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Trump and Vance Erupt At Zelenskyy In Tense Oval Office Meeting; Pope Francis On Breathing Machine After Respiratory Setback; U.S. Federal Workers Receive Second Email On Justifying Jobs; DOGE Fires Hundreds of Weather Forecasters From Agency Focused on Climate Disasters. Iowa Becomes First State to Eliminate Gender Identity Protections; Skype Shutting Down After Two Decades; New Details Emerge Surrounding Gene Hackman's Death. Aired 6-7a ET

Aired March 01, 2025 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:00:30]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: The day early. And I'm glad you're starting with me. Thank you for being here. Welcome to CNN This Morning. It's Saturday, March 1st. I'm Victor Blackwell. Here's what's happening this morning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN ANCHOR: But what specifically do you want to see President Zelenskyy apologize for?

MARCO RUBIO, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: Well, apologize for turning this thing into the fiasco for him that it became.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Reaction is coming in from around the world after that fiery Oval Office showdown between President Trump, Vice President Pence -- Vance and Ukrainian President Zelenskyy. What we are hearing from world leaders and what Zelenskyy had to say about that tense meeting.

There are new details this morning about Pope Francis health, what the Vatican is sharing about the pope's condition after he had to be placed on a breathing machine Friday.

Federal employees are once again being told to report what they accomplished at work this week. And we're learning of new plans to cut 7,000 jobs at the Social Security administration.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An initial interrogation was conducted of Mr. Hackman's pacemaker. This revealed that his last event was recorded on February 17, 2025. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: And police say they now believe that actor Gene Hackman had been dead for days before he was found. What they discovered during a search of his home, why they were also there in the first place.

And more than 160 measles cases now have been reported across the country, most of them as part of that outbreak in West Texas. What you need to know as the numbers continue to climb. That's coming up.

But this morning, the world is wondering what comes next after that dramatic Oval Office clash between Ukraine's President Zelenskyy, President Trump and Vice President Vance. Western allies quickly took Ukraine's side, weakening the already strained ties between the U.S. and its closest allies. Here in the U.S., however, some Republicans are calling on Zelenskyy to apologize, including Secretary of State Marco Rubio.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COLLINS: He said he does not think that he owes President Trump an apology for what happened inside the Oval Office today. Do you feel otherwise?

RUBIO: I do. I do. Because you guys don't see. You guys only saw the end. You saw what happened today, you don't see all the things that led up to this.

COLLINS: But what specifically do you want to see President Zelenskyy apologize for?

RUBIO: Well, apologize for turning this thing into the fiasco for him that it became. There was no need for him to go in there and become antagonistic.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Now, Zelenskyy says that he doesn't feel that he did anything wrong, and he says that Friday's clash with Trump does not have to be a deal breaker.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you think your relationship with Donald Trump, President Trump after today can be salvaged?

VOLODYDMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: Yes, of course, because it's relations more than to President. The historical relations, strong relations between our people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Trump and Zelenskyy were originally meeting to discuss efforts to end the war and potentially sign a minerals deal. That deal ultimately was not signed after the meeting devolved into this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: You don't have the cards right now. With us, you start having the cards.

ZELENSKYY: I'm not playing cards.

TRUMP: Right now you don't have playing card. You're gambling with lives of millions of people, you're gambling with World War III and what you're doing is very disrespectful to this country.

ZELENSKYY: I have respect to you.

TRUMP: Far more that a lot of people said they should have.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: CNN's Jeff Zeleny has more on the diplomatic disaster as it's being characterized. Jeff, good morning to you.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JEFF ZELENSKYY, CNN CHIEF U.S. NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Victor. That dramatic diplomatic breakdown at the White House on Friday, still reverberating, of course, here in Washington and indeed around the world as an effort for a negotiation between the U.S. and Ukraine that could lead to potential peace talks between Russia and Ukraine broke down in dramatic fashion.

And as the president left the White House on Friday evening after spending many hours with his advisers thinking and talking about this, he placed blame on President Zelenskyy for saying he's not a man who wants to make peace.

TRUMP: He's dealing with very strong set of cards. And then he doesn't want to make peace.

So that's where we are. It's very simple. I'm not looking to get into anything protracted. I want immediate peace. President Putin is going to want to make, and he wants to make -- he wants to end it. And you saw what I saw today. This is a man that wants to get us signed up and keep fighting. And we're not doing that, not for this country.

ZELENY: Of course, much of that is counter to the facts. And Zelenskyy replied that he had thanked Americans for their support. He expressed regret in a Fox News interview that the meeting unfolded as it did, but did not offer an explicit apology for standing up for Ukraine and pushing back against Vladimir Putin.

Now, it was an extraordinary meeting. Actually the first part of it was actually quite pleasantries between President Trump and President Zelenskyy. It wasn't until nearly the end, when Vice President J.D. Vance stepped in, that things really devolved very quickly.

The question now, where does this go from here? The White House says President Zelenskyy can come back when he wants to make peace, but what exactly does that mean? There's no question the U.S. has been unwilling to offer any type of security agreement and be a backstop for European forces in Ukraine.

They all point to the fact that Vladimir Putin has violated agreement after agreement. So now, as we head into the weekend, the president in Florida at his Mar-a-Lago resort, the question remains, will this diplomatic channel reopen? Is Ukraine now alone? Those answers are not clear, Victor.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: All right, Jeff Zeleny for us at the White House. Thank you. With me now is Dan Reiter. He's a political science professor at Emory University and the author of "How Wars End." You are the right man to talk with this, talk about this with. Thanks for coming in. How wars end.

Do you think we just saw the end of U.S. support for Ukraine?

DAN REITER, POLITICAL SCIENCE PROFESSOR, EMORY UNIVERSITY: Well, that is my great fear, Victor. I think most Americans, most politicians, want America to continue to support Ukraine. We understand it is a democratic government fighting for stability in Europe against a brutal act of aggression. And we can only hope that relations can be repaired and salvaged.

BLACKWELL: You know, I've had a lot of colleagues, not just here, but across the industry, who described this as a meeting that's off the rails, that it's out of control. Is it off the rails, or does this follow the narrative that we've seen from not just the president, but the vice president leading up to this meeting?

REITER: Well, that's a good question. I think this does show some commonalities in the Trump White House. It's a very transactional view of international relations. They seem disinterested in advancing principles like the support of democracy. And also it seems to be a disinterest in Ukrainian security and leaning towards Putin. So those are some disturbing continuities we've seen in things the Trump White House has emphasized in the past.

BLACKWELL: The president was asked, I think this was actually at the Cabinet meeting, whether he would allow China to take Taiwan by force, and he wouldn't answer that. Do you think we got any insight into answer by what happened yesterday, or did China potentially. Did Xi get answer yesterday?

REITER: I don't think so. I think that the U.S.-Taiwan relationship is pretty stable. And one thing that the trim that the Trump White House has indicated is that though it is willing to pull back on its support for NATO, it still is very focused on confronting China in the West Pacific and East Asia.

BLACKWELL: OK, let's play something here. This is Secretary of State Marco Rubio. Get your reaction to it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUBIO: And he's the only one in the world that has any chance. If Donald Trump tomorrow decides, I don't care about Ukraine, I don't care about Russia, and I don't care about this war, and he walks away. I ask you, I ask everyone, well, who on this planet has any chance whatsoever, even a 1 percent chance of getting the combatants to the table? The answer is there is no one. He is the only one on earth right now that has any chance. If there is a chance at peace, he's the only one that has a chance to deliver on it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: What's your reaction to that?

REITER: Yes, I think that's a bit too narrow. I mean, we have seen other actors, including India, China, and others who are willing to make peace. The Europeans are interested in making peace. So I think if the United States does withdraw, that does not necessarily mean that the war will come to a crashing halt immediately. And peace can still come. Peace can still be created by other international actors.

BLACKWELL: Do you think that there is any independent actor or any coalition that has the heft and the authority that says to Putin that these security guarantees will be enough to keep you on your side of the border?

REITER: That's a very good question. I mean, West Europeans have talked about the possibility of deploying peacekeeping forces to Ukraine once the war ends.

[06:10:03]

They've also talked about continuing to arm Ukraine to maintain its own military power. So although it was much easier if the United States remains involved, it's not necessarily the end of the story. And the West Europeans could fill that gap.

BLACKWELL: Speaking of the West Europeans, the U.K. Prime Minister Keir Starmer has called for this summit of European leaders tomorrow, of course, Macron will be there. President Zelenskyy will be there as well. They've already made the pilgrimage to the US. They've come to the White House. Starmer brought the letter from the king calling for another state visit. I mean, they've done all of the diplomacy.

What can they accomplish? What can they do now to try to get or keep the president Trump on side?

REITER: That's a very good question. I think that the British government is trying to do their best both to do what works best with Trump, with open flattery for example, while at the same time trying to maintain their principled support of Ukraine.

I think they will try to bring the United States back in. They will try to revive the minerals deal because that is the one thing that is the greatest incentive for the United States to become involved and remain involved. Whether they can do so remains to be seen. But that is our hope that they can bring the U.S. and Ukraine back together.

BLACKWELL: And if they get them on side and they get the security guarantees, you know, the Kremlin saw what happened yesterday. How credible are those guarantees when you have a president who is at best reluctantly going to offer those guarantees?

REITER: Yes, I think it's important to remember that when we say the phrase security guarantees, it can mean lots of different things.

BLACKWELL: Sure.

REITER: It doesn't necessarily mean Ukrainian membership in NATO. It could be the deployment of, for example, West European peacekeepers to Ukraine to help deter Russia from considering attacking. It could be a commitment to maintain the flow of military aid to Ukraine because a strong Ukrainian military is an important guarantee of peace. So, some security guarantees could still be established, even if it's short of Ukrainian membership in NATO.

BLACKWELL: All right, Dan Reiter, thanks so much.

REITER: Thanks, Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right. New this morning, the Vatican says that Pope Francis is resting after being put on a breathing machine. The latest setback came after the 88-year-old suffered a respiratory episode yesterday. It was complicated by vomiting. The Vatican source says that the Pontiff who has or has been admitted to the hospital, has been there for two weeks now for bronchitis and then pneumonia. He was not intubated, but he did have to use an oxygen Mask.

CNN reporter Barbie Latza Nadeau is outside of the Pope's hospital there in Rome. We at this hour usually get that big update. What more have you learned?

BARBIE LATZA NADEAU, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, you know, we have a few bits more of information here. We know that he got up this morning and that he had coffee, he read his newspapers. And so he's back from this terrifying episode that we understood happened yesterday.

Of course, an 88-year-old person with mobility issues. He's got double pneumonia in both lungs. He's missing part of one of those lungs. It's a complicated clinical picture and his doctors are doing everything they can to try to get him moving forward.

In fact, he had this respiratory crisis when he was doing physiotherapy. So we, you know, that implies, of course, that they're moving towards recovery. But, you know, it's a roller coaster as they're saying here in Rome.

You know, these reports that come in and then the morning reports, you know, imply that he's doing better and then who knows, we'll get another report in about five hours time which will be a detailed medical report hoping that he's not had another one of these respiratory crisis.

We do know though that crisis did not impact any of his other organs and that he does not have a fever. So these little bits of incremental good news are very important for all those followers, all those people, well-wishers who are here in Rome. This week, coming week kicks off Lent with Ash Wednesday. You've got pilgrims from all over the world here in Rome, well-wishers now for the Pope that had come for Lent. Lent, of course, during that holy jubilee year, making it a far more attended event.

And you know, those people have turned their pilgrimages now into prayer services. We're seeing every night outside of St. Peter's Square. And here at the hospital behind me, people laying flowers and candles and reciting the rosary and other prayers. So it's a meaningful moment certainly for the people supporting the Pope and hopefully we'll get details of better news to come. Victor.

BLACKWELL: Every bit of good news is welcome by Barbie Latza Nadeau for us there in Rome. Thanks so much.

Hundreds of climate scientists are the latest targets of Elon Musk's federal government purge, how the cuts to NOAAH could impact disaster preparedness across the country. Plus, a month into the new Trump administration and there are worrying signs that the economy may be slowing down. We'll tell you what the new data tells us about how we're all managing money right now.

[06:15:02]

And the number of measles cases in West Texas has grown by double digits. The latest on those cases and other outbreaks that doctors are keeping a close eye on.

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BLACKWELL: Federal workers received another email last night demanding they prove their worth.

[06:20:00]

Employees across several agencies tell CNN the new emails directed them to give five-bullet points of their accomplishments last week, and now they'll have to do that every week. That's on top of the new cuts we learned about Friday.

The Social Security Administration says that it plans to cut 12 percent of its workforce. That's about 7,000 workers. The cuts are happening as the number of people receiving benefits continues to rise. Nearly 73 million people get monthly payments from the SSA. And it's not the only agency announcing cuts. CNN's Rene Marsh has more for us. Rene, good morning.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Victor, the National oceanic and atmospheric Administration or NOAA, laid off some 800 employees Thursday. And by this weekend it's possible that number could grow to 1,000 employees terminated.

Now the agency employs scientists and specialists in weather, climate and other research, but there are exemptions to the firings, including those who oversee life threatening disaster forecasting roles, including hurricane and severe thunderstorms.

It is worth noting that NOAA has been understaffed for years even as the climate crisis accelerates and extreme weather just becomes way more frequent. But these -- and these terminations will certainly be a blow to the agency.

Now these latest firings are coming as all government agencies are readying plans for large scale layoffs that could mean entire divisions being cut. The Office of Personnel Management has said non- essential positions or positions that are not required by statute should be cut. At least that's the guidance they gave to these agencies.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Rene, thank you. With us now, Washington correspondent for Spectrum News, Kevin Frey. Kevin, good morning to you.

Let's start with these emails because the last time these went out there were several departments and agencies who said don't respond to that, pause or ignore it. There was a lot of confusion about what they'd be used for. Is it any clearer now the purpose of these emails?

KEVIN FREY, WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, SPECTRUM NEWS: I think we have to watch over the next few hours to see if we once again repeat this sort of scenario where some of the agencies come out and say actually you don't need to do this, which set up this sort of friction between Elon Musk and particularly some of those that deal with national security, where you saw even Trump allies that have basically pledged to work for Trump at the FBI, the NSA, the list goes on, advising the employees to slow walk this and don't necessarily engage.

It seems there might be a call for the employees to essentially say I deal with national security matters, so we're going to leave it at that. But even that raises new questions. But keep in mind, the employees in the midst of all this are kind of being experiencing a degree of whiplash.

I remember after the first time one of these went around -- went out, an employee I was texting with at one of the federal agencies basically said her anxiety level is at a higher level than it's ever been. And so this does create this kind of constant sense of confusion.

BLACKWELL: Yes. And Musk described them as a literal pulse check to make sure that people were alive. I guess he's checking now every week to determine if they're still alive because they've got to send in these bullet points.

Four dozen agency sites, the lease terminations for these facilities have been listed by DOGE. And Rene went through the layoffs at NOAA and Social Security Administration. Could this hurt budget negotiations? We're just a couple of weeks out from running out of money.

FREY: Yes. I mean, and this has caused a lot of confusion as the negotiations are ongoing and basically both sides have different factors at play. For the Republicans, the question becomes, OK, do we pass legislation that basically refunds all of the agencies that Trump and DOGE have tried to basically carve out?

And Trump is out of confusion to this. It's worth noting by suggesting that they pass a quote, clean CR, which raises all sorts of questions as to whether or not that means fully funding things as they were previously before DOGE got involved.

For the Democrats, you have seen on their end of things they've been trying to push to include in the bill some sort of check on Elon Musk and DOGE's power, some guardrails around him. That's kind of a non- starter to some extent for Republicans.

And you have to raise questions as to whether Trump would even sign off on that. But do Democrats go as far as they can on the mat on this and potentially force the government shutdown? Because we know at the end of the day on Capitol Hill, it's very unlikely that the Republicans, given their numbers and their margins, can really do this alone. They need Democratic votes to overcome the filibuster in the Senate.

And on the House side, there are historically some Republicans that will not vote for sort of short term stopgap funding bills. And so they're going to need Democratic supports. And so this does create the opportunity for an impasse. And the blame game is already starting to get underway beforehand, which is never a good sign.

[06:25:00]

BLACKWELL: Yes. And Democrats haven't reached consensus on their strategy yet. Still talking that through. Let's talk about this Oval Office meeting yesterday. I remember there were times during the first Trump term when Vice President Pence would try to disappear into the upholstery. Right. He was so silent and so still that it seemed intentional that he didn't want to get involved. That is not the Vance way, obviously. What did we learn yesterday about the approach to the role that Vance takes and what the President allows or delegates to Vice President Vance?

FREY: Right. I mean, some of this was kind of Vance's really first big push in the kind of media space because, I mean, we obviously did this speech at the Munich Security Conference where he raised some eyebrows about some of his comments about political parties in Germany, to say the least.

But this was kind of his first chance to engage in a way that really has grabbed headlines. And keep in mind, he's essentially been playing second fiddle to Elon Musk in terms of dominating the headlines over the past few months. And so this was sort of his coming out party in that sense.

And clearly he sort of played the role. And this has led to all sorts of questions as to whether or not this was coordinated or an improvised moment of basically being Trump's enforcer and arguably kind of helping starts the real squabble that we saw there in the Oval Office in those last few minutes.

I will stress, though, when it comes to Vance in terms of his ideology on Ukraine, this isn't all that surprising that he would be leaning in trying to be the President's defender, because he has previously, going back to 2022, he was quoted as saying, I believe on Steve Bannon's podcast or something to that effect, that I don't really care what happens in Ukraine. So he already had disillusionment, unlike some of his fellow Republicans, about Ukraine, long before entering the White House.

BLACKWELL: Let's talk about your reporting. The President is taking what some are calling a revenge tour of New York City. Far more interest in the issues there than he was in his first term. What are you learning?

FREY: Yes, I mean, look, obviously Trump is a man of New York City. He was born and raised there. But he also has this sort of odd friction with the city because one people there politically don't really accept him. He was born in one of the outer boroughs and always wanted to be accepted in Manhattan as a real estate broker, but even the real estate circles didn't really accept him historically.

And then add on top of that, this was the town that slapped him with various felony accounts when the jury weighed in and found him guilty. And so some observers are arguing that he's basically on a revenge tour and he's been hyper involved in New York in the last few weeks, far more some would argue, than he was during his first term in office, including, among other things, obviously, shutting down congestion pricing, which is this key initiative that lawmakers are pursuing to try to reduce traffic in lower Manhattan and also raise money for the subway system and also pulling back funding to help the city deal with the migrant crisis.

On top of that, of course, the DOJ has been getting involved heavily in New York both with suing the city and suing the state over immigration policies. And then, oh yes, basically getting involved in the mayor's corruption case and trying to strip away the charges away from him while arguably trying to basically force the mayor to do their will when it comes to immigration.

This is a hyper involvement and it's created the impression amongst, I should say some Democrats that Trump is basically singling in on New York because of his frustration there. Republicans, I should say, push back and say Biden set up a lot of issues in New York and he is fulfilling his campaign promises by stepping in this capacity.

BLACKWELL: Five and a half weeks in and we already have four or five bullet points on that New York list. Kevin Frey with Spectrum News, thanks so much for being with us.

Jake Tapper is back with his CNN original series United States of Scandal with deep dives into infamous tales of political corruption and corporate misdeeds and celebrity con artist. The new season premieres Sunday, March 9th at 9:00 on CNN.

So police have released new details in the deaths of actor Gene Hackman and his wife, what they found during a search of the couple's home, and what a review of Hackman's pacemaker is revealing about his death.

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[06:30:00]

BLACKWELL: Iowa is now the first state to remove gender identity protections from its civil rights code. The governor signed the law yesterday, defining male and female based on birth anatomy and rejecting gender transition. The supporters say it protects single sex spaces, but critics warn it could lead to discrimination.

The law becomes effective July 1st. Today, Interstate 40 between Tennessee and North Carolina will reopen five months after Hurricane Helene shut it down. For now, it will be one-lane traffic with both ways, speed limit 35 miles per hour, permanent repairs are expected to be completed in 2 to 3 years.

Microsoft is pulling the plug on Skype. The former giant of internet calls and video chats, the company says that users can switch to Microsoft teams for free on any supported device using their Skype login. Microsoft bought Skype for $8.5 billion, that was in 2011, but has struggled to keep up with competitors like Zoom and FaceTime and WhatsApp.

[06:35:00]

The platform will go offline May 5th. We're learning more about the deaths of Oscar-winning actor Gene Hackman and his wife. Now, police have revealed details from Hackman's pacemaker that could give authorities a better idea of when he died. But the cause of death still being investigated. CNN's Josh Campbell is following the story.

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JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Significant new details in the death of Hollywood icon Gene Hackman and his 65-year- old wife Betsy Arakawa, after their bodies were discovered inside their New Mexico home. Investigators now say it is very likely the 95- year-old actor died over a week before he was found.

ADAN MENDOZA, SHERIFF, SANTA FE COUNTY: An initial interrogation was conducted of Mr. Hackman's pacemaker. This revealed that his last event was recorded on February 17th, 2025.

CAMPBELL: The Santa Fe sheriff says tests have also confirmed that Hackman and Arakawa both tested negative for carbon monoxide. There's also new information released about several items seized by police from Hackman's home.

Two green-colored cellular devices, three medicines, a thyroid medication, a medication used to treat high blood pressure or chest pain and Tylenol. Also records from MyQuest; a medical diagnostic service and a 2025 planner. MENDOZA: We'll be analyzing cellphone data, phone calls, text

messages, events, photos in the -- in the cell phone to try to piece a timeline together and then hopefully make a determination what may have happened to both the individuals.

CAMPBELL: Their bodies were discovered Wednesday inside their Santa Fe, New Mexico home. Deputies consider the circumstances suspicious enough to warrant a thorough investigation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think I'm pretty confident that there is no foul play, just based on the lack of evidence of foul play. But we of course, we're not ruling that out.

CAMPBELL: Deputies found them during a welfare check request from two maintenance workers who told police they had not been in contact with the homeowners for about two weeks. Investigators say the 95-year-old actor was found on the ground in a mud room, Arakawa was found on the ground inside a bathroom next to an open prescription pill bottle with pills scattered around.

A German Shepherd dog was also found dead near her body inside a crate. Officials say a toxicology report could take some time.

MENDOZA: It could be a month or three months or longer in my experience.

CAMPBELL (on camera): And in addition to waiting on toxicology reports, investigators are also waiting to get into the cellphones they seized at Gene Hackman's home. They say that could contain critical information to help them build this timeline about when the couple actually died. They say they may have to reach out to other agencies in order to try to get into those devices. Josh Campbell, CNN, Albuquerque, New Mexico.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: All right, Josh, thank you. Measles cases continue to grow. The majority of them are centered around that outbreak in west Texas. But we're seeing cases in other parts of the country. We've got a doctor with me next to tell you what you need to know.

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[06:40:00]

BLACKWELL: The number of measles cases in the U.S. is on the rise again. The CDC says that as of Thursday, 164 measles cases were reported, 153 of those are associated with an outbreak. There have been three outbreaks reported so far this year, the largest of those is happening in Texas.

The state's Department of Health reports 146 cases in the South Plains region. A child that died there is the first death from measles in the country this year. Authorities say that child was not vaccinated, and the CDC says that 95 percent of the measles patients are not vaccinated or their status is unknown. Joining me now to discuss is Dr. Harry Heiman; clinical Professor with

the Department of Health Policy at Georgia State University. I'm going to call an audible because we talked before the break where I was going to start. But let's start with measles now. For the parents who are watching this, and they hear that there may be a case in their state. How concerned should they be with just their state's name being on this list of where there is a reported case?

HARRY HEIMAN, CLINICAL PROFESSOR, DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH POLICY, GEORGIA STATE UNIVERSITY: Well, just to kind of set the stage a little bit, let's be clear, vaccines are the most powerful, the most effective and the safest public health tool --

BLACKWELL: Yes --

HEIMAN: That we have to protect children. OK, so parents whose children are immunized --

BLACKWELL: They're fine --

HEIMAN: Have nothing to worry about.

BLACKWELL: OK.

HEIMAN: However, we don't give the measles vaccine until age one. So, if you're a parent who's doing all the right things, but you have a child under age one, you might need to be more cautious depending on where you live. And Texas, as you know, is a large state.

BLACKWELL: Let's talk about that caution because if you drop your kid off, who is you know, 11 months, ten months at daycare, what are the questions? What are the concerns? What should you be looking for in this moment?

HEIMAN: Well, I think that's another critical thing that parents need to know. You know, we talk a lot in this country about personal responsibility. And parents like to have the choice about what they do in terms of their children's health. But the reality is, we vaccinate our children not just to keep them safe, but to keep your children safe, keep your neighbor's children safe, keep the other children at school safe.

[06:45:00]

So, it's entirely appropriate to ask schools and ask daycare facilities what the vaccination status is of other children, and that should be publicly available. In Texas, by the way, they publish a report every year showing vaccination rates in each school in the -- in the state, and those rates range from 100 percent to below 50 percent. I wouldn't send my child to a school with a vaccination rate below 50 percent.

BLACKWELL: Another concern this year, and this year especially is the flu. The CDC says that they believe that the U.S. may be past its peak, but that peak was high. So, I mean, even past peak, it's still circulating at a high level. HEIMAN: Sure, well --

BLACKWELL: Yes --

HEIMAN: We're still very much into flu season. And again, there, too, we have a powerful tool for children and adults to protect themselves against flu, and that's the flu vaccine. It's never a 100 percent perfect, but it's very effective at reducing your risk for infection and especially for hospitalization or potential death, even though significant numbers of people die from the flu every year.

But there's a -- there's a broader issue here. And the broader issue is that we have critical systems that are in place to ensure that people in the U.S. and across the globe get the best vaccines available for what's circulating right now. So, for example, we have an advisory committee at CDC that oversees existing vaccines and is involved in approval of new vaccines.

And we saw that with rotavirus vaccine that protects against a severe GI problem in kids going back maybe five years. And we saw that with COVID.

BLACKWELL: Yes --

HEIMAN: We also have an FDA committee that does the same thing. We also have a complex system with the World Health Organization, where we work with centers across the world to assess what the flu strains are that are most active, so, we can decide what needs to be put in our flu vaccine for next fall. All of those systems, all of those systems are under threat.

BLACKWELL: Yes --

HEIMAN: All of those systems are under attack right now.

BLACKWELL: And several of those meetings have been disrupted.

HEIMAN: Well, that's why --

BLACKWELL: Yes --

HEIMAN: That's exactly what I'm talking about. We rely on expertise from public health experts, clinicians, parents and others to inform our understanding of vaccines and to make recommendations to our public health agencies like the CDC and the FDA. So, it's very disheartening and very concerning to me as a public health expert that we've now canceled one meeting or postponed it indefinitely and canceled another on top of the fact that we have essentially disengaged from our critical global health partner, the W.H.O.

BLACKWELL: Yes, and also, we got from the HHS yesterday that they have ended the requirement of a period of public comment and notice for decisions regarding management, personnel, public property, loans, grants, benefits, contracts, major changes coming under the new Secretary, Robert F. Kennedy Jr. Dr. Harry Heiman, thank you so much for being with me. Still to come,

the Federal Reserve preferred inflation gauge cooled as expected last month. But the good news came with a potential red flag for the U.S. economy. We'll tell you what that is.

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[06:50:00]

BLACKWELL: Good news and bad news for the economy in the latest inflation numbers. First, the good news. Inflation did cool slightly in January. The bad news is the key measures like consumer spending dropped while jobless claims spiked. Here's CNN's Matt Egan. Matt, good morning to you.

MATT EGAN, CNN REPORTER: Good morning Victor. There are growing signs that the U.S. economy is stumbling a bit at the start of this year. We've seen layoffs increase, consumer confidence has really crumbled and investors on Wall Street are growing worried about an economic slowdown. Now, we've learned that consumer spending unexpectedly dropped in January by 0.2 percent, that is a significant pullback from the splurge in spending that we saw in December.

If you adjust for inflation, spending was down a bit more. It's the biggest monthly drop for consumer-spending since early 2021. And Americans cut back on spending in a number of different areas, including cars, car parts, furniture, clothes, footwear and on food and beverage. Now, I should note that this is just one month.

And it's not unusual to see a bit of a hangover in January, especially as people open up their credit card bills from their holiday shopping. Also January was extremely cold, so that could be a factor as well. I do want to note there were some good news on the cost of living in yesterday's report. The Federal Reserve's go-to inflation metric showed that prices eased in January.

This is a good sign. It's another step in the right direction towards the Fed's 2 percent goal. This is relief because we know the cost of living remains such a big problem, and because the Federal Reserve has said they need to see more progress on inflation before they can start cutting interest rates.

[06:55:00]

But I've got to say, the big focus right now is on this soft patch in the economy. The Atlanta Federal Reserve yesterday slashed its closely-watched GDP forecast. It's now calling for the U.S. economy to shift into reverse in the first quarter. We haven't seen a contraction in GDP in three years. Now, it's way too soon to say that that's going to happen.

This economy again and again has proven that it is very resilient. Still consumer-spending, I mean, that is the engine of this economy. And if people start to really pull back on spending, well, that's where a growth scare can turn into something much more serious. Back to you, Victor. BLACKWELL: All right, Matt, thank you. New York firefighters had to

rescue two window washers. They suddenly became trapped 78 feet off the ground on a swinging scaffold. I would be hysterical. The other firefighter had to punch me in the face or something to knock me out if this was happening.

I would be unbearable. Look at this. They're just floating and swinging through the air next to this skyscraper. They're still there. Firefighters say that the window washers were not secured to safety lines when they arrived. They used ropes to get them safely back inside the building. The fire chief says that both window washers are in stable condition. Absolutely not.

All right, coming up, Secretary of State Marco Rubio is demanding an apology from Ukrainian President Zelenskyy after that Oval Office showdown with President Trump. We're live in Kyiv and Moscow as reaction comes in from around the world. That's next.

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Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance both turned on the embattled wartime leader during a remarkably tense exchange in the Oval Office, accusing Zelenskyy of failing to express sufficient gratitude for U.S. involvement and overplaying what they said was a weak diplomatic hand. Pope Francis has faced a major setback in his recovery from double pneumonia after inhaling vomit during a severe coughing fit. Federal employees are asked again to report their activities at work, now on a weekly basis. The Trump administration has its government-shrinking sights set on the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, where around 800 employees have been tapped for termination, according to two sources close to the agency.>