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CNN This Morning
Jimmy Kimmel Pulled Off-Air Indefinitely Over Kirk Comments; Donald Trump Feted at State Banquet in U.K.; Inside DOJ's Pursuit of the President: From Nixon to Trump. Aired 6-6:30a ET
Aired September 18, 2025 - 06:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
ALAYNE TREENE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Definitely, the -- the U.S. press. Since we didn't get questions yesterday.
[06:00:06]
MAX FOSTER, CNN ROYAL CORRESPONDENT: Alayna, we are going to be covering every twist and turn, aren't we? So, do stay with us.
We've also got some fun pictures, Brian, coming up, as well, where the Princess of Wales is taking Melania Trump out into the great outdoors here in Windsor with some child Scouts.
BRIAN ABEL, CNN ANCHOR: Looking forward to that. Alayna Treene and Max Foster in Windsor for us. Thank you, guys.
And thank you all so much for joining us here on EARLY START. I'm Brian Abel in Washington, D.C. CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.
AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Jimmy Kimmel pulled off the air. Who's next? CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BRENDAN CARR, FCC COMMISSIONER: We can do this the easy way or the hard way.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: First Colbert, now Kimmel. President Trump celebrating the fall of another late-night host.
The president also targeting Antifa, designating the far-left movement a terrorist organization, even though it's not clear how he can do that.
And a deadly day for law enforcement. Three police officers killed in Pennsylvania. Two others fighting for their lives.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUSAN MONAREZ, FORMER CDC DIRECTOR: I was fired for holding the line on scientific integrity.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CORNISH: A warning from the former CDC director. Why she's so worried about the health of your kids.
And happening now: a summit in the U.K. The deal British Prime Minister Keir Starmer hopes to close with President Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETE BUTTIGIEG, FORMER U.S. TRANSPORTATION SECRETARY: It's a very important choice, and she's going to make the choice that is right for her.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Kamala Harris revealed that she wanted Pete Buttigieg to be her running mate, so why did she ultimately pass on Mayor Pete?
It's 6 a.m. here on the East Coast. Good morning. Because it's 11 a.m. in the U.K. And here is a live look at the prime minister's residence.
President Trump arrived there just moments ago. We're going to talk more about that meeting in just a few minutes.
It is Thursday, September 18. I want to thank you for waking up with me. I'm Audie Cornish. And here's where we begin.
The fallout from ABC pulling Jimmy Kimmel show off the air indefinitely following threats from the Trump administration.
Now, this began on Monday with Kimmel's late-night monologue on the political reaction to the shooter charged with the murder of conservative activist Charlie Kirk.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JIMMY KIMMEL, HOST, ABC'S "JIMMY KIMMEL LIVE!": We hit some new lows over the weekend, with the MAGA gang desperately trying to characterize this kid who murdered Charlie Kirk as anything other than one of them, and doing everything they can to score political points from it.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: So, those comments were quickly picked up by right-wing media, who demanded the Trump administration take action.
FCC chairman Brendan Carr spoke to conservative podcaster Benny Johnson about whether broadcast licenses from ABC affiliates should be at stake over the comments.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARR: I mean, look, we can do this the easy way or the hard way. These companies can find ways to change conduct, to take action, frankly, on Kimmel or, you know, there's going to be additional work for the FCC ahead. (END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: What followed was pressure from the owners of local affiliates like Nexstar and Sinclair. ABC yanked Kimmel's show off the air.
In a social media post from the U.K., Trump congratulated ABC for canceling Kimmel's show and laid out his next target, saying, "That leaves Jimmy and Seth at NBC," before adding, quote, "Do it NBC!!!"
Joining me now in this morning's group chat, Stephen Collinson, CNN Politics senior reporter; Elie Honig, CNN senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor; Mike Dubke, former Trump White House communications director; and Meghan Hays, former Biden White House director of message planning.
Elie, I want to start with you, in part because I don't know if there's any legal ramifications to this. And I'm going to play a little bit more of Kimmel's comments just so people have a sense of where this monologue was going.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KIMMEL: On Friday, the White House flew the flags at half-staff, which got some criticism. But on a human level, you can see how hard the president is taking this.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My condolences on the loss of your friend Charlie Kirk. May I ask, sir, personally, how are you holding up over the last day and a half, sir?
DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: I think very good. And by the way, right there, you see all the trucks. They've just started construction of the new ballroom for the White House, which is something they've been trying to get, as you know, for about 150 years. And it's going to be a beauty.
KIMMEL: Yes. He's at the fourth stage of grief: construction. It's demolition, construction. This is not how an adult grieves the murder of someone he called a friend. This is how a four-year-old mourns a goldfish. OK?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Kimmel has had this platform for a long time. He's been very clear about his politics. In this situation, I think the issue was also him saying that the shooter was one of them. People took issue, certainly, with that description.
Does he have legal recourse?
ELIE HONIG, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, so Jimmy Kimmel, I do not believe, has legal recourse. ABC, however, could have had legal recourse. And here's why I say that.
OK. The First Amendment only applies to governmental actors, right? The First Amendment begins, "Congress shall make no law." So, Jimmy Kimmel cannot sue ABC, for example. They have the right. They can fire Jimmy Kimmel, because they don't like how his suit fits, because they don't like what he said. They can fire him for just about any reason.
But if ABC wanted to, in the face of the pressure -- and you just showed the clip from the FCC chairman, saying easy way or hard way -- they could have alleged that there was a First Amendment violation, if they had done nothing and then the FCC came down on them, which it seemed like is where it was going.
CORNISH: Yes.
HONIG: And the key question there legally is, is the government action coercive?
OK. There was a lawsuit against the Biden administration because they were engaged in what's called jawboning. Sometimes it's actually used in the cases. Meaning behind the scenes, they were lobbying social media --
CORNISH: Yes.
HONIG: -- to take down certain COVID-related posts.
And the court said, Well, did it cross the line to coercive? Some instances did. Some instances didn't. Although the Biden administration ultimately won, because the parties that sued didn't have standing.
CORNISH: Let me jump in here.
HONIG: But coercion is a key point.
CORNISH: Because the idea of coercion, and I want to play for you guys some more context from that interview, which I watched in its entirety with Carr. And he also talked about the sort of broader project that he felt the White House was pursuing here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CARR: I mean, look, NPR has been defunded. PBS has been defunded. Colbert is retiring. Joy Reid is out at MSNBC. Terry Moran is gone from ABC and now admitting that they are biased.
CBS has now made some commitments to us that they're going to return to more fact-based journalism.
And so, I think you see some lashing out from people like Kimmel, who are frankly talentless and are looking for ways to get attention. But, you know, their grip on the narrative is slipping.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Mike, can I ask you to comment on this?
MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, I think what we're seeing here, we are having this conversation beforehand about transparency. We're seeing, in real time, in public, government officials saying things that they used to say behind the scenes.
CORNISH: Is that the jawboning?
DUBKE: Well, jawboning.
CORNISH: yes.
DUBKE: If that's the legal term.
HONIG: But --
DUBKE: I'm going to leave it there. But you're seeing now in front of the camera what used to be said behind the camera.
But a lot of -- a lot of his points are there is a -- look, these are for-profit corporations that we're talking about here. There is being -- there is a cultural shift. I don't think we should be surprised that these for-profit corporations are recognizing that shift.
CORNISH: Yes. And Nexstar's statement on Kimmel: "Continuing to give Mr. Kimmel a broadcast platform in the communities we serve is simply not in the public interest at the current time," in talking about why they've made this decision.
It's fair to say Nexstar is also before the FCC, trying to get a $6 billion merger going. And so, for them, they're very vulnerable.
STEPHEN COLLINSON, CNN POLITICS SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: That's the point here, because the administration is using political pressure on corporations, who are involved in these merger situations, to do what many people would regard as infringements of free speech.
Now, obviously, this isn't just a new thing coming down the pike, but this is, over and over again, within a concentrated period of a number of weeks, that we're seeing the administration use this pressure.
And it comes down to a point, does who Americans see on the public airwaves, late-night show hosts, does that depend on what the president wants to see? I mean, they're making it pretty clear that he is personally trying to get rid of these hosts, largely because they are -- you know, have a long record of going against him.
CORNISH: But does it matter in the age of the Internet? I mean, you're looking at a --
COLLINSON: Possibly not. Right.
CORNISH: -- conservative media that has grown completely outside of that system, quite powerfully.
COLLINSON: And you have private media concerns which aren't necessarily so subject to the whims of the -- the FCC. But it does seem to be a case of, yet again, in this administration, using government power for political goals.
CORNISH: Let me make sure Meghan gets a word in here. We had Congressman Dan Goldman, Democrat. Here's what he sees.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. DAN GOLDMAN (D-NY): The companies that continue to cave to this completely improper behavior. And we saw it with ABC when they settled. We've talked with CBS. We now see it again with ABC.
We've seen it with the tech companies. We've seen it with law firms.
Donald Trump is a bully. He is a wannabe mob boss who will push the envelope to the end of the earth.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER BIDEN WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF MESSAGE PLANNING: So, I agree with Stephen. This is about power, and this is about control. And this is just one more way in going into civil society.
As the congressman said, you start with media, universities, law firms. He's doing all this systematically.
[06:10:03]
But this is not about free speech. It's about power. Whether or not the -- Disney could have fired Jimmy Kimmel, absolutely everyone can, you know, for what he's wearing. Absolutely. That's not a free speech issue.
But what -- we are silencing people for critiquing the president, and they are using the power of these mergers to be able to do that. And that is what is not right here.
And I think what's interesting is why there aren't more people speaking up about the government using the power to then silence media. We are running dangerously close to state-run media.
CORNISH: Can I ask you a question about what Carr said about narrative? And what I put to Stephen, which is you can have an alternative media, right? You -- there's a whole world where they can go and still make money, still have a large platform.
They didn't have the grip on the culture the way they used to. So, can you say if there's -- what a next step is?
HAYS: But I'm wondering what that -- what you mean by a grip on the culture? Because 50 percent -- Donald Trump did not win by a mandate, whether or not he says so or not.
So, half the country still is Democratic and has those beliefs. So, whether or not you think they're funny or whether or not you're staying up late to watch them is a different story. Their ratings we could talk about all day, about what TV ratings are. But that's not the issue here. They're using the power of the government to silence media
organizations, and that is not acceptable in our country. That is -- we are losing our democracy. They're dismantling democracy by doing this.
DUBKE: Can I -- can I defend you for one second? Because I think I took your -- I think --
HAYS: Was I attacking her?
DUBKE: And it was vicious. And I'm sitting right here.
What -- what I'm trying to say and what I took your question to mean is, there are so many other avenues for entertainers, for news to go out into the public now, with the Internet and all these other places.
The media doesn't exist as it did before --
HAYS: But that's not the point.
DUBKE: -- when there were three stations, and they did control the narrative. Now the narrative is -- is there's 1,500 different avenues one can take. And, you know, Jimmy Kimmel can find another way. He can. I bet you he's going to podcast next week.
HAYS: But this isn't about Jimmy Kimmel. This is about the government using their power and the merger here to control -- to control organizations and control corporations.
DUBKE: There were 40 million reasons for Colbert to go off the air. There are -- there were Democratic administrations, along with Republican administrations, going back decades, that have done this, as I said, in private.
And now, it's out in the open, and we're going, "Oh, my. Look what was said."
CORNISH: Yes. But I love you defending me, because vibe. But also, these mergers matter.
DUBKE: Yes.
CORNISH: These mergers matter. That's not -- if we look at this and just say, Well, gee, they must have really felt like there's a change in the narrative when they have billions.
DUBKE: But they're for-profit corporations.
CORNISH: But they have something at stake before the government.
DUBKE: Yes.
CORNISH: And so, if the government pulls a lever, legally, does that become a First Amendment issue?
HONIG: It's all about the "or else." OK. So where is that line? If you are a presidential administration. And let's go back to the
Biden example. And you contact Twitter at the time, and you say, "Hey, we think this post is incorrect. It has misinformation on it." You haven't crossed the line.
But if you say, "We think that post is incorrect. It has misinformation. And if you don't do something about it, we're going to have the CDC start taking a look at you," which they did. Both of those. They crossed the line, and they didn't. There's the line.
And here the "or else" could not possibly be more clear. When you have the head of the FCC saying "easy way or hard way," when you see him spiking the football in the end zone about, We got this guy. We got this guy, and these five are next.
There's the "or else." And that's what makes this different, I think.
CORNISH: Yes.
HONIG: And much more problematic.
CORNISH: Interesting in the -- after all these years of talking about cancel culture and things like that, we are at a moment where government is involved. And that's going to raise a lot of legal questions for people.
I want you guys to stay with me. Everyone's going to be talking about this all day. But there's other news.
Coming up on CNN THIS MORNING, a small Pennsylvania community shaken by the shooting deaths of three police officers.
Plus, President Trump declaring Antifa a terror organization. How would that work?
And CDC vaccine advisers under intense scrutiny. The decisions that could impact your health.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. DEBRA HOURY, FORMER CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER AND DEPUTY DIRECTOR FOR PROGRAM AND SCIENCE, CDC: Given what I have seen, if we continue down this path, we are not prepared not just for pandemics, but for preventing chronic health disease. And we're going to see kids dying of vaccine-preventable diseases.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:18:23]
CORNISH: More politics than pomp as President Trump begins day two of his state visit to the U.K.
The president arrived at the prime minister's country home moments ago for meetings with Keir Starmer. The wars in Gaza and Ukraine and trade deals are on the table. The talk follows a day of the royal treatment, complete with carriages parading troops and a military flyover and an elaborate state banquet with King Charles. And this toast by President Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KING CHARLES, UNITED KINGDOM: The ocean may still divide us, but in so many other ways, we are now the closest of kin.
TRUMP: It's a singular privilege to be the first American president welcomed here. And the -- if you think about it, it's a -- it's a lot of presidents.
And this was the second state visit, and that's the first. And maybe that's going to be the last time. I hope it is, actually. But this is truly one of the highest honors of my life. Such respect for you and such respect for your country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: OK. The love fest did not extend to all Londoners. Some took to the streets to protest the president's visit. And on Tuesday, activists projected images of Trump and Jeffrey Epstein, the late convicted sex offender, onto Windsor Castle.
Joining me now, CNN international diplomatic editor Nic Robertson.
So, Nic, we know what happened on day one. All of these kind of warm feelings. Now they're going to get down to business. What's on the agenda?
NIC ROBERTSON, CNN INTERNATIONAL DIPLOMATIC EDITOR: Yes, the British government's already announcing the sort of largest ever investment.
It's announcing -- it's not all signed off, but $205 billion of investment in the U.K. by the U.S. Of course, a lot of details to come through about that.
[06:20:10] But more than 20 billion of that apparently coming from Microsoft. More than 5 billion of it coming from Google's parent company, Alphabet. A lot more detail we'll hear.
But where things go from here very much seem to depend on the sort of afterglow effect of that sumptuous banquet that President Trump so much enjoyed last night.
In fact, watching him drive in here, he was still smiling. He was still waving out of the window of his motorcade.
There will be difficult questions that will be discussed, and that will be that the British prime minister is going to announce soon that the U.K. will recognize a Palestinian state, partly in -- due in part, because of Israel's actions in Gaza.
Now, President Trump is opposed to that. Can the British prime minister persuade him otherwise?
Can the British prime minister also persuade President Trump to move forward on Ukraine, support Ukraine more, put greater sanctions on Russia?
There's a couple of sort of smaller deals to do with tariffs that would be very important for the British prime minister to show that, at least in the U.K., that he's made some significant progress here. And that would be to reduce tariffs on aluminum, steel, Scottish salmon; and whiskey would be in there as well.
It's not clear those are going to come through. But of course that may change, if the president had a really good night last night.
CORNISH: OK. And you can follow Nic's reporting on this summit today. Nic Robertson, thank you.
After the break on CNN THIS MORNING, the Democratic ticket that could have been: who Kamala Harris really wanted to pick as her running mate.
Plus, what happens when prosecutors take on sitting U.S. presidents. CNN senior legal analyst Elie Honig is here to tell us about his new book and the perils of standing up to the powerful.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:26:10]
CORNISH: Former special counsel Jack Smith led two federal criminal cases against Trump for allegedly mishandling classified documents and for trying to overturn the 2020 election.
Both were abandoned when Trump was reelected. And now, Smith finds himself under investigation.
The president accused Smith and the Biden administration of going after Charlie Kirk's organization, Turning Point USA. And Senate Republicans have questioned the scope of the Justice Department investigation, which at the time included dozens of conservative groups suspected of supporting the former president's attempt to overturn the election.
Now, this is the latest salvo in a long-running battle over the legacy of the special counsel. And to understand why that matters, we have our own CNN senior legal analyst, Elie Honig, in the chat.
He's actually the author of a new book. It's called "When You Come at the King: Inside DOJ's Pursuit of the President from Nixon to Trump."
All right, Elie. So, I have to admit, I have never heard a president or a White House really say a good word about a special counsel.
HONIG: Yes. They're generally not fans.
CORNISH: By definition, a -- adversarial relationship, because it's literally called to investigate abuses of power. So why did you want to write this book?
HONIG: Exactly right. So, I think this book -- so Jack Smith is the last chapter in this book. Nixon and Watergate is essentially the first chapter in this book.
And I think it's important when you go back -- and I talk to insiders. I talked to 35 or 36 people who actually participated in these cases. Prosecutors, defense lawyers, witnesses, people who were prosecuted.
And you're absolutely right. No president likes this. Why would they? Right.
And to varying extents, up until now, presidents have taken sometimes shocking steps to try to undermine, obstruct, block these investigations.
Nixon, the Saturday Night Massacre. And I talked to two prosecutors who survived that, stayed on the team, and went on to get the information that led to his resignation.
Trump, of course, actively undermined these investigations.
But what I argue in this book -- Jack Smith's actually the second to last chapter. The last chapter is that where we are now is fundamentally different than anywhere we've been before.
Because now -- and you just showed some examples -- Trump has made clear there will be no investigation of him, period. Even Nixon didn't go that far. Even Trump in his first term did not go that far.
And so, the core argument I make in this book is this institution of special counsel, outside counsel, as flawed as it has been over our history, there's plenty that we can point out to criticize --
CORNISH: Yes.
HONIG: -- needs to remain with us. Otherwise, we're going to lose a key guardrail.
CORNISH: No, you are arguing that it should be semi-permanent.
HONIG: Yes.
CORNISH: Stephen, I saw you nodding throughout this conversation.
COLLISON: Yes.
CORNISH: What's striking you?
COLLINSON: The question I have is so Trump is not going to allow any of this, but what happens after Trump? Are we never, ever going to see another investigation of a president from inside the Justice Department?
How would that -- you know, who would appoint that person? Would it depend on an attorney general, someone like Merrick Garland? HONIG: Yes. So, it's a great question. So, the way it works now, under
the current regulations, is it has to be the attorney general.
Merrick Garland, appointed four or five different special counsels. I have chapters on all of them here. You can argue he overdid it, actually.
Hunter Biden -- there's a good argument here that the appointment of the special counsel on Hunter Biden was unnecessary.
Part of what this book is, though, is a -- is a plea for good government. I mean, I'm under no illusion. I say in the book, there's no way Donald Trump's going to suddenly say, yes, you know, this is probably the better way to go. Let's -- let's start allowing special counsel again.
The next president, though, I think, has to understand the importance of this and why it matters. And I think it --
CORNISH: Is there any other option?
HONIG: Yes.
CORNISH: Like, one of the things maybe.
DUBKE: Yes, Congress.
CORNISH: Oh, say more.
DUBKE: Congress can investigate. These special counsels, they are a reporter's dream in Washington, D.C.
But I got to tell you from the inside, the special prosecutors take up so much of your time when you're inside the White House under an investigation, that it really is a disservice to the American people.
Because Congress has the right and the duty to go and investigate this. Not in administrative -- special administrative council.
HONIG: Also, if there's criminality, though, Congress is not going to do the trick. You need a prosecutor.
But you're right, Mike. I mean, you've lived this, and there's a lot in here about what an imposition and how much. Look, we've had runaway prosecutors. Ken Starr.
