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Pope Makes First Public Appearance Since Being Hospitalized; Americans Turn Anger At Trump And Musk On Democrats; Testing The Truce: Deadly Israeli Airstrikes Hit Hezbollah; Israel Warns It Plans To Intensify Pressure In Gaza; Severe Storms Threaten 17 Million Across The Southeast. Lawmakers Head Back to Capitol Hill; DoorDash's Eat Now, Pay Later. Aired 7-8a ET

Aired March 23, 2025 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:00:23]

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN HOST: For the hour, glad to be with you. Welcome to CNN This Morning, Sunday, March 23rd. I'm Victor Blackwell.

Here's what's happening this morning. Any minute now, Pope Francis, he's going to make his first public appearance since being hospitalized more than a month ago. He's going to step out onto the hospital balcony before he's discharged and then head back to the Vatican.

We've got our reporters and live cameras up. We'll bring it to you as soon as it happens.

Lawmakers are going to head back to Capitol Hill this week after receiving an earful from voters during the recent town halls across the country. Question now is what they will do after what they heard.

More than 20 million people from Texas to Tennessee facing the threat of severe storms for a second weekend in a row. High winds, hail, tornadoes, all possible. So we'll talk about that with Allison Chinchar.

Plus, you make your payments on your house, on your car. And now, on your door dash, are you going to finance a burrito? We'll explain, coming up.

All right, as I said, any moment now, we expect to see Pope Francis appear for the first time in public since being hospitalized for double pneumonia. The Pope will wave from his hospital balcony in Rome before being discharged.

And you can see crowds of well-wishers, devoted Catholics are building a few miles away in Vatican City. They're hoping to catch a glimpse of the Pope as he returns home. CNN Senior International Correspondent Ben Wedeman is outside of the hospital. So walk us through what's going to happen today. And do we know anything about timing?

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we heard from the Vatican press office just a few minutes ago that as soon as the text of the Angelus prayers, which are read out on Sunday, is released, that the Pope will appear at the window here at the Vatican.

Now, on the second floor, I don't know if you can see it, there's an open window there where we're expecting Pope Francis to appear. And there he is. You can see him in white.

(APPLAUSE)

WEDEMAN: So there, Victor, the crowd is applauding. He's waving. He's been rolled out on his wheelchair there. And, yes, this is the first time we are seeing him. First time we are seeing him in more than 38 days. 38 days he's been here in Rome's Gemelli Hospital suffering from double pneumonia.

Yesterday evening, Victor, the doctors who lead his medical team came out in front of the hospital here and announced that he would be getting out. Apparently, he's been urging them to allow him to leave the hospital, they said, for the last few days. And so it appears that that's going ahead.

So yes, here you see it, live on CNN, Pope Francis. Now, we don't have -- we're a bit far, so I can't see his condition, but certainly what we heard from the doctors is that he has lost weight during his 38 days in hospital.

Now he appears to be speaking. So I'm going to be quiet here.

He did put out an audio message two and a half weeks ago. His voice was very weak at the time. Here you can hear people were chanting Francesco, applauding.

If he said anything, I didn't hear it. Now it appears he's being wheeled back inside that room on the second floor of Rome's Gemelli Hospital.

So there you have it, Kim -- all right, Victor?

BLACKWELL: Yes. Ben --

WEDEMAN: For the first time he's appeared in public.

BLACKWELL: We also, Ben, were unable to hear what the Pope said, but giving through a limited range of motion there, understandable after the last 38 days, a thumbs up to well-wishers and the crowd there outside of Gemelli Hospital waving. And it was not expected, at least from anything I heard, Ben, that we would hear from the Pope.

It was just supposed to be a wave to everyone waiting outside. So that was a surprise. And so what happens next, according to the Vatican? WEDEMAN: Well, he will be returning to his apartment in the Casa Santa Marta in Vatican City, his apartment number 201 on the second floor of that residence. It's a small place, just 970 square feet. And there he will be stationary for two months of convalescence, rest, drug therapy and physiotherapy to bring him back to shape.

[07:05:28]

Now, of course, the question is, after that period, will he be able to resume his normal duties? This is a Pope who likes to be in touch with the faithful, likes to mix with people, likes to speak with people. But obviously, after 38 days in hospital with double pneumonia, after two months of convalescence, it's questionable how active he will able -- be able to be.

I mean, for instance, prior to going into hospital, he had expressed the hope that he would be able to travel to Turkey at the end of May for a visit there. The question is, will he be able to do it under these conditions? Very difficult to say, keeping in mind he's 88 years old, he's had double pneumonia, he's had a history of health issues over the last few years.

But this is a Pope, clearly, who's very stubborn, who was frustrated with his physical shortcomings. And as we heard from his doctors yesterday, he's been urging them of late to let him out of the hospital so he could resume his normal duties, which he's had to curtail significantly over these weeks of hospitalization. Victor?

BLACKWELL: Yes. And that scheduled trip to Turkey right at the edge of the two months of convalescence that the chief doctor at Gemelli says that the Pope needs.

Ben Wedeman for us there, right outside of the hospital where the timing worked out perfectly. You turned around, pointed to the balcony, and there was the pontiff himself.

Ben, thank you for the live report.

We have Father Edward Beck, Roman Catholic priest, joining us now. So, Father, let's start with just the good news and your reaction to it. 88 years old, several weeks in a hospital with double pneumonia, and here he is now being discharged after a thumbs up and wave to the people outside of the hospital.

FATHER EDWARD BECK, ROMAN CATHOLIC PRIEST Yes, it's a pretty great feeling, Victor. It's like when you haven't seen a grandfather or a great grandfather for a long time, and you've heard they're sick and maybe you've talked on a phone. But to actually see him there and to see him smiling and giving a thumbs up, I mean, it's really heartening and encouraging, although obviously he was struggling.

And after that long of a period in hospital, you can understand it. But just to see him after all the conspiracy theories you've been hearing that he's actually dead, and he's worse off than you think, I mean, obviously, he's been sick, but he's there. He seems conscious and aware and knew the crowds wanted to greet them. And I just think it's really heartening and encouraging feeling to see that.

BLACKWELL: Yes. There were questions about whether Pope Francis would stay on in the role, stay in as pope. Of course, that came after his predecessor, Pope Benedict XVI, resigned in 2013, first pope to do so in 600 years or so. Do you think that was ever a credible possibility for this pope that he would resign?

BECK: I do Victor. He said when he became Pope that if he became incapacitated, or could not function as his duties demanded, that he would in fact follow in Benedict's lead and resign. So the possibility is certainly there. He has signed the documents saying that if he's incapacitated, he wants to resign.

And he thinks that it's not a bad precedent that when someone can't do their job, that they make way for someone who can. So, yes.

Now, having said that, he's just announced a three-year plan for the Catholic Church, which seems to indicate that he's going to be sticking around for a while. And he wants people to know that he's engaged.

There are some interesting topics that he wants discussed and maybe decided upon during this three-year period. So I don't know, I wouldn't count him out yet. But I also wouldn't be surprised if he feels in his convalescence that he can't do what he needs to do, then he would in fact resign.

BLACKWELL: Yes. Many of us remember Pope John Paul II stayed in -- as Pope until his death. And at the end there, some of his speeches were -- we couldn't even discern what he was saying or decipher some of the words.

[07:10:03]

So this two months of convalescence and rest and staying away from large crowds comes at the busiest season for the church. You've got Palm Sunday coming, you've got Easter coming, Urbi et Orbi, this address to the city and to the world. So what does this likely look like with a pope who is supposed to be isolated and recovering?

BECK: Well, again, Victor, I think it's going to depend on how he does. I mean, if you'll recall for Holy Week in previous years, he kind of broke tradition by leaving the Vatican to wash the feet of prisoners and Muslim prisoners, in fact, and many different religions.

And he really widened the whole understanding that the church needs to get out of itself. And this is a Pope who wanted to do that. And Holy Week, of course, is the most sacred time in the whole Christian calendar.

So the Pope would want to participate. However, again, we know that he's confined to a wheelchair. We know right now he has difficulty speaking, obviously even difficulty breathing. He was coughing a bit there as we saw at the window.

So, obviously, we have to see he may not be able to participate. I think we'll see him release prayers during that period and let us know that he's very much with us if he cannot be a participant or leader in those ceremonies.

But again, I think we're going to have to see what the next few weeks brings and how this convalescence goes. I don't think we want to push him too hard to have to appear to do services. Holy Week and Easter is grueling for anyone, never mind an 88-year-old man who's just come out of hospital.

BLACKWELL: Yes, stable clinical condition, the report from Gemelli Hospital. But the good news, before we look too far down the road, is that the Pope came out, waved, gave the thumbs up, and he's being discharged from the hospital, still with some recovery ahead.

Father Edward Beck, good to see you on a Sunday morning. Thank you.

BECK: You too, Victor. Thanks so much.

BLACKWELL: All right. Voters who were fed up with President Trump and Elon Musk have a blunt message for the Democrats they sent to Washington -- "Try actually fighting". That's a quote from one of the town halls.

Republicans have faced public backlash at town halls for weeks, and now Democrats are also facing that fury.

CNN's Eva McKend has the latest for us. Eva, good morning to you.

EVA MCKEND, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning to you, Victor. While President Trump is governing as though he won a mandate in the last election, it's important to remember 75 million Americans did not sign up for the type of sweeping changes that we are seeing from this administration.

And so that's why Democratic voters are leaning on their elected leadership to make it as difficult as possible for President Trump to advance his agenda. And there are specific ways that Democrats can do that where they have not, like shutting down the government or even slowing down the process for Trump to confirm his nominees.

What we hear now in the wake of this anger from these voters are some elected Democrats focusing on a class-focused message that doesn't fall so neatly along partisan lines. Take a listen to Senator Jon Ossoff in Georgia at an event billed as a rally for the republic.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

SEN. JON OSSOFF (D), GEORGIA: The corruption is why you pay a fortune for prescriptions.

ALL: Yes.

OSSOFF: The corruption is why your insurance claim keeps getting denied.

ALL: Yes. OSSOFF: The corruption is why hedge funds get to buy up all the houses in your neighborhood and Congress doesn't do anything about it.

ALL: Yes.

(APPLAUSE)

OSSOFF: See, this is why so many have lost faith in our system. Because the system really is rigged.

ALL: Yes.

OSSOFF: But Trump's not un-rigging it. He's re-rigging it for himself.

(END VIDEOCLIP)

MCKEND: And I was with Senator Bernie Sanders earlier this week at a stop in Las Vegas, his events for his fighting oligarchy tour drawing huge crowds. And so this seems to be where the energy is on the left right now. But time will tell if they can recapture the working class voters Democrats lost in the last election. And if they can expand their coalition, not just preach to the converted. Victor?

BLACKWELL: All right, Eva, thanks so much.

Still to come, Hamas says that one of its political leaders has been killed by an Israeli airstrike. The latest on the escalating tensions in the Middle East, that's next.

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[07:19:27]

BLACKWELL: Hamas says an Israeli airstrike in Gaza has killed one of its leaders. That strike came after Israel said it intercepted a missile launch from Yemen. This is the fifth to target Israel since the collapse of the Gaza ceasefire.

Israel also carried out airstrikes across Lebanon, targeting suspected Hezbollah sites. Israel says it's retaliating over intercepted projectiles fired from Lebanon. Hezbollah denies any involvement.

CNN's Sebastian Shukla joins us now live. So what details have you learned?

[07:20:01]

SEBASTIAN SHUKLA, CNN FIELD PRODUCER: Yes, Victor. First, I want to start by acknowledging a really grim statistic that's just been announced by the Palestinian health ministry, which is that 50,000 Palestinians have now been killed, according to their figures, since the start of the war in Gaza, which followed in the wake of those horrific October 7th attacks.

And that number shows no sign of, well, a showing signs of increasing even further, especially now that Israeli ground forces have continued or restarted their operations in the Gaza Strip as they look to try to secure the release of those remaining Israeli hostages, both those both dead and alive, and look to pressure Hamas to come to some sort of agreement and a ceasefire, which has collapsed since Tuesday and though had held since that early part of January.

And we've seen, Victor, as you mentioned, the other shaky truces in the region have their most serious foundations shaken in the last few days. Yesterday morning, we saw Israel's northern neighbor, Lebanon, fire a rocket from southern Lebanon into the northern communities there in Israel.

We -- it's unclear at the moment who exactly is behind it. Hezbollah, who have been the scourge of Israel for some time and who Hezbollah themselves would like to see the destruction of Israel in its totality, has said that it wasn't them and that it was a pretext already laid by the Israeli Armed Forces for further airstrikes into Lebanon.

And back in Gaza, we also have learned yesterday that the IDF have carried out an airstrike on -- in Khan Yunis, where it's now taken out a Hamas political leader known as Salah al-Bardaweel. So that shows that the Israeli incursion into Gaza and its operations in that area are going to be increasing in the coming days.

And with all of that, there is now the added context of the Houthi rockets that are being targeted at Israeli military installations and assets, as well as American. The Houthi rebels have said in the last week that they also targeted a U.S. warship, the USS Harry Truman, in the region.

So, Victor, what we're seeing is potentially those shaky ceasefires unraveling and therefore a need for dialogue to come again. Victor?

BLACKWELL: Increasingly tense time in that region. And you start with that sad marker. Fifty thousand now killed in Gaza.

Sebastian, thank you for the report.

Another round of potentially deadly storms moving through the southeast.

Now coming up, I'll speak with an Arkansas couple who lost their home in this most recent round of storms.

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[07:27:13]

BLACKWELL: Seventeen million people facing the threat of severe storms today. Hail and damaging winds and tornadoes are all possible.

CNN's Allison Chinchar with us now. Another weekend, another threat.

ALLISON CHINCHAR, CNN METEOROLOGIST: Right. And I think that's the key thing. Coming off of last week when we had the big severe weather outbreak, people, you know, tensions are a little high, especially because there are going to be some spots that got hit last weekend that have the potential for more severe weather today.

So let's take a look at the map so we can understand where we're talking about. The highlighted area here in red, this is what we're talking about. This is the best area for the severe storms as we go through the day today.

We've already had some severe -- strong to severe thunderstorms fire up across portions of Missouri and now spreading into Illinois. We've had several severe thunderstorm warnings ongoing this morning. But as we head into the latter half of the day, especially this evening and into the overnight, this is going to be the area we're concerned about.

We're talking portions of Tennessee, Mississippi, Arkansas, Louisiana and even portions of eastern Texas. There's the potential for tornadoes, damaging winds around 60, 70 miles per hour and even some large hail.

Here's a look at where we had the severe weather last week. All of these dots represent either severe thunderstorm warnings. The orange or the pink purple color was a tornado warning from the severe weather outbreak last week. This red area is where we anticipate the severe weather for today and tonight. The green area along the Gulf Coast, that's going to be for tomorrow.

Now, here's a look at the timing. Again, you've already got the ongoing storms this morning, but this afternoon that sun comes out, it's going to heat things up. Then you start to see a lot of those showers and thunderstorms ramp up in the southeast. They will continue through the overnight hours and making for kind of a messy start to the day tomorrow for cities like Atlanta and Charlotte.

BLACKWELL: All right, we'll be on the lookout.

Allison, thank you.

For a family in Arkansas, the severe weather has been a case of deja vu. Nearly a year ago, a tornado damaged their home. And then last weekend, another tornado destroyed it as they took shelter in the bathroom with a daughter and their two dogs.

Bruce and Misty Drope are with us this morning. Thank you for being with me. I am sorry that this has happened to you again.

Misty, let me start with you. And after having repaired the home from the damage last spring, what went through your mind when you saw the forecast for last weekend?

MISTY DROPE, FAMILY HOME DESTROYED IN TORNADO OUTBREAK: I was just very anxious on Friday. I was traveling to a meeting in another town for work and I just kind of felt anxious. That's not typically my personality.

I think I messaged a friend and my mom and sister and just said, you know, feeling very anxious today. Pray for me. I'm just high anxiety today. These storms are kind of unnerving. BLACKWELL: Bruce, when on Friday night did you know that this was potentially going to be bad?

BRUCE DROPE, FAMILY HOME DESTROYED IN TORNADO OUTBREAK: It had built up all day. The atmosphere was very unstable. You could just almost feel it. If you live here, you know what I mean by that. But it just progressed as the day got on, the sun was shining, produced more heat, and is -- the further the day went, the worse it got, according, you know, to what they were speaking of that were -- was coming our way.

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: And, Bruce, describe to me what you were feeling when you were in that bathroom with your wife and your daughter and the dogs?

B. DROPE: Honestly, I was sitting there thinking, statistically, this is not going to hit us. There's no way it's going to hit a mile north, a mile south, that this is not possible. And once I turned on my security cameras and was watching the hail hit the side of the house and driveway, you could see just like an airiness in the air, so to speak, when it was lightening. Just can't describe the picture really, but it got deathly steel and that's when we both looked at each other and said, this is not good. And within seconds it was upon us?

BLACKWELL: We're looking at some video across Arkansas from this storm, EF-2 was the rating of that tornado, according to the National Weather Service. Winds at 125 miles per hour. How's the rest of the neighborhood look, Misty.

MISTY DROPE, FAMILY HOME DESTROYED IN TORNADO OUTBREAK: Just like us, in spots. It ranges from mild to severe. We had 160 homes affected in our county from this particular storm.

BLACKWELL: And so, as I read more the notes on your family and your story, tell everyone what happened in 2006 when you lived a few miles away in Marmaduke.

B. DROPE: In 2006, our children were small and we -- I was actually a sheriff's deputy still at that time. And I was actually -- I could see the tornado, which was an EF-5, and I was trying to basically outrun it to get home and get them out of our residence, which Misty had got them into a the bathroom and took cover in the bathtub and had them all covered up.

I made it within staying distance of our home and I was struck on the top of my sheriff's vehicle by part of a roof and I had to stop because I couldn't go any further.

BLACKWELL: Last question here, do you plan to rebuild where you are?

M. DROPE: We're still trying to decide each day what we think or how we feel. You know, we still haven't even met with insurance. They're coming next week. We're trying not to decide all of that this quickly because emotions are still high. We do have everything we could salvage out of the home and we go every day. And it seems like more has collapsed and more has broken off, and that's hard to watch. But, you know, we're undecided. We're thinking of all of our options. BLACKWELL: Well, I'm glad you are physically OK, and sorry that you've been impacted, as you've told us, now three times by tornadoes coming through that part of Northeastern Arkansas. Bruce and Misty Drope, thank you for your time and, of course, we wish you well.

B. DROPE: Thanks.

M. DROPE: Thank you.

BLACKWELL: All right. So, here's an option, eat now, pay later, and not just a credit card at a restaurant. DoorDash has announced a partnership with finance company Klarna. Coming up, is this a deal that's the sign of the times?

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[07:35:00]

BLACKWELL: Lawmakers are heading back to work this week after a grueling series of town halls back in their districts. Let's talk about that much more with former political reporter for the Atlanta Journal Constitution, Bill Nigut, Judge Glenda Hatchett, and Dr. Jayne Morgan back with us this hour. Good to have all of you in.

Bill, let me start with you. Democrats at these town halls want their elected officials to do something, get dirty. What do they want them to do in the minority?

BILL NIGUT, FORMER POLITICAL REPORTER, ATLANTA JOURNAL-CONSTITUTION, WABE: Well, they certainly what they don't want them to continue doing is standing on the grass outside of the capitol building, holding news conferences in which they simply rail against Republicans. Those are kind of worthless efforts on the part of Democrats.

I think what they're -- I don't think voters quite know what they want Democrats to do either because we know the administration has just basically consumed all the oxygen in the air. But I think if you watch what Bernie Sanders and AOC are doing in their town meetings out there where they're attracting thousands of people, they're talking in very concrete terms saying, we've got to fix the economy. That's the most important issue of the day to day. They're not talking about is democracy in danger or not. It might be, but that's just not where they're headed. They want it -- they want their voters to start talking about the real -- the voters -- what the politicians start talking about, the real everyday issues that face them.

JAYNE MORGAN, CARDIOLOGIST AND VP OF MEDICAL AFFAIRS, "HELLO HEART": And I think when we talk about the physiologic responses, right, we talk about flight or fight, but there are two others. There's the fawning and there's the freezing.

[07:40:00]

And so, the fawning is when you sort of capitulate and try to appease the threat. And then, the freezing is when you're sort of overwhelmed by all of the stressors coming at once and you sort of do nothing. And I think what the Democrats are complaining about is that they're seeing a little bit more freezing and they really want to see that fight. But there really are, it's fight, flight, fawn, freeze, and it appears that the Democrats are overwhelmed --

NIGUT: Yes. Well, a lot of Democratic voters were angry at Chuck Schumer for deciding to go along with vote for the continuing resolution.

DR. MORGAN: There's the fawning, the capitulate. That's right.

NIGUT: He was in a very -- Democrats were in a terrible spot with that, but a lot of people said, go ahead and risk it. Yes, if you shut down the government, you may pay a price, but on the other hand, it's an opportunity to strike back at the administration.

JUDGE GLENDA HATCHETT, HOST, "THE VERDICT" AND OF COUNSEL, STEWART MILLER SIMMONS LAW FIRM: Yes. People are saying they need to get some guts and they need to get some backbone. They need to see something. And I think that people are feeling let down, like they're being abandoned by Democrats and not being forceful enough. And I think that people are still reeling from the disarray leading up to November. That just trying to figure out what to do, who's the candidate, what's the convention going to look like?

And I think you're seeing an aftermath of that now, Victor, are people like, what in the world and will we ever get out of this turmoil?

BLACKWELL: Yes. Something that is really worrying to a lot of people, and this is not just limited to one party or the other, is that the White House's reaction response to Judge Boasberg and his order as it relates to those flights of -- as the administration claims members of Tren de Aragua, Venezuelans who are in this country to El Salvador, the judge ordered to turn those planes around and he says he's going to get to the bottom of whether his order was defied or -- and who defied him.

But some of the rhetoric that's coming from the president calling for impeachment and the attorney general saying that this was overreach and there should be no judicial oversight of this use of the act.

HATCHETT: First of all, it goes back to when we were all growing up as kids in civics. The three branches of government. We're actually seeing this in action now. Do we have a democracy? Will there be checks and balances? What is happening?

The one -- one branch is controlled. The executive branch is saying, I'm not listening. And then, you have the judiciary, which is supposed to be a check and balance. And when you have one branch saying, I'm not going to obey that, but we are not going to do this, you cannot tell me what to do, that means that that is a prescription, in my opinion, for some very, very serious problems.

And I think this case, with this plane and the order, it's just symptomatic of what I think is a major problem. And until we are clear that there have to be checks and balances and that there can be some repercussions for not following these orders, I think we're down a very, very difficult road here in this country.

NIGUT: You know, it's interesting you talk about how we learned that in school, and we did. But young people, we've no longer teach civics and that kind of government in school. So, I wonder how much easier it is today for people who basically support Trump to disregard the three branches, the importance of the judiciary checking the executive, because it's never been built into what they learned to grow --

HATCHETT: I hadn't thought about that, Bill. I hadn't thought about it from that angle.

DR. MORGAN: Yes, those are --

HATCHETT: But we are -- if this country believes in democracy, if we say that we believe in democracy and that there cannot be one branch of government that controls everything, then we have got to step back and really rethink this.

Now, the real test is going to be what happens when these orders are defied and what will be the power to put it in check. That's going to be the real question here in this country.

BLACKWELL: And, Dr. Morgan, let me ask you about -- we got the latest numbers out of the number of measles cases across the country. Now, 350 -- 309 as part of this Texas outbreak. And we've seen the politicization of vaccination. Does it help, does it hurt for politicians to advocate for vaccines? I mean, we talked about this during the COVID, of course.

DR. MORGAN: Right. You know, what people have to remember is when we're talking about herd immunity, the person who is unvaccinated is protected because a person in front of them is vaccinated, the person behind them is vaccinated, the person to the right of them is vaccinated, the person to the left of them is vaccinated. So, they're in a cocoon of vaccinated people. And it's not that the unvaccinated have some special immune system or some special hierarchy to which they are responding and therefore are protected, no, they are protected because I got a vaccine and other people got a vaccine and they are surrounded.

[07:45:00]

It's when those numbers start to break down, when the person on the right of you also decides not to get the vaccine. And so, now, we start to have a breakdown. And measles is so highly contagious. There's something called the R knot value, meaning the R knot value of measles is 12 to 18. So, for every one person, we expect 12 to 18 people to be infected. That's incredibly, incredibly contagious. For instance, if we look at chickenpox, it's less than 10.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

DR. MORGAN: So, when you have something that is that contagious, the herd immunity needs to be at least 95 percent of the population. You have to be completely surrounded. And we have now, in the last couple years, dropped down to 92 percent, which is OK for chickenpox, it's not going to be OK for measles.

HATCHETT: And people have to remember, people can die. And we have seen deaths already in this country.

DR. MORGAN: Right.

HATCHETT: But this is not just a childhood disease that, you know, the kids will get over. I mean, the potential of people dying is real.

DR. MORGAN: It is, and we've seen one child and we've seen one adult, and the death rate of measles is generally one to 1,000. That is a very high, high death rate. And make no mistake, you could certainly get to herd immunity without vaccines. It merely requires that we expect a certain amount of death. We need to be able to tolerate death --

BLACKWELL: Wow.

DR. MORGAN: -- in order to get to herd immunity. That's what the vaccines do. We can get to herd immunity without the death rate.

BLACKWELL: The unfortunate part is that the Lubbock public health director says that the expectation is that this outbreak in Texas could last a year. And we're all already at 305 in the first quarter of 2025. Let's talk about something we've been teasing all day. Financing your DoorDash. And this is the thing is that we already put meals on credit cards, right? So, it's not that, you know, unusual to finance a meal, but it really, I think, puts some vulnerable people and college students into a space where they could go into debt very quickly by paying an extra, you know, whatever their percentage interest rate is on a burrito.

NIGUT: Yes, I was thinking about the fact that I get from the food delivery service that we use in our house, I probably get four messages from them a day about what I need to be ordering on any given day. I'm afraid that's only going to go up if they think that I now can charge that delivery.

But it's troubling. You just said it. I mean, debt in this country is so out of control already. And yes, you're right, people use credit cards where they go to a restaurant. But to add to that, as you say, younger people in dormitories and others who really don't have the income but want to get a meal into their house are staggering debt is only going to get a little bit worse.

DR. MORGAN: Right. And when you start to become overwhelmed, especially the younger you are and the less ability you have with coping mechanisms, then you start to disconnect. And we see this disconnection then of younger and younger and younger people. And when you were disconnected, what, especially with social media, you have the ability to be drawn in to these other rabbit holes. And we've seen that, especially with males with the disconnection or being disaffected.

And so, all of these things are connect the dots. We have to make certain that we understand how all the dots connect to impact our society as a whole.

BLACKWELL: All right. Dr. Jayne Morgan, judge Glenda Hatchett, Bill Nigut, fantastic conversation. Thanks for coming in.

NIGUT: Thanks, Victor.

DR. MORGAN: Thanks, Victor.

HATCHETT: Thank you, Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right. We'll take a quick break and we'll be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:50:00]

BLACKWELL: NCAA basketball tournament off and running with the men now battling to earn their team a spot in the Sweet 16. Women are now heading into their second round. Coy Wire with us now. So, what's standing out?

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Oh, man. Well, first of all, the Sweet 16 coming up. Got to love that. What's your favorite suite?

BLACKWELL: Reese's Cups.

WIRE: Reese's. I love it.

BLACKWELL: Yes.

WIRE: That's a good one. We're going to get that going here in the next couple of weeks because this tournament has been sweet. We just saw one of the 10 seed Arkansas pulling off one of the biggest upsets of the tournament so far. This was a frenetically paced game. Start to finish. Two seed. St. John's down most of the game, but they go on a rally. Ruben Prey bought him within two, but Arkansas is going to fend off the search. Billy Richmond III, a freshman, had a team high 16 points. St. John's star, RJ Luis, big East Player of the Year, held to just three for 17 shooting. Total team effort for Arkansas. John Calipari, just the second coach to take four different schools to the sweet sixteen.

In the women's turn. Number two, Yukon had three players score at least 20 points, including Azzi Fudd. Six steals for her in this game. Look at these two. They came back-to-back possessions. She missed almost all of last season with a torn ACL, but she is all the way back now. 27 points for Fudd on the night. Huskies demolished 15 seat Arkansas State, 103 to 34. They play South Dakota State next for a trip to the sweet 16.

President Donald Trump in attendance at the NCAA Wrestling Championships in Philadelphia, Pennsylvania. Witnessing history. Cael Sanderson's Penn State, arguably the most dominant dynasty in American sports. They clinched their fourth straight national title packed arena. They haven't lost a dual meet in five years.

BLACKWELL: What?

WIRE: That's like a half a decade, I think. Led by senior Carter Starocci, who in part, due to the COVID year, became the first wrestler in NCAA history to win five, count him five national titles. He finished the season undefeated after beating Northern Iowa's Parker Keckeisen in four to three in the finals. Maybe the biggest upset since Buster Douglas over Mike Tyson.

Minnesota's Gable Steveson in there in the black, undefeated this season, Olympic gold medalist, Victor, one of the best college wrestlers ever, but Oklahoma State's Wyatt Hendrickson takes him down in the last 20 seconds. He wins five to four to pull off the massive, unthinkable, upset, winning the heavyweight title, national Champion Wyatt Hendrickson and the College Wrestling Legend.

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Stevenson hadn't been taken down all year. Hendrickson is a U.S. Air Force supply officer and now has to finish his term with them now that this career of his is over.

One more thing you have to see before we go. Can't wait for Victor to see this. One of the biggest stars of March Madness in the men's side isn't even a player. 12 seed McNeese states Cinderella run is over, but people fell in love with their student manager, Amir Khan, a.k.a., Aura. He's like their hype man. Cheerleaders wear t-shirts featuring them. Popularity reportedly landing Amir at least 10 NIL deals with major brands earning into the six figures. I mean, how good is this?

BLACKWELL: Everybody needs a good hype man. Everybody needs a good hype man. Coy Wire, thank you very much.

WIRE: You got it.

BLACKWELL: Thank you for joining us this morning. Inside Politics with Manu Raju is up next.

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