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Fred Upton is Interviewed about Tariffs; Tourist Helicopter Crash in Hudson River; Radical Changes at HHS; Trump Must Facilitate Kilmar Garcia's Return. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired April 11, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:33:01]

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everybody. I'm Audie Cornish. Thank you for joining me on CNN THIS MORNING.

It's half past the hour here on the East Coast, and here's what's happening right now.

Top Trump administration officials Steve Witkoff just arriving in Russia. The Kremlin confirming this visit overnight, but they won't confirm whether there is a meeting on the books between Witkoff and the Russian president.

And the fate of Columbia University graduate Mahmoud Khalil will be decided by an immigration judge in Louisiana today. The Palestinian activist is a legal permanent resident being detained by ICE. The secretary of state claims Khalil should be deported because of his beliefs, statements or associations and says that those compromised U.S. foreign policy.

This morning, President Trump will undergo the first annual physical exam of his second term. In January, he became the oldest president in U.S. history to be sworn into office at the age of 78. Trump has routinely kept the results of his exam in secret.

So, we've been following breaking news out of Asia, China's latest escalation in the mounting trade war. They're raising tariffs on U.S. imports to 125 percent. Yesterday, the White House said that Chinese goods coming to the U.S. could face a 145 percent tariff. All of this is roiling markets. It's raising concern about a potential recession here in the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JANET YELLEN, FORMER U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: This is the worst self- inflicted wound that I have ever seen an administration impose on a well-functioning economy.

The tariffs that have been imposed on China are what I would call prohibitive. They're going to result in massive impacts on the United States and the global economy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Joining me now to discuss, former Michigan Congressman Fred Upton.

Welcome to CNN THIS MORNING. Thanks for being here.

FRED UPTON (R), FORMER MICHIGAN CONGRESSMAN: Good morning. Yes.

CORNISH: So, I really wanted to talk to you because obviously being from Michigan, you care about Detroit, the auto industry.

[06:35:05]

I was learning from you that soybean farmers and soybean crops are in Michigan as well. And the thing that really strikes me about this moment is like where Congress is, right? Janet Yellen is saying, this is all self-inflicted on U.S. policy.

UPTON: Well, it is. It's a tax on Americans consumers. Let's face it. And we import three times as much from China as they import from us. So, you have this tit for tat as they raise their tariffs tomorrow to 125 percent. And with a new number at 140 percent now in terms of what we're tariff - what our new tariff limits are. I expect that they'll probably - China will probably raise their tariffs again.

So, if you're a - if you're a farmer and you're debating whether you're going to grow soybeans or corn or whatever, I guess all of a sudden that market collapses because China's going to purchase that from someplace else, what are you going to do this - this spring? You know, it's planting season.

CORNISH: It's plant - yes, it is. It is. And we've talked about farmers having a lot of debt. We've talked about kind of how their -

UPTON: Pot ash in terms of coming from Canada.

CORNISH: Yes.

UPTON: But for autos, you know, Michigan's the auto state. One in seven jobs in America are auto related. So, my old district, southwest Michigan, we had a lot of auto parts. We didn't have any auto assembly. But, you know, I can remember going to the auto show with President Biden back in 2022, and there were just thousands of Ford trucks that were just sitting, waiting to go to the showroom because they didn't have the chip, the microchip in there for, you know, all the different functions, which is why we needed the chip bill there. But -

CORNISH: Let me jump in here for a second, because, as you mentioned, the auto industry, you had Shawn Fain, head of the UAW, speaking to the union. And - and the reason why is because he does support some tariffs. And you do hear some union activists talking about supporting protectionist policies on car manufacturers.

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SHAWN FAIN, UAW PRESIDENT: But there is a reason for tariffs. And it's also a mistake to just defend the status quo, especially when it comes to free trade. We support some use of tariffs on auto manufacturing and other similar industries. We don't support the use of tariffs for political games about immigration or fentanyl. We do not support reckless, chaotic tariffs on all countries at crazy rates.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: So, I have heard every description of these as reckless, as we heard, self-inflicted. But there is also a strain of the American public that says, we were really screwed over by free trade agreements. This is a chance to shock the system into something different. And why shouldn't we give that a chance?

UPTON: Well, the question is, on the whole issue is, what is the timing of it? Do you - do you threaten and say, look, get your - yes, we want to sell cars to Japan, we want to sell cars to South Korea, we want to sell more cars in China. But you might want to put that on the table first before you have this huge tariff that all of a sudden is going to hit American consumers to the tune of, you know, you saw earlier, you know, four, or six, maybe even $8,000 a vehicle. We want jobs created here in this country, but it takes a long time to get an auto plant to get done. Whether it's, you know, there's thousands of parts in these things. I mean you get - the whole supply chain issue is - is huge. Parts go back and forth.

We did - and I was a proud supporter of the USMCA, a great plus for the Trump administration in his first term here.

CORNISH: Right, which some people called NAFTA 2, I think.

UPTON: Yes, NAFTA 2. But it needed to be redone. It was done. It had the support of the UAW, as well as the big three. It was bipartisan majorities in both the Republican and Democratic side. And we - we worked through it.

But you negotiate first with maybe the threat of a tariff coming at the end if you don't get the deal that you think you might be able to achieve.

CORNISH: You were in Congress for a very long time.

UPTON: Some way not long enough, but -

CORNISH: Yes, some say not long enough.

UPTON: I'm glad I'm not there now.

CORNISH: Well, to my point, you had to do the work of going out and messaging on Trump policies. In a moment, when - when there's backlash. So, when you listen to your former colleagues, what do you hear? Do you hear people who are going along to getting along and trying to make this work? Do you hear people who actually believe in this tactic? UPTON: Well, you know, it's - I think it seems to be, at least on the

Republican side, a little bit of a wait and see. They want to see how this is going to work. They hope that it's going to work OK. They know that they got terrible disruption, not only in the ag community, but also in the auto industry and manufacturing. Of course we want more manufacturing jobs right here.

CORNISH: But on this topic is the sort of MAGA support that those people who make the phone calls to congressional offices, those people who threaten lawmakers with being primaried, like are they also enjoying this moment?

[06:40:03]

UPTON: They're nervous. I think they're - I think they're pretty nervous. And we saw that with the vote on the - on the budget just yesterday.

But the real tough vote is going to come a little bit later on as they try to piece together a reconciliation package that perhaps has cuts to Medicaid as much as $880 billion. So, there's - there's a lot of rough waters ahead. And so far, Speaker Johnson has been able to corral his groups and -

CORNISH: Yes. But I hear you listening for the canaries in the coal mine. The people who are upset about the math and who are going to start calling out the math.

UPTON: The big votes are coming up. Yes, the big votes are going to be coming up in the next probably May or June in terms of trying to put together this budget package called reconciliation. But we, you know, we'd like to think that - that the tariffs that are there are ultimately, you know, the 90-day pause that was announced earlier this week was a great thing for the market. But all of a sudden things tanked again yesterday and I think the futures are down again already for today.

CORNISH: So, people are speaking with their money.

UPTON: They're worried about their 401(k)s.

CORNISH: Yes. Yes.

Fred Upton, thank you so much for some of this insight.

We want to bring you now back to this developing story. We actually have more detail about that charter company operating the helicopter that crashed into the Hudson River on Thursday. Again, I want to give you a moment, a warning, because this video is disturbing.

So, the helicopter is on a sightseeing excursion when it goes down. Everyone on board was killed. And at this point this morning, the NTSB is investigating this crash and the company compliance with two recent FAA directives that require testing and replacement of tail rotors and the main rotor blades.

Bringing in former NTSB managing director and CNN aviation analyst Peter Goelz.

Peter, can you just start with this idea of the - the mechanics at play? Because, obviously, we look for human error. You look for the mechanics. What do we mean when we talk about these airworthiness directives?

PETER GOELZ, CNN AVIATION ANALYST: Well, every company that operates commercial aircraft is regulated by the FAA. And they have to respond to these periodic directives from the FAA, which is based on their monitoring of the industry.

And the first thing the NTSB does when an accident occurs is they contact the company to freeze all maintenance records, to freeze all pilot records, so that they can see whether the company has adequately and document - adequately responded and documented to these - documented that they've completed the work ordered by the FAA.

This was clearly a catastrophic failure and - and very unusual, where you - the videotape tragic, showing the aircraft going down without its tail rotor and having lost its main rotors. There are airworthiness directives that told the company to check certain parts of its rotor engine assembly. And the FAA and the NTSB will want to see that those work - that that work has been completed.

They'll also look for more videotape to see if there are any other perspectives. But this is a - there were upwards of 30,000 to 50,000 of these types of, you know, tourist flights each year. It's a big business in New York, and it needs to be regulated safely.

CORNISH: You talked about looking for more video. What are the other angles going to show you? Is it about where these engine parts are falling? What is it people will be looking for?

GOELZ: Well, you're exactly right, Audie. The NTSB - the most important part of a wreckage field is what came off first on the aircraft. That gives you a hint of what started this succession of events that ended up in the fatal crash. So, they may be able to see some parts coming off the aircraft, where they landed and search for them.

Underwater searches are difficult, but the NTSB has conducted many of them, and they will want to get down and see each and every part that came off the aircraft. It will also show whether there was anything in the vicinity of the helicopter. Could it have possibly been a mid-air collision of some sort with something? But the videotape in this case is very dramatic and very important to the investigation.

CORNISH: Peter Goelz, CNN aviation analyst, thank you for explaining that.

[06:45:02]

Appreciate you this morning.

All right, we're going to turn to the radical changes coming to the Department of Health and Human Services. In an op-ed published in "The New York Post," Secretary RFK Jr. says he's trying to streamline HHS. He plans to close multiple field offices and merge others.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ROBERT F. KENNEDY JR., HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: What this reorganization is meant to do is to eliminate the redundancies, to streamline the agency and to reorient it so that we are trying to make America healthy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: The group chat is back.

Akayla, what have you been hearing about what is actually happening there?

AKAYLA GARDNER, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, "BLOOMBERG NEWS": Well, one thing that really struck me about this op-ed is it comes after there's been concerns about the communications response from HHS and directly from Robert F. Kennedy Jr. And so now we're seeing him write in his own words his vision for the department, and we're seeing them have these plans to cut about 20,000 workers at the agency. Democrats are really pushing to meet with him and learn more about those jobs. Where - what exactly parts of the agency is going to be affected. And there's real concerns that there's going to be critical jobs that are lost. And yet he is saying -

CORNISH: And they wouldn't be concerned if they didn't do an op-ed, right? Like, that's the panic when you get the guy himself to actually write about this. And it's coming on the heels of him attending a funeral. A child's funeral, right? Somebody who, unvaccinated, who got the measles. So, it's more than just showing, like, this reorg is going well. I mean, am I misreading that?

HYMA MOORE, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF, DNC CHAIRMAN JAMIE HARRISON: No, I think you're right. I mean I feel like we're in the upside down world in some - in some court. Look, I think what I - what struck me about this op-ed is, he talked a lot about cutting jobs, not enough about what he's actually going to do to make America healthy again. And so, I think most Democrats, Republicans, independents think America should be healthier. And they agree with most of the things he's saying. But he's not laying out a vision or a plan to do that. He's cutting critical jobs at the CDC. Senator Warnock has talked about this. And Ossoff talked about this in Georgia. Those are critical, not just for our health - in public health, but for the workforce in Georgia. And so, these cuts are going to be catastrophic in some ways for the country.

CORNISH: I know he didn't publish his op-ed in "The Bulwark" for a reason, OK. So, it's not your audience. However, what does it mean that he aimed it at the audience that he did? What does that say to you about how things are going?

ANDREW EGGER, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, "THE BULWARK": Well, one thing it says is that, you know, the way that these different factions play out on - on issues like, you know, cutting jobs the federal government issues, like, you know, how people feel about vaccines, they cut across political lines in sort of a strange way.

The one thing I wanted to add on, on what you were saying is, you know, 80 percent of that op-ed is him walking through in kind of granular detail everything they're planning to do with - with different, you know, job reorganizations within the - within the agency.

And then there's basically a tiny little footnote at the bottom, which is, oh, and we're also going to reorient, you know, what we're actually trying to do, like the actual goals.

But - but, I mean, I think a lot of people want to hear a lot more about that because when you - when you hear RFK gesture toward these things, I mean, there are some relatively alarming things that - that he wants to do.

CORNISH: Right.

EGGER: I mean, like he talks about, you know, we're going to - we're going to get to the bottom once and for all of what's causing autism in America. Well, we know what he thinks.

CORNISH: Yes, not a minor footnote.

EGGER: Yes, I mean - right, right.

CORNISH: Yes. Exactly.

EGGER: Like - like - like going (ph). So, that's - that's a - I mean it's - it's strange to - to see - I mean it's in keeping with the DOGE stuff. It's in keeping with all the stuff that's going on in the government to try to - to try to shrink the workforce. But - but I think, you know, there's a real significant other shoe to drop as far as the actual policy rollouts that they're going to be doing in the next couple months.

CORNISH: To what end. To what end.

Andrew, thank you.

Ahead on CNN THIS MORNING, immigration officers may be stopping more than migrants and contraband from entering the country. Why they're also focusing on illegal ideas and what that even means.

Plus, live from London, it's Saturday night. A new version of "SNL" about to cross the pond. More from the group chat after this.

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MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: We've also found cooperation in other countries that are willing to take some of these people, some very dangerous criminals. I know the president of El Salvador will be here next week, has really been a good friend to the United States in that regard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Secretary of State Marco Rubio praising El Salvador for imprisoning hundreds of deported migrants in that country's super prison. But now one of those men may be returning to the U.S. Last night, the Supreme Court ruled the Trump administration must, quote, "facilitate" the return of Kilmar Abrego Garcia. He was mistakenly deported to El Salvador. White House officials have claimed that the ruling is actually a vindication for them. Adviser Stephen Miller says the Supreme Court rejected a lower court ruling, adding Abrego Garcia is now, quote, "in the custody and control of a sovereign nation."

Joining me now to talk about this case and a bunch of legal things this week, Elliot Williams, CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor. And we should say, you worked for ICE at one point, which is another reason that you're here.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I did. Yes.

CORNISH: So, the Trump administration claiming victory, but then also very specifically saying, and this person is now being held by a sovereign nation.

WILLIAMS: Right.

CORNISH: I think the implication is there, we can't control them.

WILLIAMS: Right. The Supreme Court sort of gave something to everybody. Yes, it's a victory for - for the Trump administration because he's out of the country and, in effect, the court did not require them to get him back here. It's still a victory -

CORNISH: They just said, work on it.

WILLIAMS: Just work on it. Work on it. Which is kind of a victory for him, too, because there's still a chance, I guess. But, you know, the court does this. It kicks decisions back down to lower courts to just sort of sort out, keep their hands clean.

CORNISH: OK, we're going to watch that, especially because, as they mentioned, El Salvador's president is coming. So, I think this story is not going away.

I want to ask you about something else, because there have been a ton of students around the country who have had their student visas revoked because of the things they may have said during the Gaza protests. They haven't been formally charged.

But in the context of this, people are paying attention to what ICE is doing. And then out of nowhere, this ad gets posted by ICE. I want you to take a look. And it talks about what ICE's job is, to stop illegal, as we see, people, money, products. What's that last one, Elliot?

[06:55:00]

WILLIAMS: Ideas.

CORNISH: OK. They quickly deleted this post. Probably because it sounded like a bad idea. They said that they actually meant intellectual property.

WILLIAMS: Yes. Uh-huh.

CORNISH: OK. Continue with the eyebrows.

WILLIAMS: It's very Olivia Rodrigo, bad idea, right?

CORNISH: OK. OK.

WILLIAMS: Literally, bad idea of bad ideas.

Two things can be true at once. And two things ought to be true at once. One, ICE has broad authority to decide who gets to stay in the country. And they have broad authority. And we have robust speech protections in the United States. And when we, as a nation, start targeting lawful exercise of thought or speech, it starts getting very dangerous.

Now, ICE is saying, with the aid of the secretary of state, Marco Rubio, that, look, bad ideas are dangerous to the United States. We need to crack down on getting them out of here. But -

CORNISH: Yes. And they would argue, look, it was a mistake.

WILLIAMS: Well -

CORNISH: I think the thing I noticed is that, because of what they're doing, because of their actual actions in other areas, people immediately looked at this.

WILLIAMS: Yes. It's - it's not that - it's - OK, maybe it's a mistake. It's a pretty stupid mistake for the government to make, to talk about putting the sanctioning or cracking down on ideas.

Look, there are robust communications offices at the White House, Department of Homeland Security, wherever else someone needed to vet that and realize -

CORNISH: Yes.

WILLIAMS: Even under -

CORNISH: Well, someone thought it was a good idea at one point. So, that's the other thing.

WILLIAMS: Yes. But even under the most aggressive of circumstances, you just can't put that on paper.

CORNISH: All right. This one is just hard to explain, but we're going to try.

WILLIAMS: Ah, we're going to - CORNISH: We're learning that the Trump administration is moving to ideas - to an idea where they would basically take the migrants who they've revoked their visas, or taken away their status, they would move them to a list under Social Security. It's like the dead name list, basically.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

CORNISH: And when that happens, they're legally issued Social Security Numbers go away.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

CORNISH: What happens to you when that happens?

WILLIAMS: I think you have a really hard time working at any -

CORNISH: Working -

WILLIAMS: Working.

CORNISH: Banking.

WILLIAMS: Working, banking, but also coming forward and making yourself known to the government.

And it's -

CORNISH: But this is what confuses people because they're like, oh, if they had a Social Security Number then like this -

WILLIAMS: But a lot of people have - a lot of people work in the country, even if they're unlawfully -

CORNISH: Right, and they have tax numbers.

WILLIAMS: And they have tax numbers. And I - once again, you have a tension here where the government sure wants to crack down on illegal legal immigration, but also wants people to pay taxes and go to the hospital and engage in society. And this is their way of doing it.

Now, from my time at ICE, I know that getting even the 400,000 people a year that we were removing from the country at the time is exceptionally hard. And what they're doing here is by any means necessary, quite literally, getting people to leave the country on their own. They're creating the conditions to make them so bad that folks want to go. And the Social Security thing -

CORNISH: Self-deport, yes.

WILLIAMS: Self-deport and - yes.

CORNISH: Deterrence and self-depot. So.

WILLIAMS: Because they can't - because they don't have the resources or people to be able to get 100 million or 100 - you know, hundreds of thousands or a million people kicked out of the country. So, they're just trying to get them to go on their own.

CORNISH: People are still watching this. There are so many different hearings around the country for all of these different migrants.

WILLIAMS: (INAUDIBLE).

CORNISH: CNN legal analyst Elliot Williams.

OK, if you are getting ready, it's almost 7:00. Three minutes to the hour. Here's your morning roundup. Some of the stories I want you to know to get going.

Tomorrow, the U.S. and Iran are going to hold high level talks in Oman. And new overnight, Iran laid out its red for those talks. There are strict terms, including no threatening language or excessive demands about its nuclear program. President Trump has warned that if these talks fail, Iran would be in, quote, great danger.

And in California, the Menendez brothers' bid for freedom now in the hands of a judge. A resentencing hearing is scheduled for this afternoon. The L.A. County district attorney opposes this push and claims that the brothers haven't taken responsibility for the murder of their parents. California's governor is also considering clemency.

And a Russian American ballerina wrongfully detained in Russia, now back on U.S. soil. Ksenia Karelina arrived in D.C. just after 11:00 p.m., reunited with her fiance on the runway there. The 33-year-old was sentenced last year for donating $50 to a charity that supported Ukraine.

And "Saturday Night Live" crossing the pond. NBC's iconic late night comedy show launching a British edition, "Saturday Night Live U.K.," which will debut in 2026. "SNL" mastermind Lorne Michaels will serve as executive producer.

OK, guys, I want to talk now with the group chat about what you are keeping an eye on in the days ahead. Elliot and I mentioned that El Salvador's leader coming to the U.S. That's the thing I'm watching.

Hyma, for you?

MOORE: I'm watching - so Ben Wikler, the state party chair of the Democratic Party in Wisconsin just stepped down - or will be stepping down this summer and the new party chair will take place. So, I'm watching what happens in Wisconsin.

CORNISH: We really care about Wisconsin. Democrats are on it.

MOORE: We will keep caring about Wisconsin. It's going to be a really big election. And Ben Wikler's been fantastic.

CORNISH: OK.

What you keeping an eye on?

EGGER: Watching the bond market. Stocks freaking out all over the place. Usually you'd see investors -

CORNISH: Which sounds nerdy, but I have learned to explain to say to people that this matters.

EGGER: Yes, usually you would see investors kind of piling into bonds as a safer haven. That has been looking a little concerning the last few days, raising some questions as to whether investors are thinking, you know, oh, my gosh, the whole thing might - might have some problems.

[07:00:04]

So, hopefully they can restabilize that.

CORNISH: OK, last word to you.

GARDNER: I'm looking at the gold card. The White House says they're rolling this out next week. We saw the president holding a copy of it on Air Force One. But this is $5 million. We have to see if there's actual -

CORNISH: To get into the U.S.

GARDNER: Yes.

CORNISH: Yes.

GARDNER: If there's actual interest in people paying for this and whether investors are actually going to line up, as the president says that they will.

CORNISH: OK.

Well, I want the group chat to - to - I want to thank you for being here. I appreciate it, on a Friday.

Thank you for waking up with us. I'm Audie Cornish. And "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.