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CNN This Morning
Pope Francis Now Lying in State at St. Peter's Basilica; Trump Says He Has 'No Intention of Firing' Fed Chair; Trump Says China Tariffs Will 'Come Down Substantially'. Aired 6-6:30a ET
Aired April 23, 2025 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ISA SOARES, CNN INTERNATIONAL ANCHOR: Italy has, in the last few moments, declared five days of mourning.
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And this is an opportunity for so many who were here, of course, for Easter, to pay their final respects, but also for those outside of the Christian church and faith.
I'm going to leave you now with these beautiful images. Thank you very much for joining us this morning and for special coverage of Pope Francis lying in state at St. Peter's Basilica.
CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.
AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: It is Wednesday, April 23. And here's what's happening right now on CNN THIS MORNING.
Pope Francis now lies in state at St. Peter's Basilica. And at this moment, mourners are gathering to pay their respects to the late pontiff.
Later, getting out of DOGE. Elon Musk tells Tesla shareholders he's going back to his day job soon, where profits are plunging.
And in the U.S., measles cases surging. It's now the largest single outbreak in two decades. Why it could be even worse than we know.
And later, smoke choking out parts --
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On -- smoke flooded the streets.
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CORNISH: Those wildfires double in size in parts of New Jersey. Evacuations in place, and a major highway closed for the morning commute.
It's 6 a.m. here on the East Coast. We want to give you a live look at St. Peter's Basilica, where the late Pope Francis is lying in state right now.
Good morning, everybody. I'm Audie Cornish. I want to thank you for waking up with me.
And of course, right now, we're going to talk more about the Vatican. The Catholic faithful are getting their chance to say goodbye to Pope Francis.
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CORNISH: And those are the bells tolling in St. Peter's Square as a procession led by dozens of cardinals from across the globe brought Pope Francis's coffin to St. Peter's Basilica. Now the pope was carried by officials who worked alongside him.
He was flanked by Swiss Guards, who will keep watch as he lies in state until Saturday's funeral.
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CORNISH: In a way, we're also hearing from the late pontiff himself, because he wrote a new message in February, which is just now being published.
In it, Pope Francis wrote, quote, "Death is not the end of everything, but the beginning of something."
Joining us now from Rome is CNN senior international correspondent Ben Wedeman.
Ben, the public is, of course, lining up now: their chance to get to honor both the head of state and the head of their church. Can you describe the scene as it stands this morning?
BEN WEDEMAN, CNN SENIOR INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Well, when I was coming in this morning to our location here just outside St. Peter's Square, Audie, what I saw was there are thousands of people lined up, well beyond the boundaries of the Vatican, waiting to get in to have the opportunity to see Pope Francis lying in state.
Now, the doors opened about an hour ago, and they're going to be open until midnight.
Tomorrow, they'll be opening at 7 a.m. local time. Also open until midnight, as well.
And officials expect tens of thousands, perhaps hundreds of thousands of people to file slowly, silently through St. Peter's Basilica, where they will see the body of Pope Francis in a simple wooden coffin. Unlike previous popes who would be buried in three coffins, one inside the other. One -- made of cypress, lead and ash.
So, this simple wooden coffin is really reflective of Pope Francis's belief in simplicity and humility. Now, we did have the opportunity, Audie, to speak to one young man,
32-year-old Thomas Nature from Los Angeles, who was among the first to get inside the St. Peter's Basilica and see the body of Pope Francis. This is what he said.
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THOMAS NATCHER, LOS ANGELES RESIDENT: His legacy is going to show the world that to accept everyone and to love everyone. it shows that the church is also kind of with the times, a little bit, too.
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WEDEMAN: And Italy is has announced five days of mourning to mark the death of Pope Francis, who of course, even though he was from Argentina, he was of Italian origin and Italian, with a strong Argentine accent, was his preferred language of public discourse.
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So, there's going to be five days of public mourning. The day of the funeral, Saturday at 10 a.m. local time, Italy will observe an hour of silence.
And we expect, as I said, I mean, I can see just now many people on their way into St. Peter's Square, all waiting to go inside St. Peter's Basilica to see the body of Pope Francis -- Audie.
CORNISH: Ben, we mentioned that on Saturday, it's going to be the funeral itself. Between now and then, can you talk about what we can expect world leaders arriving, cardinals gathering? What more is there to know?
WEDEMAN: Yes. In addition to, of course, all these people coming in to see the pope, world leaders, including President Trump and his wife; Prince William, the Prince of Wales. Volodymyr Zelenskyy, the president of Ukraine, will be arriving in the coming days.
And of course, the cardinals are busy preparing, A, for the funeral and, B, for the conclave. We expect them to meet this evening to make further plans.
Because once the funeral is over, the focus will shift to the question of the conclave and the very intense behind-closed-doors politicking that goes along with the process of electing a new pope.
Now, just to put it in perspective, back in 2013, the conclave only lasted for two days. There were five ballots, which resulted, of course, at the end with the election of Jorge Bergoglio, who became Pope Francis.
So, even though the -- the funeral is just one step in a long and complicated process involved in passing the baton of power, so to speak, from one pope to another -- Audie.
CORNISH: Ben, thank you so much. Ben, of course, will be reporting from Rome throughout the rest of the day.
Coming up on CNN THIS MORNING, a tariff treaty. Is President Trump ready to make a deal with China?
Plus, you might remember this interview from the 2024 election cycle: Vice President Harris sitting down with "60 Minutes." Well, after all the fallout from that moment, now a major shakeup for the show.
And everything's bigger in Texas, including the jackpot scandal, dubbed the biggest theft in the history of the state.
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The bottom line is, if people are going to have confidence in the lottery, we have to be sure that no one has an advantage.
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CORNISH: A tariff turnaround? Well, President Trump is hinting at a potential U-turn in his trade war with China.
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DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: A hundred and 45 percent is very high. And it won't be that high. It's not going to be that high. No, it won't be anywhere near that high.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What level do you think it will come down to?
TRUMP: It will come down Substantially, but it won't be zero.
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CORNISH: So, his comments are coming after sources said Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent called the back-and-forth tariffs basically unsustainable.
The president also seems to be changing his tune about Federal Reserve chair Jerome Powell, after calling him a, quote, "major loser" earlier this week.
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TRUMP: No, I have no intention of firing him. I would like to see him be a little more active in terms of his idea to lower interest rates. This is a perfect time to lower interest rates. If he doesn't, is it the end? No, it's not, but it would be good timing.
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CORNISH: OK, time to hit up the group chat: national politics reporter at "The Washington Post," Sabrina Rodriguez; White House and foreign affairs correspondent at "Politico," Eli Stokols; and CNN contributor and "New York Times" podcast host, Lulu Garcia-Navarro.
OK, you guys, thank you for coming here to help me make sense of this, because obviously, people in the markets have been really parsing everything Trump has been saying. Maybe it's getting through to him, the effects of that.
Sabrina, let's start with Powell, because he went from calling him a loser to what we heard there. I have no intention of firing him. What is your sense of that softening of rhetoric?
SABRINA RODRIGUEZ, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": I mean, the reality is we're starting to see Trump actually respond to some of the criticism, respond to some of the -- the markets tumbling in recent weeks.
CORNISH: Yes. Criticism or markets?
RODRIGUEZ: It's really the markets --
CORNISH: OK.
RODRIGUEZ: -- at the end of the day, despite what we've seen in recent weeks about him wanting to move ahead with the tariffs, despite what the markets were showing, despite what investors and major business leaders were saying.
The reality is, Trump has historically always cared about the markets. He has always cared about the approval of folks on Wall Street. Some of that might be breaking through.
But I think we have to be very cautious here, because we do know Trump to say one thing today and another thing tomorrow. So, I think he may have backed off.
CORNISH: Which is kind of the problem, right? Which is what people are saying in terms of what the secretary is talking about.
RODRIGUEZ: Yes. The uncertainty we keep seeing.
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It's markets, and its Main Street, because we're seeing, actually, effects on both.
We're seeing a lot of volatility in the markets. We're seeing, you know, the -- the stock market go up and down, the bond market. Everyone's putting their money into gold. Et cetera, et cetera.
But this is actually having tangible effects on Main Street. People are paying higher prices already. Small businesses are being affected in how they can actually bring things in, the prices that they're offering.
So, it's two things.
And the thing that I find most interesting about this is like reality, meet the president. Because the president has often said things that are not true. He will try to shape the world in the vision that he wants.
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CORNISH: But isn't that the point of "The Art of the Deal"? Like, a kind of --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: That is.
CORNISH: You're the one who creates the atmosphere. Eli, am I -- I'm not being facetious here.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: But no. But in this.
CORNISH: Yes.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: You know, markets go up, markets go down. Prices go up. I mean, this is not something that you can kind of explain --
CORNISH: Pretty soon, we're talking about real money.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: We're talking about real money.
ELI STOKOLS, WHITE HOUSE AND FOREIGN AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT, "POLITICO": It's not just the stock indexes, but it's the bond markets. And it's the -- it's other countries exchanging --
CORNISH: Which we've been talking about this week.
STOKOLS: People are taking their money --
CORNISH: The safeguard for your money.
STOKOLS: You know, Japan, like Asian indexes. You know, European markets. Those are -- people are putting their money there and taking their money out of the United States because of the uncertainty.
I think it's really the cumulative effect of all the uncertainty. You see Trump threatening basically every country in the world. I mean, talking about firing the Fed chair all at the same time.
And so, whether he ratchets down the tariffs, whether he pulls back on what he's talking about with the Fed chair, I think what people are processing is there's no certainty out there in the financial markets.
CORNISH: Right.
STOKOLS: And that's problematic. And that's what the treasury secretary, he's trying to reassure people --
CORNISH: Exactly.
STOKOLS: -- that it won't be so bad. And the president is now trying -- he seemed to be in reassuring mode, at least yesterday. CORNISH: And the highest tariffs have been on China. Right? And when
he said he was going to institute these super-high tariffs, it was like this is what's happening. We're taking a hard line.
Here's what he talked about on Tuesday when he described the negotiations actively underway with China.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are negotiations actively underway? And do you agree with Secretary Bessent, who has suggested that the current standoff with China is not sustainable?
TRUMP: We're doing fine with China. We're doing fine with every -- I think, almost every country.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: On China, are you going to play hardball with them?
TRUMP: I'm not going to say, oh, I'm going to play hardball with China. I'm going to play hardball with you, President Xi.
No, no, we're going to be very nice. They're going to be very nice. And we'll see what happens.
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CORNISH: He's kind of his own good cop, bad cop.
STOKOLS: Well, he's mocking the press as sort of a way to get past the question.
There are no talks with China that are happening. So, he can say, oh, I'm going to be nice. We're going to be nice.
I mean, ever since they ratcheted up the tariffs, he has been sort of subtly or maybe not so subtly, trying to kind of coax China to make the first move. You know, it's kind of this awkward, like, high school situation.
CORNISH: Right, right. And Xi, like Putin, is a very strong leader in his own leader.
STOKOLS: But they want China to engage. Jamie Dimon is on TV saying, like, you know, guys, we don't -- you know, it wasn't on TV. It was in an interview with "The Financial Times," saying, this doesn't have to wait. Like, this needs to happen soon.
So, I think there are a lot of cues out there on both sides saying, you know, this would be better if we could get past the staring contest and get down to it.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: And an enormous amount of political capital is being wasted here.
CORNISH: In what way? For Trump or for -- GARCIA-NAVARRO: For Trump.
CORNISH: OK.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: No, because what is happening is you're seeing this administration doing so many things on so many fronts. You know, conflicts with universities; trying to gut the federal government; you know, immigration, et cetera, et cetera.
If the economy is humming, if people feel confident in that, people are going to be much more inclined to go along with what are pretty radical changes.
We are seeing in polling that, actually, what were Trump's strongest polling numbers, which were on the economy, and on immigration, those are becoming softer, because people are losing confidence.
And so, he needs a lot of momentum to implement some of his plans. And this kind of stuff with the economy, it's not what they want to be discussing.
CORNISH: Yes. It's hard to walk away from.
Everybody, stay with me. We've got a lot to talk about today.
Still to come on THIS MORNING, we're going to be talking about the Catholic faith mourning the late pope, the late Pope Francis at St. Peter's Basilica. That is happening right now.
This is leading up to the beginning of a unique tradition: electing the next pontiff. We're going to talk about what happens next.
Plus, measles cases in the U.S. are surging. Why the number may be even higher than we think.
And live pictures from Southern New Jersey. A wildlife [SIC] -- a wildfire burning through the night, forcing thousands to evacuate and leading authorities to close a portion of the Garden State Parkway. We're going to have more on this story throughout the hour.
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CORNISH: If you're getting ready, it's 20 minutes past the hour. Here's the morning roundup. Some of the stories I want you to know as you're getting your day going.
So, a jury in Arizona found the woman nicknamed the Doomsday Mom, guilty of conspiring to murder her estranged husband. Prosecutors say Lori Vallow Daybell plotted with her brother to kill him for his life insurance.
She's already serving multiple life sentences for the deaths of her two children and her new husband's first wife. And a measles outbreak in the Southern U.S. has now reached 739 cases.
That's according to health officials in Texas, New Mexico, Oklahoma, Kansas.
Experts warn the true scale of the outbreak is actually much larger, as so many cases go unreported.
Two children at this point have died from the measles. A third death is under investigation. In all three cases, they were unvaccinated.
And the executive director of the Texas Lottery has resigned. This comes during multiple investigations into some jackpots.
In 2023, a group in Europe won a $95 million prize by purchasing more than 25 million tickets, almost every possible combination. But they used a Texas-based courier company to do it, and that company denies any wrongdoing, as do lottery officials.
And I want you to see this. A volcano in Hawaii spouts lava as tall as a skyscraper. It more -- it went more than 650 feet high on Hawaii's big island.
This is the latest in a series of eruptions that actually started back in December.
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Coming up on CNN THIS MORNING, overnight, a crucial meeting about Russia's war on Ukraine won't be happening after all. But Vice President Vance is indicating the U.S. could be ready to walk away.
Plus, if you need help navigating all this financial uncertainty, we've got a money expert here to help you out.
And of course, a live look at St. Peter's Basilica. That's where mourners are gathering to pay their respects to Pope Francis.
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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (SPEAKING FOREIGN LANGUAGE)
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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Uncertainty is kind of where the consumer sentiment and the markets are at right now.
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