On Tuesday, Hegseth sent a memo asking Pentagon leaders to draft proposals for an 8 percent budget cut every year for the next five years. There is a disconnect here. The day after Hegseth sent the memo, President Trump endorsed a House Republican budget plan that raises military spending by some $100 billion. Here is Hegseth himself just last week calling for an increase in military spending.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE HEGSETH, U.S. DEFENSE SECRETARY: I think the U.S. needs to spend more than the Biden administration was willing to, who historically underinvested in the capabilities of our military.
Listen, any defense secretary would be lying if they said they didn't want more. You always want more. But we live in fiscally constrained times where we need to be responsible with taxpayer dollars. We're $37 trillion in debt. That's a national security liability as well.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: So, what is it, up or down? The proposed cuts would slash tens of billions of dollars from the budget in just the first year. It would be the largest decrease in the DOD budget in more than a decade.
Our panel is back now.
Help me understand this, Joe Walsh. Republicans have said, and Trump has said, and Hegseth said just last week, increase the budget. Now they're saying, cut it by 40 percent. What's the truth?
JOE WALSH, HOST, "THE SOCIAL CONTRACT" PODCAST: I don't think they know what they're doing. I think this is all to pave the way, again, for Elon Musk to escort into another major agency. We're not going to cut the defense budget by half over the next five years. That's crazy.
SCIUTTO: OK. But, Meghan, listen, we know the Pentagon spends - wastes a lot of money. I mean this goes back, like, you know, to years and years, like the $800 toilets.
[06:50:00]
I mean this has been a thing for a long time. So, you could imagine there's some political support for at least finding waste, right?
MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER BIDEN WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF MESSAGE PLANNING AND DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Oh, absolutely. But I think there's political support for finding waste in all of these agencies. I think it's the way that they're doing it. And I think a lot of these members are going to have issues with cutting military bases and personnel and - and also goods and services made in their districts. Those are big moneymakers for these people's districts. I think that's where we - SCIUTTO: That's a big barrier.
HAYS: Where we hit the third rail on this.
SCIUTTO: Yes, no question. They always talk about jobs from these contracts, no question - as do lobbyists, I think.
Stay with us because we're going to have more to talk about.
While the relationship between President Trump and President Zelenskyy is unraveling before our eyes, the Kremlin is taking note as top officials in Russia hail the change from the U.S. president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SERGEY LAVROV, RUSSIAN FOREIGN MINISTER (through translator): On Trump has, I think, for the - is the first western leader to publicly and openly say that the cause of the Ukrainian conflict was the efforts of the previous administration to expand NATO. And no western leader has actually said that before.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Just a note there, Sergey Lavrov, days before Russia invaded Ukraine in 2022, said it was not going to invade Ukraine. Just a note about his credibility.
Joining me now to speak about all this, Angela Stent, a senior fellow at the Brookings Institute.
So, we have Russians celebrating Trump's comments because, well, in fact, they're pretty much the same, right? Their description of the war, their description of the Ukrainian president.
Tell us, does Russia see a victory in this with Trump as president?
ANGELA STENT, AUTHOR, "PUTIN'S WORLD: RUSSIA AGAINST THE WEST AND WITH THE REST": Oh, certainly. I mean, we know that the Kremlin wanted Donald Trump to win the election. I think in their wildest dreams they wouldn't have thought that all of this would happen so quickly, that they'd be rehabilitated and that he would essentially tell, you know, tell us their - their talking points. He's repeating their talking points.
And so - and then now attacking Zelenskyy completely groundlessly. I think they're just, you know, they've been opening the champagne and vodka bottles for a few weeks now, but particularly this week.
SCIUTTO: Let me ask you this, because there is quite open disagreement between the U.S. now and its closest allies in Europe, who are, like Zelenskyy, publicly contradicting President Trump. Can Europe stand up to Russia without the U.S.?
STENT: It's going to be very difficult for them. I mean they haven't spent enough on defense, you know, at least in the past 30 years, if not more. And they can try and help Ukraine. They want to do it. But without the U.S., it's going to be very difficult for Ukraine to continue this war.
And make no mistake, Putin is not interested in any peace deal with Ukraine. He's interested in what he's getting, which is international rehabilitation, lifting of sanctions and no U.S. support for Ukraine.
SCIUTTO: When you speak to - when I speak, and I'm sure it's similar for you, to the leaders of eastern European countries, those closest to Russia, and, by the way, who lived under Russian power just quite recently, just a generation ago as part of the Warsaw Pact or the Soviet Union, they say they could be Russia's next target, right? If Russia wins in Ukraine, that it might very well attack them.
Do you believe that that is a fair fear?
STENT: I think it is a fair fear. It's not an immediate fear, but I think if Russia prevails in Ukraine and is able to subordinate it, get rid of Zelenskyy and have a pro-Russian government, Putin's not going to stop there. He's been explicit. He wants to restore what he believes are rightfully Russian lands. And that includes certainly the three Baltic states.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
STENT: But he's gone further than that. He's talked about eastern Europe to.
SCIUTTO: Yes, no question.
There have been a small number of Republican voices here in the U.S. willing to contradict Trump's rewriting of history, really, of the Ukraine invasion. Do you believe that Congress has a power to hem in this retreat from Ukraine, retreat from Europe, or as commander in chief, does the president have the ability to do it if he wants to do it?
STENT: Well, I mean, Congress does have some powers. But it's unclear whether they're going to exercise them. And we have even, you know, our secretary of state who said completely different things, Marco Rubio, when he was a senator about Ukraine than he does now.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
STENT: But, you know, Trump has a very expansive view of what executive power is. And he's trying to make sure that Congress couldn't contradict what he wants to do.
[06:55:00]
SCIUTTO: Angela Stent, so good to have you on this morning. Thanks so much.
STENT: Thank you.
SCIUTTO: Speaking of battles, this one at home.
A battle brewing between President Trump and New York Governor Kathy Hochul. The Trump administration yesterday killed New York City's congestion pricing. A newly implemented tolling program that aims to raise money for infrastructure projects, but also address what is really nasty traffic in central New York. If you've spent any time there in the last several years. When Trump announced his plans to get rid of it, he posted what on social media? This. Quote, "congestion pricing is dead. Manhattan and all of New York is saved. Long live the king."
What did the White House do? Well, it went on its official X account to reshare that message, along with this image of Trump wearing a crown. And those words, "long live the king." That prompted the New York governor to fire back.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. KATHY Hochul (D-NY): New York hasn't labored under a king in over 250 years. And we are not - we sure as hell are not going to start now.
The streets of this city, where battles were fought, we stood up to a king, and we won then. And we will - in case you don't know New Yorkers, we're going to fight.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: I almost felt like she was going to quote Alexander Hamilton at one point there. Maybe break into song.
Isaac, you covered New York politics yourself for some time. Where does this go from here?
EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: It goes to court. And we'll see what happens.
Look, I - the first time that congestion pricing was part of my coverage was in 2006 when Mike Bloomberg proposed it then. This is a long, ongoing process that has roiled a lot of New Yorkers for a long time. It also, in the weeks that it has been implemented, has, as you said, changed the way traffic looks in the city.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
DOVERE: And with a plan to raise a lot of money, billions, $15 billion into the - the Metropolitan Transit Authority fund, which would be for improving infrastructure and also for safety on the subways. So -
SCIUTTO: Yes. Which New Yorkers and their elected leaders - well, I mean, obviously, New Yorkers are complaining. New Yorkers are good at that.
DOVERE: Sure.
SCIUTTO: But they do have local representatives who implemented this plan.
Joe Walsh, I thought the Republican Party was for local leadership, local authority. Let the states decide, et cetera.
WALSH: No, now the Republican Party is all about embracing a king. I don't know the first thing about congestive pricing. Isaac, I'd love to talk to you about it.
I don't think this is funny, and I don't think it's trolling. When the president of the United States refers to him as a king, and the White House doubles down on that, we don't have kings in America. And I think the American people would be wise to take this kind of stuff seriously.
SCIUTTO: Because it's coupled, right, with - with the vast expansion of executive power via executive order and so on.
WALSH: With what he's doing. Yes.
SCIUTTO: Sorry.
DOVERE: Yes, when - when Joe Biden was president, there was the whole dark Brandon thing and the White House aides would post images of him with lasers shooting out of his eyes. Nobody thought Joe Biden actually had lasers shooting out of his eyes. Donald Trump is acting in a way that is centering more and more power on his own presidency.
SCIUTTO: Right.
DOVERE: And just doing - and overriding what other people want. And it's not - it's not in a vacuum (INAUDIBLE).
SCIUTTO: And it is an example of like what we should focus on, right? I mean the tweet is one thing, an image is one thing. But look at the moves, the decisions, et cetera.
Meghan, I want to ask you about the Democratic response to this, quoting the Illinois Governor Pritzker. Here's how he responded.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. J.B. PRITZKER (D-IL): We don't have kings in America. And I don't intend to bend the knee to one. If you think I'm overreacting and sounding the alarm too soon, consider this, it took the Nazis one month, three weeks, two days, eight hours and 40 minutes to dismantle a constitutional republic.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCIUTTO: Does that argument land?
HAYS: So, I'm not sure that it lands. His speech was part of the state of the state address, which was very compelling, the back half of that speech, and a lot of things that happened in Illinois that - that the people actually rose up and kind of put this - the Nazi - they were a march and stuff. So, it was a very compelling moment in time.
I do think that Democrats are going to have a problem with messaging here. We don't - we - we're not good at messaging about democracy. And I think that this is what really doesn't land well with people.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
HAYS: And I think, again, it goes back to how people are feeling about their kitchen table issues. They don't understand the importance of some of these Democratic views because it doesn't - it has not impacted them in a way -
SCIUTTO: Right. Not - at least not yet, right?
HAYS: Exactly. And so, I think that it will have to come - hit them at home before they - they act.
SCIUTTO: Molly, what about conservative voices who are not happy with this? I'm thinking of, you know, for instance, "The Wall Street Journal" editorial board, which every once in a while will say, well, he's gone too far. Does that have an impact on Trumps thinking?
MOLLY BALL, SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT, "WALL STREET JOURNAL": Not perceptibly. And I think he's, you know, consolidated his power within the Republican Party.
Look, I mean, I - I think the Democrats are in a tough spot here because I've heard from a lot of Democratic activists, members of the Democratic base, even elected officials, that they like what Pritzker is doing because he is stepping forward and he is, in his words, sounding the alarm.
[07:00:07]
And there's a concern among a lot of Democrats that they have to get ahead of what's happening and channel the angst that so many people are feeling.
SCIUTTO: Yes.
BALL: And there is - and I - and they look at particularly the leaders on Capitol Hill and feel like sort of, you know, where are they?
SCIUTTO: Where are they? And, we'll see. It's early.
Thanks so much to all of you. I think I owe you a coffee at this point. And thanks to all of you for joining us. I hope you get your coffee soon. I'm Jim Sciutto. CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts now.
