Return to Transcripts main page
CNN This Morning
Trump Says 'Reciprocal' Tariffs Could Return Within Weeks; Do Democrats Need Their Own Joe Rogan? Aired 6-6:30a ET
Aired April 24, 2025 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
RAHEL SOLOMON, CNN ANCHOR: Love that. Any opportunity to talk about Coy Wire on this show, certainly a friend of the show, we will take.
[06:00:07]
All right. Thanks for joining us here on EARLY START. I'm Rahel Solomon. We leave you this morning with some beautiful images of New York. I'll see you tomorrow.
AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: It is Thursday, April 24. Here's what's happening right now on CNN THIS MORNING.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We'll lose business because of it. There's no question.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: A new ticking clock. President Trump speeding up the timeline to make a deal on tariffs, though China appears to be in no hurry.
Plus, spare the rod, spoil the child. Trump's new rules on discipline in America's schools.
Also, Kyiv under attack. A wave of deadly strikes overnight. Why Ukraine's president is not backing down as he's pushed to accept a U.S. peace deal.
And --
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It was a really beautiful experience to see our Holy Father.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Catholic faithful gather for a final farewell. Pope Francis lying in state in St. Peter's Basilica right now.
It's 6 a.m. here on the East Coast. Here's a live look inside the Vatican. That's where mourners are once again paying respect to the late Pope Francis ahead of his funeral on Saturday.
Good morning, everybody. I'm Audie Cornish. I want to thank you for waking up with me.
And today, we are returning to tariffs. It feels like we've done that on again, off again, probably because the president has been doing them on again, off again, especially when it comes to this idea of reciprocal tariffs.
He's now saying he could bring back those tariffs in just two to three weeks. White House officials say about 90 countries have offered to negotiate trade deals, although no new deals have been announced.
And here's what the president said would happen if a deal isn't reached with a country.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: We're going to set the tariff. We just set the tariff.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How soon?
TRUMP: It's something that we think -- that will happen, I'd say over the next couple of weeks. Wouldn't you say? I think so. Over the next two or three weeks, we'll be setting the number.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: So now, 12 states are actually suing the Trump administration, accusing it of illegally imposing tax hikes through tariffs.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KRIS MAYES (D), ARIZONA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Which his administration has attempted to unilaterally implement is not just economically reckless. The president has absolutely no legal authority to issue these tariffs.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: And corporate leaders are also pushing back. Earlier this week, CEOs from Walmart, Target, Home Depot, Lowe's, they all met with the president, and they warned him that store shelves across the U.S. could, quote, "soon be empty" because of supply chain disruptions.
Joining me now in the group chat, Evan McMorris Santoro, reporter at "NOTUS"; Hyma Moore, former chief of staff to DNC chair Jaime Harrison; and Erin Maguire, a Republican strategist.
So, Erin, I actually want to start with you, because I think it's one thing if Democrats are complaining or attorney generals are complaining, who are Democrats. It's another thing if the CEOs pull you behind closed doors and say, dude, we can't make this work.
So, what do you make of that backlash out of the business community?
ERIN MAGUIRE, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Well, you see that this administration is leaning in and engaging the business community, right? Scott Bessent brought those leaders in.
They're in constant conversation to make sure that the business community at least feels that they have a direct line to the White House about the tariffs and about what's happening economically in the United States.
CORNISH: Did that spook the White House?
MAGUIRE: I don't think so at all, because this White House, what they are seeing is that they have to move on this strategy. They've been moving on this strategy when it comes to trade and tariffs the entire time. It's what Donald Trump would call the art of the deal and the negotiation.
You have to be willing to -- to give a little, to get a little. And what Trump is saying here is, hey, listen, we are going to set a timeline on this. We're going to have clear conversation. And we want everybody at the table.
I think the CEOs at least know they're getting their voice into the White House.
CORNISH: OK. I want to play some sound from Republican senators. You had Chuck Grassley, who's been touring all of the counties in Iowa, which he does, right, on his little town hall thing.
Also, Frank [SIC] Lankford. And sort of here was their take on, as you said, the art of the deal and talking about this tariff issue.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. CHUCK GRASSLEY (R-IA): If he's successful. I just have to say he's got a better approach than I've had of negotiation, which I've espoused over the last 50 years.
SEN. JAMES LANKFORD (R-OK): This crowd knows I'm not a big fan of tariffs. I'm just not. But tariffs are a very effective negotiating tactic to be able to say you need to come to the table to actually be able to negotiate.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Evan, I feel like you have been doing some reporting on like how -- or thinking about how the White House has been trying to talk about this, because Democrats do want to talk about the economy. Democrats do want to talk about, like, how they think this is hurting people's wallets.
[06:05:10]
EVAN MCMORRIS SANTORO, REPORTER, "NOTUS": Well, Republicans want to talk about it, too. I mean, what you're really seeing, right, with those two clips of the two senators, this is still in the political sales job phase, right? This is a -- this is a key component of what Donald Trump has said he wanted to do in this country.
He -- make me president. I'm going to use tariffs to improve the lives of regular Americans by changing the way the economy works.
We've seen in polling, we've seen from some Republicans now, we've seen from CEOs that sales job has just not really happened yet. Right?
And this is the real challenge that they're facing because, you know, you know, I spoke to a -- one of the -- the attorneys general involved in that lawsuit that you mentioned yesterday. It's going up in the "NOTUS" newsletter this morning, actually, our interview.
And you know, he talked about basically, look, if this actually ends up being good for the country, right? Like that's -- I mean, we're fine with it basically. But the problem is right now, it really isn't.
They're -- they're looking at businesses being really panicked about the future.
CORNISH: Yes.
SANTORO: Looking at the economic -- you know, the economic -- people's confidence index going down. All those things.
CORNISH: But if it's doing a lot of heavy lifting.
SANTORO: It really speaks to the fact that, like, the person at the top of this issue, Donald Trump, has not yet fully convinced everybody that what he's doing is worth it, right?
CORNISH: All right. So now that's a messaging conversation. I mean, you guys.
HYMA MOORE, FORMER CHIEF OF STAFF TO DNC CHAIR JAIME HARRISON: I mean, look, I think one of the things that I've heard from CEOs over the last couple of weeks is they wish they had gone to the table a little bit sooner. And the uncertainty, the uncertainty is what's killing people.
And then the second part, on the political side, I think you're right, Evan. I think the president's got to be very, very clear that this is -- this is his tariff. This is his decision. And so, he's got to help his party go out there and sell it.
These Republicans, you know, Chuck Grassley in 99 counties in Iowa, they're having a hard time selling this -- these tariffs. And I think people want to know if their lives are going to be better immediately, not in four years.
It's kind of like the problem that President Joe Biden had when he was saying, oh, gas prices are down; things are better. And people just say, well, they're not, and they don't believe him.
CORNISH: Yes.
MOORE: So, I think Donald Trump's having the same issue.
CORNISH: Uncertainty works in a negotiation. It's like you don't know what I'm going to do with the economy. MOORE: Not with people's everyday lives.
CORNISH: Yes. "The Wall Street Journal" editorial board, which I mean, it's "The Wall Street Journal," right? They're a business paper. They were extremely critical of tariffs from the beginning.
But they said this: "Another harsh reality is that China called Mr. Trump's bluff and seems to have won this round." That's a massive sign to the business community, like "The Wall Street Journal" saying China called your bluff.
MOORE: Yes.
MAGUIRE: They have called their bluff. But the key word there is "seems," right? Because this is still active. This is still ongoing. And we are nowhere near the final stage of this yet.
But I will say to Donald Trump's point -- to Donald Trump's point on this, it's that you have to continue to break the system to fix the system here. To your point, right?
Like, he had to make these huge upheavals in the economy to be able to get us back to where he sees the United States should be economically.
And so -- but the difference, I think, here is twofold. One, I do think that this White House needs to be clearer, because clarity brings certainty for people who need it.
CORNISH: Yes.
MAGUIRE: Especially in the markets.
But two, Joe Biden lied to the American people and so did the -- So did the administration. What did they say? Inflation is transitory. The Southern border is secure.
So, there's a big difference that --
CORNISH: The takeaway could be, you can -- you can message a lot of things. But if people feel like it's hurting them --
MAGUIRE: And that's why the people --
CORNISH: -- they can fall into the same trap. No?
MAGUIRE: Totally.
MOORE: Yes, yes. And I think that's starting to happen.
MAGUIRE: And that's where the messaging is going wrong for Republicans, and where we could be doing better, is that, if you are going to take this -- this ground on tariffs, on trade, you better be definitive and strong in saying, hey, this is not going to be easy.
I do think Republicans have done that, but it's going to have to be a continued conversation, because -- CORNISH: Yes. And we know it's hard. We know it's hard. It could go sideways.
Quick, group chat. Please stick with us, because we've got more to talk about on the show later.
Coming up on CNN THIS MORNING, survivors and victims' families from a mass shooting all turned up at a courthouse, ready to confront the shooter. Why they did not get the face-to-face that they had hoped for.
Plus, a fast-moving fire burning thousands of acres in New Jersey. How the weather is actually helping crews there today.
And comedy in the Trump era. From canceling shows at the Kennedy Center to going straight to the Oval Office, how comedians are managing this moment.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BILL MAHER, HOST, HBO'S "REAL TIME WITH BILL MAHER": To all the people who treated this like it was some kind of summit meeting, you're ridiculous. Like, I was going to sign a treaty or something. I have -- I have no power. I'm a (EXPLETIVE DELETED) comedian.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:13:51]
CORNISH: It's 15 minutes past the hour. Here's your morning roundup. Some of the stories we want you to know before you get your day going.
In just a few hours, the gunman who killed seven people at an Independence Day parade in Highland Park, Illinois. Well, they'll be sentenced. He pleaded guilty in March.
Yesterday, dozens of survivors and the victims' families actually showed up at the court, expecting to address him directly. He wasn't there, because he chose not to attend.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONIO ROMANUCCI, ATTORNEY: He didn't show up today in court, because cowards do not face their accusers. They shrink away from them. He knew how many lives he had changed, and he didn't want to face it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: He is expected to face life in prison.
A Maryland judge ordering the return of a Venezuelan asylum seeker who was deported to El Salvador. The ruling claimed that his removal violated a previous court order. Now, this comes as another judge had paused the discovery process in
the case of Kilmar Abrego Garcia. He was the man that was mistakenly deported to El -- to an El Salvador mega prison. It's unclear why the judge is putting this other case on hold.
A jury ruled Norfolk Southern is solely responsible for paying a $600 million settlement to residents of East Palestine, Ohio, over a train derailment.
It spilled more than a million pounds of hazardous chemicals in 2023, so a separate lawsuit alleges that seven deaths are connected to this.
No comment from Norfolk Southern about that. And it's not admitted to wrongdoing.
And the NFL draft kicks off tonight in Green Bay. The Tennessee Titans have first pick and are widely expected to select Miami quarterback Cam Ward.
Other stars expected to go quickly: Colorado's Travis Hunter, Penn State's Abdul Carter, and LSU's Will Campbell.
And you've got to see this. People at a Raising Cane's in Las Vegas were screaming, "Yes, boy" when they saw who their cashier was, because it was Flavor Flav.
He took over the register to promote his new partnership with the company. They are selling special clock necklaces like the rapper's chain, which I will be, of course, going to purchase immediately.
The proceeds go to the Women's Sports Foundation.
Still coming up after the break, just ahead of hurricane season, FEMA staff could be taking a big hit.
Plus, we'll be going to the Vatican again as mourners are there to see the pope. He lies in state ahead of his funeral on Saturday.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:20:34]
CORNISH: All right. People were calling 2024 the podcast election, right? Giving candidates like President Trump a new way to connect with voters.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE ROGAN, PODCASTER: We've highlighted you on the show many times, where you -- when you did this Biden impression where he's walking around. He doesn't know what he's doing. It's funny, it's standup. It's funny stuff.
You have, like, comedic instincts. Like when you said to Hillary, you'd be in jail, like, that's great timing.
TRUMP: Yes.
ROGAN: But it's, like, that kind of stuff was unheard of as a politician. Like, no one had done that. And I think --
TRUMP: You know, it's funny. You need at least the attitude of a comedian when you're doing this business.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: So, Rogan, of course, got his start in standup, and this is this moment where we're seeing, like, these cultural shifts under Trump's second term, right?
This moment where, basically, Democrats are also saying to themselves, wait a second. Do we need to get into this world? Are we at the center of the culture? Are we funny? Or are we considered humorless?
So, there's this tug of war about who can amplify the message.
So, we decided on "The Assignment" to look more into this, and we're talking with comedian W. Kamau Bell. Here's some of our conversation.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CORNISH: I was reading your Substack when you basically volunteered to be the left's Joe Rogan. We heard for a few months after the election from Democrats, Oh, if only they had their version of that. What do you think they mean when they say that?
W. KAMAU BELL, COMEDIAN: A "man's man" with scare quotes. They want a -- they want a muscle-head guy who -- who likes fighting, who -- but also likes to like the -- you know, likes the trans community.
Like, they want like -- they want, like, the guy who also has sort of a -- you know, who also wants Medicare for all, is what they want.
And the funny thing is that Joe Rogan has occasionally been that guy, but he doesn't last there for long because it's not -- it's not inflammatory enough for him.
But those people exist. They are literally on TikTok and Instagram right now. There are men of that kind. The wrestler C.M. Punk, who's the biggest wrestler of the world, is that guy. You know what I mean? He's a -- he's a left-wing, like, guy who spends a lot of time in gyms and is literally a professional wrestler. Doesn't get more bro than that, you know?
So, those people exist. The problem is the left want that person to be anointed instead of like going to sort of do the work and finding out these people are already out here. They're not, you know -- there are many different. It doesn't have to be a dude, and it doesn't have to look like Joe Rogan.
But there's always this appeal to whiteness and white maleness in this country that is really also baked into the -- the left's Joe Rogan. We want to know -- we want our white guy, instead of like, you know, you could have just -- you could just be paying more attention to Amber Ruffin, who's got podcasts.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
CORNISH: OK, group chat is back. And of course, W. Kamau Bell referencing Amber Ruffin, the comedian who actually had her gig yanked from the White House Correspondents Dinner. She was supposed to be the headliner, and they dropped her, in part because the Trump administration sort of deputy chief of White House staff, said, why do you have this person? She has spoken out against us.
I want to talk about comedy in particular, because I feel like comedy conveys authenticity. And authenticity is the rare earth mineral of politics right now. Everybody is in a scramble.
And on the left -- Evan, I know you pay attention to this, like dark woke. Like, dirty left.
SANTORO: Anything, really.
CORNISH: Yes, yes, but it's just like the idea of, like, we're edgy, and that shows that we're cool. And that means something.
SANTORO: Well, it's interesting. I thought what W. Kamau Bell was saying about this idea of Democrats wanting to anoint somebody as their Joe Rogan is so interesting.
I do talk to a lot of Democrats about this issue right now, like about why can't they be exciting? Why can't they be funny?
CORNISH: Why can't they be cool?
SANTORO: Why can't they be engaging?
But part of what is happening here, right, with a guy like Rogan, they say what they're going to say. And these other people show up and say, hey, we're cool with it. We agree with you, right?
We've seen the conservative movement shift in this. You know, for example, this MAHA direction, this Make America Healthy Again direction. That comes out of the podcast world. That wasn't baked in, you know, RNC headquarters somewhere. Right?
CORNISH: Yes.
SANTORO: So, what's interesting is that, you know, I spoke to a Democratic strategist about this, about, sort of all these cringe moments that Democrats have had, trying to get themselves back into some kind of credibility on the Internet.
And the strategist said, look, there's nothing we can really do. He's got to kind of post through it and hope that something connects.
CORNISH: Those tweets are --
SANTORO: Because there's nothing we can really do. But it's interesting. CORNISH: Hold on a second.
SANTORO: Yes.
CORNISH: You were nodding during -- while he was talking. And you -- you're youthful, I'll say, Hyma.
[06:25:03]
MOORE: Thank you. I appreciate it.
CORNISH: Unless you surprise me and say, you're 72 years old. But talk about that. Is -- are we overplaying that idea? Because I think the term -- basically, what we're talking about with Kamau Bell is like, if you're policing people, right? And you're -- and you're being woke, that's uncool.
MOORE: I mean, I think we're definitely overplaying this. I think to Evan's point, there has to be some authenticity there. Like, you can't just make a person be a cool liberal, progressive Democrat.
I think what Joe Rogan and Donald Trump have been really good at is they've been very authentic, and they understand the heart -- the heartbeat of the movement, of the conservative sort of agenda right now.
And I don't think Democrats have that, but I don't -- I'm not sure we need that. I think if we keep running toward that sort of scenario, we miss the point.
I mean, the point is meeting people where they are and understanding what they need and what they want to hear and what they want to hear from their politicians.
And so, I think we're just -- we're talking about this a little bit too much.
CORNISH: Yes.
MOORE: It's fun to talk about. I love comedy.
CORNISH: I know, but if you -- I mean, showing my age. Bill Clinton, like playing the saxophone on "Arsenio."
MOORE: Yes.
CORNISH: Like, you know, Eron, the thing that people always said was like, look, you have the culture. The late-night comedians make the jokes. Like, this is why this Kennedy Center thing is such a big deal. There's an ideological capture of culture.
So, are you out of it? Does it feel like Republicans are having a time and having the last laugh?
MAGUIRE: Right now, Republicans are, like, the cool kids in D.C. right now after we were, you know, sent away during the 2020 cycle. Republicans are feeling good about themselves.
But to the point of, like, Joe Rogan of all of this, Joe Rogan didn't enter this sphere as a political person.
CORNISH: Right, right.
MAGUIRE: He -- he built that audience off his authenticity.
CORNISH: And Jon Stewart did the same thing on the left, yes.
MAGUIRE: But also off of, like, those continued conversations. He wasn't a Republican. He's not a conservative by any stretch of the imagination. But having conversations and having other voices brought him there.
It was like he ended up at the 180 position, because he was like, this is so backwards. What's on the other side? And people were drawn to that.
That's where Democrats miss this time and again. They think they're like, well, we need that exact thing. No, you got to figure it out.
The reason Joe Rogan works and podcasts work is because the audience likes that.
CORNISH: Yes.
MAGUIRE: Democrats are good on TikTok and on Instagram and on social medias, which are shorter.
CORNISH: Is that your social media?
(CROSSTALK)
MAGUIRE: What those cool kids do, I assume.
SANTORO: It's kind of like tapping on your phone.
CORNISH: Hello, global teens. Yes.
MOORE: Like they're good at yapping.
MAGUIRE: But they're just not as good at the long-form conversation with voters. And that matters to the American people.
CORNISH: That's a nice way of putting it.
MAGUIRE: People love to listen to podcasts. They like the long form. Joe Rogan is three hours. That is a long listen.
CORNISH: As a person who's a podcaster, I have to say, I absolutely hate interviewing lawmakers because podcasting is about vulnerability and intimacy, and lawmakers are about being invulnerable. Like, they're basically -- don't want to ever be told they did a gaffe or all these problems. So, they can't talk. SANTOR: Democrats can't talk for a long time and draw an audience.
Right. Cory Booker talked for like 37 hours or whatever it was and drew an audience with what he was doing, because he had something that was, like, focused and attentive.
The difference with this, I think that what Eron is saying is exactly right, which is that when you talk to these Democratic strategists, they sound like Democratic strategists talking about podcasts. That's what they sound like, as opposed to people who like podcasts or are podcasters who become interested in politics.
CORNISH: Yes.
SANTOR: Which is what really happened with someone like Rogan. Right.
And -- and the challenge really is how much control do you want to let go of? And I can say that, in my reporting, when I talk to the -- you know, talk to Democrats as they try to make their plans for their future, they have to give up some of this control. That's what you actually see the conservative movement kind of do.
There's a lot of tapestry over there --
CORNISH: Yes.
SANTORO: -- on that side of the political aisle now where people believe this --
CORNISH: And Trump really forced that.
SANTORO: -- people believe this, they talk to each other. They're all on different sides.
Democrats are still trying to kind of rally around one thing with one person directing them, and that makes it very difficult, I think for them.
CORNISH: OK, hold on a second. Group chat is lit on this. You guys, if you want to talk more, please check out the latest episode of the podcast. "The Assignment" is out today. You can find our conversation with W. Kamau Bell and more.
All right. Coming up, President Trump said he wasn't familiar with Project 2025 on the campaign trail. But is that playbook his new guide in the White House?
Plus, Russia launches more deadly strikes in Ukraine as a new spat between world leaders puts a peace deal in limbo.
Sorry --
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:30:00]
