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CNN This Morning
Police: Suspect Killed 2 Children, Injured 17 at Catholic School; New CDC Director Ousted, Other Key Officials Follow; 'Born After the Storm': A Generation Shaped by Disaster. Aired 6-6:30a ET
Aired August 28, 2025 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: An unspeakable tragedy. Two children shot dead during mass at their Catholic school. How did this happen again?
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CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.
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MAYOR JACOB FREY (D), MINNEAPOLIS: Don't just say this is about thoughts and prayers right now. These kids were literally praying.
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CORNISH: The outrage, the heartbreak, and the search for answers this morning.
And our agency is crumbling. That's the word from inside the CDC as the new director and other key leaders are forced out.
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GOV. RON DESANTIS (R), FLORIDA: DHS is taking people out of there, and they're moving them out.
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CORNISH: Alligator Alcatraz nearly empty. The governor says it's because of deportations. Is something else going on?
And 20 years after Hurricane Katrina, FEMA employees warn that safeguards put in place after the storm are being rolled back. Now, those workers are being targeted.
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AMARI WILSON, NEW ORLEANS RESIDENT: It's something as small as just making sure your phone is charged when you hear the crack of thunder.
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CORNISH: The generation that inherited Katrina. How the storm's impact lives on through those who never lived it.
It's 6 a.m. here on the East Coast. Here is a live look at the sunrise over New York City.
Good morning, everybody. It's Thursday, August 28. I want to thank you for joining us this morning. I'm Audie Cornish.
And here's where we begin this morning: in Minneapolis with a community shattered by gun violence following a school shooting just days into the new school year. Two children, ages 8 and 10, are dead. Seventeen others are injured.
Now, it happened at the Annunciation Catholic School. The students were celebrating mass, marking their first week back at school, when shots rang out.
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WESTON HALSNE, SHOOTING SURVIVOR: The first one, I was like, what is that? I thought it was just something. Then I heard it again. I just ran under the pew, and then I covered my head. My friend Victor, like, saved me, though, because he laid on top of me. But he got hit.
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CORNISH: The shooter, 23-year-old Robin Westman, died of a self- inflicted gunshot wound and had graduated from the school in 2017.
What police describe as a manifesto was left on social media by the shooter and is now being reviewed. The attack is being investigated as domestic terrorism and a hate crime.
This is the fifth school shooting in the U.S. in just the last four weeks.
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FREY: This is an unspeakable tragedy, but how many times have you heard politicians say that exact phrase before? And yet, these school and church shootings happen again and again.
But here's the thing. Thoughts and prayers, while they're appreciated, they're not enough. These kids were literally praying.
Of course, it's on us to talk about doing the right things, but more importantly, it's on all of us to act to make a difference.
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CORNISH: Joining me now to discuss Juliette Kayyem, CNN -- CNN's senior national security analyst and former assistant secretary at DHS.
Juliette, thanks for joining us.
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Good morning.
CORNISH: So, first, I just want to start with the investigation itself, because there is now a name. There is more information about their social media.
Where does the investigation go from here?
KAYYEM: Well, it's going to focus mostly on motive. Was there -- was anyone else involved in supporting this? We understand, at least right now, that the guns were bought lawfully.
But I think the reason why we continue to investigate, even though the perpetrator committed suicide, is to determine whether there were any moments during this period in which there might have been an intervention.
We tend to think of a killing like this as a lone wolf, someone radicalizes decides that they're going to do something horrific and tragic.
But along the way, as we've seen, the -- the killer is -- is posting things, is -- is saying things, is buying weaponry, is staking out this -- this school and church.
And that is why we have to get better at understanding what is that trajectory, so that there might be interventions. These interventions work. Anything from red flag laws to family and friends, understanding the violence that may come.
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The second issue is, of course, guns. I mean, we have to talk about it each time this happens. These are particularly American phenomenons [SIC], in which schools and, in this case, a school and church were -- were targeted.
I don't have much optimism for gun regulation at this stage. But we can -- we can -- we must continue to talk about it, to talk about this aspect of American society that has gone unchecked by regulation or laws.
CORNISH: When you look at Minnesota's gun laws, there are a number of restrictions. And from what is known so far, the shooter legally obtained firearms, passed background checks, permit checks; didn't show a prior record or even risk factors that might have enabled intervention, say red flag laws or other existing Minnesota gun laws.
So, when you talk about further policy, what do you mean?
KAYYEM: In particular? We need to look at the -- the sort of, you know, red flag laws. And it -- it seems incomprehensible to me, looking at the evidence we have now in the build-up to this killing, that there weren't people in and around the killer who -- who understood what was happening in terms of the level of violence, the essential promise to do something like this. The -- the obsession with other shooters.
All of those things are essentially like a kit that -- that active shooters use, and mass shooters use, before they -- they perpetrate. And so, those are the kinds of things that we need to look at. Look, you know, I mean, between nothing bad happening and a mass
killing or a shooting at a school, there's a lot of steps along the way. And -- and people feel right now in this society that we have no agency, that we're just a country that is going to live with gun violence.
The good news, at least, is that there has been a lot of research in the -- in the public safety and criminal justice field, that there can be interventions, both supported by public policy, but also by communities in this case.
We can't -- as the mayor said, we cannot accept that this is --this just happens every couple of months. That is just -- it is -- it is -- it is not -- it's not acceptable.
CORNISH: It's Juliette Kayyem, CNN's senior national security analyst. You'll be reporting throughout the day. Thank you.
And coming up on CNN THIS MORNING, at first, she was critical. Now she's grateful. D.C.'s mayor shifting how she's talking about the surge in federal law enforcement.
Plus, rescuers race to the scene after a massive attack in Ukraine's capital leaves people trapped under rubble.
And a shakeup at the CDC causing chaos in the agency. Is the HHS secretary going back on a key promise?
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ROBERT KENNEDY JR., HHS SECRETARY: I support the CDC. My job is not to dismantle or harm the CDC. My job is to empower the scientists, if I'm privileged to be confirmed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So --
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CORNISH: The big question at one of America's most vital public health institutions this morning: Who's in charge?
CDC director Susan Monarez has been fired less than a month after she was sworn in. The White House says Monarez "is not aligned with the president's agenda of Making America Healthy Again."
Her lawyers accuse Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. of, quote, "weaponizing public health for political gain and putting millions of American lives at risk."
A person familiar with the situation tells CNN that she clashed with Kennedy over vaccine policies and also his plans to share research that could draw links between immunizations and autism. Here's Monarez at her confirmation hearing just two months ago.
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SUSAN MONAREZ, FORMER CDC DIRECTOR: I -- vaccines absolutely save lives. And if I'm confirmed as the CDC director, I will -- I commit to making sure that we continue to prioritize vaccine availability.
The FDA has, in the production of the COVID-19 vaccine, had approved the mRNA vaccines as -- as safe and had demonstrated efficacy associated with them.
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CORNISH: Three other top CDC officials are also out after raising the same concerns on vaccines.
Joining me now in the group chat, Betsy Klein, senior White House reporter; Xochitl Hinojosa, former Justice Department official; and Mike Dubke, former Trump White House communications director.
So, Betsy, since this is kind of out of the Trump administration, out of the White House, can you talk to me about this clash?
In the hearings, she spoke highly of Trump. She talked about her ability to follow the kind of typical protocols that are medically recommended. So why did this fall apart?
BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: I think ultimately, it was a clash between her and Robert F Kennedy Jr. over this issue of a number of staffers that he wanted her to let go.
And because he didn't agree with them on a number of issues like vaccines, like HIV prevention, other topics. And she stood up for them, we are told in one of those meetings, and it just wasn't able to -- she wasn't able to break through, the White House ultimately firing her late last night.
But I think what this really underscores to me is how loyalty is prized over expertise in Trump one -- or Trump two, compared to Trump one.
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CORNISH: Yes. And we know there's some changes to -- there's an official merit hiring memo out that's, like, this is how we are going to look at applicants to federal jobs going forward. Here are some questions we want to ask you.
And one of them is just like, can you do what this White House wants? Can you follow the agenda of the president?
Can you guys -- I don't know -- help me understand how that background comes into play here? Jobs that are not supposed to be political.
XOCHITL HINOJOSA, FORMER JUSTICE DEPARTMENT OFFICIAL: Yes. I think that what Trump learned from his first term and his second term is that he needed people around him at all levels, not just the political appointees, but the career officials within agencies to be loyal to carry out the president's agenda.
And he learned that very quickly. And that's why on day one, you had mass firings at the FBI and Justice Department. You're seeing what's happening now at HHS, when they don't agree on vaccines or other science-based research.
And so, you see it across the board. You saw at the Fed recently where he wants lower interest rates. He is not getting the lower interest rates. So, then he -- he see -- he fires, you know, the head of the Fed.
CORNISH: The same question has been going for so long. Ever since COVID, it was very clear that people were fundamentally disappointed with how the CDC and other public health officials messaged or even their decisions around vaccines. In a way, I feel like this was coming.
MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, and this is the part that really disturbs me about this, because we had such confusion at the CDC during COVID. And we had so many mixed messages coming out of both the -- at the beginning of COVID, during COVID, during the Biden administration, and now with -- with Secretary Kennedy at HHS.
And I think one of the -- one of the best things that this agency can do, whether it be HHS or CDC, can -- can give some clarity to the American people on health issues. And this just confuses and muddies the water. I will say --
CORNISH: Is it possible right now? I mean, I just want to read to you, Demetre Daskalakis, who was the director of the National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases -- it's a long title -- at the CDC, also resigned.
In their open letter, said, "I am unable to serve in an environment that treats CDC as a tool to generate policies and materials that do not reflect scientific reality."
DUBKE: And I would make the argument that the same reality was during the Biden administration, with the masking and all of the other edicts that came down from the CDC. And this is what I'm trying to point out.
I -- as somebody, like, stuck in the middle of -- of -- -from the Biden administration to the Kennedy's ruling over the CDC. I think we've got this level of confusion that is hurtful for the American people.
To your point about Trump, 1.0 to 2.0. I think you're absolutely correct. Those were hard lessons learned in Trump -- Trump 1.0, that whether you want to call it the deep state or the bureaucratic state or whatever you want to call it, a lot of the things that we tried to accomplish in 1.0 were stymied by career -- career bureaucrats. And when they came in to 2.0, they were -- they definitely wanted to
root that out. Unfortunately, I think that's fine. It's -- ever several agencies.
CORNISH: Any scenario where a person does -- Is there any scenario where expertise counters policy ideas and goals?
DUBKE: Yes.
CORNISH: Like, is there a literal benchmark that's like -- there's a thing, you know. It's raining. Like, it's not a bureaucratic pushback to be like, it's raining.
And so, these questions around vaccines, masks, I really understand what you're saying. But these people are resigning, because they're like, what? Like how -- how -- I need help.
DUBKE: Well, I'm not -- I'm trying to answer your question.
CORNISH: Yes.
DUBKE: I think you and I are in violent agreement here about --around health policy.
CORNISH: Yes. But I meant pushback.
DUBKE: I think when it comes to --
CORNINSH: You were talking about the experience.
DUBKE: My personal experience with the president was that he enjoys that -- that level of argument, that -- that pushback.
I did not -- I did not have an incident with -- with him, at least personally, in which -- I mean, we argued, but it -- it -- at the end of the day, this is -- and I've said this very often. This is a chief executive that likes dissent and likes hearing both sides of the argument.
My concern here is just really focused on the CDC and focused on HHS. And I think we've got a situation where the White House has had to make a -- was probably forced to make a decision between Kennedy and the leadership of the CDC, and they made their decision.
CORNISH: That's what --
HINOJOSA: But I also think that, when it comes to the career professionals, there's a reason why they're in these agencies. And it's to be a check on the political appointees.
You don't want every decision coming out of the federal government to be a political one. And so, it's important to have the back and forth, a potential argument. Bring good ideas.
CORNISH: Just being a check position, you as -- as you said, just kind of arbitrary pushback. HINOJOSA: Well, so that's the problem, is President Trump doesn't like
having a check in the federal government. His political appointees don't like it.
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And what I'll say about the CDC is just like the Fed, just like economic policy, should be independent. We should really start thinking about having our health policy be independent.
We should not be -- our health -- health policy and our health should be something that should not be politicized. Right? So, we should really think, as a country, whether we should go that direction.
CORNISH: I'm going to be thinking about this more, because I don't know how you depoliticize this conversation after this last couple of years.
You guys, we've got a lot to talk about this hour.
After the break on CNN THIS MORNING, living with the legacy of Katrina. Twenty years later, how the storm is still shaping lives, even for people who did not live through it.
Plus, new deportation numbers show how far the Trump administration's immigration crackdown has gone.
And a beautiful shot of the skyline this morning in Chicago.
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MARLON, NEW ORLEANS RESIDENT: It's so much deeper than losing a home or a fresh pair of Jordans. My parents described it like seeing a scene out of "The Walking Dead."
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CORNISH: That was a student who was part of a podcast series called "Born After the Storm," which sheds light on the generation born in the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina.
A lot of the kids in this series said their families actually didn't talk to them about it all that much. That doesn't mean it didn't leave a mark.
So, this week on "The Assignment," I spoke to a high school senior named Amari. She's 17, the same age her mother was when Katrina hit 20 years ago. We talked about the lasting impact on her family, two decades later.
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WILSON: My -- my -- my grandma, her cabinet is full of canned goods.
When the storms come in, get your gas, get your money. My mom is always -- my mom and my dad. Charge all your devices. Because what if that one -- that one battery percent that's left could, you know, make a phone call that saves us. Small stuff like that, that could make a big difference in how you survive a storm.
CORNISH: Do you do the same thing? Has that been passed on to you? I'm comparing notes as people who --
WILSON: Yes.
CORNISH: We didn't live it, but we're living with the legacy of it.
WILSON: Yes, I'm definitely an overpreparer. I have a bag, a pouch, a list of everything, just in case. And I always say, just in case. I have it just in case. And there's always a time I would use it.
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CORNISH: You can hear more of that conversation and find new episodes of "The Assignment" every Thursday wherever you get podcasts.
And straight ahead on CNN THIS MORNING, the search for a motive this morning, after two children were killed in a school shooting in Minnesota. We're going to be live from the scene after the break.
Plus, senators hoped the head of the CDC would stand up to her vaccine skeptic boss. Now she's out.
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