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House Rules Committee Holds All-Nighter on Trump Agenda Bill; College vs. Trades: Is a Four-Year Degree Still Worth It? Aired 6- 6:30a ET

Aired May 21, 2025 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:00:00]

POLO SANDOVAL, CNN ANCHOR/CORRESPONDENT: The NFL owners voted to allow the rule change on Tuesday. A 75 percent majority vote in favor was required to pass that flag motion.

According to the proposal, no more than one player from each NFL team can participate in the event. This will be the Olympic debut for flag football. We cannot wait.

For Rahel and the team, I thank you for watching EARLY START. I'm Polo Sandoval in New York. CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: It is Wednesday, May 21. And here's what's happening right now on CNN THIS MORNING.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why are you trying to ram it through in the dead of night?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Up all night. Lawmakers are in a marathon meeting, talking about the so-called big, beautiful bill. Was the pressure from the president enough to move the needle?

Plus, the Justice Department moves against another one of President Trump's past foes. Why former New York Governor Andrew Cuomo is now under investigation.

And the new rules just announced for Newark Airport. The FAA cuts flights just days before the start of a busy summer travel season.

And later, weighing their future. Why some high school grads are choosing to get real world experience over going to college.

It's 6 a.m. here on the East Coast. Here's a live look at Capitol Hill, where it was a late night, bleeding into an early morning for some lawmakers fighting over budget legislation.

Good morning, everybody. I'm Audie Cornish. I want to thank you for waking up with me. Now House Republicans, as we said, pulling an all nighter to try and

get the president's agenda over another hurdle.

So, starting at 1 a.m. Eastern, the House Rules Committee convened for a final markup on this bill. And it's a meeting that is still happening right now. This is a live picture of them.

Republican leaders hope to get a floor vote, a full floor vote as soon as today, and they want final passage of the whole thing by Monday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. VIRGINIA FOXX (R-NC): The one big, beautiful bill is our answer to the American people's mandate from November. It is a clear, full- throated response to the millions of hardworking men and women across the entire nation who demand a serious course correction from the last four years.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: With a slim House majority, Speaker Mike Johnson has to convince these different factions of his party to get on board. So, he called in some backup. President Trump is trying to bridge the gap on topics like tax breaks and Medicaid funding, which have become a flashpoint in negotiations.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: Here's what I want on Medicaid. We're not touching anything. All I want is one thing. Three words. We don't want any waste, fraud or abuse. Very simple.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Although it may not be that simple.

New analysis just released by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office finds the big, beautiful bill slashes Medicaid funding and federal Food Stamp programs by nearly $1 trillion over the next decade.

The office also says the bill would increase the deficit by a whopping $3.8 trillion by 2034. And that increase is causing conservatives like Congressman Thomas Massie to vote no in the face of personal attacks by the president.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I don't think Thomas Massie understands government. I think he's a grandstander, frankly. He'll probably vote. We don't even talk to him much. I think he should be voted out of office.

REP. THOMAS MASSIE (R-KY): I didn't feel attacked in there. I think he was just trying to persuade people who weren't there yet.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did he change? Did he change your mind? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.

MASSIE: No.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Joining me now in the group chat, Meghan Hays, former Biden White House director of message planning; and Charlie Dent, former Republican congressman from Pennsylvania. Welcome to you both.

So, let's set the stage here. When you call in a president to talk about something, what is the goal? Is it really about showing the public, look, we're all on the same page? Is it actually about convincing people in the room?

I don't know who wants to go first, because you've been on different sides of this.

MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER BIDEN WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF MESSAGE PLANNING: Go ahead.

CHARLIE DENT, FORMER PENNSYLVANIA CONGRESSMAN: Well, I think they're trying to bring in Trump to close the deal in the House.

CORNISH: But does that work? Is everyone scrambling around, like, "Oh, the president is coming today"? Like, what does --

DENT: Some do.

CORNISH: OK.

DENT: But -- but look, I think what's happening here is that many of these members right now who are out there saying, I'm against the bill, they're going to melt, and they're going to vote for the bill. That's what's going to happen.

The bigger challenge is going to be these members in these marginal and swing districts who realize that whatever the House passes is going to be gutted by the U.S. Senate.

And so, that's the real question. If you're a member who's at risk of being reelected, do I vote for a bill that has enormous cuts to social safety-net programs and, you know, and keeps taxes lower? And do I do that, knowing that the Senate is going to really reduce the amount of cuts significantly? Why do I want to walk that line?

CORNISH: What I hear you saying is that we've been focusing on the different factions, so to speak, like, oh, here are the fiscal hawks. They rise again. They talk about how expensive everything is, and they point out what everyone knows: that the math isn't mathing, right? Like, the math does not work on this.

And you just have to decide you're OK with that to go forward with the vote. But you're saying they're not the people who will be the ultimate holdouts. You're -- it sounds like what you're saying is the people who

ultimately will be most concerns are the so-called frontline members, or people who are in those purple districts.

DENT: Absolutely.

CORNISH: Those are who -- sometimes we call them moderates. It doesn't necessarily mean they are.

HAYS: Right. And I think for Democrats, they want those moderates and those people in frontline districts to have to take this vote, because that gives them something to campaign against in '26.

And they -- you know, the Democrats want to take back power of the House. So -- or take the majority of the House.

So, I think for when President Trump is going up there, there's a little bit of -- of peer pressuring. There's a little bit of shaming. Some of these members are just saying, like, you need to do what's best for your caucus. We're going to lose the majority. And I think that's why you take them up there.

A lot of these rank-and-file members, at least from my experience working in the White House before, they don't see the president. Leadership comes to the White House. You know, the legislative office calls the leadership teams or some key, you know, committee members for different committees. But they're not talking to all the rank-and- file members all the time.

And so, when the president goes to these caucus meetings, they have an actual conversation. And he is able to meet with some of these folks who don't get that touch from them, and that may get them over the line to vote for something. I don't know, in President Trump's case, if that works.

DENT: There's a difference here. I was here in 2017. Same dynamics. Obamacare repeal, replace.

I was one of the guys who got summoned into the White House. I'm going to destroy you, Charlie. It's going to be your fault if this goes down. I still was a no.

But the problem was I -- you know, you try to talk substance with the president. I don't think he really understands any of the nuances of Medicaid policy or SNAP benefits.

And -- and a lot of these members know they are voting for a bill that will never become law. Remember the BTU tax of the '90s when a lot of Democrats voted for this thing that was never going to become law? They lost their elections.

Many Republicans are fearing that same dynamic, because the Senate is going to just basically call all this stuff current policy. They just want to extend the tax cuts.

CORNISH: At the same time, Charlie -- DENT: Targets are much lower.

CORNISH: -- you're here with me, right? Like the threat of being primaried, the threat of losing your seat is very real when you go up against Trump. I mean, is that basically enough to move this forward? And also, him mentioning, hey, look, don't touch Medicaid, I thought, was like an interesting moment.

DENT: Well, again, the members, the frontline members, their bigger problem is the general election.

HAYS: Yes.

DENT: So, you know, again, these guys in these very safe seats who are, you know, beating their chests right now. Yes, yes, they're -- they're subject to a primary.

By the way, Thomas Massie is an immovable object. They're not going to get him.

But those frontline members, the least of their problems is going to be the primary. It's going to be the general election. And they know that. Donald Trump should know that.

And so, he has somewhat limited leverage. But again, keep your eyes on the Senate. Why put up a vote?

CORNISH: Is he --

DENT: No one's going for it.

CORNISH: -- reading the room by saying not to touch Medicaid, in terms of the public?

DENT: Well, he understands -- he understands that the politics of Medicaid have changed significantly since 2017, the last time they had a major look at Medicaid. That many Republicans now represent districts that have huge Medicaid populations.

CORNISH: Yes.

DENT: -- with the expansion population. And they are (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

CORNISH: So, like a real acknowledgment of that.

DENT: Yes.

CORNISH: I think, at this point.

DENT: This cuts into their base.

CORNISH: Yes. All right.

HAYS: But it's also a good talking point that we are all repeating. Right? So, I don't actually think Donald Trump cares about keeping Medicaid. I think it's a good talking point. But also, then these members need to take a serious look at their

districts. Like Speaker Johnson's district has 30 percent of his adult population is on Medicaid, and like 60 percent of children under 18. So, that's just in his district. He's --

CORNISH: Where he's still --

HAYS: It's like 100 percent. But I mean, that's --

CORNISH: He's still pushing it. All right. You guys stay with me, because we're going to talk about a lot of things today.

Right now on CNN THIS MORNING, limiting access to vaccines. The Trump administration's plan to only allow the COVID shot for a certain group of people.

Plus, NFL players will be able to compete in the 2028 Olympics. But there's a twist.

And protecting the homeland. President Trump unveils his plan for a Golden Dome.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JIMMY FALLON, HOST, NBC'S "THE TONIGHT SHOW WITH JIMMY FALLON": President Trump announced that the Space Force will build a Golden Dome anti-missile shield to protect the U.S. from high-tech threats. Can we see what the Golden Dome shield will look like? Oh, yes, that makes sense. There you go. Not bad.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:14:06]

CORNISH: It's almost 15 minutes past the hour. I want to give you your morning roundup.

So, former President Joe Biden's spokesperson says that his last known test for prostate cancer was in 2014, and that the former president was not diagnosed with it before last week.

Now, that test is called a PSA, and it checks the blood for a certain protein. His rep released this information, as many have questioned why this diagnosis was not revealed sooner.

Actor and comedian George Wendt, known for his iconic role as Norm in the TV show "Cheers," has died at the age of 76.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEORGE WENDT, ACTOR: You know what I think the most important thing in life is? Is love. And you want to know what I love?

TED DANSON, ACTOR: Beer, Norm?

WENDT: Yes. I'll have a quick one. (END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: The Cheers bar in Boston posted this picture in a tribute to Wendt, saying, "We're looking towards your spot at the bar, and you're not here."

The FAA issued an order to cut the number of flights coming out -- in and out of Newark's airport. And this comes after weeks of delays caused by air traffic control issues and runway construction.

The order, effective immediately, will only allow a few dozen planes to take off and land each hour for the foreseeable future.

And NFL players will be able to compete in flag football in the 2028 Olympics. Team owners voted yesterday that only one player per team can participate. The sport is making its Olympic debut at the games in L.A.

Next on CNN THIS MORNING, graduation season is here. Students are planning their next steps. Why are some choosing apprenticeships instead of heading off to college?

Plus, imagine seeing this in your backyard. The damage this tornado and other storms left behind.

Good morning, New York. It's Fleet Week. The parade of ships will travel up the Hudson River later today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:20:23]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HENRY WINKLER, ACTOR: Our youngest son came to us and said, "You know, I don't think I'm going to go to college."

And I said, "Oh, my gosh. You have to go to college, because that's what you blossom. It's where you learn about yourself. It's where you might figure out what you want to do."

And he said, "God will provide."

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: All right. I'm going to go off-script for a second, because take a look at this headline from "The Wall Street Journal."

It zeroes in on the high school juniors with $70,000-a-year job offers. And that's without graduating high school yet, or even having a college degree.

So, I want to talk about how we got to this point where going to school to become a doctor or lawyer may be perceived as being not as valuable for young people than, say, training to be a plumber. And this year, the average cost of a four-year college degree at a

private university gives us a clue why, because it climbed to more than $40,000, compared to just 24,000 for out-of-state students at public universities. We're just talking about tuition there.

So, let's talk about whether or not you could fare better with a more hands-on route, like, say, an apprenticeship or trade school.

Joining me now to discuss is Angie Simon, president and co-founder of Heavy Metal Summer Experience.

And, Angie, I feel like I grew up next to a technical high school. Trade schools have been around forever.

Do you see more interest at this point, given how people are talking about the cost and value of a four-year degree?

ANGIE SIMON, PRESIDENT/CO-FOUNDER, HEAVY METAL SUMMER EXPERIENCE: I absolutely do. I think the -- the stem is changing. I mean, I think the tide is moving a little bit, and we're starting to see kids understanding.

I've heard something -- stats about 17 to 20 percent of the kids graduating high school are not going to go to any college at all, and they need to find careers. And I think the trades is one of those careers that they're starting to hear about. They like to work with their hands. It keeps them in technology, as well. So, it's a really -- it's a great opportunity for them.

CORNISH: I know your summer experience deal helps people get apprenticeships through unions, whether they be for plumbing, for HVAC, electrical.

I'm wondering, though, hanging over this is the concern about A.I. And maybe how certain kinds of technology may change these jobs in the future.

SIMON: Well, actually, we're looking for kids that have an interest in technology and A.I. as well as those jobs, because construction has been an industry that is actually accepting technology a lot. And we need people who are willing to do robotics; interested in that; interested in in A.I. in regards to how you track productivity.

I mean, there's so much technology being used in construction today that it actually -- I think we're looking for kids that have interest in that.

And so, I think that -- that where -- the kids are starting to find that nice mix with construction, where it's not just you're digging a ditch anymore. It really is using the tools and technology that we have in construction to make it a much more attractive career.

CORNISH: Are you seeing any difference in tone or interest from parents who are maybe looking for something that they can feel is like a more tangible kind of gain for young people?

Like, are they talking about debt, or is it kind of the same communities that were already interested?

SIMON: Well, actually, we focus a lot on the underserved industry -- underserved areas, and the kids that are at risk, and those that need a second chance.

And those kids and those parents, the parents there are -- seem to be very, very accepting and excited that they found a path.

But when we also deal with kids that are just from the normal high schools, their parents are actually very surprised about how much money a child can make -- their child can make in -- and will be making, within four to five years, a six-figure job. And they will have no cost. They'll train for free.

And at that point, when they turn out at -- as a journeyperson, that at that point they're going to be making six figures.

I remember five -- five years in college and then one year at another job. I went to my new job at Western Allied, and I was 24 years old.

And my pipefitter that was working on my project bought a house in the Bay Area at 24 years old, because he had been working in the industry for five years. And I -- or I -- or six years. And I had been already at college and had a debt that I had to pay.

So, I mean, it is -- it's pretty good. I mean, to be able to buy a house in the Bay Area after six years of working as a pipefitter, it's pretty good -- good deal.

CORNISH: What do you want people to understand as they have this debate about, say, bringing back manufacturing to this country and whether or not we have a workforce that is ready for it?

SIMON: Yes, we do have to bring -- I mean, I would stress that we should be considering bringing shops back in a lot of the high schools. Some states are better than other states across -- across the United States in regards to that.

[06:25:05]

But right now, a lot of the states don't have shops in the high schools, so the kids don't even know how to use a tape measure when they hit our camp in the summer.

So, I think we should be thinking about the fact that not 100 percent of the kids in every high school are going to go to college. So, let's start equipping our high schools back to when -- when I was. I'm aging myself, but when I was a kid and we had shops in high school.

So, I really think we need to start looking at the fact that maybe 30 to 40 percent of our kids graduating high schools may -- in the future, may not be going to college.

CORNISH: Angie Simon, president and also co-founder of Heavy Metal Summer Experience. Thank you.

SIMON: Thank you very much for having me. I appreciate it.

CORNISH: Still ahead on CNN THIS MORNING, could Israel be getting ready to strike Iran's nuclear facilities?

And what new intelligence suggests, as Israel faces growing pressure to allow aid into Gaza.

And habeas what? The homeland security secretary is offering her take on habeas corpus. And she was told, you got it wrong.

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[06:30:00]