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Pope Francis Dies at Age 88. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired April 21, 2025 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Audie Cornish in Washington.

[06:01:28]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm John Berman in New York. And we do begin the morning with breaking news.

Pope Francis, the first pope born in Latin America, a man who has transformed the church, passed away overnight at the age of 88.

CORNISH: Now, his death comes just one day after he surprised followers with an Easter appearance in St. Peter's Square. And just weeks after he spent 38 days in the hospital battling pneumonia.

I want to bring in Christopher Lamb, CNN Vatican correspondent, who is live in Rome.

Christopher, what more can you tell us after this announcement this morning?

CHRISTOPHER LAMB, CNN VATICAN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Audie, as I'm speaking to you now, the bells of St. Peter's have been ringing out, marking the death of Pope Francis. You can hear them now as they ring at midday, noontime.

The square has gone quiet. There's now a somber, prayerful atmosphere as people pay their respects to Pope Francis, who died this morning at 7:35 a.m., Rome time.

Now, there's a lot of sadness amongst people here in St. Peter's, because Francis was a hugely popular pope. He was the people's pontiff, in many ways. He, yesterday on Easter Sunday, got into the popemobile and, despite clearly not being 100 percent well, got around the square and the popemobile greeting people.

It was clear, from looking at him, that he was not himself. He has, of course -- he had, of course, been dealing with double pneumonia, and he came close to death during a 38-day hospitalization.

But this morning, the news was announced by Cardinal Kevin Farrell, who is the camerlengo, who has the job of overseeing the process of certifying the death of a pope. He announced that news.

Cardinal Farrell is the former bishop of Dallas in the United States. He's Irish-born but a U.S. naturalized citizen. He announced that death this morning.

Now, I think for many people, Francis was a very accessible pope. He was a pope who wanted the church to go out to the people. He didn't want the church to stay stuck in its gilded basilicas. He didn't want a church that projected an image of being remote or being disconnected.

He wanted a church that connected with people. And his big focuses were on things such as migration. He was a strong advocate for the plight of migrants.

His first visit out of Rome was to the island of Lampedusa, to show his solidarity with the people risking their lives from North Africa to arrive on the island of Lampedusa.

He was also a tireless advocate for the poor, the poorest in society. He wanted, he said, a poor church for the poor. He himself did not live in the palace of the popes behind me, but in the guesthouse of the Casa Santa Marta, where the news of his death was announced this morning.

This guest house is a simple residence for people who come to Rome on church business, and it's also used for cardinals before they elect a pope in a conclave.

But Francis decided to remain in that guesthouse, to adopt a simple lifestyle. He's often seen in a simple Ford car, rather than a big SUV or a big motorcade. That was very important to him. He wanted a church that served, that was poor, that was humble.

[06:05:17]

Also, a tireless advocate for the environment. He wrote a very important encyclical on the importance of protecting the environment.

He, of course, was the first pope from Latin America and the first pope to call himself after Saint Francis of Assisi, a saint who was known for his radical commitment to poverty, to care for creation, and to dialog with other faiths.

Now, Francis was one of those popes, I think, who will be remembered for a long time. There is a strong sense of sadness, a somber atmosphere in St. Peter's. The people come to terms with the news that Pope Francis has died.

CORNISH: And, Christopher, we're going to pause for a moment and hear those bells ringing out.

(BELLS RINGING)

CORNISH: Those bells, of course, ringing over the death of Pope Francis.

Christopher, I want to follow up on something you mentioned. You mentioned the camerlengo and the cardinal from Dallas. Can you talk about the role of that figure in the next couple of days? Because of course, there's going to be a funeral. And how will this process work?

LAMB: That's right. Cardinal Farrell has a very important role now as camerlengo. He effectively is running the Catholic Church's central administration during this period between the papal interregnum, the period between two popes.

So, Cardinal Farrell will effectively be in charge of the day-to-day running of the Vatican. He has limited powers in the sense he can't just act like a pope, but he is effectively keeping the administration going during that time.

He is also the one who was tasked with certifying the death of the pope this morning and, of course, overseeing the prayers, the -- the liturgy that takes place when a pope dies. We're expecting the arrangements be put in place for people to pay their respects to Pope Francis.

Pope Francis, before he died, did simplify the papal funeral rituals. Things will be simpler. There won't be -- he won't be laid out in state in the same way that his predecessor, Benedict, was. He'll be laid in a coffin, an open casket for people to pay their tributes to.

And Cardinal Farrell will be tasked with overseeing that.

So, at this moment, a former bishop of Dallas, a U.S. citizen, is -- a cardinal, is effectively running the Catholic Church's central administration during this time, as the camerlengo of the Roman Curia.

CORNISH: And of course, I'm even hearing that the pope has a simpler plan for his coffin. And I think it just talks about -- it says something about how much of the trappings of the papacy he rejected in order to have this sort of -- this -- this theology of mercy.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- has spoken.

LAMB: Well, mercy was really at the center point of Francis's ministry. He called for a more compassionate and merciful approach to divorced and remarried Catholics. He wanted to allow them to return to receiving the sacraments.

He also pioneered or insisted on a different approach to LGBTQ+ Catholics. He offered blessings to same-sex couples. He was the pope who said, "Who am I to judge?" when he was asked about a gay priest.

So, he really shifted the conversation on that in a very dramatic way. I mean, before Francis, a number of documents from the Vatican had been released on homosexuality, which really caused a lot of hurt to gay people.

And Francis shifted that in a profound way during his pontificate, because he believed in the importance of emphasizing mercy. He said, the name of God is mercy. And he would often say to people, it's not God who gets tired of forgiving, but people who get tired of asking for forgiveness.

He -- it was all part of that desire for -- from the pope, for the church to go out to -- into the world, to be less constrained by some of the customs that he felt could be restricting the church.

[06:10:02]

He wanted to say that the Catholic Church was open to everyone, and that was something that he repeatedly emphasized.

And he did make some profound changes to the makeup of the College of Cardinals. Now, they are the group who will be tasked with electing the next pope. And Francis dramatically internationalized that body.

I mean, he never told anyone who he was going to make a cardinal before he announced moves to announce them from the balcony of the Apostolic Palace. And he would choose -- he's chosen cardinals from different parts of the world, such as Tonga, Haiti, Central African Republic, Mongolia, not the usual places.

CORNISH: Right.

LAMB: So, that will be fascinating as we get closer to another papal election.

CORNISH: OK. That's CNN's Christopher Lamb. I want to turn it over to you, John, in New York.

BERMAN: All right. Thanks so much, Audie.

With us now is Father Patrick Mary Briscoe. He's the editor of a Catholic newspaper out of Columbus, Ohio.

Father, thank you so much for being with us this morning. And I know it is a solemn morning for Catholics around the world. Give us your thoughts on the passing of Pope Francis: what his papacy meant.

FATHER PATRICK MARY BRISCOE, EDITOR, "OUR SUNDAY VISITOR": Good morning, John.

Yes. I'm sorry to be with you on this occasion, to be sure. All of us Catholics throughout the world, people of goodwill, are joining us in praying for the peaceful repose of pope.

It's an astonishing thing to wake up just after having celebrated Easter, the beautiful highlight of our Church's liturgical year, to -- to wake up and find this news about the death of our spiritual leader. It's a very, very tragic first day of the Easter season.

So, I think many Catholics are feeling what I felt this morning, which is a combination of sorrow and, frankly, of shock, because we had been seeing such a recovery, such a notable and marked recovery of Pope Francis's good health.

So, our -- our immediate response as a church to this news, of course, is great sorrow and praying for Pope Francis, for his peaceful repose, and in gratitude for his ministry and his leadership of our church.

BERMAN: He was a champion of the poor. He was a champion of migrants around the world. What changes do you think he brought to the church that will endure?

BRISCOE: One of the marks of Pope Francis's papacy is that he believed that God was a God of surprises. He said this often, and he would say it with a bit of a smile sometimes. And Pope Francis himself was certainly a man of great surprises. We saw many surprises.

So, I think we -- we ought not be too shocked, then, that we would be surprised, even by the way that he died, which is very different from the passing of Pope Saint John Paul II, where all of us watched for -- for days and where we -- where we were really prepared.

I think Pope Francis's death, in this hidden way, is something that reflects the way that he took on, the way that he shouldered, the way that he carried the Petrine Ministry, which was in a more hidden way.

Pope Francis's papacy, of course, is marked by these -- this notable trend to simplicity: the many ways he simplified the papal office, the many ways he reached out and emphasized, especially, the care of the poor, the stewardship of the earth. With documents like "Laudato Si," encouraging Catholics to take seriously a call to a renewed environmental stewardship.

Pope Francis also had a deep spirituality that -- that came through in many -- in many notable ways. Because he was a member of the Society of Jesus, he was especially devoted to the sacred heart of Jesus. And so, this -- this spiritual turn, the spiritual emphasis of Pope Francis came to renew, I think, a lot of traditional devotion, actually, in many people.

And that -- that that was another surprise from the papacy of Pope Francis.

I think today, many Catholics will -- will be -- will be mourning his loss. Certainly, will -- will be praying for him but -- but also are looking towards the future.

Just this weekend in Rome, there was supposed to be a great celebration, the canonization of Carlo Acutis. But many of these things on Rome will be on hold, will be reorganized because, of course, the whole church now, the whole church now has to pause and to mourn and to -- and to -- to share the legacy of our late Holy Father, of the late Pope Francis.

BERMAN: Father, stand by for just a moment, because we're seeing these images of St. Peter's Square, listening to the bells ringing there, watching these people in mourning the day after they were there celebrating Easter. Just stay with us one second, Father.

(BELLS RINGING)

BERMAN: Father, you mentioned the Society of Jesus. Of course. Pope Francis, the first Jesuit pope. Also, the first pope from Latin America, the global South, as it were. And in so many ways shifting the focus, I think of the church, perhaps, Southward.

[06:15:16] That is where the church seems to be growing the most. What will that legacy be?

BRISCOE: Undoubtedly, Pope Francis was very attentive to the needs of the church in the global South. And you can look at all the data; and you can see what's been happening in Latin America, what's been happening in Africa.

This decentralization of the church by Pope Francis, by choosing cardinals, for example, from the far corners of the world, certainly has changed the way that the leadership of the church speaks about the church. It's a look -- a look wide.

Pope Francis always spoke of going to the margins, to the peripheries, to bring in those who are less engaged, but with an apostolic zeal, an evangelical zeal. That means that Pope Francis wanted people to know Jesus and to become Catholic. He really had an outward focus and a great love for the church.

That was one of his first documents, in fact, was called "The Joy of the Gospel," John. And I think a lot of people, when they remember Pope Francis, will remember, especially those early days.

Again, we've been talking about this news as coming as a great shock. The pope made many public appearances lately, presenting himself. Of course, he -- he met with the vice president of the United States, with Vice President J.D. Vance.

So -- so the news again, really, has -- has shocked the world, has taken us all -- all by great surprise here, to -- to hear this news that he's passed.

BERMAN: Father Patrick Mary Briscoe, editor of the Sunday -- "Our Sunday Visitor" out of Columbus, Ohio. I really do appreciate your words this morning, helping us understand the impact of the man, the reign of his papacy, the impact it will have for generations to come. Father, thank you.

Of course, we're all waking up to the news that, just after Easter Sunday, Pope Francis has passed away at the age of 88. A dozen years in the papacy, Audie. One that I think will be remembered for having a huge, huge impact. A very different pope, a very different papacy.

CORNISH: Yes, absolutely striking from beginning to end, given even how he came to the papacy after a surprise retirement. And ever since then, he has been off and running with changing the direction of the church in so many ways.

We're going to hear more about that today as we hear world reaction to this news. We're going to hear more from the Vatican itself, of course, as the Catholic Church mourns the death of Pope Francis.

What is going to happen next?

We're going to be back with our continuing coverage of the death of Pope Francis. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:22:38]

CORNISH: We're back now with our continuing coverage of the death of Pope Francis. Here's a live look at St. Peter's Square, where people are actually gathering after hearing the news, which was announced by Vatican officials just hours ago.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARDINAL KEVIN FARRELL, VATICAN CAMERLENGO (through translator): His whole life was dedicated to the service of the Lord and his church. He taught us to live the values of the gospel with fidelity, courage, and universal love, especially in favor of the poorest and most marginalized.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Pope Francis was 88 years old. He had been the pope for 12 years, ascending to the head of the papacy in 2013. His death marks the end of an era. So, we're going to talk about what happens next.

Live, Rome, we're going to bring in CNN senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman.

So, we know the camerlengo, the -- who is the person who is now kind of the administrative head of the Vatican, is taking things from here. Help us understand these next couple of weeks before there is that conversation about a conclave and the next pope.

BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. The chamberlain or camerlengo, Kevin Farrell. Cardinal Kevin -- Kevin Farrell was the man who announced Pope Francis's death this morning.

And his first steps are going to be to remove the papal ring from Pope Francis's finger and seal his study and department in the Casa Santa Marta, which is the spartan guesthouse that Pope Francis chose to live in, as opposed to the rather sumptuous apostolic apartments that popes normally live in.

And obviously, they haven't set a date yet for the funeral, but it is going to be, clearly, a very large event. It will take time to organize, to send out invitations, and to make preparations for that.

But in the meantime, the invitations will be going out to 250 cardinals around the world to come to Rome to attend, first, the funeral; and then, of course, there's going to be the conclave, where they will be kept in seclusion to ponder who will be the next pope, where they will be voting, perhaps repeatedly, on -- to make -- to finally come to a decision as to who will be the next pontiff.

[06:25:07]

But this is -- really, we are at the very beginning of a long and complicated process of transition from the pope, who has now passed away, to the next pope.

But obviously, this is, like I said, the beginning of a very old process that Rome has seen many times before. But at the moment, really, what we're doing, I think the people in Rome and beyond, obviously, are absorbing the shock of the news of the passing of Pope Francis, given that, of course, that he was out and about yesterday in St. Peter's Square in the popemobile yesterday.

Afterwards he did meet U.S. Vice President J.D. Vance. This -- It's a shock because, of course, he spent weeks and weeks starting in mid- February at Rome's Gemelli Hospital.

And I was there when he appeared on the balcony the day he left and then drove away, was driven away in his Fiat Cinquecento. And the assumption was he was on the mend, despite the fact he's 88 years old. Recovery -- he was recovering from double pneumonia. The assumption was that he would slowly, gradually recover from that.

Doctors had urged Pope Francis, when he left the hospital, to rest, not to overexert himself. But clearly, this was a pontiff who insisted, as much as he physically could, to resume his normal activities -- Audie.

CORNISH: Yes, and, of course, did so on Easter Sunday when he offered that blessing and also met with the vice president, J.D. Vance.

So, as you said, despite him being in ill health for so many of these weeks and even recent years, it still was a surprise to many because of those high-profile appearances yesterday.

Ben Wedeman, thanks so much. We'll be following with you later today.

Still ahead on CNN THIS MORNING, we're going to return to Rome for more reaction to the breaking news of the death of Pope Francis.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)