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Justice Department Asks Judge to Unseal Epstein Grand Jury Testimony; ICE Director 'Will Allow' Agents to Wear Masks During Raids. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired July 21, 2025 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

M.J. LEE, CNN ANCHOR: And finally, this hour, the world's No. 1 golfer, Scottie Scheffler, is one step closer to career Grand Slam after clinching his first open championship.

[06:00:13]

Scheffler cruised to victory at Royal Portrush in Northern Ireland, closing Sunday's round with a four-shot victory for his fourth major title.

The dominant performance left his rivals in awe, with Rory McIlroy saying, quote, "None of us could hang with Scottie this week."

Scheffler now needs a U.S. Open victory to complete his Grand Slam, something only six other golfers, including McIlroy, have ever accomplished.

And thank you so much for joining us here on EARLY START. I'm M.J. Lee in Washington, and CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: A rare bipartisan push as lawmakers demand a full release of the Epstein files. But will it actually satisfy the growing call for answers?

CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. TIM BURCHETT (R-TN): I'm ticked off at everybody. Look, this thing should have been handled.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: The political headache for President Trump.

Plus, could we see Epstein coconspirator Ghislaine Maxwell testify? What a former Epstein lawyer wants in exchange.

Harvard back in court over the Trump administration's federal funding freeze. Could there actually be a deal on the table?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR KAREN BASS, LOS ANGELES: These masked men pull up in unmarked cars and jump out and detain people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Masked protesters not OK in Trump's book, but why he says masked ICE agents are a must.

Plus, rivals on the court united off the hardwood. The message and the cause bringing together the stars of the WNBA.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS MARTIN, COLDPLAY LEAD VOCALIST: One (ph) --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: A little kiss-cam calamity. How that viral Coldplay moment is now driving a broader conversation about money, power and workplace relationships.

It is 6 a.m. here on the East Coast. You see a live picture there of Washington, D.C., of course.

Good morning, everyone. I'm Erica Hill. It's Monday, July 21st. Nice to have you. I'm in for Audie Cornish today, coming to you from New York. Thanks for joining us on CNN THIS MORNING.

It is, of course, the story that President Trump just can't seem to shake as the calls grow louder from both the public and across the aisle for the Department of Justice to release more information in the Jeffrey Epstein case.

Over the weekend, Mr. Trump calling the case the, quote, "Jeffrey Epstein hoax," blaming Democrats and what he calls "troublemakers" for the controversy.

Meantime, the growing number of lawmakers demanding action on a resolution co-sponsored by Kentucky Republican Thomas Massie and California progressive Ro Khanna. That push would force the full House to vote yes or no on releasing the Epstein case files.

Among the cosigners, 16 lawmakers who typically would not agree on, frankly, much of anything, like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Marjorie Taylor Greene.

Another cosigner, Republican Tim Burchett of Tennessee, says the recent decision by the Trump administration to try to unseal grand jury testimony is just the beginning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): On my bill to release the Epstein files, not only do I have Republican Thomas Massie. I got Marjorie Taylor Greene. I got Lauren Boebert. I got Tim Burchett.

BURCHETT: I applaud the president for wanting to release those files. I think it's a good start.

I caution America, though, when -- if we need to have some sort of way to filter out the innocents in these things.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Democrats really leaning into this moment as a way to needle the president after six months of a presidency which has largely dismantled any opposition attempting to stand in Trump's way.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): So, the president, blaming Democrats for this disaster, Jake, is like that CEO that got caught on camera blaming Coldplay. OK? Like, this is his making.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: It all comes back to the kiss-cam. But we're going to hold that for a little bit later in the show.

Joining me now to discuss: Isaac Dovere, CNN senior reporter; Sara Fischer, CNN media analyst; and Michael Warren, senior editor at "The Dispatch." Good to see all of you bright and early on this Monday morning.

Isaac, when we start with these efforts that we're seeing here, these bipartisan efforts in the House, there's a question of whether or not you can get enough "yes" votes. There's also the question of what does this actually do?

EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Yes. And this is something that will take time. And time may not be in favor of those who want this to go away.

Even if the grand jury testimony is released, that could take weeks. It could take longer.

And all along the way, we have just conversations about this, questions about it. And it's clearly not going the way that some people want it to, even as the president has tried to say, stop talking about this and tell his allies in politics and conservative media to stop talking about it.

[06:05:10]

I mean, I was really struck by last night Mike Johnson was on with Mark Levin, the conservative host, and said that he was agreeing that we can't waste our time on Epstein and other stuff going on here. That's what Levin was saying. Johnson was agreeing.

This was Johnson just last Tuesday. He said it's a very delicate subject, but we should put everything out there and let the people decide it.

That's the pickle that people who have really engaged in this conspiracy for years find themselves in here. They've talked it up. They've said that there's more stuff.

And now that they -- the president is there saying -- going in, saying that he was going to get all this stuff released. And J.D. Vance and Kash Patel and all the rest. They have to figure out how they're going to say that there's not more stuff to release.

HILL: You know, Isaac points out, you point out an important point, right? That there is still potentially weeks to come just because of the calendar, of all things.

And to that point, Michael, as we -- as we look at where things stand despite all of these efforts, it may be distraction with other stories or, you know, simply the president trying to dictate by Truth Social posts.

It's remarkable that none of that seems to be working.

MICHAEL WARREN, SENIOR EDITOR, "THE DISPATCH": It is. That you would think all the things that -- that Donald Trump supporters have been maybe at odds with or in contradiction or some sort of cognitive dissonance with Donald Trump, he's been able to overcome that.

This is different. I think, in some ways, partly because Donald Trump is at this point a lame-duck president. There's no other election for him to -- to run in. And I think a lot of people are thinking about what happens after he's gone.

It's also something that that's really become sort of a core tenet, almost a -- almost a quasi-religious belief among a certain portion, a very vocal portion of his base. And that's not so easy to -- to wave away.

Look, I think there are a lot of people taking advantage, say, on the Democratic side of that cognitive dissonance and trying to sort of poke fun at this.

But we're also getting in kind of a dangerous territory here, where the conspiracy theories begin to -- you know, you start making fun; you start sort of poking and saying, hey, look at this contradiction.

And then you start sort of feeding into those same conspiracy theories that there's something here.

The basic facts of the case are already out there. I have some questions about -- specifically about Jeffrey Epstein's 2008 plea deal with the Department of Justice. That's something that would be interesting.

But the sort of more titillating aspects of this, we -- we know what the story is. We know what he did. We know what Ghislaine Maxwell did. She's in jail right now because of it. There's not much more there.

But -- but these politicians can't help themselves. In playing into it, I think it's -- it's a real problem on both sides of the aisle here. HILL: Sara, so much to that point. It is -- it is really something how

this is gaining steam on a much broader or with a much broader audience, right, than -- than where it initially began.

In fact, my colleague Brian Stelter pointing out that a search of Epstein's name on YouTube, filtered only to show videos uploaded in the last week, found more than 40 with more than a million views each, a number of them featuring late-night TV hosts roasting Trump.

But the fact that this has found such a broader audience and has some staying power also speaks to the narrative in many ways.

SARA FISCHER, CNN MEDIA ANALYST: Absolutely. So, when you take a look at the issue that's at the core of the Epstein case, there's actually two. One is child exploitation, which has always been such a hot- button issue on the -- on the right and amongst Trump's base.

And then the other is deep-state cover-up. Right? Kash Patel, Dan Bongino ahead of entering the FBI, a big rallying cry was the deep state. The government is trying to cover this up.

And so, this was a core case for the MAGA right.

And how this has evolved is Democrats are now seizing on this issue, because to Michael's point, when there's a lack of information, or it looks like there's information being covered up, that's the best way for conspiracies to fester.

And Democrats are seizing on that opportunity, seizing on some of these conspiracies to try to put pressure on the president. This has now, then, created a situation where this topic, this story, is hot on both sides of the political aisle. Both sides have something to politically gain from it.

And so that's why, in part, it's becoming so, so, so viral.

I also think that this is one of those things where every time Donald Trump or an ally tries to, you know, fan [SIC] the flames and say, there's nothing to see here, it motivates people to say, hey, wait a minute, I think there is something to see here.

And so, I don't think that this is going away from the news cycle anytime soon. And just to the point at the top about this lingering -- Isaac was saying this. You have Congress coming back to vote -- if they were to do something, Ro Khanna and Massie -- in September.

We are still in July. So, this is, like, 6 to 8 weeks where this is going to continue to build up until Congress, if they do, can take any action on it.

HILL: Yes. Buckle up. It's not going anywhere anytime soon. All right.

All right. Group chat, stay with me. Much more to discuss, of course, throughout the hour.

Still ahead here on CNN THIS MORNING, President Trump threatening the Washington Commanders to change the team's name again or else.

Plus, how one mistake led one man to a multimillion-dollar win.

And Harvard versus the White House back in court today. Will the ivy's millions in federal funding be restored?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANURIMA BHARGAVA, CRIMSON COURAGE, COORDINATOR OF HARVARD ALUMNI AMICUS BRIEF: What we're seeing here is -- is basically an attack on Harvard.

The goal is to narrow our ability to think, to teach, to voice, to learn in a way that is open.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:15:22]

HILL: We are almost 15 minutes past the hour. Here's a look at your morning roundup.

An off-duty U.S. Customs and Border Patrol officer is in stable condition after being shot in a botched robbery in New York City.

Police say the 42-year-old was attacked by two men on Saturday and added there's no indication he was targeted because of his job. No arrests have been made. A person of interest, though, is in custody.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sorry about the aggressive maneuver. It caught me by surprise.

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HILL: That aggressive maneuver is actually what saved a Delta plane from colliding with an unseen B-52 bomber.

The pilot said, quote, "Nobody told us about the bomber."

After air traffic control cleared the flight to land in Minot, North Dakota, the plane did land safely.

And these are the odds I think we'd probably all like to have: winning the lottery not once, but twice, and in the same day.

This Massachusetts man bought his first ticket, but then mistakenly believed the final drawing had already happened. So, he went to another store, bought a second ticket and matched all five numbers on both for a grand prize, as you see on that check there, of $2 million.

He says he's been playing that same combo of numbers for quite some time. Guess it finally paid off.

He did, though, just miss that Powerball number, which was five. Straight ahead on CNN THIS MORNING, some states now calling on ICE

agents to unmask. Why the Trump administration says those masks have to stay on.

Plus, the biggest stars of the NBA [SIC] -- WNBA demanding bigger paychecks.

And going live to Boston, where the fate of Harvard's funding is in the hands of a judge today.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:21:11]

HILL: One of President Trump's winning campaign issues turning into a bit of a negative six months into his second term, as more Americans believe his immigration crackdown has gone too far.

One of the major concerns: ICE agents wearing masks while detaining people and taking them into custody in often terrifying, chaotic sweeps.

The acting ICE director insists those masks are vital to the agents' safety.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TODD LYONS, ACTING ICE DIRECTOR: If that's a tool that the men and women of ICE to keep themselves and their families safe, then I'll allow it.

I know a lot of elected officials have put forward legislation or proposed legislation about banning of the masks, things like that.

I would also want, you know, elected officials to help us hold those people accountable that do dox or threaten an ICE officer or agent or their family. I think that would go a long way.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: A majority of Americans, 55 percent, say the president has gone too far when it comes to deporting immigrants living in the U.S. illegally. That's up ten points since February.

Meantime, a growing number of Democratic-leaning states and cities are weighing proposals to ban federal immigration agents from wearing masks and to also require those officers to display their identification when making arrests.

Joining me now to discuss, Jillian Snider. She's a retired NYPD officer and an adjunct lecturer at John Jay College.

Jillian, it's good to have you with us this morning. There's a lot of back and forth here when it comes to the masking of ICE agents, as you know; whether or not they're properly identified when they're going into some of these raids or making some of these arrests. You just heard from the acting director of ICE there. You said there's

a -- there's a larger issue here, though, too, in many ways, of public trust. How so?

JILLIAN SNIDER, RETIRED NYPD OFFICER/ADJUNCT PROFESSOR AT JOHN JAY COLLEGE: Good morning, Erica.

So, I understand the need to keep federal agents safe. And law enforcement goes out there every day, and they put their lives on the line and they make arrests. But they also wear identifiable features.

When you have agents, or anyone that's representing law enforcement, go out there and actually take an overt enforcement stance, they need to have something that's identifying them as law enforcement, because if not, the public just -- the trust wanes. And then you don't have the -- the amount of legitimacy within the institution of policing that we need.

HILL: To your point, as you point out, what we see from -- from local officers, the assistant secretary for DHS, Tricia McLaughlin, has said that state and local restrictions would, quote, "demonize," in her words, these agents.

Does it, in some way, detract from the job that they're able to do if they are forced to show their faces, if they're forced to be properly identified?

SNIDER: I wouldn't think so.

So, there is a distinction, and what I'm hearing is these are officers who are going out and actually making arrests, where they are taking people off the streets. They are not officers or agents that are acting in an undercover capacity.

So, those that are undercover, that aren't taking enforcement, those would have -- they could wear anything that's non-identifiable. And that's to help them do their job, to help them infiltrate situations where they need the upper hand.

And I get that. I worked as an undercover, where I didn't want my presence or my capacity to be known.

But when you are going out there and actually taking people off the street, putting people in handcuffs, taking them into custody, you have to have something on your clothing, outermost garment, that's identifying you as police.

And more so if you're arresting people, there should be some way to identify who you are.

HILL: What do you think is missing from this conversation?

SNIDER: A lot, but there's -- there's -- I understand there's a need. Like, what we are seeing is publicly needed. A lot of people agree we need to go out there. We need to remove violent people from the streets. Some of the people that are being removed from the streets pose a threat to public safety. No one disagrees with that.

But there has to be a sense of legitimacy. There has to be a sense of trust. Because the general public does not make a -- they don't distinguish between federal agents and local law enforcement.

So, when you have federal agents going into jurisdictions wearing masks, not letting their identity known, that hurts and hinders the operations of local law enforcement, because then that community fails to trust the local law enforcement that are trying to keep them safe.

[06:25:14]

HILL: There has been a significant amount of money in -- in the -- in the big bill -- That, of course, was just signed into law by the president -- in terms of extra funding for ICE, extra, extra money, $170 billion being allocated for immigration enforcement and border security.

I know you have concerns about funding at the state and local level. Do you -- do you see at this point, six months in, that there is enough coordination between federal agents and state and local?

SNIDER: Right now, I'm nervous about -- I love the Big, Beautiful Bill and the terms that it's trying to emphasize public safety.

But one of my fears is that it is not prioritizing local, municipal, and state cops. Those are the people that are answering 911 calls, going to routine calls for service, dealing with members of the public every day.

So yes, do we have to fund federal agents? Do we have to fund our borders? Of course. But do we need to fund where the majority of crime happens? Absolutely.

HILL: Jessica Snider, really appreciate your perspective this morning. Thank you.

SNIDER: Thank you.

HILL: Still to come here on CNN THIS MORNING, an American murdered in Greece, his ex-wife now among the main suspects. How a custody battle allegedly escalated into a cold-blooded attack.

Plus, the kiss-cam seen around the world. Why the couple caught at a Coldplay concert has everybody talking.

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