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Federal Officials in Memphis; Rep. Sam Liccardo (D-CA) is Interviewed about the Shutdown; Pope Leo on Pro-Life. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired October 02, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:33:13]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: We do want to update you on the breaking news we've been following out of the United Kingdom.

A car ramming and a stabbing outside of a synagogue in Manchester, England, in the northern part of the country there. Police have declared this attack to be a major incident, in their words.

We know at this hour at least four people are injured. Police have said that they shot the suspect. It is important to note too, this incident happening, of course, on Yom Kippur. This is the holiest day on the Jewish calendar. A day of atonement and fasting.

We do have a crew, a team, headed to the scene. We'll continue to bring you more details as we have them.

But again, this car ramming and stabbing at a synagogue in Manchester, England, earlier today.

It's 6:33 here in Washington, D.C. Here's a look at what else we're following for you today.

Hundreds of thousands of federal workers furloughed. Many could soon be getting pink slips. The White House says that layoffs are, in fact, imminent. One official telling groups -- telling a group of House Republicans that, in fact, it could happen in the next one to two days, according to people who were on that call yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Very unsure of like what's going to happen next. I'm trying to just like take every day as it goes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is the car insurance bill due? Is the gas and electric bill due? And the uncertainty around that, and when another paycheck will come, does add to a lot of stress and anxiety.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: A lot of stress, of course, over those paychecks if workers are furloughed. Also concerns about firings. The White House has not said who would be targeted first in those layoffs.

FBI agents -- the FBI Agents Association is warning the shutdown could endanger the safety of Americans. In a message obtained by CNN, the group writes that a lapse in funding could disrupt investigations, surveillance and partnerships with state, local and international law enforcement. The group is also asking Congress to not withhold pay from federal agents who are working during the shutdown.

[06:35:05]

National Guard troops who will be deployed to Portland, we're learning, will be working without pay during the shutdown. Right now, they're training to support immigration enforcement sent there by the president. They will be paid once the shutdown is over.

Well, first it was Los Angeles, then D.C. Now law enforcement has been given the power to, in the words of the administration, unleash on Memphis.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHEN MILLER, DEPUTY CHIEF OF STAFF: I see the guns and badges in this room. You are unleashed. The handcuffs that you're carrying, they're not on your anymore, they're on the criminals. And whatever you need to get it done, we're going to get it done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Federal authorities already saying they've racked up a number of arrests in the first 48 hours. The administration says 53 people were taken into custody and that 20 illegal firearms were seized.

Memphis does rank number one on the FBI's list for cities with the nation's highest violent crime rates.

Let's discuss. Former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger is joining the chat.

Now, when we look at how this is rolling out, it's also important to note, Betsy, you and I were talking about this briefly in the break, more than 50 arrests. We don't yet know what those arrests were for, correct?

BETSY KLEIN, CNN SENIOR WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: That's right.

HILL: So, that's important to note as we wait to see. When we see, though, what is happening here, the messaging there from Stephen Miller. You have President Trump the other day saying that cities can be training grounds for troops moving forward. As all of this plays out, what is the impact on these -- on these federal resources, the way troops are potentially being utilized?

ADAM KINZINGER, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes. So, look, there's two things here. Number one, should there be operations in Memphis? Maybe, you know, especially if Memphis welcomes it. Secondly, what is the message the administration is putting out when

Stephen Miller is there being tough, and he's not a tough guy, but when he acts like it? That's when it sends a chilling message.

So, you know, what is this going to do to kind of the civilian military relationship? That remains to be seen. But every time, not National Guard, but federal troops, U.S. troops are deployed, and by the way, in Oregon, since the governor has not agreed to that deployment, those are federal troops, even though they were in the National Guard, same as the 82nd Airborne. When stuff like that happens, it chips away at that relationship, which is so important.

I mean, listen, on January 6th, I'm sitting there and I know that if everything went to hell, I knew that the military would actually be the backstop that could come in and fix everything. When the military becomes partisan, that's when I worry about what the future of like the federal government looks like. That's the one thing that has to stay bipartisan.

HILL: Secretary Hegseth, though, said earlier this week, now the military will not be partisan. It's going to apolitical.

KINZINGER: Yes, it's -- well, OK. Good luck with that one. And the practice that he's shown is very different on that. But, look it's just -- it is so important -- it's -- it's a -- it's a relationship that has been preserved through very hard work to say that this military represents Democrats, Republicans, independents, everybody, doesn't represent a president, represents the Constitution.

HILL: As we look at the way this is playing out and what you've heard in a number of these cities, it is a little bit different what we're seeing in Memphis. You know, my colleague, Ryan Young, on the ground there, spoke to actually a number of people in Memphis who said, we welcome this. We need some help here. Are Democrats handling this the right way, especially in the middle of everything else that's happening?

MEGHAN HAYS, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Look, I think that Democrats would be smart to say, we do have crime problems in a lot of cities. It seems -- I have never been to Memphis, so I don't want to speak, just like I didn't like when people were disparaging D.C. when the National Guard came here. So, I want to be careful there.

But I do think there are also other ways to do this. What happens when these resources leave? Then the crime goes back up. Why aren't we investing in hiring more police officers? Why aren't we investing in community programs? There are other ways to be fighting crime here that we need to do. And I understand sending troops to get them -- or sending National Guard or whoever they're sending to get them to get it under control, but there needs to be long term solutions that I don't think that we're thinking through. And I think that Congress should be looking at that.

ASHELY DAVIS, FORMER HOMELAND SECURITY OFFICIAL: I understand what you're saying, but I also think that there has been a big effort, especially in Oregon and especially in your home state, to defund the police. So, I don't think that that's a good argument for the Democrats. I mean I'm a huge proponent here on this issue of law and order. I think that, especially in Memphis, especially what Mayor Bowser did here in Washington, she worked very hard to walk a fine line of welcoming what was happening, but also understanding her constituency. That is what's happening in Memphis right now.

And I just think it's a losing message for Oregon. And I think it's a losing message when Pritzker goes up and says, we don't need anything when Chicago is under destruction from the crime number (ph).

HILL: We should point out, there have been a number of, and I've spoken to leaders who have said, we actually would welcome the help. We'd welcome the funding that was promised in terms of certain law enforcement and reforms, right. So, there are questions about that.

I do want to move on, though, if we could, to the story of the week, which I know we're covering the shutdown a lot, but in all seriousness, the other major headline is Bad Bunny. And this is not going away. And it's fascinating to me, right, how quickly it has stirred up angst among a certain segment of the population. Perhaps not surprising in some respects. But we did hear yesterday, Betsy, that, get ready, ICE is also going to Santa Clara. Everybody's going to be at Levis Stadium. It will be great.

KLEIN: Right. And I -- that was the message from Corey Lewandowski. He's a senior advisor to the secretary of Homeland Security, a top Trump ally.

[06:40:01]

But I think this is a business decision for the NFL. I actually looked it up earlier. I was looking up top Spotify streams. Number one is Taylor Swift. Number two is Bad Bunny. This is an effort by the NFL to become a global brand, to bring new, younger, different demographics into the fold. We saw that even as they held a game in Ireland last weekend. They are making a business decision here.

HILL: I do want to play what Corey Lewandowski had to say specifically because I think it's important. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

COREY LEWANDOWSKI, DHS ADVISER: There is nowhere that you can provide safe haven to people who are in this country illegally. Not the Super Bowl and nowhere else. We will find you.

If there are illegal aliens, I don't care if it's a -- a concert for Johnny Smith or Bad Bunny or anybody else, we're going to do enforcement everywhere.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: So, that's actually not what I was talking about, but those are important words too. He said also, quote, "we should be trying to be inclusive, not exclusive." Saying, there are plenty of great bands and entertainment people who could be playing at that show that would be bringing people together and not separating them."

It's interesting, there was a FOIA request from "Wired" that found after Kendrick Lamar's performance at the Super Bowl, there were 125 complaints to the FCC that there were, quote, "not enough white people on stage during the show."

I just think it's fascinating to me, in this moment, right. Bad Bunny, who has united a lot of people globally, and to your point it's a business decision, is seen as exclusive. Not surprising, but fascinating.

KINZINGER: Listen, I -- you know, the thing that's very exhausting, as a kind of Republican not in great standing with the party right now, is, I -- I always remember, we used to kind of make fun of the left for being snowflakes and offended all the time. Everything is offending the GOP today. I mean it's like there's this -- there's this absolute -- OK, you don't like the -- the halftime performer at the Super Bowl. OK. So, turn the channel. Like, literally your life is not ending because of it and it's not affected. And I think that's what's very exhausting is like, just this whole idea that everything is offensive. And even in the clip you played of Corey Lewandowski now, you know, the -- being the tough guy, everything is like, I'm the alpha male now, is covering up something, right? All these people that try to act tough, covering up something, that's what's exhausting to me as a -- as a Republican. But I think eventually that's going to wear thin on a lot of people.

DAVIS: Is it bad I don't know a Bad Bunny song?

HILL: Yes, because you have a long time to get there. You're good. You have until February.

DAVIS: (INAUDIBLE).

HILL: No, it's not, right? I mean, you know, there are plenty of people who you see, there are people who didn't know Kendrick Lamar last year, who didn't understand the beef between Kendrick Lamar and Drake, right? It was a learning moment for a number of people. But it's also -- it can be generational too.

DAIVS: That's why there's like Snoop and Eminem.

HILL: That was a great one.

DAVIS: Yes.

HILL: Yes.

DAVIS: Good one. Agreed.

HAYS: We just can't have nice things anymore. It's really disappointing that we just cannot have nice things.

KINZINGER: Yes. Yes.

HAYS: It's like the Super Bowl. Let it go. KLEIN: This is the Super Bowl.

HAYS: I just worry that we are going to spend so much time talking about the showdown between Gavin Newsom and Donald Trump leading up to this, and do the ICE agents have to have their masks on, and all the politicization. Look, can we just watch football, please? Like, that's all I want, to watch football (ph).

DAVIS: And hopefully Adam hopes (ph) it's the Steelers in the Super Bowl.

HILL: That will be a separate --

KINZINGER: Oh, sorry, Bears. No, not true. Go Bears.

HILL: That will be a separate take. Yes, he's sticking with you for one more year, tops (ph).

KINZINGER: Yes, you got one more year.

HILL: But you have one year to prove yourself to him.

KINZINGER: If you blow it this year, I'm out.

HILL: That's it.

KINZINGER: I'm going to the Steelers.

HILL: All right, thank you, guys. Betsy, I know you have to run, but always good to see you, my friend. Thank you for being a part of the group chat this morning.

Still a lot more ahead here. Democrats, are they actually playing the right hand when it comes to the showdown? We'll ask Democratic Congressman Sam Liccardo, who's here to discuss his party's strategy. His border, by the way, his -- his district borders on the part of Santa Clara where Levis Stadium is. So, we'll talk that too.

Plus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE LEO: Someone who says that I'm against abortion, but I'm in agreement with the inhuman treatment of immigrants who are in the United States, I don't know if that's pro-life.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: The first American-born pope wading into a very American political conversation. More of those comments, ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:48:11]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Democrats in Congress have officially shut down the United States government.

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: That's not a Republican shutdown when nearly every single Senate Democrat votes to shut it down.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's irrational on every level, the Democrats that are pushing back. And I like to think of myself as a fairly rational person. But they have missed it on this point.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Could there be some cracks in the Democratic Party. Well, the partisan finger pointing is, of course, in full effect on both sides. Some Democrats are starting to question the strategy of their leaders.

Democratic Congressman Jared Golden of Maine, in a statement, saying the shutdown is, quote, "a result of hardball politics driven by the demands of far left groups for Democratic Party leaders to oppose Trump."

House Minority Leader Hakeem Jeffries, for his part, staying on message.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): This is a serious moment. We need to reopen the government. We need to enact a spending agreement that's bipartisan, that actually meets the needs of the American people. And we need to address the Republican health care crisis.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Joining us now in the group chat, Congressman Sam Liccardo of California.

Congressman, it's nice to have you with us this morning.

In terms of what we heard from your colleague, Representative Golden, it's not dissimilar in some ways to what we're hearing from the GOP. I know you've been supportive of this move. You were talking about it last week, actually. But do you have concerns at this point that there are more in your party who could be feeling like Jared Golden?

REP. SAM LICCARDO (D-CA): No, I don't. Look, more than 200 of us have been here all week, ready to negotiate, ready to vote if we could cut a deal. I didn't see the Republicans show up for work. While we're on duty, they're on vacation. And let's be clear, nobody's talking about the fact that Republicans voted down a Democratic Senate proposal to extend Affordable Care tax credits that 22 million Americans need to prevent their health insurance premiums from doubling.

We know what the pathway is to actually getting a deal done. We've been very clear and explicit about it. President Trump said in 2011, shutdowns are about the failure of the president. I think that's true today.

[06:50:05]

This is a failure of leadership. Republicans lead the House. Republicans lead the Senate. Republicans lead the White House. Let's see their leadership.

HILL: My colleague, Stephen Collinson, who always has excellent analysis. If you don't read him, I would encourage everybody to do so. He knows how the White House seems to be really relishing this moment, to move forward with the layoffs, writing, "in forcing a shutdown, Democrats metaphorically used government as a hostage to secure policy changes against a White House that might be happy to see the hostage eliminated."

How --

LICCARDO: That'd be true if there were policy changes involved here. We're talking about extending tax credits that 22 million Americans and many others depend on.

HILL: What about --

LICCARDO: To pay their health care premiums.

HILL: What about what you are seeing, though, what's -- what's being talked about and -- and warned of, threatened of, that's coming in terms of layoff, what we are seeing in terms of comments, even from Stephen Vought, right, about moving forward, and the president saying, we're going to get rid of, quote, "Democratic things." Was there a consideration for whether or not Democrats would, in fact, be boosting potentially executive power in this moment?

LICCARDO: Well, that's hard to imagine that it could get any worse. Look, we know that they're going to do everything they can to fire anybody who's providing basic services to the American people. And we are going to the courts and using every tool we can to slow or stop what they're doing. That isn't going to change whether they stop a shutdown or not.

HILL: I do want to ask you about what we were just talking about, Bad Bunny, in the break. It is a serious topic. So, your border -- your -- Santa Clara, I should say, is partially in your district, partially in Ro Khanna's district. Levi Stadium is just over in Congressman Khanna's district, I believe.

LICCARDO: Yes.

HILL: That being said, this is your backyard. So, when you have the administration talking about, you have Corey Lewandowski saying we're going to send ICE agents to the Super Bowl because Bad Bunny said he had concerns about doing concerts in the U.S. What's your reaction?

LICCARDO: Well, first, let's be clear, Bad Bunny is a United States citizen, as is everyone else who's born in Puerto Rico. So, if they're going there looking for Puerto Ricans, ICE is going to be very disappointed.

I should also note, look, I represent a city, San Jose, 40 percent are born in a foreign country. That's the secret sauce of Silicon Valley's success. ICE is not going to do well in that crowd.

HILL: We'll be watching to see what happens there.

There was also talk about, as I mentioned, the president saying he's going after, quote, "Democratic things." Also, Democratic states, as you know. So, Russ Vought, yesterday, saying they're targeting $8 billion of green projects. California is included in his list of targets. Are there specific programs in your district that you're concerned about this morning?

LICCARDO: Oh, absolutely. And look, everyone should be concerned.

What we know this president is willing to do, in the name of vindictiveness, really has no limitation. And so we are going to need to do everything we can. For example, NASA Ames is a very important institution in my district. That is not just important for all the scientific discovery that happens there, but also for our Defense Department.

Look, this is --

HILL: Does that protect you, though?

LICCARDO: Well, it protects all of us, I think, as Americans, which (INAUDIBLE).

HILL: No, no, no, I mean, does -- yes, you point out the importance of those programs.

LICCARDO: Oh, right. Sure.

HILL: Do you believe that that in some way insulates them?

LICCARDO: Maybe. Look, I -- I don't think there is any ideological or -- or logical limitation to what this president is willing to do. It's all about vindictiveness. So, if it's in our district, we know we have to fight for it.

HILL: How long are Democrats willing to -- to sit through this?

LICCARDO: As long as it takes to ensure that when the government reopens, it's a government that actually serves Americans and reduces the cost of living, rather than what we know is going to happen if this proposal passes, which is, we're going to see 22 million Americans pay twice as much for their health insurance.

HILL: We'll be watching for all of that. Stick with us. We have a lot more to talk about.

And you're sticking around as we expand the group chat here.

Pope Leo, the first American-born pope, challenging what it means to be pro-life. It's one of the first times he's weighed in specifically on American politics like this.

Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

POPE LEO: Someone who says I'm against abortion but says I'm in favor of the death penalty is not really pro-life. So, someone who says that I'm against abortion but I'm in agreement with the inhumane treatment of immigrants who are in the United States, I don't know if that's pro-life. So, they're very complex issues.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Those comments coming in support of Illinois Senator Dick Durbin. He was facing backlash over a lifetime achievement award from Chicago's archdiocese for his work helping immigrants. Some conservative bishops did not want Durbin to receive the award because of his support for abortion rights. Durbin ultimately declined it. In an interview with NBC, he said he was overwhelmed by the support from the pope.

The group chat is back.

Congressman, I see you nodding your head as we're talking about -- talking about that moment. What do you make of these comments from Pope Leo?

LICCARDO: Well, I'm a pro-choice catholic. So, no expert on the subject, but like tens of millions of other Americans -- look, I think I agree wholeheartedly, if we're going to talk about protecting life, we can't pick and choose. And certainly treatment of immigrants, treatment of those who are convicted.

[06:55:02]

We have to be consistent in our -- our values.

That being said, look, I -- I think the pope was fundamentally right about the first thing he said, which is, we can't pretend to be experts here. The vindictiveness and the self-righteousness is what is at the source of the problem.

HILL: How do you think this will play, Ashley?

DAVIS: There's 53 million plus Catholics in this country that really do listen to, obviously, what the pope says. I'm not one of them.

However, I just think it's very interesting. I'm a pro-choice Republican as well. I mean, you're not a Republican. You are. But -- so it's -- I mean, it's a difficult conversation.

I just -- listen, I remember when he's weighed into political things -- popes have weighed into political things for a long time. When I was in the White House, he criticized Bush. When your old boss, Bill Clinton, you know, he was criticizing the Clintons over some of the Monica Lewinsky issues. I mean, he's criticized Joe Biden. So, I just don't know if many people are going to, like, change their

mind one way or the other about what the pope's saying.

HILL: You say it's a difficult conversation. Meghan, does it open up, though, an important conversation about -- because we are so quick in this country to throw a label at people, right? And if you believe one thing, then you have to check all these other boxes. And that's not the way most people live their lives, nor is it how they feel about things. So, could it be an important point to open up that conversation?

HAYS: Absolutely. I also think that it points out the hypocrisy in some of these things. But I also think, for Democrats, we -- we subscribe to a purity test with the Democratic Party. And you have to check every single box and have to be perfect on every single issue. And that's just not -- as you were pointing out, that's just not the way people live.

And I grew up Catholic. I am still Catholic to this day. I am also pro-choice. But I've been to church with multiple politicians who have been denied communion because they are pro-choice. So, I just -- I have -- I appreciate that the pope is weighing in. I just wish that sometimes we would stay out of politics. But in -- and I understand what he's doing here, and it's an important conversation to have, but we are not experts here. And sometimes I think religion and politics, there's a reason they are separate in this country and they should stay.

HILL: Are they really separate in this country, Adam?

KINZINGER: No. Listen --

HAYS: Well, they are supposed to be separate.

KINZINGER: They should be. Yes.

HAYS: They should be and they were supposed to be.

KINZINGER: The thing that I think is good about this is, as a Pope Leo fan, but protestant, one of the things I've done, especially in the last few years with kind of how I was raised, what I believe, and as I've kind of deconstructed my faith, is, the words of Jesus are about much more than just anger and taking over government. It is about life from basically birth to death, which includes immigrants, includes the down and out and how to treat them. 0

And I think this is very important, particularly again for my party, on some of the treatment side. Like, are you -- OK, deportations, they need to happen. Are you celebrating this in glee or are you doing this with kind of a mournful spirit of like, we have to enforce this, but we wish everybody could stay. We can't -- and that's where I think it's important is to kind of look into your heart and say, OK, what is pro-life? What is, you know, what does it mean to treat people well? And is my faith really in line with how I'm acting?

HILL: And how much should -- not that a person -- faith is such an important part for many people of their decision making. In fact, for a number -- millions of people, right, it influences more than anything else the way they make decisions. And that includes politicians. But increasingly there is a question about, is it crossing a line by alienating the faith of other Americans if a lawmaker is putting theirs above everyone else's? Are we at the point yet where that's a real conversation that's happening, in your view?

LICCARDO: Yes. I think -- look, Jesus didn't write a political platform for anyone. That wasn't about the faith. I think we all need to take a step back and take a breath and recognize that we can be good Christians and disagree on important political issues. These are complex. Let's give everyone some space to find their own path.

HILL: We have a little over a minute left. How about a little -- bring it down a little bit. Have a little group chat. Ladies. Ladies first.

DAVIS: Go ahead, because she thinks mine's boring.

HAYS: So, what's going on in my group chat with my friends here is, we think that there is too much of the pumpkin spice going on. We do not need pumpkin spice Goldfish. We do not need pumpkin spice Frosted Flakes.

HILL: Yes. Yes.

DAVIS: Deodorant.

HAYS: We could -- deodorant. We could do some, you know, maybe more apple. We could focus on that. It's just -- it's overkill. We need to stop. Companies need to stop. People don't like it. It's gross.

HILL: Sign me up for your group chat.

HAYS: Yes.

DAVIS: OK. So, I don't think mine's boring. But while we are talking about the shutdown over here, President Trump is getting 108 of his confirmations through tomorrow, which no one's talking about.

HILL: That is -- well, now we're talking about it.

DAVIS: Well, thank you.

HILL: Yes, see. So, there you go. Job well done.

Adam.

KINZINGER: I live in Texas now, so pumpkin spice, not until like December because it's still 800 degrees there.

Actually, one of the -- we've been talking a lot about Ukraine and kind of Ukraine's increasingly better position on the battlefield and how there's no concern about the lines breaking through, they're building all these new weapons. And I think Ukraine is in a really good spot. And I think the administrations pivot is kind of showing that, too. HILL: It's interesting. You think they'll stick with the pivot?

[07:00:00]

KINZINGER: Oh, God, I hope so.

HILL: Yes.

KINZINGER: But I don't know. We -- it could change in an hour. Who knows.

HILL: We'll see.

You get the last 30 seconds.

LICCARDO: Well, is it more ridiculous for a general to fly all the way from Qatar to listen to Pete Hegseth or Donald Trump? It's tough. I mean, Donald Trump was up there sounding like everybody's drunk uncle at Thanksgiving dinner, talking about how good looking the ships are.

HILL: All right. That's quite the group chat you got going on there.

LICCARDO: Yes. Good time.

HILL: Perhaps, in some ways, not surprising, but there we go.

DAVIS: Let's go back to the -- the deodorant.

HAYS: Clearly my group chat is real low bar.

HILL: All right, let's pull it back a little on the pumpkin spice. There you go.

Still much more ahead here. I'm Erica Hill. Thanks so much for joining us on CNN THIS MORNING. "CNN NEWS CENTRAL" picks up our coverage right now.