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CNN This Morning
MAGA Faithful in Uproar; Claire Healy is Interviewed about "Alligator Alcatraz"; Christopher McElroen is Interviewed about "Fight for America!"; Trump Disappointed with Putin; Superman Controversy over Woke. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired July 15, 2025 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:31:48]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SETH MEYERS, HOST, "LATE NIGHT WITH SETH MEYERS": President Trump made a, quote, "major statement" today on Russia and Ukraine. That's right, he's finally announcing which side we're on.
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That's the way it is.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: President Trump issues an ultimatum to Vladimir Putin, make a deal in 50 days or face secondary tariffs.
Good morning, everybody. I'm Audie Cornish. Thank you for joining me on CNN THIS MORNING.
It is half past the hour on the East Coast. And here's what's happening right now.
Russian leaders are in China meeting with President Xi Jinping. It comes just one day after President Trump threatened secondary sanctions on buyers of Russian energy, like China. That's if Moscow does not reach a deal to end its war in Ukraine.
And the hatch now open. And moments ago, four astronauts walked out after their return to earth. They've spent two weeks at the International Space Station. The SpaceX capsule splashing down off the coast of California. On board, astronauts from Hungary, India and Poland, and a NASA retiree, Peggy Whitson, who has spent nearly 700 days in space.
Slow moving storms trigger flash flood warnings up and down the East Coast. On Monday, in New Jersey, the governor issued a state of emergency and told residents to stay off the roads. New York City saw its second wettest hour on record, more than two inches fell between 7:00 and 8:00 p.m. The storms are expected to move off the coast this morning. And for the first time in his political life, Donald Trump is losing control of the message. The MAGA base is demanding answers after Attorney General Pam Bondi announced that Jeffrey Epstein did not have a client list at the time of his death. Epstein faced charges over the sex trafficking of underage girls. Bondi's announcement is a 180 from the theories Trump and his allies have promoted for years. For example, a Dan Bongino.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A lot of people think that he -- he was killed. He knew a lot on a lot of people.
TUCKER CARLSON: He was killed, I think.
TRUMP: Yes, I'd be inclined to do the Epstein. I'd have no problem with it.
J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Seriously, we need to release the Epstein list. That -- that is an important thing.
KASH PATEL, FBI DIRECTOR: Put on your big boy pants and let us know who the pedophiles are.
BAN BONGINO, FBI DEPUTY DIRECTOR: I'm not ever going to let this story go because of what I heard from a source about Bill Clinton on a plane with Jeffrey Epstein.
I'm not letting it go, ever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: OK, well, now he's deputy director at the FBI, and Bongino is talking about quitting over handling of the Epstein case.
The group chat is back.
Jasmine, one of the things that struck me about watching this play out online in social media posts is people saying someone should be fired. This person needs to go. That person needs to go. Is it Bondi? Is it Bongino? Where's Kash Patel? What are you hearing?
: Yes. Well, I think people have to look back to Signal-gate and how long it took President Biden to fire Mike Waltz and yet he's still --
CORNISH: Oh, President Trump. Yes.
JASMINE WRIGHT, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, "NOTUS": I mean (ph) President Trump to fire Mike Waltz, and yet he is still now heading for a confirmation vote to be the U.N. ambassador, right? President Trump does not want to fire his cabinet. And, in fact, he really actually likes Pam Bondi. They spent a lot of time together. They have a lot of face time. And they've had four years.
He also says that he likes Dan Bongino. Of course, Dan Bongino showed up to work yesterday, a source told me. Really something that the administration hopes is kind of the first step for this to be, you know, just a bridge over troubled waters, something kind of in the distance and that the base gets over it.
[06:35:09]
Of course, I talked to one MAGA influencer who basically said the base, after this, you know, couple days, including President Trump's Truth Social was unmoved, that they're not moving on. And so, they're kind of in a --
CORNISH: Even as he says over and over again, is anyone still talking about this? And the answer is, yes.
WRIGHT: Yes. He says get over it. That they're (INAUDIBLE). So, they're kind of between a rock and a hard place. But I think that people have to recognize that Donald Trump does not want to give anybody a (INAUDIBLE). And he actually really likes Pam Bondi. And so, I don't necessarily see him firing her, at least in the -- in the near future.
CORNISH: In the meantime, Democrats weighing in on this. Here's House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): The American people deserve to know the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth as it relates to this whole sordid Jeffrey Epstein matter. Democrats didn't put the Jeffrey Epstein thing into the public domain. This was a conspiracy that Donald Trump, Pam Bondi and these MAGA extremists have been fanning the flames of for the last several years, and now the chickens are coming home to roost.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CHUCK ROCHA, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Look, I like it. I like it a lot.
CORNISH: Did you -- did you just do the chin? I want to know what you were going to say.
ASHLEY DAVIS, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY OFFICIAL: Yes.
ROCHA: What I'm going to say is that, look, there's very few issues that Democrats can weigh into on conspiracy stuff that will get MAGA to even think Democrats got half a brain. But this is one of them.
One thing that's lost -- and Democrats, listen to me -- the way we should be talking about this and the reason that these files should be made public is because we never talk about the victims and the folks who've lived through, the women who've lived through what they had to live through with this whole thing. Like, we talk about him, we talk about Trump, we talk about a Democrat, we talk about Clinton, whatever, but we forget --
CORNISH: In fairness, if go down the rabbit hole, a lot of the people posting are like, what about these victims? They need justice. ROCHA: For sure.
CORNISH: They see that as part of their --
DAVIS: Yes.
ROCHA: Democrat says, this is how you should be talking about this.
CORNISH: Yes.
ROCHA: Talk about the victims. Say that's why we should see everything.
CORNISH: All right, I have one for you, too. You had your chin.
DAVIS: Yes.
CORNISH: This one is Marjorie Taylor Greene --
ROCHA: Oh.
CORNISH: Demanding transparency on the case.
ROCHA: Bring all the chin.
DAVIS: Why am I Marjorie Taylor Greene all day?
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REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): And that it crosses, for many people. Jeffrey Epstein is literally the most well-known convicted pedophile in modern day history. Being convicted years ago for procuring a child for prostitution, as well as other charges. And this is something that's been talked about by many people serving in the administration, myself and many others on the right and the left of -- of there needing to be transparency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: If the whole point of outsiders becoming insiders, Chuck, but people becoming insiders is that they're going to make a difference. And what I hear in the way people talk about it is, not only are you not making a difference, you're becoming part of whatever machine I'm upset about. And like, how -- there's an undercurrent there that, I wonder, is hard to fight.
DAVIS: Absolutely. And I think that's on both sides of the aisle. I mean you've got the extreme left and the extreme right, which all will come -- that do come together. But this is one of those issues. They just don't trust the government.
But she's right, and actually you're thinking just like Marjorie Taylor Greene, in regards to the victims -- in regard to the victims.
ROCHA: Don't tell me that. You're trying to get me fired from all my clients. But, go ahead. DAVIS: But -- but I do think that there is a fundamental problem that the president has to deal with. You're right, he likes Pam Bondi. And she's taken the fall for this. I mean they're -- we don't know what we don't know, what's really happening behind the scenes. The list coming out is not going to be good for Republicans or Democrats. I'm sure there's people on the list that --
CORNISH: Pam Bondi says there's no list.
DAVIS: Or the names.
CORNISH: Yes.
DAVIS: But Lara Trump said yesterday that she thinks that there's going to be more information coming out.
CORNISH: Yes.
DAVIS: And she's trying to -- obviously, if she's coming out and saying the president's frustrated about this, they realize that something has to happen.
CORNISH: They've got to say something.
DAVIS: Yes.
CORNISH: Yes.
OK, you guys --
ROCHA: Yes, (INAUDIBLE), he likes her. He likes Pam Bondi.
CORNISH: Stay with us. We're going to talk more about this. And as we've heard, that story is not going away.
So, I want to follow up on the so-called "Alligator Alcatraz." Like, who's actually in there. And the answer is really important because critics are describing the conditions there as inhumane. And the big, beautiful bill has a provision to allow states to basically build their own version.
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SHEVRIN JONES (D), FLORIDA STATE SENATOR: This idea that the worst of the worst is inside the facility is not true. They are separating them based off of wristbands, based off of orange, yellow and red. And individuals with small infractions are inside this facility.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Civil.
JONES: Civil. Civil. Civil.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Traffic infractions.
JONES: Traffic infractions. Suspended license are in there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: So, according to our reporting here at CNN, less than 10 percent of people in ICE custody are being held for serious crimes. In Florida, more than 250 of the detainees at "Alligator Alcatraz" are not facing any criminal charges. That's according to "The Miami Herald."
So, this is a far cry from what the Trump administration and Governor DeSantis hade described as a place for the worst of the worst.
[06:40:02]
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GOV. RON DESANTIS (R-FL): It is a center to process illegal aliens and then to provide a pad to deport them from the runway that's right there. We did not create the Four Seasons. That's not the intent of this. All the standards are a lot higher than what was even required.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: We're going to bring in Claire Healy, an investigative reporter at "The Miami Herald."
Claire, good morning.
First, I want to just start with that idea of the people being held there without criminal charges. I don't know if they're there maybe on civil infractions. How is this kind of legally possible?
CLAIRE HEALY, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, "MIAMI HERALD": Yes. So, I'll start by saying, with the list that we obtained of about 750 people, they are broken into three categories. So, we have people with -- about a third with criminal convictions, about a third with pending charges, and about a third with immigration violations. And so, we have been unable to independently verify each of those cases and what that looks like and what that means. But from the cases that we reviewed, that -- that is a wide variety.
And so, from the -- the extreme cases that were released before we obtained this list, there are people who have been accused of murder, convicted of attempted murder. But then, on the other end, as you mentioned with those immigration violation bucket, we've been talking with families and attorneys who say, yes, there are -- there are civil infractions. So, driving with a suspended license. But there are also cases we reviewed where the attorneys or families say this person entered the country legally under a humanitarian parole program. For example, a 56-year-old Nicaraguan man came here under humanitarian parole in 2023 and his family says, excuse me. His family says that he has a pending asylum case, which typically does give somebody permission to stay in the country while they undergo that process.
And so, that's one case. Another Brazilian man, we talked to his attorney. She said that he has a DUI and he's here on a five year work visa while he also undergoes an asylum application. And she's not sure why he was detained and sent here. He was detained during a pro -- a hearing.
CORNISH: We heard the governor there saying, look, it's not the Four Seasons. We've heard Democrats saying, look, this is inhumane. What kind of conditions did your team uncover inside the facility?
HEALY: We've been hearing from the family members of detainees and attorneys that there are toilets that don't flush, little access to showers, toothbrushes. There are mosquitoes. That this is a facility that alternates between the temperatures of the climate around it and cold temperatures from the AC inside.
As you can see in this video, it is made up of these cages and these bunk beds and people are wearing wristbands depending on the severity of the infraction that led them there. And we have also heard from multiple attorneys that -- that one of the biggest issues is a lack of access to legal calls.
So, we have talked with attorneys who spent hours outside of this facility. One set up to seven hours trying to get in touch with their clients and were told basically there is -- there is no phone number set up. There is no email for you to reach your clients. And the -- the people that have reached outside of the facility to their family members, they are -- they are doing so from phone calls within the facility, but those are not legal lines. You know, those aren't confidential calls. And so these attorneys are -- are facing challenges in getting in touch with their client.
CORNISH: And the implications are pretty serious, as the governor said, with the runway right nearby and the administration talking about sending people to other countries, countries where they're not from.
Claire Healy, investigative reporter with "The Miami Herald," thank you.
HEALY: Thank you so much.
CORNISH: OK, so we've been joking around today and having some fun, but democracy is not a game. Or is it? There's a question at the heart there for a new interactive game based off the events of January 6th. It's called "Fight for America!" And in this game, players sing, they chant and roll the die to either defend democracy or drain the swamp.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Team Red, your mission is clear, flood the Capitol with as many units as possible. You will need them to get inside to stop the steal and find Mike Pence. Team Blue, your duty is to protect the Capitol and all those inside.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: January 6th has reached its climax and Mike Pence's fate rests in the balance.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: So, as you can hear, it builds to a low point, right? And critics say that it reduces a shameful and violent day in U.S. history into entertainment.
Well, I'm joined by co-creator of the game, Christopher McLaren.
And, Christopher, thanks so much for being here.
CHRISTOPHER MCELROEN, CO-CREATOR AND DIRECTOR, "FIGHT FOR AMERICA!": Absolutely. Thank you, Audie.
CORNISH: So, I understand you actually had Capitol Police involved in helping you with this game. What was the goal and how did they help?
[06:45:02]
MCELROEN: Sure.
So, I'm the artistic director of the American Vicarious. We are a small, non-profit arts organization based in Brooklyn, New York. Our mission is to create works that explore the gap between America's ideals and America's realities, and the things that unite and divide us. And so, when we set out to create this piece, we did not set out to create a game about January 6th, but rather use game mechanics to explore the state of democracy and the gamification of democracy.
And so, we did consult with former U.S. Capitol Police officers in the development of this, and made very clear that our objective is not to -- to make light or to turn the events into a game, but again, rather use game mechanics to explore where we are as a democracy.
CORNISH: And I think with a lot of multiplayer games now that people are familiar with, you have a role, right? So here, instead of being like a wizard or a dungeon master or whatever, you might be a Capitol Police officer, or you might be a Proud Boy.
Can you talk about what happens to people as they're playing? Is there a particular person or incident who you saw kind of transform by the -- the play, so to speak?
MCELROEN: Well, it's designed to make you think about America when you arrive. So, we ask you a question, what about America is worth fighting for? And then from there we assign you to play on either Team Red or Team Blue. You are given a historical character that was present at the Capitol on January 6th. And then we enter the -- the space where there is a 14-foot model of the U.S. Capitol, 10,000 hand- painted 28 millimeter miniatures, and we engage in a series of icebreakers, for lack of a better term, to try and create a sense of instant community.
And then the game begins. If you're playing on Team Red, your objective is to get inside the Capitol. If you're playing on Team Blue, it is to prevent that from happening. Once the game begins, we incentivize you to win the game, which is a metaphor for our democracy. The game only works if people participate. The same is true for our democracy.
And as people engage in -- in gameplay, we have seen people really surrender to the notion of winning the game. CORNISH: One of the things that I want to ask before I let you go is
why. We're in this moment where, you know, a lot of January 6th, people who were convicted of crimes have gotten a pardon. There has been a kind of rewriting of what that history was. Why did you think this was necessary?
MCELROEN: Well, because the history is actively being rewritten. And when we talked to former U.S. Capitol Police officers, they expressed that concern. And so, what we're trying to do with this piece is to reflect the -- the reality of that day as it is actively being rewritten.
It -- we live in a -- we're living in a moment where elected officials are being assassinated in their homes, where then president, the nominee for president, Trump, was a -- an assassination attempt a year ago. So, we're living in a moment of extreme political violence. And we're using this piece to have a conversation about this American moment.
CORNISH: Christopher McElroen is co-creator and director of "Fight for America!"
Thank you for having this conversation with me. Appreciate it.
MCELROEN: Thank you.
CORNISH: Up next on CNN THIS MORNING, President Trump is giving a deadline to Russia to end the war in Ukraine, but is he just playing into Putin's hands?
Plus, is "Superman" super woke? The man of steel caught in the middle of a culture war.
And, the dream season continues for the big dumper. And if you're wondering why they call him that, it's because he's got a lot of junk in the trunk. Seattle Mariners Cal Raleigh became the first catcher to win the MLB's home run derby.
And more from the group chat after this.
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[06:53:12]
CORNISH: So, President Trump figuring out what a lot of other presidents learned the hard way. Vladimir Putin can't be trusted. The president is giving his Russian counterpart 50 days to agree to a peace deal with Ukraine, or face crippling new tariffs.
Senator Lindsey Graham likes the strategy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Fifty days will go quicker than you think. And I'm hoping we can get Putin to the table and end this war. But I know what will happen on day 51. Those who continue to help Putin prop up his war machine, you will get crushed by the United States economically.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: And Trump is also vowing to send patriot missile defense systems to NATO for shipment to Ukraine.
I want to welcome to the chat, CNN global affairs analyst Kim Dozier.
Kim, one of the things that's interesting here is that I -- I was reading that Putin told Trump that he needed 60 days to achieve his goals in Ukraine.
KIM DOZIER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Yes.
CORNISH: I don't want to do a bunch of math, but there's something to that amount of time that Trump has offered.
DOZIER: Yes, that was about ten days before Trump made this announcement. So, essentially, Trump is giving Vladimir Putin 60 days to finish whatever he needed to do in Ukraine, and then time's up.
The scary part about that is that they can do a lot in 60 days. They've got troops that have been pushing in their summer offensive at several points along the invasion line, plus they have upped their drone attacks to the point where it's hundreds a night. And that is terrifying all of Ukraine and making the Ukrainian forces choose. They only have so many patriots and other air defense systems.
CORNISH: Yes.
DOZIER: So, they're having to move those air defense systems from military installations to civilian cities to protect them. And that picking and choosing, the Russians can take advantage of on the battlefield.
[06:55:05]
CORNISH: Yes. Even Trump himself was saying, I think we played earlier that, you know, he'd have a phone call and then Putin would knock down a building.
DOZIER: Yes.
CORNISH: This is a change of fortunes for Zelenskyy. Here's how he said thank you.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT (through translator): I am thankful to President Trump for his readiness to support defense of our people's lives. This war continues only because of Russia, because of Putin's wish to continue it, to prolong it. Russia is trying to make the war like a new normal. This should never be agreed upon.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CORNISH: Ashley, I loved earlier that you said that -- that former President Bush also had his moment where he thought he could somehow have a different relationship with Putin.
DAVIS: Yes, absolutely. I mean, obviously -- and what I said, I would love to hear what you think about this too. Everyone realizes that they need Putin in regards to the larger geopolitical issue. But at the end of the day, you can't trust him.
DOZIER: Yes.
DAVIS: And so I think that Trump did think that he was going to be able to negotiate with him or his strength of foreign policy was going to be helpful, but he's obviously realizing he can't.
DOZIER: Yes, it seems to be that what Trump is doing now is preparing his base for a change in policy. He's messaging, messaging, messaging to them. Thought I could trust this guy. He's untrustworthy. Got to pivot. But don't worry, it's not going to cost you anything --
WRIGHT: Yes.
CORNISH: Yes.
DAVIS: Yes.
DOZIER: Because now --
WRIGHT: That's the fundamental part.
DAVIS: Yes.
DOZIER: We're going to have the Europeans paying for it. The problem with that is, the U.S., up to this point, has given about $67 billion in aid. The Europeans have given $77 billion to $78 billion in military only aid. And they're facing an uphill climb in terms of their economies. How are they going to pull Ukraine out of this buying U.S. weapons? They don't have the money to do that.
CORNISH: OK, you guys, I want to stick -- not with this, actually. I'm going to move on to something else, but it's somewhat related in that the conversation on the right about what the U.S. does is about, are we the world's protector, and should we be, and what should that cost us?
And that is my pivot to the "Superman" movie.
WRIGHT: Smooth.
(CROSS TALK)
CORNISH: I did my best.
WRIGHT: Smooth transition.
CORNISH: The question is "Superman," is he super woke? And it depends on who you ask. So, basically, the latest entry into this franchise, which is owned by our parent company, Warner Brothers, it had $122 million opening weekend. But in the course of the marketing and the conversation, there's been all of this controversy about the perceived politics in the plot line. Left wing streamer Hasan Piker seems convinced it's about the Israeli-Hamas conflict.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HASAN PIKER, LEFT-WING TWITCH STREAMER: Even if James Gunn came out and swore on his mother's life that this was not an analog to Israel- Palestine, I'm telling you right now, they're just -- it's -- it's lying, OK.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: OK. So, James Gunn actually got to answer this. He's the film's writer and director. He has said multiple times in multiple interviews, it's a fictional conflict in the movie. It's not based on any current conflict. But it does draw on reality for some inspiration.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JAMES GUNN, DIRECTOR/WRITER, "SUPERMAN": I think people ask me a lot about, oh, is this a stand in for this country, or is this a stand in for this? I'm like, you know, honestly, I was just writing a story. And the story was, what if Superman really existed in a world that was somewhat like ours?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: OK, as total geek that I am, comic books, superhero stories, they are carriers for our vision of ourselves. Like, it always is a thing. If you look at "Superman" covers going back many, many years, he's fighting the Klan. He's fighting Nazis. Truth, justice, and the American way. Like, this is the one dude who's extremely political. Am I -- no other nerds on this panel?
DAVIS: No, I've never watched "Superman."
WRIGHT: I like anime. I like anime.
CORNISH: OK, Kimberly Dozier, help me out.
DOZIER: I love -- I love Superman. Yes, because, look, it's -- he fights injustice wherever he finds it. That's what I grew up with. That's what I thought used to make him the ultimate American superhero, because that's what the U.S. has always tried to do in places like Iraq, Afghanistan, et cetera. How can you call him woke?
CORNISH: Well --
ROCHA: Well, also, the other side of that is what the -- on the right they see as an immigrant coming in to save everybody, and they see an even (ph) billionaire, an evil billionaire. They're like, whoa, whoa, whoa, they're probably talking about Trump and them folks invading our country.
This is where our politics have devolved into because of social media.
CORNISH: Yes.
ROCHA: There ain't nothing woke about Superman. He's been the same since I was trying to read the comic books when they would come in on the comic strips on Sundays.
DAVIS: I think woke is the wrong word. I just don't think they're using it correctly. I mean, woke was what happened, I think, with -- what we were talking about earlier with Budweiser and how -- but this isn't crushing --
ROCHA: This was in the green room, not here.
DAVIS: Right, in the green room. Yes.
ROCHA: Just so we're clear. We're talking about Budweiser.
(CROSS TALK)
[07:00:01]
DAVIS: This is --
CORNISH: That's your actual group chat. This is actually the news program that we're doing.
ROCHA: You're talking about me getting (INAUDIBLE).
DAVIS: But I don't think this is -- obviously, it's not hurting people going out and watching the movie. But I just don't think woke is the right word. Whether he did have some sort of subconscious, you know, level, I -- I don't know. It just doesn't matter.
CORNISH: Yes.
WRIGHT: This is a cynical take -- this is a cynical take, but I feel like there's no better promo that you can get right now --
DOZIER: Right.
WRIGHT: Than Hasan Piker being like -- Hasan Piker being like, this is woke.
CORNISH: Right. That's true.
WRIGHT: Yes, it's (INAUDIBLE).
CORNISH: OK, you guys, group chat. We covered it all.
WRIGHT: (INAUDIBLE).
CORNISH: Thank you for waking up with us and talking about this with us. "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.
[07:00:00]
