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Journalist Releases Group Chat Chain; Bobby Ghosh is Interviewed about the Palestinian Protests; Sen. Peter Welch (D-VT) is Interviewed about Signal Group Chat. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired March 27, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:31:00]

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JIMMY FALLON, HOST, "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JIMMY FALLON": The reporter who broke the story published all these screenshots from the chat. Yes, the - the most humiliating part of the group chat is that some of the text messages were green. Who has an Android?

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AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: More questions and more than a few jokes as the Signal group chat scandal enters day four.

Good morning, everybody. I'm Audie Cornish. I want to thank you for joining me on CNN THIS MORNING.

It's half past the hour on the East Coast. Here's what's happening right now.

Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth is set to arrive in the Philippines. He denies sharing the classified information in that group chat, despite having posted the timetable for U.S. airstrikes hours before they occurred.

And all eyes on the opening bell this morning. Shares of the big three automakers fell in after hours trading following the announcement for the Trump administration that there will be a 25 percent tariff on all cars imported into the U.S.

And the heads of the NTSB and the FAA and the Army's aviation division will be on Capitol Hill this morning. They're going to testify about that deadly mid-air collision over the Potomac back in January. Today's hearing will focus on the NTSB's preliminary report.

And I want to come back now to our top story.

President Trump trying to distance himself from the widening Signal chat scandal.

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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I don't know that Signal works. I think Signal could be defective, to be honest with you.

REPORTER: Do you still believe nothing classified was shared?

TRUMP: Well, that's what I've heard. I don't know. I'm not sure. You'll have to ask the various people involved. I really don't know.

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CORNISH: Jeffrey Goldberg of "The Atlantic," the journalist who got invited to that group chat, says he felt compelled to release the entire chain because of the administration's claims.

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JEFFREY GOLDBERG, EDITOR IN CHIEF, "THE ATLANTIC": You know, at a certain point, the administration is saying that there's nothing classified or secret or sensitive in these. So, at a certain point, I just felt, you know, let - let our readers decide for themselves.

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CORNISH: I'm joined by CNN global affairs analyst Kim Dozier.

Kim, the White House is vowing to investigate. I wanted to have you on because in 2014 you actually were the subject of a White House scandal about Yemen strikes on a wedding that ended up killing - allegedly killing civilians.

What did you learn in the context of that reporting about the importance of military operations and what it means for something to be classified?

KIMBERLY DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, there was a wider investigation that targeted five different AP journalists, including me, about Yemen counterterrorism in general. And what I learned is that the Department of Justice can direct the FBI to look into how reporters got their stories. In our case that meant taking our phone records and talking to everyone we had talked to, as far as the FBI could determine, in a 40 day period. And as you can imagine, that had a pretty chilling effect on my sources across D.C., because some of them, including just Hill staffers who had set up on the record interviews for me, got threatened by the FBI, you know, turn over every communication you've ever had with Kim Dozier, or we will say you're obstructing this investigation.

CORNISH: So, that's so - like, what's so weird about this, because it's all there for you to see, right?

DOZIER: Yes.

CORNISH: He's posting screenshots. It shows when the reporter was added to the chat. And the details are there. What did you - what do you make of these details? Because the White House is trying to say there's nothing to see here.

DOZIER: Well, look, right now, Jeffrey Goldberg and Shane Harris, the two named writers of "The Atlantic" story, might face a leak investigation themselves.

But what is happening, I'm sure, to everyone on that chat, behind closed doors, is, they're looking at National Security Adviser Mike Waltz every communication. They're looking at everyone on that chat. Were they all using Signal on their government phones?

[06:35:01]

How - how possible was it, other than inadvertently, accidentally adding someone from your address book to the chat who was mislabeled, how likely was it that especially the top cabinet members who were traveling in India and Moscow -

CORNISH: Right.

DOZIER: That, you know, if - if a foreign adversaries intel service can get close to your phone, even hardened phones, as they're called, government phones, can sometimes get malware inserted on them, and then that malware can read everything that's being typed into it.

So, the concern is the security of these communications. You know, luckily, it was Jeffrey Goldberg who accidentally got added. But how vulnerable does it mean these sensitive communications might be to actual adversaries?

CORNISH: In the meantime, Republican Senator Kevin Cramer was offering a suggestion for how he thinks his party should actually handle the Signal scandal.

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SEN. KEVIN CRAMER (R-ND): I don't think attacking the messenger is a particularly effective - in fact, in a situation like this, I think if anything, the best way to retake the high ground is to admit a mistake was made and, again, apologize for it and ensure that it doesn't happen again.

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CORNISH: Would the White House be able to get past this, so to speak, if they just continued with the message of, it was an error, we're moving on?

DOZIER: That's what they're trying to do. But, of course, they've got to complete their own internal investigation before they say, here are lessons learned. And in our 24/7 news information cycle, we want the answers now.

I think if President Trump feels ego bruised and embarrassed by this, only then do Mike Waltz or Pete Hegseth risk losing their jobs. But especially Waltz is loyal to the core behind closed doors to Trump. I've known him for years in Wounded Warrior circles. So, I think they're going to say, look, we thought this was a good communications app to use in the case of emergency. We got to comfortable with it. We started using it too often. We're going to go back to using the closed loop secret systems that were designed for this. CORNISH: Yes. Although that's not what we're hearing. We're kind of hearing, the past administrations used this. Maybe it was a hoax. Maybe he hacked me. There's kind of like a real mixed bag of things here.

DOZIER: But that's because they can't. Their instinct is not to admit fault. Even though you've heard Secretary of State Marco Rubio say this was a mistake. Whoops.

I think the - once they hear also from - I've talked to some foreign officials about this, they're really enjoying the memes and they're going to tease Mike Waltz and team forever about it. But they're like, you know what, we all use Signal in extremis. It's a good app. It's fairly secure.

CORNISH: Right.

DOZIER: But we're more careful and everyone's going to be a bit more careful for a while now.

CORNISH: So, it sounds like the path is lesson learned is what you - you think we're going to hear more.

DOZIER: Indeed.

CORNISH: Kim Dozier, thanks so much.

I want to move now to Palestinians in Gaza because they are now protesting in the streets against the war, and Hamas, for a second day straight.

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CORNISH: So, what's remarkable here is that many of the protesters are saying Hamas does not represent them.

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MAHMOUD HAJ AHMAD, SURGEON AT KAMAL ADWAN HOSPITAL (through translator): Our final message is to Hamas. Enough is enough. You've ruled long enough. Give others a chance and let others come. We are all children of one nation who will support one another. Give others the opportunity to govern.

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CORNISH: And a direct message for the Israeli army, stop the bloodshed. But Hamas implied that Israel is inciting these protests.

Bobby Ghosh joins me now. He's the senior editor of "Digital Weekend" at "Bloomberg."

First, let's start about this protest itself for Palestinians. How significant is this moment?

BOBBY GHOSH, SENIOR EDITOR, "DIGITAL WEEKEND," "BLOOMBERG": It's very significant, Audie. The support for Hamas has been falling steadily in Gaza to the extent that we can trust them. There have been opinion polls that have been showing that.

There have been anti-Hamas protests for a while, since October 7th of two years ago, but nothing on this scale. This is a much larger scale than we've seen before, and they seem to be sustained. This is the second day. Those images are from the second day. We'll see if there have been more in the days to come.

So, it is quite significant that these should be happening on this scale.

CORNISH: It's also something that I think the Israeli government has been saying for a long time as they've tried to excise Hamas from the region.

Here's Israeli defense minister, Israel Katz.

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ISRAEL KATZ, ISRAELI DEFENSE MINISTER (through translator): Hamas is endangering your lives and will cause you to lose your homes and more and more territory that will be added to the Israeli defense system.

Learn from the residents of Beit Lahia. As they did, you too will demand the removal of Hamas from Gaza and the immediate release of all Israeli hostages. This is the only way to stop the war.

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[06:40:05]

CORNISH: How is Israel taking advantage of this moment? How are they leaning into it?

GHOSH: Well, they - they would take advantage as - as much as they can. They would - they would point out to these protests and say to the rest of the world, look, you know, the military campaign is having an effect. But the timing of these protests would allow them to make that claim.

I don't think the Palestinians are responding to Israeli suggestions that they protest. I think the protests come from their own sense of desperation, despair and frustration at the lack of any kind of progress.

I - just because the protests are anti-Hamas does not suggest that they are in any way in support of Israel. But from - from the point of view of timing, that's something that Israel can take advantage of. And it will also help when - and let's hope that is soon -

CORNISH: Yes.

GHOSH: When the next round of negotiations begin. It is something that the Israeli side might be able to use to their advantage. CORNISH: I want to talk about the Israeli side because there have been

protests of the war with Hamas in Israel, people who are still very upset with Netanyahu. I want to play you a little bit of sound there.

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SHARON GALPERIN, PROTESTER: Unfortunately, a member of our family was kidnaped and murdered by Hamas. And if our government would have done what the government should be doing for its citizens, his - he would have been alive with us now.

MERAV BERKOWITZ, PROTESTER: I feel I'm saving my country. This is what I feel. I feel Bibi is not doing what his people want. He's not thinking about the best of his people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Is - are there aspects of domestic politics within Israel that could come into play here? It's own pressures?

GHOSH: Well, these protests in Israel have been going on for a very, very long time. There have been other protests against Prime Minister Netanyahu over the corruption charges against him. Those even predate the terrorist attacks. He has somehow survived. And he has survived because he's able to marshal just enough of the political landscape in that country, particularly the - the far right around him, to build a coalition, to stay in power.

And so, you know, given the - given the man's ability to play the cards that he's dealt, I would not bet against Benjamin Netanyahu surviving this round as well. And, of course, to the question you asked earlier, he would be able to point to these - these protests in Gaza to say to his audience in Israel that, look, here's another piece of evidence that my military, my policies, my decisions are having an effect.

Of course, there is an important distinction between these two kinds of protests.

CORNISH: Yes, of course.

GHOSH: On the one hand, you have the protests in Israel in a fairly safe and stable democracy. Those - those demonstrators are not at risk of - of retaliation, whereas the ones in Palestine, they will have to be looking over the backs over the next few days to see what Hamas does in response. And Hamas' previous actions have suggested that they are capable of quite bloody retribution.

CORNISH: That's Bobby Ghosh with "Bloomberg." I appreciate you talking with us this morning.

Still ahead on CNN, the shifting excuses from the White House over Signal-gate, as many on Capitol Hill demanding answers.

Up next, Senator Peter Welch joins us live to talk about that and a lot more. Plus, why federal funding for NPR and PBS seems to be the next target

for DOGE cuts. More from the group chat after this.

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[06:47:57]

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KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We have said all along that no classified material was sent on this messaging thread. There were no locations, no sources or methods revealed.

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CORNISH: The White House refusing to back down over the Signal group chat scandal where military strike plans were disclosed hours before an attack on targets in Yemen. A journalist from "The Atlantic," of course, revealed all the messages from the chat, which he had been invited to join. Apparently, none of the high-ranking members realized a random name had been added to the list. But now the president and his allies are saying this story is over.

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SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): There was no classified material out there. The strike was not compromised in any way. America is safer today because of the actions that President Trump took. The libs can't complain about that. So, here we are. I would say, case closed.

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CORNISH: Joining me now to talk about this, Democratic Senator Peter Welch of Vermont.

Senator, thank you for joining us here on CNN THIS MORNING.

I don't know if you've looked closely at the release of the chats now, but do they comport with what you're hearing from the White House?

SEN. PETER WELCH (D-VT): Totally they do not. I mean, there's two issues. One is competence. How did this happen? You put a journalist on top secret intelligence on a chat. The other is candor. And there is none. I mean what's undeniable is that these did contain really essential information. The time, the place, the location, the weapon systems, material that is totally classified. And the White House is denying what is in plain sight.

So, it really raises credibility issues. And what is kind of shocking to me is where it's so apparent that this was, let's be generous, a mistake.

CORNISH: I think you called it amateur hour on X.

WELCH: It is amateur hour. But the candor issue is really what's important here. They are not - they're denying what is in front of our very eyes. So, they want us to not see what's before our eyes.

And they're doing it in a very brazen way from the president, to Secretary Hegseth, to the security director, Waltz.

[06:50:05]

And that just destroys the kind of confidence that we have to have in our political leaders. If - go ahead.

CORNISH: I want to jump in here because you've called for the defense secretary to resign. Senator Duckworth is saying similarly in a tweet, she calls him a liar.

But when I think back to the last decade or so, whether it's the Mueller investigation, Jack Smith's special counsel probes, the former - the president has always been able to say, look at them going nuts talking about this. This is nothing. And it's become a kind of shorthand to the public that everything is an overreaction and none of this should be taken seriously.

So, what lessons should Democrats take away from that? How do you talk about this if you truly believe it is a scandal that demands accountability?

WELCH: Well, you know, you're talking about the dumbing down of the concept of truth in candor. That's what's happening with the Trump administration. I mean the lies here, when in fact you can read the text chain yourself, and you see that it does talk about top secret information, the weapons systems, the time, the location, where the attack is going to occur.

So, this is where - it's not a debate about what's factually true. We know it. And it doesn't stick all that much with Trump. And that actually is to the detriment of our Democratic principles.

So, I actually think this one was way over the top because it's so accessible to everyday people who don't have to figure out whether this is a secret or it isn't. So, this is, I think, a bridge too far, even for President Trump and his casual attitude towards the truth.

CORNISH: Yes. And Hegseth, the defense secretary, is now landing in the Philippines. I'm sure he's going to end up probably addressing this issue again. It's followed him in many places.

In the meantime, I want to ask you about the latest round of tariffs. Obviously, with Vermont on the Canadian border. How are you feeling the ripple effects of this? Because I know you actually spoke with some business leaders up there. What are you hearing about the real time effects?

WELCH: The tariffs on Canada and Mexico are - especially Canada, are nothing but downside. You know, first of all, if you have tariffs, they have an appropriate place, like when there's unfair trade practices from Canada - or, pardon me, from China. But Canada's our biggest trading partner. Not just Vermont, but for -

CORNISH: And they're upset. Like, they're really mad. So -

WELCH: Well, they're really upset.

CORNISH: So, like, are you starting to feel the tensions?

WELCH: Well, the impact is - the impact is real. So, like, for instance, just an example. We export logs to Canada and they get milled up there and they come back as lumber that we then use to build our houses. That's going to increase the cost of a house by like $25,000 because there's a tariff going up now and a tariff coming back.

We have farmers - and this is true all across America - who get their fertilizer from Canada. That is going to increase the cost substantially to farmers. And they're on a knife edge, all of them, to - to survive economically.

Just maple syrup is another, you know, we're proud of that in Vermont, but we get our aluminum, our equipment from Canada. It's going to cost us a lot of money.

So -

CORNISH: And a cost coming and going, which is, I think, what you're underscoring (INAUDIBLE).

WELCH: It does. That's right. And then, of course, with cars, it's going to increase the cost of a vehicle. Even if it's made in America, because we get so many parts that go back and forth between Canada and the U.S., even if it's made largely in America, it's going to be $3,000 and it could be up to $12,000 if it's finally assembled in Canada and comes back down.

So, this is going to have a wicked economic impact on everyday people and increase the price of groceries, increase the price of automobiles, increase the price of housing. And for what? I mean Canada is our ally.

CORNISH: Yes.

WELCH: They have good labor practices, good environmental practices. They're our partner. And, of course, they're incredibly upset and are going to - and they see us as an adversary now, which is very unfortunate.

CORNISH: I have one more brief question. I used to work at NPR. You were at Vermont, which has a huge Vermont public radio presence for, like, rural communities there. But that was a hearing yesterday, the questioning of their funding. It was happening at the same time as people were talking to law enforcement leaders on The Hill.

You also have legislation that would help local news organizations get funding, grants, to stand up on their own. Why shouldn't NPR and PBS stand up on their own?

WELCH: Well, they largely do. I mean, in Vermont, we have the - CORNISH: But if it's just 1 percent of funding, why do they - like, why not take that cut and figure out something else?

WELCH: Well, first of all, and that question of local news, NPR in Vermont is not this monolith of NPR everywhere. We have our local affiliates. And in Vermont, it literally is the voice that kind of unifies Vermont, because we - they have terrific local news. And you see the support in Vermont because we have the highest per capita contributions to NPR. So, you may be a farmer. You have it on in your barn.

[06:55:00]

You may be an office worker, and you can have it on in your office. But it does provide an underlying glue that holds. It helps hold Vermont as a community together, despite having very rural and very urban areas in the state.

CORNISH: Yes. I wanted to ask you the question because at a certain point don't you want to be inoculated from what is ending up a cyclical political discussion about its funding?

WELCH: Well, sure. But here's the issue that I think is so important, local news. And this debate in Congress is about managing the news. People who don't like what they may be hearing on a particular statement. So, NPR, PBS becomes a symbol. But, in fact, shouldn't our goal be to have strong local news across the country? In my view, NPR and PBS assist in that. So, I'm a supporter, and I actually think the biggest problem - one of the big problems we have is that local news has become so weakened because of what has happened on the internet and the whole advertising model that has been essential to the well- being of local press that has been destroyed.

CORNISH: Well, Senator Welch, thank you so much for talking with us about so many different things. Appreciate your time.

WELCH: Thank you.

CORNISH: It's now 55 minutes past the hour. So, if you're on the way out, here is the morning roundup, some of the stories you need to get your day going.

New video shows a Tufts University Ph.D. student being arrested by ICE officials. Charges have not been filed. Homeland Security says Rumeysa Ozturk engaged in, quote, "activities in support of Hamas." No further details were offered. But CNN has learned that she co-wrote an op-ed criticizing Tufts response to the pro-Palestinian movement last year.

In a separate incident, immigration authorities detained an Iranian graduate student at the University of Alabama. CNN has reached out to ICE and DHS for more details on that case.

And someone slipped a heart-shaped note into a pair of socks that Luigi Mangione was supposed to wear in court last month. That's according to court documents. An officer actually intercepted it. The note for the accused killer of the UnitedHealthcare CEO said, "keep your head held high and know there are thousands of people wishing you luck."

And the ongoing measles outbreak in west Texas has taken an unexpected turn, with doctors reporting signs of vitamin a toxicity in some patients. Doctors there suspect people are taking high doses of it, believing it will prevent measles. Health and Human Services Secretary RFK Jr. has been promoting vitamin a during this outbreak. It can be used to treat measles in some cases, but the only way to prevent it is with a vaccine.

And play ball, because it's officially opening day for Major League Baseball. Fourteen games are on the schedule, including the defending champion Los Angeles Dodgers. They are hosting the Detroit Tigers. The champs are already 2-0 after sweeping the Cubs in Japan just last week.

Bias with me jumping in with the senator about NPR, but it was sort of the hearing that happened yesterday that people maybe didn't watch.

HANS NICHOLS, POLITICAL REPORTER, "AXIOS": Yes, but moments of it will be clipped and people will draw their own conclusions from it, right? I mean it's like so much in our current media is, choose your own adventure.

CORNISH: It is.

NICHOLS: And if you saw Katherine Maher give an answer that you didn't like, that will find its way to your feet. If you saw an answer that Katherine Maher, the president and CEO of NPR, that you do like, that will find a way to - to its feed, which is in part the broader question of media and desegregation.

CORNISH: Yes. OK. Check your timelines, folks, because I think Hans has a point.

I want to talk to you all about what you're keeping an eye on, on the road ahead the next day or two.

Jasmine, let me start with you.

JASMINE WRIGHT, WHITE HOUSE REPORTER, "NOTUS": I'm keeping my eye on what happens with Voice of America. We've seen a couple of things over the last few days.

CORNISH: Which is, actually, state funded media.

WRIGHT: Yes, which is state funded media. Kari Lake signified to the courts that they were canceling the cancellation of the grant for Radio Free Europe, trying to, you know, undo some of that litigation. And, of course, Trump, last night, said that the man who was supposed to be nominated to lead USAGM, VOA's parent company, is now going to be the ambassador of Africa. So - or South Africa. So, I think that there are some movement. They are trying to see kind of what ends up in the shape (ph).

CORNISH: OK, Jerusalem Demsas. JERUSALEM DEMSAS, STAFF WRITER, "THE ATLANTIC": Yes, I mean, we're

seeing ICE pick up legal residents of this country, people on student visas who are legally here to make -

CORNISH: Let's just to underscore that, legal residents.

DEMSAS: Legal - legal residents here. And, I mean, if you watch these videos, I mean, the video of - in - at Tufts University in Somerville, Massachusetts, I mean, these are plain clothes people covering their faces, rushing a young woman on the street. She's not even sure they're officers. You hear people in the background talking and saying, hey, like, how do we know you're officially ICE? And that sort of thing, I think, is going to be really disruptive to communities for various reasons, even if you aren't someone on a - on a visa.

CORNISH: Right. As we said, we have not heard charges yet.

DEMSAS: Not at all.

CORNISH: Hans Nichols.

NICHOLS: Marco Rubio and how he navigates this. He was on the Signal chat. But Marco Rubio has kind of been the most quiet and has said it's a mistake.

[07:00:01]

And then the corollary to that, Roger Wicker in the Senate, he's moving forward with investigations. He has not been shy. Republican from Mississippi. Chair of the Armed Services Committee. He has not been shy about criticizing Pete Hegseth, criticizing the Trump administration. And it looks like he wants some answers.

CORNISH: Right. And we know that the House is less inclined to do that kind of oversight. But you're saying, this is a lawmaker to watch in the Senate?

NICHOLS: Absolutely.

CORNISH: Appreciate you. Thanks to the panel. Thanks to my group chat. Thank you for waking up with us. I'm Audie Cornish. And "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.