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Southwest Flight Nearly Collides With Private Jet In Chicago; Voters Unleash Anger On GOP Lawmakers Over DOGE Cuts; Johnson And Trump Pull Off Budget Win To Advance GOP Agenda; Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired February 26, 2025 - 6:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:30:46]

KAYLA TAUSCHE, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: A Southwest Airlines flight nearly collided with another plane while landing in Chicago on Tuesday. The incident unfolding at Midway Airport, where video that you're looking at right now shows the Southwest flight coming in for a landing.

But just before touching down, a jet appears on the runway just ahead. The Southwest pilot immediately pulls back up and then has some questions for air traffic controllers.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Southwest 2504, going around.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: 2504, roger that. Climb, maintain 3,000.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And tower, Southwest 2504, how'd that happen?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAUSCHE: You can hear the Southwest pilot asking, how that happened? The FAA and National Transportation Safety Board have that same question and have opened an investigation.

Passengers on the flight say the close call reminded them of what has already happened so far this year.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

EMILY NOVAK, PASSENGER ON SOUTHWEST FLIGHT: I just feel very thankful for who we had flying our plane.

CALEY MASZK, PASSENGER ON SOUTHWEST FLIGHT: Yes. And I was already kind of anxious going on the plane just because of what's been happening this year so far with all the flights, you know, crashing and things happening. So I was already anxious.

And then when that happened, I was extra thankful. Very thankful for the pilot and everyone who was involved. (END VIDEO CLIP)

TAUSCHE: Joining me now is Mary Schiavo, CNN transportation analyst and former Inspector General at the Department of Transportation.

Mary, there have been several incidents this year that have not been confidence inducing for American flyers. "The New York Times" reporting that at Ronald Reagan National Airport, American Airlines flight 2246 arriving from Boston was making a final descent when it suddenly canceled its landing, climbed toward the skies, and accelerated away from the airport.

That was an aborted landing. And it was to avoid a plane getting ready for takeoff. Both of these incidents happened within 90 minutes of each other.

And then there was also the same airport where the mid-air collision happened just last month. So what is going on here? Are we just becoming more aware of these incidents because we're on high alert?

MARY SCHIAVO, CNN TRANSPORTATION ANALYST: Well, no. We are certainly more aware because we're on high alert, but these airport near collisions, we call them near misses, but obviously they're near collisions. They're called runway incursions. And every year we have, well, for example, in 2024, we had 1,758 of them. So that's more than three a day.

And this has been a fairly consistent number. We had a little drop in the numbers last year, the year before last.

But when we have, you know, 1,500, 1,700 of these every year and it's very alarming. And that is the worst, one of the worst statistics in aviation safety. Everybody says it's safe to fly.

Well, the problem is it's safe to be at the airport because that's where the greatest hours of exposure come to people to this danger. And that is something that even when you have the equipment, for example, at Midway, they had the most current equipment to alert the tower, to alert pilots, to avoid collisions.

But in this case, the private jet pilot, at least in my opinion, seemed very confused just from leaving the apron area from the private pad, had to get instructions twice, repeated the instructions back wrong, was told to hold short, not cross the runway.

And that's somewhat understandable because this particular airport, when you look at the airport map, it looks like a plaid kilt. I mean, there's just so many intersecting runways, taxiways, et cetera. So that one is explainable. But, yes, we have a lot to worry about at our airport's near misses.

TAUSCHE: So roughly three per day. And I take your point that it's not more than normal, but there was also another close call over the weekend at an airport in San Francisco. It involved the same air carrier that came in too low and crashed back in 2013 and killed three people. Here's the air traffic controller telling that flight that they were coming in too low. Let's listen to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Low altitude alert. Asiana 212 heavy. Check your altitude immediately, altimeter is 3026.

Asiana 212 heavy, are you correcting?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Asiana going around.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Asiana 212 heavy, roger, going around. Prior runway heading.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAUSCHE: So, do you think that is something that could have been a more serious incident than it was?

[06:35:01]

SCHIAVO: Yes. And I -- and I worked on the crash of Asiana Flight 214 back in 2013. And they're, you know, very similar communications with the -- with the tower. They're -- in that case, they were not watching their airspeed and then their altitude deteriorated. They literally had not engaged the auto throttle on that plane.

And to see this, you know, uncoordinated and not stabilized landing, you have to ask several questions. One, one of the things that came out of the Asiana 214 crash is a big criticism over what's called crew resource management. What's going on in the cockpit? And are the pilots communicating with each other? Are they double checking their altitude, airspeed, et cetera?

And I think that is why that the NTSB might look at it. The FAA is certainly looking at it to see if that resource management has or has not improved, especially in light of some accidents in Korea where the airline is from.

TAUSCHE: Of course, the context for these incidents happening at this moment right now is that the FAA and the NTSB are subject to the same personnel and technological overhauls as the rest of the federal government. And there are questions about the impact that those overhauls would have on operations.

Just this week, Transportation Secretary Sean Duffy was talking specifically about the needs of air traffic control. Here's what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEAN DUFFY, TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: In a lot of these air traffic control centers, they're using floppy disks. A lot of your young viewers don't even know what that is, but this is really old technology. The communication system with the internet is not well served. So again, that doesn't go to air safety, but that does go to the technology that we use.

Government takes 8, 10, 15 years to upgrade systems, and that's the -- that's the enemy of progress. So we're going to do this very quickly. We're going to look at a year, year and a half time frame and do massive upgrades, improve the systems, help air traffic controllers, keep our skies safer.

And again, time is the enemy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAUSCHE: So now we're learning about how outdated some of these systems might be, Mary, but we're also learning that Elon Musk's Starlink has a new contract to assist the FAA, raising some conflict of interest concerns.

Do you think that the technology is so outdated that someone like Musk can help it? What's your view here?

SCHIAVO: Well, technology is outdated, but even when I was inspector general, I had investigation after investigation of the -- not only the outdated technology, but the fact that the FAA had great difficulty managing these contracts.

We were scrapping billion dollar air traffic control modernization contracts because the FAA was simply not on top of the contractors.

So, yes, we need improvement. Yes, we need more equipment and we need better investment. But most of all, we need oversight over these contracts and contractors. So if we're going to bring in Starlink, somebody's got to be on top of this, and somebody at the FAA has to be in charge and know what they're doing.

And the problem is we found when I was inspector general, we just didn't have the expertise within the department to run these contracts and so contracts and contractors were running them up. Going to take some great oversight. And I hope Secretary Duffy is prepared for that. He's got to have top people on it.

(CROSSTALK)

TAUSCHE: Hopefully officials -- hopefully officials will heed to that warning from someone who has seen this firsthand.

Mary Schiavo, our thanks to you this morning.

SCHIAVO: Thank you.

TAUSCHE: Behind closed doors, several House Republicans pleaded with leadership yesterday, asking for guidance on how to respond to questions from their home districts on recent federal cuts and calls for more involvement in the DOGE job-cutting process. Voters have been turning out to town halls across the country, expressing frustration over how DOGE is operating. CNN's Tom Foreman has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you OK with the chaos being created?

REP. MARK ALFORD (R-MO): Are you OK? Government employees are going to be let go, but that's just the reality of it.

TOM FOREMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Shouted down at town halls --

(CROWD SHOUTING)

REP. RICH MCCORMICK (R-GA): Hey, hey. Let's restore some order. So yelling at me is not going to get any answer, OK?

FOREMAN (voiceover): Protested on their way to work.

CHERYL SAUCIER-WILSON: We've lost 10 percent of our workforce.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shut up and let him talk.

SAUCIER-WILSON: I will not, sir.

FOREMAN (voice-over): Republican lawmakers are being hammered by voters, including their own over the Department of Government Efficiency, or DOGE, which is chainsawing federal jobs in blue and red states alike.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Right now, I think we should just be using a scalpel.

FOREMAN (voiceover): And some elected leaders are now pushing back on DOGE's unelected cutter-in-chief.

SEN. JOHN CURTIS (R-UT): If I could say one thing to Elon Musk it's, like, please put a dose of compassion in this. These are real people.

MCCORMICK: When you have a president who can affect somebody's business or somebody's livelihood it just needs to be done with deliberation.

FOREMAN (voice-over): For weeks the parade of departing workers has been growing from the FAA to the IRS, from health agencies to the Small Business Administration, from Veterans Affairs to the National Parks, and more.

[06:40:13]

And when Elon Musk demanded this past weekend that all remaining workers justify their employment in an email or be fired, President Trump initially was all for it. DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I thought it was great because we have people that don't show up to work and nobody even knows if they work for the government.

FOREMAN (voice-over): But around a dozen departments in Trump's own administration effectively told their workers to ignore Musk. Trump appeared to back down leaving party bosses to put the best face on a bad situation.

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): I think the vast majority of the American people understand, and applaud, and appreciate the DOGE effort.

FOREMAN (voice-over): Polls, indeed, show voters want less government waste, but a slim majority now think DOGE has gone too far.

And by the hour, it seems more GOP congress members are subtly backing the resistance.

SEN. THOM TILLIS (R-NC): If I were like a Senate-confirmed head of a department and I had somebody from the outside undermining my ability to manage and demonstrate there's one leader in every department, I'd have a problem with it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

TAUSCHE: Let's bring in the panel to discuss this. Lulu, your reaction to what we just saw from voters?

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Yes. Americans don't -- everyone's invoking the American people, let me invoke the American people.

Americans don't like to have things taken away from them. That is a true thing I think that you can all embrace. And when they see government not working for them, they want cuts, they want to take away fraud, but at the same time, they don't want the fear that planes are going to be falling out of the sky.

They don't want their taxes not to be processed on time. They don't want to have their national parks shut down. And so I think what you're going to be seeing is everything that goes wrong in America, at the moment, is going to be pointed at Elon Musk, and that picture of him with that chainsaw, and they're going to say, he's to blame for that. So this is a high risk strategy, I think, for the administration.

TAUSCHE: Matt, anecdotes are not data but we're starting to get some data that puts numbers behind this with 51 percent of respondents in a recent CNN poll saying that President Trump's efforts to cut federal programs have gone too far.

Fifty-four percent say they do not support him giving Elon Musk this prominent role. And a full 53 percent are afraid or pessimistic about the rest of his term. How do you digest those numbers?

MATT GORMAN, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: A couple of things. I mean, I think you're right. We talked about this the other day as well. I was there in -- doing the House Republican work in 2018. We had the House -- the health care town halls. And they were a lot more intense, a lot more well populated than this.

And I think that was far more of the median voter. You didn't see the, jail my president, which is not indicative of the swing voters.

But what I will say is this, what did ring true for me is I remember coming in. And a lot of the members of Congress get very spooked very, very quickly based off this. They come in with reports rushing in and it really kind of overtakes them.

So what I would be very, very careful and what I would counsel, you know, folks to do, if they're on my side is, you got to have a strategy to kind of counter this and calm these members down because they're going to go home and feel this exact same pressure.

And again, I think they need to make sure that they're selling whether it comes to the reconciliation bill and all those things are going through Congress in a really effective way. That's going to be key.

TAUSCHE: And as for Democrats' strategy to combat this, James Carville, who's an elder statesman in the party, has called for what he is describing as a strategic political retreat.

He writes in "The New York Times," allow the Republicans to crumble beneath their own weight and make the American people miss us. Is that the right strategy?

MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER BIDEN WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF MESSAGE PLANNING: I mean, I don't think Democrats have a lot that they can do right now, but watch all of this happen. There's not much that they can do to stop DOGE, right? The president is in charge of that. So I think that he's not wrong in letting this sort of happen. But this is why elections have consequences. And that's why the midterms will be so crucially important for Democrats going into 2020, especially if they want to get any power back to have any power in the government again. So I do understand what he is saying there. I don't think Democrats have another strategy, but to watch things sort of crumble.

TAUSCHE: Carville suggests that, you need to let Trump's approval rating fall by about 10 points. And then in his words, make like a pack of hyenas and go for the jugular. Never want to mince words from James Carville.

Ahead on CNN THIS MORNING, House Speaker Mike Johnson exhaling a little bit this morning. His effort to jumpstart President Trump's agenda off to a pretty good start, but major hurdles for the GOP budget still remain.

Plus, from green cards to gold cards, the new plan from President Trump to boost a different kind of immigration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I am Donald Trump to talk to you about the remarkable convenience of the Visa Check Card.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[06:45:11]

TAUSCHE: What was supposed to be a 15-minute House vote last night on Capitol Hill turned into an hours-long saga for President Trump's agenda. At first, it appeared House Speaker Mike Johnson did not have the votes from Republican members of his caucus to pass that budget blueprint.

But after calls directly from President Trump to a handful of Republican holdouts, the votes flipped in Speaker Johnson's favor.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOHNSON: A lot of hard work ahead of us, but we are going to deliver the American First agenda. We're going to deliver all of it, not just parts of it. And this was the first step in that process.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAUSCHE: Now Republican leaders in the House and Senate have to get on the same page. Both chambers have passed their own budget plans and have disagreed on the best way to advance the president's agenda.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: So the House has a bill and the Senate has a bill and I'm looking at them both.

Each one of them has things that I like. So we'll see if we can come together.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[06:50:03]

TAUSCHE: We'll see if we can come together. It's going to be a weeks' long process, Matt. And yesterday, Senate Majority Leader, John Thune, was chuckling a little bit when he said, yes, the Senate's going to be making some changes to this. So how does this process play out?

GORMAN: I mean, in the end, I think that -- I expect Thune to say something along those lines. But in the end, whatever Johnson can do to land the plate in the House is what the Senate will likely eat with minimal revisions, right? The numbers are too thin there.

It did take two lessons broadly from last night. A, it was a big win for Johnson. I think he's been consistently underrated, facing a lot of these challenges from an accidental speaker to skillfully navigating a lot of these challenges. That's number one. And number two, I think to Lulu's point earlier in the show, if Trump -- and I've said this consistently too. If Trump wants to get his agenda passed, no matter what it is, he has to get in the details, whether it's a speaker's vote, this, he has to get in there and lobby those people and work the phones because that's how he's going to get it done.

TAUSCHE: Lulu, the devil will be in the details as it always is. This is a blueprint. But even if and when the Senate and the House get on the same page, they still have to figure out exactly what their new tax reform bill will look like, exactly where those $2 trillion in cost savings will come from.

And then to win over some holdouts who don't necessarily support a $4 trillion hike to the debt ceiling. So, how are they going to get there?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I mean I think that's going to be the real difficulty here, but I do think they're going to get there. I just see this as it's -- you see this typically in any new administration. The wind is at Donald Trump's back. You know, they have the Senate, they have the House, and they want to show that they know how to govern.

But the devil's in the details in this. You're already seeing Democrats pushing back on what is actually in this about cuts to Medicaid, about cuts to other entitlements. This is something that is very worrying to a lot of people and it fits this wider narrative the Democrats are trying to push which is to say, yes, they can do this, they can govern.

But what is that going to mean to your bottom line individual voters? And that is also going to be the legacy of this.

TAUSCHE: To that point, I believe we do have some sound that we've heard from democratic lawmakers exactly on that. Let's listen to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. GREG LANDSMAN (D-OH): Hundreds of thousands of people in Ohio, tens of thousands in my district, are going to lose their healthcare if this budget passes. Also, they can pay for these ridiculous, wasteful tax giveaways to billionaires and big corporations. It is a very unpopular budget. And I'm not sure they will ultimately have the votes to pass it once people realize, and they realize, that it's a trillion dollars out of healthcare, trillions more in deficit spending, all for what? To give Elon Musk and a bunch of billionaires and big corporations more tax giveaways?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAUSCHE: Democrats, Meghan, are generally aligned on that. But do you think that the -- that message is enough to give many Republicans or independent voters-buyer's remorse?

HAYS: I don't know if they'll have buyer's remorse, but I do think this is where the Democrats have their bargaining power here. And also, it goes to show that what is DOGE actually cutting if they're still going to add $4 trillion to the deficit.

It doesn't make any sense what they're doing here. So I think the Democrats really need to work on their messaging and really focus on getting that out there to the American people, because I do think, to your point earlier, when people start calling into their members' offices, that make the difference. When they start showing up at town halls, members get spooked very easily.

TAUSCHE: Yes. And we will see how it plays out in the coming months. And then, of course, the midterms will be here before we know it. I know we don't want to think about another election already, but that's how it is.

The panel will stay. You guys will be right back. It is 53 minutes past the hour. Here's your Morning Roundup.

The Vatican says Pope Francis spent another peaceful night in the hospital. He is sitting in an armchair today and continuing with his treatment for double pneumonia. Despite showing slight improvement on Tuesday, the Pope remains in critical condition.

A somber day in Israel as the country lines up for the funeral procession of the Bibas family. Shiri Bibas and her two young sons, Kfir and Ariel, were abducted during the October 7th terror attacks and were killed while in Hamas captivity.

They are being laid to rest today after their bodies were returned as part of the ceasefire agreement.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TULSI GABBARD, DIRECTOR OF NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: They were brazen in using an NSA platform intended for professional use to conduct this kind of really, really horrific behavior.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAUSCHE: Director of National Intelligence, Tulsi Gabbard, announcing that more than 100 intelligence officers will be fired for participating in sexually explicit conversations in internal chat rooms hosted by the National Security Agency.

A senior Trump administration official telling CNN that rank and file members of the intelligence community brought the issue to Gabbard's attention.

Plus, this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Would a Russian oligarch be eligible for a gold card?

TRUMP: Yes, possibly. Hey, I know some Russian oligarchs that are very nice people. It's possible.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[06:55:01]

TAUSCHE: President Trump announcing plans to sell $5 million gold cards to wealthy foreigners, giving them the right to live and work in the United States and offering a path to citizenship. Trump says gold card sales will start in about two weeks and suggests millions of them could be sold.

Howard Lutnick, the Commerce Secretary, says that these individuals will have to go through vetting to make sure they are wonderful world- class global citizens.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I will say they have had a version of this before. It was rife with fraud. There was not a lot of oversight. It is hard to have oversight of a program like this. You had people coming into this country who were -- had criminal backgrounds, who were laundering money, all sorts of things.

I'll also just say, one other thing because immigration is a specialty of mine. A lot of people who have a lot of money don't want to become American citizens because America is the one of the few countries in the world that taxes you on your global income.

So if you come here and your money is in Belarus, you're going to get taxed on your money in Belarus even if you are making money here. So --

TAUSCHE: Although Trump has tried to change that.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: He has, but he hasn't yet. And so what I'm saying is, it's not the big fancy thing that's going to bring in I think a lot of people in the way that he envisions.

TAUSCHE: Yes. And if individuals saw that real estate prices in big cities were high now that would surely make it worse.

GORMAN: I remember the Visa Check Card commercials we saw before the break from the -- before, I mean, it was a Derek Jeter, George Steinbrenner. Well, those things were great, actually, had more take me back than that more than anything else for those old commercials.

TAUSCHE: Moving on, Monica Lewinsky is reflecting on the events that made her a household name more than two decades ago sitting down with Call Her Daddy podcast host, Alex Cooper.

Lewinsky sharing how she thinks the situation involving former President Bill Clinton should have been handled.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MONICA LEWINSKY, AMERICAN ACTIVIST: I think that the right way to handle a situation like that would have been to probably say it was, you know, nobody's business and to resign, you know, or to find a way -- to find a way of staying in office that was not lying and not throwing a young person who was just starting out in the world under the bus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAUSCHE: Clinton has defended his handling of the scandal. This is what he told NBC News in 2018.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL CLINTON, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I think I did the right thing. I defended the Constitution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAUSCHE: Let's bring the panel back in. Meghan, obviously, you know, those moments were in the fog of war, right in the middle of a scandal. Now with the benefit of hindsight, do you think Lewinsky is right?

HAYS: I also think we view things differently now with the Me Too movement. There's a lot of different things that we've evolved. I think the way we view some of these issues culturally, I don't think that how we villainized her. I was very young when that happened, but I don't think how we villainized Monica Lewinsky was appropriate by any stretch.

I don't think we would have done that now. I'm not sure that he needed to resign. I don't know. I was very young, so I'm not sure about all the like constitutional issues and exactly. But I do think we villainized her in a way we would not do today. And I do think that we should take a look at how we did that.

TAUSCHE: She's also stepped into the limelight, defending herself, trying to reclaim her own reputation. I'll never forget Adam Grant, a psychologist and professor who's now a thought leader, tweeting, what's the worst advice you've ever received? And she responded, a White House internship will look great on your resume.

HAYS: Yes.

GORMAN: And at the same time, Bill Clinton has retreated. Really, it wasn't until this campaign that he came back, because after that really disastrous interview with Craig Melvin where Melvin asked him very point blank, would you apologize to her? And he really was very defensive about it.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And you see his body language there.

GORMAN: Exactly. So he's -- he went to hiding for, you know, relative hiding for about six years. Until really this campaign with Biden, he didn't really emerge in the same way.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think it's hurt him in the party.

HAYS: Yes.

GORMAN: It absolutely has. GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think it's hurt -- I think it's hurt the Clinton brand. You know, there was a lot of nostalgia in the Democratic Party about the '90s, about balanced budgets, et cetera, et cetera.

GORMAN: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And I think the benefit of hindsight is that actually it was sorted.

GORMAN: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: He did not behave honorably. And whether or not he should have resigned or not, I will leave that to others to decide. But certainly, no one views Bill Clinton in the same way now.

GORMAN: Yes.

TAUSCHE: But there's still no real standardized playbook for dealing with some of these situations, Meghan. I mean, I remember when Al Franken stepped down from the Senate because of allegations against him, and some of those were founded allegations. And I think some Democrats would say that was probably the wrong move.

HAYS: Yes. I think that it just is sort of in a moment of time, right? Like that wouldn't have happened. It probably, you know, Cuomo had to step down too, and then they did investigations, and now he's going to run for mayor.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And now we have a president who has been credibly accused of sexual assault and found liable in a civilian court. I mean, you know, on the other side of this there's been a lot of things that have changed too where there's more permissiveness about what people do in public office.

And so I mean we have Elon Musk who is the father of 13 children and has his ex-partner pleading for him to be a good father on social media. So, you know, I think a lot to discuss about this.

TAUSCHE: Well, one thing that Lewinsky interview will do is spur a conversation as it has for sure.

One quick programming note. If you're missing Kasie Hunt in your day, as we all are, be sure to tune in to her new show. It is "THE ARENA WITH KASIE HUNT" at 4:00 P.M. weekdays here on CNN. Her unique perspective, her reporting to the day's most important stories will all be there. That premieres Monday.

Thanks to everyone. CNN NEWS CENTRAL is right now.

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