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CNN This Morning

Trump Optimistic As Trade War Heightens, Financial Markets Shaken; Judge Rules Mahmoud Khalil Can Be Deported; Trump Administration Lists Thousands Of Immigrants As Dead In New Policy; Black Pilots Respond To Trump's Anti-DEI Message; RFK JR. Pledges Study Into Cause Of What He Calls "Autism Epidemic"; Oregon Business Turns Discarded Books Into Journals And Jewelry. Aired 7-8a ET

Aired April 12, 2025 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:00:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

VICTOR BLACKWELL, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to "CNN THIS MORNING." Saturday, April 12. I'm Victor Blackwell.

Here's what we're working on for you this morning. President Trump says that he believes something positive will come out of the escalating trade war with China. That's even as the markets and U.S. businesses are bracing for more uncertainty.

A Louisiana immigration judge has ruled that Columbia University graduate Mahmoud Khalil is deportable, but that does not mean he'll be immediately removed from the country. And there are questions over what happens next.

New this morning, the U.S. and Iran are set to hold crucial talks to try to reach a nuclear deal and ease tensions in the region. This is how the White House is approaching these talks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: That all options are on the table. And Iran has a choice to make. You can agree to President Trump's demand, or there will be all hell to pay.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: Plus, an answer to the question of what causes autism. That a promise from the H.H.S. secretary by September. We'll explain.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: And it's moving day here at the masters. And we got a star-studded leaderboard heading into round number three. Coming up, we'll preview what to expect and what's going to be another beautiful day here in Augusta.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BLACKWELL: All right. Thanks, Andy. We're starting this hour with the economy. President Trump says he's comfortable with his escalating tariff fight with China. That's despite the wild swings we've seen in U.S. and global financial markets.

All three major U.S. indices, they ended up on Friday capped off a week of turbulence, which included a historic high on Wednesday before a tumble on Thursday. Still, President Trump is projecting optimism. CNN Chief National Affairs Correspondent Jeff Zeleny has more for us. Jeff?

JEFF ZELENY, CNN NATIONAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: Victor, at the end of one of the most tumultuous weeks here yet in this new Trump administration, confidence is clearly shaken in the United States. That is clear in the bond markets. Some investors are turning elsewhere to Germany and other markets as a safe haven. The dollar certainly is weakening, even as stocks were very mixed throughout the week. American consumer confidence is down to one of its lowest levels since the 1950s. We asked the White House why.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ZELENY: Why is American consumer confidence so low?

LEAVITT: Look, I think there's a great optimism in this economy, great optimism for the American people. A lot of reasons for people to feel optimistic. The president is, as I just said, trying to renegotiate the global trade agenda that has ripped off the American people for far too long. As he said, this is going to be a period of transition. Trust in President Trump. He knows what he's doing.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ZELENY: Trust the president on the economy. That was the central message that the White House press secretary had for us on Friday. There is no doubt President Trump was elected to bring down the cost of goods to stabilize the economy. All of that is very much an open question now.

So, even as the president flew to his Mar-a-Lago resort on Friday after spending about four hours or so at the Walter Reed Medical facility, getting his annual physical, the president clearly so much on his plate. He set aside his tariff policy, as we know, for 90 days. But many of those negotiations are underway, even as the trade war with China remains front and center in all of this.

Who will blink? President Trump? President Xi Jinping? Or neither? There is no doubt heading into this weekend big challenges for the president, the American people, and so much more. Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right, Jeff, thank you. President Trump is highlighting his relationship with China, calling Chinese President Xi Jinping a very smart leader. And that was after she reacted to the escalating trade war between the two countries and placed retaliatory tariffs on U.S. goods at 125 percent.

CNN Correspondent Mike Valerio is with us now. Mike, good morning to you. What are you hearing there?

MIKE VALERIO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Victor, you know what we are hearing, we are waiting for more indications on what is going to happen early in the week in this corner of the world. We're specifically going to be looking at Xi Jinping's travels to Malaysia, Vietnam and Cambodia. You know, Victor, we were talking about potential countermeasures in the last hours with you that China could employ because it signaled on Friday that it's going to stop its tariffs against the United States at 125 percent.

[07:05:07]

It's not going to go any higher. So, we are watching this trip that Xi Jinping is going to make to Vietnam, Malaysia, and Cambodia in the early part of next week towards the tail end of it, to see if a countermeasure is rallying more regional neighbors to his cause against the United States. Sort of trying to whip public opinion -- geopolitical opinion in his favor. So, you know, let's go to a graphic that furthers Beijing's -- our window into Beijing's thinking when they're talking about how they're going to meet this moment.

You know, the commerce ministry in Beijing saying in part "If the U.S. insists on continuing this numbers game with tariffs, China will not engage." Meaning it's not going to make its tariffs go any higher. However, if the U.S. persists in substantively harming China's interests, China will resolutely take countermeasures or those countermeasures and fight to the end.

So, countermeasures like we talked about last hour could include China, a huge market for U.S. agricultural goods, specifically in red states. Not buying those goods from red states anymore, buying from Bric economies like Brazil, South Africa. Economies that are friendlier to China, leaving the U.S. out of that huge market. Potentially dumping its treasury notes, treasury bonds, treasury bills which is -- which are huge underpinning of the United States financial system.

Still, though, President Trump on Air Force One sounding at least publicly pretty optimistic about making a deal with China. Let's listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I've always gotten along well with President Xi. We had a good relationship, very good. And I think something positive is going to come out of it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are you done with that level? Their last response I think brought theirs -- (INAUDIBLE)

TRUMP: We're going to see what happens. I mean, look, China is a -- it's a very big, great country. He's a very good leader and very smart leader.

(END VIDEO CLIP) VALERIO: So final thought, as we wrap up here, Victor, another thing we're hearing from this Time Zone -- from this specific corner of the world, Tokyo and Seoul, already feeling the effects of these tariffs because, you know, a lot of those tariffs that were instituted on April 2, that big poster board in the rose garden, most of them are on hold, with the exception of China. But when we're talking about tariffs on cars, steel and aluminum, those tariffs are in effect. And those tariffs hit car exporters. Think Hyundai, Kia, Honda Toyota.

So, if they start depressing the number of cars that they export to the port of L.A., New York, New Jersey, that could diminish supplies at U.S. dealerships. Cars are going to get expensive. You know, if there are fewer cars that dealerships have access to across the country, that could also work to pressure prices higher. So, in this corner of the world, already feeling the pain and that could reverberate back home in the coming days and weeks. Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right. Mike Valerio reporting for us. Thank you. Talk about feeling the pain. Small business owners are among the hardest hit by these tariffs.

Listen, they saw the writing on the wall, but some say that they just were not prepared for the tariffs to be this high. Lindsey Johnson owns the Weezie Towel company. And she's with me now.

Lindsey, good morning to you. Let's start here. Your towels. I was on the website this morning. They are beautiful.

It says made in Portugal. Now, the elevated tariffs on the EU imports, those are paused for now, facing the ten percent that most of the world is facing. But how much has that? And this kind of looming threat of a potential return to those higher tariffs, how much is that costing you?

LINDSEY JOHNSON, FOUNDER, WEEZIE TOWELS: Thank you, Victor. We have experienced increased tariffs across the board. So, while the vast majority of our product is manufactured in the EU, we do have a global diversified supply chain. So, we are feeling it across the board.

We have the highest quality products. We're trying to source luxury towels from one manufacturer, luxury toiletry bags from another bath, slippers from another, shower curtains from another. So, you know, the supply chain we have is very diversified, and therefore, we're experiencing tariffs across the board.

BLACKWELL: Yes. And so, you're experiencing this across the board. And I wonder as you listen to the president and say there's a 90-day pause, can you plan for the rest of the quarter -- for the rest of the year with this question mark of what will happen in July?

JOHNSON: As a small business, we really are operating in the here and now. And amidst all of the uncertainty, it is difficult to plan you know, one or -- one year or two years out. So right now, with the 90- day pause in effect, we are evaluating how quickly we can get some of our goods here before the tariffs take effect. So, we're really having to pivot. So, the forecasts that we planned at the beginning of the year and last year are really no longer viable. So, we're having to reforecast our demand and think about how our consumers might be affected by the increased tariffs and the potential looming recession.

[07:10:20]

BLACKWELL: Have you had to raise your prices so far?

JOHNSON: We have not yet raised our prices, but it's something we're actively considering doing, as I think all small businesses must do right now because unfortunately, you know, we don't have the same deep pockets that many corporations have. So, it's very hard for us to absorb the price increases. So, we are absolutely looking at every single product and trying to understand where we can actually pass the part of the price onto the consumer.

But, of course, that comes with the -- you know, the fear that the consumer might not come along with us, right? There are certain products that we sell. We are a luxury business, and we already have a premium price. And so, it's really hard to predict, you know, how much we can really pass on to the consumer without affecting our ultimate demand.

BLACKWELL: Well, the president says, you know, if you don't want to face tariffs, make it here, bring the manufacturing to the United States. Is that possible for your business?

JOHNSON: For Weezie Towels, unfortunately, to get the quality that we want at the price that we -- you know, we need to be able to purchase it, it is not possible today to manufacture our products in the United States. With the exact same you know, design components, exact same quality, it is something that when we launch the business, you know, we did look to the United States, but unfortunately with the craftsmanship that we have in our product and the luxury-focused that specialty really is not in the United States at this time.

BLACKWELL: Yes. You don't want to compromise the integrity of your product, which is why people come to a luxury towel company like yours. So, I've asked you about the rest of the quarter -- the rest of the year. Has this required you to change the model of your business, the way you look at, at how you can provide this product to your customer and still be profitable long term?

JOHNSON: I think long term, it certainly could impact us. We're still really navigating, you know, the here and now, like I said. So, ultimately what long-term effects this have are unseen.

I think if anything it could affect us in terms of the products that we will decide to launch in the future, the products that we're hearing now, we might be rotating, rotating out -- rotating out of certain product lines if we're not able to source products from new countries where not as impacted by tariffs. So, for example, we do have a small part of our business that is in China, we have some business in India, Vietnam. And if we can't, you know, combat the rising prices there given the tariffs, we might just have to discontinue certain product lines.

BLACKWELL: All right. Lindsey Johnson of the Weezie Towel company, thanks so much for your time this morning.

JOHNSON: Thanks, Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right. The U.S. district judge is demanding daily updates on what the Trump administration is doing to return a man mistakenly deported to El Salvador. I.C.E. says that Kilmar Abrego Garcia is a member of the MS-13 gang. The administration later admitted that he was deported because of an administrative error, and prosecutors say they have no information on exactly where Abrego Garcia is right now.

But on Thursday, the Supreme Court ordered the Trump administration to facilitate his return. President Trump responded to that order last night on Air Force One. Watch.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If the Supreme Court said, bring somebody back, I would do that. I respect the Supreme Court.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: The president of El Salvador is expected to visit the White House and meet with the president on Monday. A Louisiana immigration judge has ruled Columbia University graduate Mahmoud Khalil can be deported. Khalil is a legal permanent resident. He was arrested last month after participating in protests against Israel's war with Hamas.

The federal government submitted a memo from Secretary of State Marco Rubio saying that Khalil is deportable because of his beliefs, statements, or associations that could compromise U.S. foreign policy interests. One of Khalil's attorneys railed against the judge's ruling and promised to keep challenging it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARC VAN DER HOUT, ATTORNEY: It was the epitome of the lack of due process in a court proceeding in this country. It was shocking. The immigration judge had made up her mind before the hearing even started what she was going to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: CNN's Gloria Pazmino has been following this case and has the latest for us. Good morning to you, Gloria.

GLORIA PAZMINO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right. Good morning, Victor. It's important to remember that despite the Louisiana judge's order saying that she believes that Khalil is deportable from the United States, it's unlikely that he is going to be deported any time soon. The reason for that is because his attorneys have made it clear they plan to appeal her decision.

[07:15:05]

Another thing that's really important to remember here is that there are two parallel cases unfolding besides each other. They have the immigration case in Louisiana, which we heard about this week. And then there's also the federal case in New Jersey. That case is centered on the legality of Khalil's detention. His attorneys are contesting that, asking that judge to consider releasing him on bail while his immigration case plays out.

Now, in terms of the next steps here, we are waiting to try and learn a little bit more about how this appeal process is going to work. But the judge's ruling is extremely important and significant because she said that she was relying on the foreign policy memo that Marco Rubio issued as evidence in this case.

The Secretary of State issued a memo saying that he found Khalil to be deportable because of his activities. That was a reference to the fact that he participated in protests on the campus of Columbia University last year. That is what Khalil's attorneys have focused on, to say that he is being persecuted here for his political speech, something that is protected by the First Amendment, not just for U.S. citizens, but also permanent legal residents, which Khalil is one.

In the meantime, what his attorneys have been most focused on is trying to get him released from detention. He remains there in Louisiana for now until they can appeal this decision, or until the judge in New Jersey decides that he will consider the motion that they have filed in his court to have Khalil released from detention. Victor.

BLACKWELL: All right. Gloria, thank you. Coming up, and first of all, my conversation with two members of Mahmoud Khalil's legal team. That's coming up in the next hour.

The Trump administration has declared thousands of immigrants dead, despite their being very much alive. Coming up, how the administration hopes this will force those immigrants out of the country. Plus, the U.S. Is increasing pressure on Iran to reach a nuclear deal. We'll take a closer look at the negotiations and the military action hanging over Iran.

Plus, federal investigators are searching the Hudson River, the scene of a fatal helicopter crash. The key pieces of the aircraft that divers are trying to recover.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:22:27]

BLACKWELL: The Trump administration is taking a new step now to pressure certain immigrants to leave the U.S. It is cutting off their access to work and benefits. It involves the Social Security Administration, and a database typically used to track people who are dead. CNN's Rene Marsh has more on what this means and who is being targeted. RENE MARSH, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Victor, this dramatic move to mark these individuals dead when they're very much alive is intended to financially starve these immigrants. Cutting off their ability to work legally, receive various government benefits, and access financial services like credit and bank accounts. A White House spokeswoman told CNN in a statement that President Trump promised mass deportations. And by removing the monetary incentive for illegal aliens to come and stay, we encourage them to self-deport.

And that is what the administration is hoping that by cutting off these immigrants financially, they will choose to leave the country. And this is part of the administration's larger mission to crack down on migrants in the country. Now, a White House official told CNN that the immigrants in question here are on the terror watch list or have FBI criminal records making them ineligible for social security benefits. But they didn't provide any evidence to support that claim.

We should note that immigrants receive social security numbers when they are authorized to work legally in the U.S. This new policy is impacting immigrants who have social security numbers and may have entered the U.S. under programs like the Biden administration's temporary work program. But we should point out this latest move is just another example of a larger effort by the administration and at the agency level, by DOGE to access personal information in government data systems to help the Trump administration in its immigration enforcement effort. And that is something that we can say we have not seen before. Victor?

BLACKWELL: Certainly, have not. Rene Marsh. Thanks. Iran's foreign minister says that it's aiming for an initial understanding with the U.S. that could open the door for formal talks about its nuclear program. The talks to reach a nuclear deal are happening today between the U.S. and Iran in Jordan. I think they're actually in Oman, in Muscat there.

President Trump says that Iran must never get a nuclear weapon and is warning of military action if talks fail. Iran warns any attack could spark a broader conflict in the Middle East. Joining me now from London is CNN's Salma Abdelaziz. Salma, good morning to you. What's the latest?

[07:25:02]

SALMA ABDELAZIZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Victor, consider these really talks about talks. What you're seeing take place in Oman today is essentially these two sides coming together if they do face-to-face for the first time in a decade. So, this is simply the opening gambit.

Mediators are going to be trying to find out if there's even space for a negotiation after you remember, of course, President Trump pulled out of the initial Iran nuclear deal, the JCPOA, during his previous administration in 2018, leaving Iran, of course, with a great deal of mistrust. I want you to hear from Iran's foreign minister on how he sees these talks from some sound that we just received. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) ABBAS ARAGHCHI, IRAN FOREIGN MINISTER (through a translator): We participated with the necessary seriousness. Our intention is to reach a fair and honorable agreement from a position of equality. If the other side has entered with the same approach, then, God willing, there will be a chance for a preliminary understanding that could lead to a negotiated path.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ABDELAZIZ: Now, the issue with that, Victor is that President Trump has threatened war on Iran if it doesn't reach a deal. So, very much, he wields the stick while his envoy, Steve Witkoff, will be in Oman today wielding the carrot. He does have incentives to offer Iran, which include loosening sanctions on the country that would provide it with some economic relief that it desperately needs.

You're also going to hear from the Trump administration that this is the time to strike a deal because they believe that Iran is essentially weakened because of its proxies around the Middle East receiving attacks. You're talking about Hezbollah, Hamas, the Houthis in Yemen, all of those, of course, now at a weaker state. But Iran says it will not negotiate under threat. So, all eyes on Oman to see if there are some bridges to be found here.

BLACKWELL: Salma Abdelaziz joining us from London, thank you. So, DEI, as you know, has become a popular scapegoat for a long list of problems in the U.S. Well, coming up, hear from black pilots who are concerned about the escalating campaign against diversity in the aviation industry. And the Masters tournament, it's in full swing at Augusta National. We'll take you there live for a look at the leaderboard.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:31:41]

BLACKWELL: Investigators are working to figure out what caused a helicopter crash into the Hudson River on Thursday. A pilot and a family of five visiting from Spain died in that crash.

It was caught on camera, and we have to warn you that this is going to be disturbing to watch. Witnesses say that they saw the helicopter, spinning out of control in the air before ultimately, it just dropped from the sky.

The debris from the crash landed across the river. Dive teams recovered parts of the helicopter on Friday, and right now, federal investigators are actively reviewing the helicopters maintenance records.

Crews are still looking for the key pieces, like the transmission, the roof, the tail of the helicopter.

One Mississippi flight school, founded by the organization of black aerospace professionals, could have the key to fixing the nation's pilot shortage, but anti-diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts on the federal level could stop that from happening.

CNN's Pete Muntean went to the flight school to talk with pilots at odds with the president's DEI or anti-DEI campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PETE MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: You're witnessing something pretty special here. The pilot of that airplane makes up a very small sliver of aviation.

But here at this flight school outside of Memphis, they're on the cutting edge of changing that.

MUNTEAN (voice over): They are training black pilot after black pilot. It is so critical to fixing a shortage of pilots nationwide.

MUNTEAN: Hey, that looked pretty good. How's that feel?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It felt great.

MUNTEAN: Yes?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It always feels great. I like flying.

MUNTEAN (voice over): Tee Frisby is a flight attendant now, training at Luke Weathers Flight Academy to become a commercial pilot.

TEE FRISBY, STUDENT, LUKE WEATHERS FLIGHT ACADEMY: I had to go out there and find my community. You have to get a support system and meet people and have mentors, and that's made all the difference.

MUNTEAN: Did you know anybody coming up who was a pilot already, but beyond like meeting people at the airline like, did you -- did you -- did you see anybody like you?

FRISBY: No, no, didn't see anyone like me. Had never seen a black female pilot for, you know, well into my adulthood.

MUNTEAN (voice over): Nationwide, less than five percent of professional pilots are black, in a workforce that's dominated by white men.

This flight school was created by the Organization of Black Aerospace Professionals, founded nearly 50 years ago to promote diversity in aviation. Yet, DEI has been under attack by the second Trump administration from day one.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. President, to be clear, are you saying race or gender played a role in this tragedy?

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It may have. I don't know.

MUNTEAN: What went through your head when President Trump said after the midair collision near national airport that, that was the direct result of diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts at the FAA? How did that make you feel?

TENNESSEE GARVEY, BOARD CHAIR, ORGANIZATION OF BLACK AEROSPACE PROFESSIONALS: It gives people the perception that DEI initiatives or DEI programs are compromised in aviation safety, when the reality is they are not, because that's not what DEI is.

DEI is all about allowing people access to certain opportunities. And right now, DEI has been weaponized, and, you know, anything that you know looks or feels or even smells like a Diversity, Equity, Inclusion, it's under attack.

[07:35:03]

MUNTEAN: Do diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts on hiring at the airlines, does that change anything when it comes to qualifications?

GARVEY: There is no changing of the standard. The training program for anyone, irrespective of your skin color, your background, complexion, your creed. Everyone has to go through the same training process. For --

(CROSSTALK)

MUNTEAN: And the airplane doesn't know the difference?

GARVEY: And the airplane definitely does not know the difference.

MUNTEAN (voice over): 63 people are enrolled in this flight school that's turning out pilots. Since it opened six years ago, students have earned a total of 170 pilot certificates, all new workers bound for an industry facing a critical shortage of pilots.

ALBERT GLENN, CO-DIRECTOR, LUKE WEATHERS FLIGHT ACADEMY: The business community needs it, whether they say it out loud or not. They need a diverse workforce, because that's where the market is going to come from. It can't be just left. I hope they show up.

They've decided they want to be airline pilots or military pilots or air traffic control. You don't want them to lose it because they hear that people are not wanting to work with them.

That DEI is an issue, that under qualified and poor performance and all these things, they just want a fair opportunity to be able to get a job and live their life, and that's the way we teach them.

FRISBY: I took that first discovery flight. I felt that feeling in my gut like I was in tears. I called my dad. I was like, I'm in love. And he's like, who did you meet? I was like, no, we're flying. I got to fly planes now.

And yes, I didn't really think about it, but it's I'm noticing how impactful my journey is because, yes, there is not a lot of representation.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BLACKWELL: Pete Muntean, thanks for that story.

Still to come, Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy, Jr. claims that new research will determine the cause of what he calls the autism epidemic in just the next six months, critics wonder if the result will be honest.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:41:51]

BLACKWELL: For years, Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Junior has tried to link autism to vaccines, despite study after study debunking that myth.

Well, now, he's ordering a massive new study to learn the cause of what he calls an autism epidemic, and Kennedy claims that he should have the answer by September.

CNN's Meg Tirrell, explains why most medical experts are skeptical. Meg?

MEG TIRRELL, CNN MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, the response from scientists and the autism community was really incredulity that a study that would be rigorous and large and would seek true answers here really could be done in just five months.

There is also skepticism that this is being undertaken in good faith, both because of RFK junior's past comments about the causes of autism and falsely linking them to vaccines.

But also, a comment that President Trump made in response to this announcement from Kennedy. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: If you can come up with that answer where you stop taking something, you stop eating something, or maybe it's a shot, but something is causing it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TIRRELL (voice over): So, President Trump there, saying, "maybe it's a shot." It's important to note that dozens of studies have shown no relationship between vaccines and autism.

And vaccine scientist Dr. Paul Offit, writing the morning after this announcement. "It doesn't take a psychic to see where this is going." He pointed out there have been two dozen studies specifically on the measles, mumps, rubella vaccine showing that children who get that vaccine are no more likely to be diagnosed with autism, that children who don't get that vaccine.

And in fact, the National Institutes of Health, which is expected to be involved in this study, says on its web site, "No link has been found between autism and vaccines, including those containing thimerosal, a mercury-based compound." It is true, however, that autism rates have been rising over time. Back in 2,000 the rate was about one in 150 kids in the United States, who were diagnosed with autism. That rate by 2020 had risen to one in 36 kids. And RFK Junior suggested we are about to see new data that will show it's up to one in 31 kids.

So, that is a precipitous rise, but what advocates and researchers say is that a lot of that is driven by better diagnoses and a better understanding and a more inclusive understanding of what autism is.

So, improved screening tools and processes and earlier detection, all of those are really driving these rates higher.

There is also been a lot of research into what the drivers of autism are. Some of them are thought to be genetic. There are also thought to be potential environmental factors.

However, experts point out that among the best studied are vaccines. And despite past comments from Robert F. Kennedy Jr., falsely linking the two, there is no evidence suggesting that vaccines are the culprit here.

So, we will see where this study ends up by September. But a lot of folks worried that not only will it have a pre-ordained and false finding, but that it could further stigmatize the autism community, who really would rather see inclusion and support.

[07:45:04]

BLACKWELL: All right. Meg Tirrell, thank you.

"Real Time" host, Bill Maher is talking about a dinner he had with President Trump. Now, on his show last night, Maher described the president as engaging, willing to absorb his opinions and even if it was different than his own. Watch this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BILL MAHER, HOST, REAL TIME WITH BILL MAHER, HBO: Just for starters, he laughs. I'd never seen him laugh in public, but he does, including it himself, and it's not fake.

Believe me, as a comedian of 40 years, I know a fake laugh when I hear it. And I thank you for that.

Example, in the Oval Office, he was showing me the portraits of presidents, and he pointed to Reagan. And said, in all seriousness, you know, the best thing about him his hair.

I said, well, there was also that whole bringing down communism thing, waiting for the button next to the diet coke button to get pushed, and I go through the trap door.

But no, he laughed. He got it.

Look, I get it. It doesn't matter who he is at a private dinner with a comedian. It matters who he is on the world stage. I'm just taking as a positive that this person exists.

Because everything I've ever not liked about him was, I swear to God, absent, at least on this night with this guy.

I never felt I had to walk on eggshells around him, and honestly, I voted for Clinton and Obama, but I would never feel comfortable talking to them the way I was able to talk with Donald Trump. That's just how it went down. Make of it, what you will.

Me, I feel it's emblematic of why the Democrats are so unpopular these days.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BLACKWELL: You can watch the full episode of Real Time with Bill Maher Tonight at 8pm right here on CNN.

Round three of play begins in a matter of hours at Augusta National, and there is a tight race for the top spot. We'll have all your highlights from the Masters in a live report. That's next.

But first, a couple from Oregon. They are working to keep books from ending up in landfills, and they're doing it all right from their garage. That's today's "START SMALL, THINK BIG".

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MICHELLE SANDERS, OWNER, ATTIC JOURNALS: Portland is renowned for recycling. We're also a port, so all books west of the Mississippi come to Portland to be converted into fodder for paper towels and toilet paper. All books come here to die.

At Attic Journals, we make journals, garlands and jewelry out of discarded books. When I had the opportunity to save books professionally, it felt like I was living into my highest calling. We never interrupt literacy. We always interrupt landfill.

Whether that's working with schools and libraries to help them get their books recycled. Or it's us standing at the cusp of the landfill, pulling books out. Miguel does it every week.

MIGUEL SALINAS, HUSBAND OF MICHELLE SANDERS: Every week I go there, by -- and I pick the book like it.

SANDERS: We are trying desperately to use up every bit of the book. We're not just taking the covers and throwing everything else out. We're committed to the entire book. The pages get made into product. The library cards that we find inside get made into product.

The Journals are the best sellers, and within those, it's always the beloved Nancy Drew.

Our necklaces are quite popular because people like finding them for their birthdays, their anniversaries. The floppy disks made into notepads have become wildly popular in the last few years. The other thing that's important to note is that if you have a book at home that you're emotionally attached to. We can make that into your journal.

You can find our products on our web site, at addictjournals.com, and then, we partner with a number of retailers around the world, 280 of them, to be exact. We don't do this for sport. This is our heart.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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[07:53:01]

BLACKWELL: Third round of play gets underway in a few hours at Augusta National. The leaderboard is crowded. CNN's Andy Scholes joins us live from Augusta.

Big smile, great place to be this weekend. Andy, what do you seeing?

ANDY SCHOLES, CNN SPORTS ANCHOR: Victor, it is going to be just beautiful today and tomorrow here in Augusta. And the way the leaderboard is sitting right now. I mean, we could be in for one fantastic weekend.

And one of the big story lines coming into this tournament was with this finally be The Masters that Rory McIlroy breaks through, and gets that green jacket to complete the career grand slam.

Wasn't looking great after round number one where he shot even par with two boat double bogeys. But Rory, the round of the day yesterday, he went six under, including an eagle on 13, where he had to hit it out of the pine straw. Rory climbing all the way up to tie that for third. And I asked him after his round what was his mindset now, compared to after round one.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RORY MCILROY, FOUR-TIME MAJOR WINNER: Not as frustrated, obviously. But -- I mean, it's only -- it's only halfway. You know, we've got 36 holes to go on a very, very tough golf course.

Anything can happen, you know, and all I'm focused on is trying to hit a good tee shot on the -- in the fairway on the first hole.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: Yes, Rory. Two back of your leader, Justin Rose. He just tries to end his major drought. That's now more than a decade Raining champ, Scottie Scheffler, he had an up and down day yesterday.

Sits at five under three shots back. Bryson DeChambeau. Meanwhile, another good round, going four under, he's in second, and he says, well, he's pumped for what's to come.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BRYSON DECHAMBEAU, TWO-TIME MAJOR WINNER: I'm going to keep it simple. I'm excited. Very excited for the weekend. This is what golf is about. Got a lot of great names up there, and looking forward to an unbelievable test of golf.

SCOTTIE SCHEFFLER, TWO-TIME MASTERS CHAMPION: We got a great golf course condition.

[07:55:00]

It should be really good. Challenging, and we got some great guys on top of leaderboard. So, it should be -- it should be a fun weekend.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCHOLES: And finally, we did have a really funny moment on Scottie's last hole yesterday. He went way left off the tee shot, ended up under this magnolia tree. Well, he decided, you know, climb in there to punch it out. But while he was waiting, you know, Scottie, he is six- foot three. So, he decided to just take a seat and sit under that tree.

He ended up bogeying that that whole Victor, but Scottie giving everyone on the internet a funny meme. And hey, if he wins that tournament, it's going to be legendary, looking like he was just sitting in time out weighing here on 18.

(CROSSTALK)

BLACKWELL: Yes. You go sit over there and think about what you've done on this hole. Andy Scholes, thanks so much.

SCHOLES: Yes.

BLACKWELL: All right. "FIRST OF ALL," is coming up at the top of the hour. There's a new survey of how consumers feel about the economy, confirms the vibes are off, and we know that the impact is disproportionately felt by people of color, trying to save for the future.

I'll ask entrepreneur John Hope Bryant if he sees a way forward.

Plus, members of Mahmoud Khalil's legal team are here to react to a judge, saying that the pro-Palestinian activist can be kicked out of the country over his views.

And later, a devastating development in the story of 17-year-old Victor Perez. He is a teenager with autism shot by police multiple times by holding a knife in his backyard.

We'll walk you through the video showing what happened, and that moment, when the men who called 911, approached his family to apologize. That's ahead on "FIRST OF ALL," it's after a quick break.

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