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Hundreds Attend Vigil after Minneapolis School Attack; Minneapolis Suspect Killed Two Children and Injured 17; New CDC Director Ousted; FEMA Staffers on Leave. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired August 28, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We lost two angels today. Adults were protecting children. Older children were protecting younger children. And as we heard earlier, it could have been significantly worse without their heroic action.

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AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Two children are dead this morning after a shooter fired through the windows of a Catholic church in Minneapolis during mass, 14 other children and three adults are injured.

Good morning, everybody. I'm Audie Cornish. I want to thank you for joining me on CNN This Morning. It's half past the hour and here's what's happening right now.

A massive attack in Kyiv overnight killing several people, including a 14-year-old child. Missiles and drones rained down on the Ukrainian capital for hours last night. Multiple people were trapped under the rubble of homes. More than 1,500 rescuers are working to dig them out. New numbers out this morning show ICE has deported nearly 200,000 people since President Trump's inauguration, it comes as Alligator Alcatraz in Florida is nearly empty this morning. An e-mail shared with the AP said zero migrants would likely still be there in a few days. Florida's governor suggests deportations are the reason why, but a judge has ordered the facility to close in October.

And people in Minneapolis are rallying around the Catholic church where the shooter opened fire last night. Hundreds of people gathered at a nearby park for a candlelight vigil to honor the victims. Two children, ages eight and 10 have died. And at that vigil, the speakers lined up and gave calls to action against gun violence.

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KEITH ELLISON (D), MINNESOTA ATTORNEY GENERAL: It is just for us to send thoughts and prayers to the victims of this horrible crime. But my thoughts and what I'm thinking about is a national ban on assault rifles. My prayer is a national ban on these assault rifles.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CORNISH: Joining me now with more from Minneapolis, CNN Correspondent Leigh Waldman. Good morning, Leight. First, just tell me about the atmosphere overnight. We saw those vigils going late into the evening. What are you hearing?

LEIGH WALDMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Audie, we know so many people in this community feel deeply impacted, deeply affected by what happened here at the Annunciation Catholic Church. You can see the church behind us, the crime scene tape removed in one area from law enforcement earlier this morning. But I spoke with a woman as I was making my way here on a plane and she told me she lives two blocks from this church. And she said she knew it was a cliche to say, we never thought it could happen here, but she was in a state of shock almost watching her neighborhood where she's lived since 2008 on the news for something so horrible. She said that kids going to this Catholic school every morning were a part of everyone's neighborhood routine here. She's heartbroken by what happened.

[06:35:00]

So, we know that two children were killed, 17 people were hurt in this shooting. We know that the alleged shooter, according to law enforcement, says that the shooter, in this case, barricaded the doors and started firing through stained glass windows. He had three legally purchased firearms, a rifle, a shotgun, and a handgun. We've heard that theme of frustration with thoughts and prayers that are so often offered after a shooting like this one. There's frustration about that process that keeps happening. Listen to what the mayor of Minneapolis, Jacob Frey, had to say.

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MAYOR JACOB FREY, (D-MINNEAPOLIS): These were Minneapolis families, these were American families, and the amount of pain that they are suffering right now is extraordinary. And don't just say this is about thoughts and prayers right now, these kids were literally praying. It was the first week of school. They were in a church.

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WALDMAN: And that same message echoed by the governor Tim Walz as well. Now, we know investigators are continuing on with their investigation, trying to figure out the motive behind this devastating attack. Audie.

CORNISH: CNN's Leigh Waldman will be reporting there throughout the day. Thank you. The other big story this morning, the sudden ousting of CDC Director Susan Monarez, it's renewed the debate over the independence of public health agencies in the age of President Trump.

So, remember, the president took former infectious disease expert, Dr. Anthony Fauci, to task for pushing back on his pandemic messaging about masks and lockdowns.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: He loves being on television and we let him do it. Sometimes he says things are a little bit off and they get built up. He's called a lot of bed calls.

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CORNISH: Former CDC director, Tom Frieden, says, the agency is, quote, "now in grave danger of being extinguished, endangering all of our health and that the ouster undermines trust at a time when it is most needed."

I'm joined now by Dr. Chris Pernell, director of the NAACP's Center for Health Equity. Good morning. Thank you for being with us.

DR. CHRIS T. PERNELL, DIRECTOR, NAACP'S CENTER FOR HEALTH EQUITY, PUBLIC HEALTH PHYSICIAN, AMERICAN COLLEGE OF PREVENTATIVE MEDICINE FELLOW: Good morning. Glad to be here.

CORNISH: I recall during the period of the COVID vaccine rollout this sort of extra push to black and brown communities where public health officials thought, oh, they're going to be reluctant to take the vaccine. So, I think you understand the idea of lack of trust. So, how do you see what's going on now?

DR. PERNELL: Unfortunately, we are living in a politically manifested and engineered era of misinformation and disinformation that has fomented anti-science, anti-intellectualism, and anti-humanity, and we know that lives are being lost. We already have proof that with what has happened with the measles outbreak in the United States, and then the most recent violence at the CDC headquarters.

And this is a sad day in the United States, because not only is our health imperil, but our security has been imperiled by reckless leadership at the top.

CORNISH: Can you talk more about how this has changed public health work, for instance, it used to be you could just sort of say, well, look, it's science. That's enough. Everyone debate over. Now, there are way more questions and more demands for research. Can you talk about how that has changed the work and is that change necessary?

DR. PERNELL: That's because we've given way to influencers, we've given way to vaccine skeptics. Fact, research, and rigor no longer is the gold standard unfortunately in the public sphere, and that in itself is catastrophic. We've seen the public health infrastructure decimated, whether through mass layoffs, whether through the ripping and gutting of funding, and we've seen science openly ridiculed, speculated upon and questioned, we haven't seen, a process of integrity where you ask a question and you wait to see what the data reveals. Rather, we've seen the political determinants of health play out in a way that misinformation and disinformation is poured into the science, therefore, corrupting the science.

And I say those who voted for Secretary Kennedy and have empowered him, they are not innocent. Their hands are dirty. CORNISH: One more thing, there are some changes underway now to, for instance, eligibility requirements for COVID vaccines. What kind of recommendations are you trying to make or how do you talk about it publicly when it may be different from what the government is recommending?

DR. PERNELL: I will still follow the science. I will still follow the data. Even most recently when we were educating our members in the NAACP, unfortunately, I could not go to the CDC to pass along recommendations around immunizations.

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Rather, I went to those bedrock public health groups or medical organizations like the American Academy of Pediatrics, like the American College of Obstetrics and Gynecologists, who will continue to make recommendations that keep the most vulnerable, that keep the young, that keep those with serious risk factors covered and protected.

Everyone should still know that COVID is an ongoing threat. We're living right now in the midst of a surge and a spike and roughly upwards of a hundred people are still dying weekly from this infectious disease in the United States of America. We cannot afford to be asleep at the will. Lives are at stake.

CORNISH: OK. That's Dr. Chris Pernell, director of the NAACP Center on Health Equity. Thank you.

DR. PERNELL: Thank you.

CORNISH: Next on CNN This Morning, a flip flop from D.C.'s mayor. Why she says she's now thankful for the federal surge of law enforcement.

Plus --

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This manifesto appeared to show him at the scene and included some disturbing writings.

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CORNISH: -- what investigators are learning from the writings left behind by the Catholic school shooter in Minneapolis. And FEMA employees on leave for a stark warning about where the agency is headed.

And we want to know what's in your group chat. What are you talking about this morning? We're going to talk about ours after this.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) FREY: What we know is that far too often people are robbed of that childhood because of this senseless gun violence. And don't let anybody tell you that it's not about guns, because it is.

PEGGY FLANAGAN, MINNESOTA LIEUTENANT GOVERNOR: We need to love our babies and our children more than our guns.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: The mayor of Minneapolis and the lieutenant governor demanding action after the deadly Catholic school shooting in the city. Police now turning their focus to a potential motive. Investigators say the suspect left behind what they call a manifesto. There were also videos published to a YouTube account, believed being -- believed to have belonged to the shooter, displaying weapons with anti-Semitic, anti-black and anti-religious messages painted on the side. The FBA -- the FBI says they're investigating the shooting as an act of domestic terror and a hate crime.

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CHIEF BRIAN O'HARA, MINNEAPOLIS POLICE: You know, what we've seen so far is just a variety of hate. You know, just really deranged comments and almost like an idolizing of previous active shooters. So, right now, we don't have a clear motive to establish for why he did this at the church today. We are obviously open to every possibility.

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CORNISH: Joining me now to discuss Shawn Turner, former communications director at U.S. National Intelligence. We heard the police chief there talking about how this shooter referenced other mass shootings. Can you talk about that? At this point I think we could pretty easily call it a trend where shooters are comparing themselves to past acts of violence.

SHAWN TURNER, FORMER COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR, U.S. NATIONAL INTELLIGENCE: Yes. Good morning, Audie. It's good to be with you. You know, I think this is a really interesting aspect of this. You know, I come from the Intelligence Community where we look for sort of patterns in people's behavior and we look for sort of idealization of our adversaries. And so, when we take that sort of model and we apply it to what we see with regard to these mass shooters you know, it -- time and time again, as you pointed out, we see similar types of behavior. We see this idea that there is a pattern in which people begin to pay attention to what previous shooters did. They begin to idolize them, they begin to study them, and that's a really strong indicator that they're going down a path of potential violence and acts against others.

And so, anytime something like this happens, you know, I can't help but to stop and to think about this from a -- from the perspective of how we work in the Intelligence Community, where we look for those patterns. And it's a difficult balance when we're talking about U.S. citizens, because -- CORNISH: Can I ask you more about this, Shawn? Just for a second,

because, you know, the first lady was saying that this illuminated the need for preemptive intervention in identifying potential school shooters. I've been hearing a long time about the breadcrumbs and the intelligence and social media postings. What is the deal with intervention at this point? Is that possible given the intelligence we have?

TURNER: You know, it's a difficult question because there's a balance between the kind of intervention that would allow U.S. to be able to know that something like this was going to happen or that someone is going down this path and our right to have our privacy protected.

You know, I often give the example of the Boston bombing and the Sarnia brothers. I studied that case in detail, and what we know, Audie, is that if we had the ability to look at their communication, you know, just days before that bombing, we would've seen it all. It was all there. And that's often the case with many of these shooters. If we have the ability to follow their communication and look at their communication, to understand what's happening inside their minds, then the indicators are very strong.

The challenge is that at the very same time as we're looking at those things, we're crossing a line that we're not ready to cross in this country with regard to giving up some of our privacy rights. So, it's a balance. It's a slippery slope, but it's one that we have to take a hard look at and make a place where we've got to make some adjustments.

CORNISH: Well, what do you think that investigators will be looking at next?

TURNER: Yes. Well, I was following sort of where the warrants are and where this investigation is going. I think one of the interesting aspects of this investigation is that there was a warrant issued for the school.

[06:50:00]

As we know, this shooter attended this school some time ago. Typically, if this had been a place that was just sort of randomly picked, we wouldn't typically see a warrant issued for the location. But investigators are going to be looking at whether or not the records indicate that this individual had some sort of conflict at the school, or whether there were disciplinary issues. It's all part of helping to paint that picture and help us understand exactly why the shooter chose this location.

I think this is going to be a tough investigation because, as we've seen from the manifesto, the writings, this individual had animus toward lots of different groups, lots of different situations in his life, and it's not really clear exactly what drove him to snap at the moment that he did.

CORNISH: Shawn Turner, former communications director at U.S. National Intelligence, thank you for your time. TURNER: Thank you.

CORNISH: OK. FEMA is defending a move to put several employees on leave in the middle of hurricane season. After those employees signed a letter to Congress criticizing the Trump administration's disaster preparedness. In a statement to CNN, FEMA says, quote, "It is not surprising that some of the same bureaucrats who presided over decades of inefficiency are now objecting to reform. Our obligation is to survivors, not to protecting broken systems."

So, the letter from the employees titled "The Katrina Declaration" warrants critical safeguards put in place after the storm are being eroded. The employees also accused the Trump administration of undermining their capabilities, installing unqualified leaders, and call for the agency to be shielded from political interference of the nearly 200 staffers who signed the letter, about three dozen used their names.

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CRAIG FUGATE, FORMER FEMA DIRECTOR: You got to remember, these people knew that by signing this, they were putting their jobs on the line. And I think that's one of the things we talk about in public service. There may come a day where you're going to have to make a decision that you cannot continue going in the direction your agency or your boss wants to go in and you have to be prepared to be fired. But that choice is not one taken lightly.

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CORNISH: We don't know yet just how many people were put on leave, but we're bringing in Jeremy Edwards, former FEMA press secretary to the Group Chat to shed some light on some things because your group chat is probably very busy right now.

I have to ask you this, I had covered the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, and at the time, FEMA was not looked upon kindly. So, help me understand why it's not valid for the administration to push the employees in one direction or another.

JEREMY EDWARDS, FORMER FEMA PRESS SECRETARY: Thank you for having me, and I appreciate that question. You know, I think every administration has its own prerogatives and has the right to come in and try to put in place priorities that it sees fit. And I would say that during the first Trump administration, the FEMA employees at the agency were very enthusiastically helping them implement those changes.

The difference between then and now is that, at that time, the agency was led by someone with disaster management experience. Fast forward to today, you have someone who has zero disaster management experience leading the agency. You also have a Secretary of Homeland Security who has put into place burdensome red tape, forcing the agency to do things that slow down the disaster assistance process.

CORNISH: I think the reporting is she -- Betsy, you can tell us, she signs off on any expenditures over a certain amount? BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Over a hundred thousand dollars. I mean, that's a clear example of how this isn't working. And we saw that during the Texas flooding where they weren't able to pre- position needed resources. We don't know, you know, how many lives were lost because of that.

CORNISH: So, do you get the sense that these folks waited until this anniversary to have this conversation? What do you read, and just the sheer volume of people who signed on, even if anonymously?

EDWARDS: Yes. I think that from Hurricane Katrina, the reason that we chose this date to issue that letter is that disaster, that catastrophe taught us some very hard-fought lessons. Number one is that you need someone who's an expert to lead the agency. Number two is that FEMA needs the flexibility to do its job, to get resources and people pre-positioned in a timely manner. And number three is that FEMA needs to be able to help state and local officials prepare for disasters.

And under this administration, they've gotten an F grade on each one of those hard-fought lessons and are rolling back the clock, taking us to a time where we could be on the raw end of another catastrophic disaster without a prepared FEMA.

CORNISH: Anyone else have questions?

XOCHITI HINOJOSA, FORMER DOJ DIRECTOR OF PUBLIC AFFAIRS: Well, I mean, I just -- and I want to get your sense of -- for states, a lot of what the secretary says is that she wants to give power back to the states. My sense is from state officials is that they need the help. They are already short staffed. If you look at Texas, they focus on redistricting instead of flood relief. So, is your sense based on working at FEMA that these state officials are ready and even want to take on that responsibility?

[06:55:00]

EDWARDS: Yes. I think there's two things to that point. One is I think we need to dispense with this idea that disaster assistance doesn't already lie with the states. At FEMA, we would say disaster response is locally and state executed, federally supported.

So, the federal government doesn't even come in until states actually need that assistance. And you know, when you have states like Texas, who is a very well-equipped state, that has a lot of capacity to do its own disaster response, request assistance after those floods within hours shows you that other states who aren't that equipped are going to need help, states like Mississippi or less -- other less resourced states.

CORNISH: That was an interesting moment too, because it was right when the administration was saying, look, states can do more. Texas was saying, we've done more. Look at us, we're ready. And then, that Texas flooding happened. And I feel like maybe there was a slightly more muted response from the White House after that. KLEIN: It's also going to disproportionately impact states that Trump won in 2024. So, I'm interested what Mike has to say about this because states like Florida, Texas, Louisiana, North Carolina, South Carolina, all impacted disproportionately to other states by extreme disasters. In hurricane season right now. I don't know if this is a winning political issue for the Trump White House.

MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, I don't think it's a winning political issue for any White House where you have a disaster hit and you don't have support from the federal government to assist the states.

My pushback on this is one is twofold, I'm sure in a -- that the White House is thrilled that 36 people identified themselves as they're looking to make changes within the agency. But on a more serious note, I also think that this -- that manifesto -- or sorry for using that word, that declaration that was used was more about the leadership that is coming from the White House and has been appointed to FEMA rather than anything, at least in my reading of it, anything that has come down that FEMA's not prepared to step.

In the Texas incident, you know, Texas did make the request, I know the a hundred thousand dollars that the secretary had to sign off on. But FEMA did arrive, did come. There's a question of whether or not hours were lost, but FEMA was there. So, I think we got to be very careful about this.

CORNISH: So, I hear what you're saying, they're -- FEMA's doing its job. And so, what's your response to this?

EDWARDS: I think my response to this is that what's happening and what we're seeing with this retaliation towards these people who signed the letter is a question of priorities. It took the -- it took, Kristi Noem and the administrator of FEMA nearly 72 hours to send help to Texas, it took them less than 24 hours to punish the people who called them out for doing that.

So, I think that when you have these types of sign-offs seen to happen at the highest level, from my group chat I've heard that there's over 900 items pending on her desk, waiting to be signed off on. That is inherently going to slow down the disaster response process, and it's something that doesn't need to happen. It's something that she could snap her fingers and end today.

CORNISH: It's funny, all of these stories have something in common, whether it's FEMA or the CDC, the idea of what is the White House's policy directive and how it is or is not followed. It feels like those things are coming to a head all these months after the mass firings.

KLEIN: It's also another example of loyalty over expertise and institutional knowledge. And you know, one of the things that this letter says that I think is really interesting is that FEMA isn't just about recovery, it's about preparedness. And, you know, state and local governments work very closely with FEMA to prepare for disasters, leaving them vulnerable in this situation. CORNISH: Yes. But do you feel kinship with the CDC? I mean, do you look -- I don't know if all federal workers right now are, you know, pretty much like, OK, things are bad. We're on the outs. But is there a sense that people -- they're acting similarly, open letters?

EDWARDS: Yes. I mean, I think, Mr. Richardson's leading comments when he came into oversee FEMA kind of underscored the sense at FEMA and across the agency where he told people not to get in his way. And I think that is a representative of how this administration approaches career civil servants who have decades of knowledge and experience, they say, shut up or get out. And I think that's what we're seeing at FEMA, at CDC, at EPA who also put a number of employees on administrative leave. And I don't think that's the right tact.

You know, as someone -- I served as a career civil servant at the Department of Justice during the first Trump administration, and even during that Trump administration, I felt like I was still able to give the people I was surrounded with advice and consent on how things should be done, and they may take it or leave it, but there was a mutual respect. Fast forward again to this administration and it is, you know, get with it or get out of the way.

CORNISH: Mike, can I let you answer that in our last moment?

DUBKE: Yes. Just quickly. And I'm going to actually disagree with --

CORNISH: Jeremy.

DUBKE: We're -- no, actually with you, Audie.

CORNISH: Oh, OK.

DUBKE: And what I'm disagreeing with is that the CDC, I think, is a policy difference. And that's what's playing out here, I think with the EPA and with FEMA, this has more to do with --

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