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Rep. Johnny Olszewski (D-MD) is Interviewed about Protests in Israel; California Pushes for New Map; John Bolton is Interviewed about Ukraine; New Leaked Audio from Israeli Military Intel Chief; Sandwich Becomes Symbol of D.C. Defiance. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired August 18, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Again today for the House Oversight Committee. Over the next two months, the Republican-led panel is expected to bring in nearly a dozen high-profile officials. Today, the former U.S. Attorney General Bill Barr is expected to be deposed.

And frustration boiling over in Israel this morning. Some of the largest protests since the start of the war in Gaza erupted across the country over the weekend. Hundreds of thousands of Israelis demanding a deal to free the hostages, something their prime minister does not seem inclined to pursue as he plans to expand the war instead.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BENJAMIN NETANYAHU, ISRAELI PRIME MINISTER (through translator): Those who are calling today for an end to the war without defeating Hamas, not only hardened Hamas position, and delay the release of our hostages, they also ensure that the horrors of October 7th will be repeated, and that we will be forced to fight an endless war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: My next guest, Democratic Congressman Johnny Olszewski of Maryland, who actually just met with the prime minister in a group last week. He joins me now.

Good morning. Welcome to the program.

REP. JOHNNY OLSZEWSKI (D-MD): Good morning.

CORNISH: So, it sounds like you were pressing the prime minister in the way that these protests are, calling to address the humanitarian crisis and for a ceasefire deal. What -- did you have the same conversation with him, based on what he told us earlier, what you just heard, that this is going to strengthen Hamas position?

OLSZEWSKI: Yes. Thanks for having me again.

And we went to Israel with that clear message, that we join with the overwhelming majority of Israeli citizens who want to see the hostages released and the war ended. People want to see humanitarian aid rushed into Gaza, and we want to have a secure future. And so, I had the opportunity to go directly and share that, with the

delegation, directly with the prime minister, that ending the war is actually in the best interest of the long term security of Israel, ending it as soon as possible is best, and that we -- we can and we should have Egypt or some other international force there to ensure that Hamas does not return to power, that we have the aid returned, the hostages returned as well, and that we can begin the process of rebuilding in the Gaza Strip.

CORNISH: What was his response? OLSZEWSKI: Very similar to what you just played there, Audie. And

unfortunately, it was unclear to me, in the room with the prime minister, just as it's unclear now, when he actually thinks those objectives will be reached or what the clear metrics for those military objectives are.

The truth is, what happened is, in October 7th was terrible tragedy. And when I visited, I also visited the site of the Nova Music Festival and one of the kibbutzes that were attacked. And clearly Hamas cannot or should not be in control. That's been reaffirmed by even the Arab League. So, an incredible opportunity to move forward for peace. But continuing this war in perpetuity is not the way to actually get there.

And so, it's unclear to this Democrat that the prime minister has a clear plan for ending the war. I think you saw the protests over the weekend where Israeli citizens are stepping up and speaking up to want to see those hostages returned, to what -- they want to see humanitarian aid, and they want to see -- make -- to make sure that Hamas does not come to power. So, these are all shared objectives. But I really just question whether or not the prime minister has a clear plan to end this conflict.

CORNISH: I believe you're on the House Foreign Relations Committee. So, I also want to ask you about this meeting with Ukraine that's happening at the White House, along with all of these European leaders coming.

I want you to listen to the -- President Trump's envoy, Steve Witkoff, talking about what he's hoping for going forward.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE WITKOFF, SPECIAL ENVOY TO THE MIDDLE EAST: We are going to get to a trilateral. And what we're trying to accomplish on Monday is, get some consensus from President Zelenskyy and his team. We had some really good, specific, granular conversation on the -- on the plane ride home with President Zelenskyy about what he would be seeking. And we don't think that there are any obstacles in that -- in that -- in -- in that conversation that we heard.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: There was a lot of criticism of the president's meeting with Putin this weekend. Do you see obstacles, or do you see this as one step towards actually reaching some kind of deal? OLSZEWSKI: Yes, it's always concerning anytime we have a president

roll out the red carpet for a dictator, which is exactly what happened here. President Trump's meeting with President Putin failed to meet the basic objective that he outlined of a ceasefire deal. It's certainly encouraging information from the special envoy, Mr. Witkoff. But what I will tell you is, the details are murky, which is so consistent and so true with this administration, unfortunately. And, you know, his boss, President Trump, seemed to undermine the security guarantees that he hinted at in his statement in a Truth Social post just the other day.

[06:35:05]

It's really discouraging that president -- the president of Ukraine is not included in these conversations. We got to make sure that we have those trilateral conversations. I'm excited to see that President Zelenskyy is in Washington, D.C., today. I'm excited that European leaders are with him. But I'm saying the same thing about Russia and Ukraine as we are about the conflict in the Middle East. We have to have a ceasefire deal. We have to end the hostilities so that we can then move forward with a peace deal.

And so, there seems to be some inconsistent messaging coming out of the Trump administration here. If true, it's certainly encouraging, but not sure that it is given some of the recent comments on social media by the president.

CORNISH: OK. Congressman, thank you so much for your time.

OLSZEWSKI: Thank you.

CORNISH: All right, as Texas Republicans get ready to gather for another special session to redraw maps for Congress, today, California is preparing to do the same thing. California Governor Gavin Newsom is pushing for the state legislature to pass new maps which would give Democrats up to five more seats in Congress. Now that -- the maps would need to pass with supermajorities in both chambers, and could as soon as this week. Voters in November would then get the final vote to approve them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): We need to disabuse ourselves of the way things have been done. It's not good enough to just hold hands, have a candlelight vigil and talk about the way the world should be. We have got to recognize the cards that have been dealt. And we have got to meet fire with fire.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: And the govern-ator (ph) defending his state's current method of drawing congressional maps. Arnold Schwarzenegger posted this picture over the weekend wearing this t-shirt, which says "terminate gerrymandering."

All right, group chat is back. Sabrina, you've been reporting on this for a while. And I did have a

question about how these maps are being redrawn in Texas with more Latinos in each district. Tell me, what's the thinking there?

SABRINA RODRIGUEZ, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": Yes, the argument that we're hearing Republicans make in Texas is that they are not violating the Voting Rights Act, that they're actually, you know, trying to increase opportunity for Hispanics. They're saying that, you know, three of the five districts that they've drawn, they've made a higher percentage Hispanic.

Now, the sort of debate here is whether that actually gives Latinos more voting power. There is one district in particular where it is clear that they're making a gamble, they're making a bet that --

CORNISH: Yes. It's -- you've got the Texas 28th where it goes from 72 percent of a Hispanic population to 90 percent.

RODRIGUEZ: Yes.

CORNISH: Which struck me because Democrats used to say demography was destiny, and they used to talk all the time about how excited they were about Hispanic voters in Texas.

RODRIGUEZ: One hundred percent. And that's an area where we've seen Republicans really kind of try and seize on an opportunity. This is an area that has historically always voted Democratic, that is heavily Latino and has -- has identified with the Democratic Party. But a lot of people felt Democrats have taken them for granted. Republicans, you know, flooded the zone with money in the last few election cycles and sort of see a prime opportunity.

But in my reporting down there, what we see is, while, yes, these districts were drawn out to be, you know, plus seven, plus ten Trump districts. When we look at how people voted in other down ballot races, they still voted Democrat.

CORNISH: So, it's still not clear this will do what they want it to do.

RODRIGUEZ: So, it's still -- it's still not clear. It's a gamble.

CORNISH: That's not stopping California, obviously, because the governor there has to do this kind of over this independent commission they had, which the govern-ator was referencing.

NOEL KING, CO-HOST AND EDITORIAL DIRECTOR, "TODAY, EXPLAINED" PODCAST: Yes.

CORNISH: And I think the way it's going to work is, they kind of hit pause on the independent commission for a while, and it will come back later. Help --

KING: Yes, and Newsom -- Newsom will have a few more checks. It's not something that he can just do. But it does seem -- I mean, if you look at what's been going on in California and the way he is selling this to his state's residents, his constituents, it does seem like this is a pretty popular move. I mean this is -- and you heard him say it, like, this is a vendetta. They did it and now we're going to do it. And as an American, as a voter, I don't love it, but you hear him saying, we've been backed into a corner. We have no choice.

Voters do seem to be, in a surprising way, because redistricting, gerrymandering, these are not like sexy topics.

CORNISH: Yes.

KING: But this is one where I feel like Americans are. They're getting out in the streets to protest it, which feels unusual. So, something about this moment is hitting a little bit.

CORNISH: Toluse, last word to you.

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, STAFF WRITER, "THE ATLANTIC": Yes, just the broader idea of being able to fight back. That's something that Democrats want. They don't want to hear, I can't do this because of a commission. They look at what Trump is doing at the -- at the federal level. He's not saying, I can't do this because of certain laws or certain restrictions. He's going forward and federalizing the police in D.C. or doing what he wants to do. And so, Gavin Newsom is showing his voters and trying to show the national voters that he can do the same thing as a Democrat with a supermajority in California.

CORNISH: All right, you guys, stay with me. We got a little more to get to here.

[06:40:01]

Next on CNN THIS MORNING, can President Trump broker peace between Ukraine and Russia? Former Trump national security advisor, Ambassador John Bolton, is here next.

Plus, we're living in the future. The robot Olympics just wrapped up in China.

And we want to know what's in your group chat. Send it to us now on X. We're going to be talking about ours after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CORNISH: It's 44 minutes past the hour, and here's your morning roundup.

Another Alligator Alcatraz lawsuit goes before a judge today. The focus of this one, making sure detainees get legal representation. And it comes after attorneys warn of a, quote, "black hole" for their clients, saying that they've been blocked from accessing them.

[06:45:02]

The Department of Homeland Security tells CNN there's a place in the detention center for attorneys to meet with their clients. You may soon have to pay more for Arizona iced tea. They've been $0.99

for nearly 30 years. But the tea maker tells "The New York Times" that the president's tariffs could change that. It's not the drink, it's the can. Twenty percent of the cans are made from imported aluminum from Canada, which is now facing a steep 50 percent tariff.

Kickboxing, a relay race, table tennis and soccer. But the competitors are all robots. China has just wrapped up its robot games. The bots crashed into each other and toppled over repeatedly during soccer matches. And in track and field, one collapsed mid sprint, going well. More than 280 teams from 16 countries competed for a chance to showcase its advances in A.I.

And we're now just hours away from the president meeting with President Zelenskyy at the White House. So, what kind of meeting are we going to see? Will it be like the last time we saw these two at the White House in February, where they got into a shouting match and the meeting ended shortly after? Will there be one on one talks, like their chat ahead of the pope's funeral in April? The two actually met again in June at NATO, where both men walked away, seemingly having to have moved on, moved past that February blowup.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It was very nice, actually. We had a little rough times sometimes. He was -- couldn't have been nicer. I think he'd like to see an end to this. I do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Joining me now to talk about this, John Bolton, President Trump's former national security advisor and former U.S. ambassador to the U.N. under George W. Bush.

Good morning, Ambassador.

JOHN BOLTON, FORMER TRUMP NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: Good morning. Glad to be with you.

CORNISH: I've heard a lot of people talk about this meeting with Putin over the weekend in not great terms. You say there's a silver lining to this bad summit. What's that silver lining?

BOLTON: Well, I think it's a mistake from Ukraine's perspective to try and seek a ceasefire before serious negotiations begin. Now, that's a minority position. I certainly concede that. But you have to look at the history of what happens in these kinds of disputes when you had a ceasefire along the existing battlelines. There's a very grave risk for Ukraine that the battlelines get -- gets frozen and as talks drag on and drag on and drag on, that ceasefire line becomes the new boundary. I think Ukraine, if it has the support of Europe and the United States, and that's a big caveat, should continue the struggle against Russia, if at all possible, should try to put some of Russia's gains in reverse, and show to Putin that the use of force is simply not going to prevail. That would be the better outcome. And now Trump, by saying he doesn't want a ceasefire, may wake the Ukrainians and may even wake the Europeans up to the danger of the ceasefire scenario.

CORNISH: I also want to ask you about the security guarantees. We're hearing from Steve Witkoff, referencing this, talking about a potential security guarantee that is not being in NATO, not having Article V capabilities, but somehow would make Ukraine border's safe. How did you interpret this, and do you believe it given your experience negotiating with Russia?

BOLTON: Well, I listened to Witkoff's answer to Jake Tapper yesterday several times, and the more I listened to it, the less I understood it. After he mentions Article V, Article V-like guarantees, he talks about enshrinement in Russian law of a commitment not to seek further territorial gains in Ukraine and not to seek further territorial gains in Europe generally.

I don't understand what -- what the connection is, if he's talking about counting on Russian promises and Russian laws not to commit further aggression. We've got a long history where that hasn't been the case going -- dating back to the days of the Soviet Union. And I don't understand how Article V fits in there.

I'm more worried, actually now, by reports that seem to be more and more common in the news media, that -- that what the president told the European leaders and Zelenskyy in his phone call after the Alaska summit was that Putin's proposal was, give me all of the Donetsk province that I -- my troops don't already hold, and then I will commit not to seek any further territory. If that's the deal that the president and Putin agreed on, it's going to run into a brick wall when they -- they pass it on to Zelenskyy.

CORNISH: We were hearing from the president on Truth Social, and you came in for criticism where he was basically arguing, people like yourselves are kind of talking in a way that prevents peace from happening, that prevents the end of this war.

[06:50:06]

What's your response to that, and even sort of how the president is approaching Russia in this process?

BOLTON: Well, I think the criticism he's making is silly. You know the old saying, if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

I think the president's approaching this process because he wants a Nobel Peace Prize. And I think he's worried that it may be slipping away from him because if, as I think most observers saw the Alaska summit, I didn't see any retreat by Russia from any of the principles that Putin and others have been articulating for years. And I don't see any real signs that whatever Zelenskyy might say would come anywhere close to accommodating the Russians, meaning that while peace is possible always at some point down the road, it's not going to happen anytime soon. And that means that the president's hopes of getting the Nobel Peace Prize are getting more remote.

I might also just say one small point. The NATO (ph) Peace Prize rules require that nominations for the year in question, that would be 2025, have to be submitted by January the 31st. So, of course, the Nobel Peace Prize Committee, I suppose, can always ignore its own rules. But if they stick to their rules, Trump's not eligible for it this year anyway.

CORNISH: Before I let you go, what do you want to hear out of this meeting today, and specifically from European leaders who obviously all scrambled to be here? I don't even know what success would look like for them coming out of today. What do you think it is?

BOLTON: Well, as I say, my view on the ceasefire question is very much a minority. So, I expect the Europeans and probably Zelenskyy will continue to push for a ceasefire and let Trump answer why he doesn't want one. Trump -- Trump and I happen to agree, coincidentally, on the ceasefire point. His reasons are different from mine, and I think incorrect. He thinks he can get to a full-scale peace plan more quickly that way. I don't think that's possible.

CORNISH: John Bolton, President Trump's former national security adviser and former U.S. ambassador to the U.N., thanks so much for speaking with us.

BOLTON: Well, thank you.

CORNISH: All right, here in D.C., protesters coming out in the hundreds of thousands, blocking highways. My correction, this is actually in Israel. Blocking highways, military headquarters and politician's homes in Israel. This is one of the largest coordinated demonstrations since the beginning of the war in Gaza. Organizers say more than 400,000 people showed up across Israel demanding the return of the hostages and an end to that war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANAT ENGERST, MOTHE ROF HOSTAGE MATAN ENGERST (through translator): Today, an entire nation has come together in a state of emergency. Today, everything stops for an effort to save and bring back the hostages and soldiers.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: In the meantime, this all comes as new leaked audio from former Israeli military intel chief called the deaths of 50,000 Palestinians, quote, "necessary," even if it was the death of children.

I'm going to bring in CNN's Jerusalem bureau chief, Oren Liebermann.

Oren, good morning.

And, first, give us the context for these remarks and help us understand what was said.

OREN LIEBERMANN, CNN JERUSALEM BUREAU CHIEF: Audie, this comes from a long audio recording or recordings in what appears to be a conversation leaked to Israel's Channel 12 News, with the former head of Israeli military intel, Major General Aharon Haliva.

Now, it's unclear who he's talking to, but a lot of this is about who is to blame for the Hamas-led terror attack on October 7th. He has taken responsibility. He was the first senior Israeli military officer to resign over his responsibility there. But he spends much of this recording trying to cast the blame on others.

That's not the part that was stunning. In part of the audio recording, he talks about the number of Palestinians killed by the Israeli military in Gaza. And listen here to what he says. In one part he says, "for everything that happened on October 7th, for every one person on October 7th, 50 Palestinians must die. It doesn't matter now if they are children." He then goes on to say in another part of the recording, "the fact that there are already 50,000 dead in Gaza is necessary and required for future generations."

Now, the head of the military intel isn't the person who sets the conduct or the policy for how the Israeli military operates during a war, but the comments are stunning nonetheless.

Now, it is worth pointing out, of course, that Israel is under increased criticism for its plans to occupy and take over Gaza City, including increasing accusations of intentional starvation in Gaza, as well as war crimes and genocide, accusations that Israel has vehemently denied. But we have seen more of those charges, especially over the course of the last few days. For example, the Danish prime minister said that Netanyahu, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu that is, has become a problem within himself.

[06:55:05]

The New Zealand leader said just a few days earlier that Netanyahu has, quote, "lost the plot." So, you see this increase in criticism and then you see these recordings coming from the former head of Israeli military intel, Major General Aharon Haliva.

Hamas responded to these comments, saying it, quote, "confirms that crimes against our people are high level decisions and official policy from the enemy's political and security leadership."

These recordings, Haliva responded to Israel's Channel 12 after they were leaked. He said it was unfortunate they were leaked, and he says they were taken out of context. But the content of them is certainly stunning -- stunning, Audie.

CORNISH: Oren, can you tell me a little bit about those protests as well? I mean as you have hostage families who are being more vocal, I know there are others that are criticizing this. What's happening in the country today?

LIEBERMANN: The number of the protesters yesterday was -- was perhaps the largest we've ever seen. Certainly one of the largest. Organizers say more than 400,000 people taking to the streets of Tel Aviv, Hostages Square and the surrounding area. And then there were other protests and demonstrations throughout the country. They say more than a million participated in what were a grassroots call for a nationwide strike, to send a clear message to the government to demand the release of the hostages and the comprehensive deal to end the war.

Now, the government was absolutely dismissive of it. Netanyahu said it was only strengthening Hamas, and he played up his own strategy of -- of the -- the military escalation we're seeing, the plans to take over and occupy Gaza City. Other -- or rather far right members of Netanyahu's coalition equally dismissive. But organizers say they're going to keep up the effort. And you can feel the energy on the streets of Tel Aviv. We were there last night. And that's the goal, to put as much pressure on the government as possible to get to a deal to see the remaining 50 hostages brought home.

CORNISH: All right, Oren, thanks so much for this reporting.

Back here in Washington, we're going to talk about protests here, and specifically a man who lost his job and his sandwich but started a resistance. Sean Don, a Justice Department employee, becoming somewhat of a hero among community activists after he hurled a hoagie at a Customs and Border Protection officer last weekend. The Justice Department charged him with a felony. He faces up to eight years in prison. But now the sub sandwich has become a symbol. At protests in the capital this weekend, demonstrators held up their own subs and signs reading, "yes, I threw it." There were 68 arrests.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is a takeover. And it's not just something that's affecting D.C. It's something that's a model that he's promising for New York, for Chicago, for Baltimore, for Oakland. It's part of a fascist takeover of the whole country. And this is an emergency.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: OK, group chat is back.

Noel, I want to talk to you. You actually live in the city.

KING: Yes.

CORNISH: I don't know if you've been seeing sandwich imagery and paraphernalia.

KING: Where I live, not so much.

CORNISH: OK.

KING: But what I'll tell you is that, I mean, you see the video of Mr. Dunn (ph) throwing the sandwich and then running down the street. Nobody's -- nobody's endorsing assaulting a law enforcement officer. But there is something kind of funny about this man throwing a sandwich and then getting a felony assault conviction, potentially facing eight years in prison, losing his job. I mean, we might have expected that.

But I think the sense in D.C. is like, OK, many people in D.C. do agree that crime is a problem. Some people are happy about President Trump's move. Some are not. A man threw a sandwich, Audie. Like --

CORNISH: Yes. And after January 6th --

KING: Yes.

CORNISH: I think there's always that, what about-ism of, like, what it -- what it means to assault an officer under the Trump administration.

OLORUNNIPA: Exactly. And so much of this is about symbolism. If you look at actually where crime is a very significant problem in D.C., that's not where they're sending in the troops. They're sending in the --

CORNISH: Oh, where khakis and pink shorts is throwing sandwiches, it's not the high crime area?

OLORUNNIPA: Not -- not quite.

KING: Sure.

OLORUNNIPA: It's -- it's clearly something that President Trump wants to have the imagery of people patrolling the mall with their Humvees and really showing that he's protecting, you know, the tourists that are coming into the country, and even the foreign leaders that are going to be coming in. It's not really about trying to solve the problem, it's trying to -- it's about getting the right optics for (INAUDIBLE).

CORNISH: And, Sabrina, I think, fundamentally, these protests are, as you heard from this person saying, it's not just a D.C. problem. It's not just here. It's not just -- but is that like resonating?

RODRIGUEZ: Yes, I mean, the president himself said this is a template for other cities that he wanted to start here but that, you know, there was crime ridden cities across the country. And he's trying to perpetuate this broader narrative that he's, you know, launched for years against, you know, Democrat run cities, Democratic run states. So, this is just part of that.

But I think what's interesting is what we're seeing just from the first days of the crackdown. And we're seeing, you know, he talked about, oh, they're going to crack down on violent crime. But really, the majority of the arrests we're seeing is really immigration enforcement, which ties to, obviously, a much bigger part of Trump's agenda.

CORNISH: Never mind -- I've been captivated by, in my group chats anyway, the social media videos that are surfacing of people dealing one on one with officers on the street.

KING: Yes.

[07:00:07]

CORNISH: I think we're kind of underestimating the power of that kind of imagery that spreads on its own. That's not protests. Just everyday people saying, this is what I'm seeing in my neighborhood and on the street. And, honestly, the potential for something to go wrong.

KING: Yes.

CORNISH: All right, you guys, thank you so much for being with us. We got a lot going on this week. Thank you for waking up with us. I'm Audie Cornish and "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" starts right now.