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Trump: Democrats' Message to Military 'Seditious Behavior'; White House Defends Trump after He Calls Reporter 'Piggy'; Tracking the Pulse of the Nation through Hits. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired November 21, 2025 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIAN ABEL, CNN ANCHOR: -- advance in a rigged competition.

[06:00:05]

It is going to be a big weekend for soccer fans. Major League Soccer's play-off semifinal matches are happening. One of the big matches happens on Saturday.

LAFC will be in Canada to face the Vancouver Whitecaps. No two MLS teams have played each other more often over the last three years than these two.

Thank you for joining us here on EARLY START. I'm Brian Abel. Washington, D.C. CNN THIS MORNING with Audie Cornish starts right now.

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: President Trump calls for his political opponents to be executed. CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Our laws are clear. You can refuse illegal orders.

DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT: -- for the planet.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Half a dozen Democrats warn troops of illegal orders. President Trump calls that sedition.

And the ghost [SIC] -- the Coast Guard defending itself after reports it softened its stance on some of the most well-known hate symbols.

And they couldn't be farther apart politically. President Trump and New York Mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani meeting at the White House today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm just blessed. I'm happy. God is good. God don't like ugly. Yes, I'm blessed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: She was shot by Border Patrol in Chicago, then criminally charged. So why are those charges now being dismissed?

And nursing no longer considered a professional degree, according to the Trump administration. That's going to come at a cost for thousands of students.

It's 6 a.m. here on the East Coast. This is a live look at the Capitol.

Good morning, everybody. I want to thank you for waking up with me. I'm Audie Cornish.

And here's where we begin: with a message from six Democratic lawmakers to the military that ignited a firestorm in Washington. Now, President Trump is once again calling for his political foes to be thrown behind bars.

It's gone a bit farther this time, saying they should be put to death.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KELLY: Our laws are clear. You can refuse illegal orders.

SEN. ELISSA SLOTKIN (D-MI): You can refuse illegal orders.

REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): You must refuse illegal orders.

SLOTKIN: No one has to carry out orders that violate the law.

REP. CHRISSY HOULAHAN (D-PA): Or our Constitution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: OK. The president responding with an outburst on social media, calling the video "SEDITIOUS BEHAVIOR, punishable by DEATH!" Saying, "An example MUST BE SET."

Members of his own party agree, at least in part.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): The words that the president chose are not the ones that I would use. OK? Obviously, I don't think that this is -- these are crimes punishable by death or any of that. OK?

But what -- what the point that is -- that we need to emphasize here is that members of Congress and the Senate and the House should not be telling troops to disobey orders. It is dangerous.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): I don't agree with the president they should be put in jail. But I do believe what they did was despicable, and they need to explain themselves.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: The Democratic lawmakers argue the response to their video proves their point. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HOULAHAN: I never in a million years thought I'd be talking to you tonight about the fact that the president of the United States has called for my death by hanging for sedition and treason, and called for it because I and a number of other people published a video that says, you have to follow the law, and the law says, don't follow unlawful orders.

REP. CHRIS DELUZIO (D-PA): His response to us putting this video out was to call for our death and hanging. It tells me he has no regard for the law. He has no regard for the Constitution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: This message isn't exactly new, because we've been noticing that throughout this year, billboards have popped up outside U.S. military bases from veterans groups, urging soldiers, quote, "Don't let them make you break the law."

Joining me now in the group chat, Elliott Williams, CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor; Tiffany Smiley, former Republican candidate for senator in Washington; and Lulu Garcia-Navarro, CNN contributor and "New York Times" journalist.

I know we're going to talk about the sort of good, bad, and ugly of the rhetoric here. But I want to talk about what it is these lawmakers are saying, because I've been seeing this come up about lawful versus unlawful orders.

And we went to look it up to see just how many things the military is being asked to do right now --

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Right.

CORNISH: That could be potentially unlawful if it is found so --

WILLIAMS: Yes.

CORNISH: -- by the court. And I was wondering if you could give me some clarification.

WILLIAMS: I can't. And here's why. It's never been defined, truly, what a lawful or unlawful order is. They've broadly stated what the language is.

And a lawful -- an order is generally unlawful if, No. 1, it's contrary to the Constitution. No. 2, contrary to the laws of the United States or some way beyond the scope of what the person giving the order is.

Now, again, they've never really put meat on those bones.

CORNISH: Yes.

WILLIAMS: And more to the point, Audie, it's impossible to determine what a lawful order is without violating orders from a superior.

[06:05:08]

Now, there's things that are plainly problematic. So, for instance, let's use a common example today.

If someone in the military were directed to deport someone from the United States, that's plainly an unlawful order. They do not have the authority under American law to engage in immigration enforcement.

If they were directed to, as you ran up on the screen, break the law.

CORNISH: Right.

WILLIAMS: Hey, go seize Audie Cornish's house. That would violate --

CORNISH: But there's other things here. Obviously, the Venezuelan boat strikes --

WILLIAMS: Right.

CORNISH: -- is where people have been talking about this, because sources told CNN that the U.S. Southern Command told the Pentagon that they were concerned about the operations not being lawful. And the leader of the U.S. Southern Command announced that he's retiring at the end of the year.

What do you make about not just how this is playing out, but the -- the president's response? I think it's the third very visceral, like almost irritated-sounding response from him in the last couple of days.

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: It's not irritated sounding. He's sounding like the queen of hearts in "Alice in Wonderland": "Off with their heads."

I mean, this is absolutely unconscionable behavior from the president of the United States. And I don't think that there's any disputing that. It is clear.

And I think, you know, when you have to constantly have the people speaking for you, cleaning it up and saying, no, actually, he didn't mean to call for the beheading and execution of Democratic lawmakers. He was just pointing out how terrible this is.

You know what that does, like, leaving aside how bad it is, what that does is it puts all the focus on the president of the United States and his mental state, and less about, I think, real discussions, quite frankly, as to what the Democratic lawmakers were actually pointing to, what they are literally concerned about. I mean, that's all, I think, very important.

CORNISH: Yes. Let me let Tiffany get a word in here. How are you seeing it?

TIFFANY SMILEY, FORMER REPUBLICAN CANDIDATE FOR SENATOR IN WASHINGTON: I mean, clearly, the president was emotional and -- and extremely frustrated.

But if we're going to talk about the president's actions, I think we need to talk about what he was responding to: a bad faith argument by the Democrats.

We saw Jason Crow go on FOX News and could not even define what illegal actions he was claiming President Trump carried out.

CORNISH: Yes. Although we just heard it's because the courts are still working it out.

SMILEY: Well, but clearly, he's the commander in chief.

And I want to be clear, our military men and women are the best in the world, the most professional. Our military members, our intelligence communities. They assess, they observe, they carry out these actions legally in protection of the homeland.

And President Trump has been very clear over this last year, his No. 1 priority is the security of our borders and the safety of the American people and citizens.

CORNISH: So, to be clear, we're not talking -- I think, one of -- this is where this conversation, I think, turns for people. You can have a conversation about the legal orders and defending legal orders.

We're talking about a long list of orders that may or may not be legal, that may or may not be unlawful, which is why they're being challenged in court.

And I think if you're a military -- if you're serving in the military and you're reading the news every day, you're like, wait a second, should that flight have gone to Sudan with those immigrants?

Wait a second. Was that vessel actually something I could have shot down?

Like, it feels like people might have questions about what they're being asked to carry out.

SMILEY: Yes. Right. I think -- I think, you know, when you look at what the Democrats did in putting out this video, and really encouraging Americans and military members to defy federal law, I have to --

CORNISH: To defy unlawful orders.

SMILEY: But I have to think, if this was Republicans that -- that did this, the Democrats would be falling all over themselves, saying this is a threat to democracy.

CORNISH: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I agree. I agree, but this is -- I -- I could not agree with you more. And that is why the president's response becomes so problematic just from a political standpoint. Because instead of talking about that, what we're talking about is his absolutely outsized response.

I mean, to flip that, imagine if a Democratic president had said what he said on -- on his social media. Imagine if a Democratic president -- Biden, Obama, anyone else -- had said, you know what? These Republican lawmakers, they need to be executed for treason.

I mean --

CORNISH: I think one thing everyone --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: -- it works -- it works in both ways.

CORNISH: I wonder, Tiffany, also, just because people we've been talking so much in the aftermath of the death of Charlie Kirk, whether calling for anyone's death is a good idea right now.

SMILEY: Right. That rhetoric needs to be denounced on both sides, and -- and we need to tone down the language. I think that's clear in our country, but --

CORNISH: But did the president, like, miss that? Because that's, like, escalation.

SMILEY: But we -- well, he is responding to --

CORNISH: What I'm hearing is two different things.

SMILEY: -- the Democrats, who are calling on --

CORNISH: Which is denounce all things that sound very bad except for when it really seems bad to you. And I'm trying to figure out if there's a baseline conversation for the public, which is maybe we don't call for people's deaths in the United States from the highest office.

[06:10:02]

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think we should be able to agree on that. Don't you think?

WILLIAMS: Yes.

CORNISH: But no, no, because what you're saying is that maybe Democrats, because they did X, that's why he responded. And I don't know if we're looking for a "why." We're looking for a "should."

WILLIAMS: I think what's tricky here is a few things are true at the same time.

Those Democrats were stating the law.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Correct.

WILLIAMS: Like, if -- if a plainly unlawful order is given, yes, you ought to disobey it; or you can, or you're obligated to do so. It's also the case that -- wink, nod -- it was sort of, hey, everybody

ought to defy the president. And both of those things are true at the same time.

It's all -- it's almost like if I were to say, if you come on my property unlawfully, I can kill you. Well, yes, that's true, but that's also kind of an escalation when I say it, right? It's sort of you can be stating the law, but also be provocative in what you're doing. I think some of that is going on.

CORNISH: And we're going to talk -- Hold on, you guys, because we've actually got a couple more provocative responses to talk about this week. This was the week in rhetoric. So, stay with me.

Coming up on CNN THIS MORNING, a course correction. The Coast Guard clarifying its policies concerning hate symbols and flags.

Plus, major changes in how the Department of Education classifies nursing degrees and how thousands of nursing students could be impacted.

And the White House doubles down after the president's schoolyard insult of a reporter.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Yes, Jennifer. Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- if there's nothing incriminating in the files, sir, why not act --

TRUMP: Quiet. Quiet, piggy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[06:16:02]

CORNISH: The White House, defending President Trump after he called a female reporter "piggy" during a gaggle over questions related to the Epstein files.

(BEGIN VIDEOCLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Sir --

TRUMP: Yes, Jennifer. Go ahead. Go ahead.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: -- if there's nothing incriminating in the files, sir, why not act --

TRUMP: Quiet. Quiet, piggy.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CORNISH: So, the White House isn't just downplaying -- downplaying these remarks. They're actually doubling down on it, describing it as a virtue.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: What did the president mean when he called a reporter "piggy"?

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: Look, the president is very frank and honest with everyone in this room. You've all seen it yourself. You've all experienced it yourselves. And I think it's one of the many reasons that the American people reelected this president, because of his frankness.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: The group chat is back.

Tiffany, I want to come to you, because you were talking about how you've actually been -- spent time with the president. And I'm interested in this idea of the frankness being kind of part of the mandate that voters wanted. What do you make of her description of what's happened?

SMILEY: Yes. Yes, so, President Trump was elected, because he had a vision for America that the American people wanted and liked. They didn't want a typical politician. They wanted someone to come in and shake it up and actually deliver results.

And he is the most transparent president in American history. He is constantly forward-facing with the press and engaging with them. I mean, tenfold what the last administration did.

So, President Trump is actually extremely funny and sarcastic. And I think he gets taken out of context in a lot of situations.

CORNISH: Is this one of those situations?

SMILEY: He's obviously addressing a reporter who is asking questions. And I think he gets frustrated with the unfairness piece of it.

CORNISH: Let's talk about the response to this, because this came up during a busy news day. It took a minute for it to kind of go viral, but once it did, people went nuts. And guess what? You all have Sora and A.I. So here is what it looked like. People responding to Trump himself. A lot of images like this.

I also saw a lot of responses to women who tried to engage on this. In the replies, it would say, "Quiet, piggy."

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Can I say the most disheartening part of all of this? Because you know what I will agree with you on? This isn't new from the president. The president came on in 2015 insulting women. Megyn Kelly famously,

and on and on. He has a very checkered history with the way he talks about women and to women.

But what is, to me, the most depressing thing is seeing Karoline Leavitt there and you, I have to say, here: women having to defend that particular language.

Because I don't think that that language is acceptable when we're talking to women in a personal setting.

CORNISH: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And certainly not in a professional setting.

CORNISH: Tiffany, let me let you respond, just because she's coming to you directly.

SMILEY: Right. So, I have worked with President Trump on issues that are deeply meaningful in our country. And I've -- I've never felt threatened by him. He's actually extremely -- he's very easy to work with. He wants to deliver results for Americans, for all Americans.

So, I think when we look at this whole picture, he is frustrated with the unfairness of the press and not covering both sides of the story. And he's being Donald Trump.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But why that language?

SMILEY: This is nothing new.

CORNISH: Let me let Elliot jump in here. Because we're seeing --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But why that language to women, in particular?

CORNISH: We're seeing people like -- let's show this again -- Gavin Newsom respond with A.I. images of Trump as a pig. I've seen images of Karoline Leavitt depicted as a pig.

And I'm seeing the phrase "quiet, pig" now, kind of everywhere.

Can you talk about even just not saying you're a Democrat, but talk about the idea of it now becoming like it's open season. It's open season on using this anywhere and everywhere.

WILLIAMS: Well, I mean, that's how our world works. Something becomes a meme. And that's now part of the consciousness. And here we are.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Womp womp.

WILLIAMS: Womp womp. I agree. You know, this is not --

[06:20:01]

GARCIA-NAVARRO: No, no, no. I'm not -- I'm not -- I'm not enjoying.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I'm just saying like, you know, I don't like the -- the memes.

SMILEY: Right.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think they're horrible.

WILLIAMS: Yes, I mean --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I mean, all of it is horrible. All of it is horrible.

CORNISH: But once you open the door to that --

WILLIAMS: Yes.

CORNISH: -- I think, like, let's say the Epstein scandal itself, it's hard to put the toothpaste back in the tube. Right?

WILLIAMS: Yes.

CORNISH: This is, again, something the president introduces. And now everyone else has got to decide what to do with it.

WILLIAMS: Can I say one thing? You know, I feel like all the points are taken. And some of the things you're saying, Tiffany, are things that, you know, we've heard before from -- from defenders of the president.

Yes, he's taken out of context. Yes, a lot of this is what people see as a virtue of the president, the frankness and the candor and so on.

And three, yes, the Biden administration was not as forthright with the press.

But we cannot deny that this was an insult and a sexist one. And I just think multiple things can be true. Yes, Joe Biden wasn't as candid or forthright with the press, but also, Donald Trump insulted a reporter.

And why it is so hard to just say, yes, that was wrong? That was not an appropriate statement.

I just think we lost it.

CORNISH: OK, you guys. Stay with me.

After the break on CNN THIS MORNING, the race to replace Gavin Newsom -- we're just talking about him -- is heating up. Representative Eric Swalwell says he's running for governor in California.

Plus, rapper Pras sentenced to 14 years, convicted in a campaign finance scheme.

And good morning to the Windy City. It's a live look at Chicago.

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[06:25:42]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KENDRICK LAMAR, RAPPER: They not like us. They not like us. They not like us. You think the --

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: OK, we're thinking back to the year in music. Maybe Kendrick Lamar's "Not Like Us" was more than an epic Drake diss. Maybe it's also a reflection of us as a society.

And in his new book, "Uncharted Territory: What Numbers Tell Us About the Biggest Hit Songs and Ourselves," Chris Dalla Riva tracks how the political climate, from the national trauma of the JFK assassination to shifting social norms around censorship, can dictate exactly what climbs the charts. And he joins me now.

Chris, first of all, this started because you had the, I think, quixotic idea of trying to listen to every Billboard single. What was the goal?

CHRIS DALLA RIVA, AUTHOR: I -- I've always enjoyed playing music, writing songs. I like history. So, I thought, you know, I'll try to listen to every No. 1 hit ever. I always like going on a quest.

So, I would listen to one a day. And then slowly over time, I noticed some trends. I felt compelled to write about it, and a book was slowly born over many, many years.

But there was no end goal initially.

CORNISH: So, talk about some of the trends, though. I learned that, during one period -- I don't know, was it the '50s or '60s? Like half of all songs faded out at the end?

RIVA: Yes. This is an interesting trend, and I think it points to the fact that technology always impacts what artists are doing.

At the time, 45 singles could only hold so much sound. So, if you had a song that maybe could run longer on an album, on the single, they would just fade it out at the end, so that the sound would fit on the record.

CORNISH: So, that's meaningful in the age of the algorithm, because people are -- do a lot of hand-wringing, especially with A.I. chopping -- topping the charts right now.

People wonder, like the -- the -- is the music, in a sense, being dictated by the algorithm? Sentence caps.

RIVA: This is a great question, and one thing I -- I think one of the key threads in the book is that technology always impacts what artists make. And we see that with the length of songs. You know, like I said, a vinyl single could only hold so much sound.

So, in the '50s and '60s, we see songs are in the two-and-a-half to three-minute range.

Vinyl technology improves, songs get longer. And in the same way that artists are reacting to how Spotify works, how streaming works, they've always reacted to the technology that their music was listened to, or the technology used to record.

CORNISH: That's how you get an album with, like, 30 tracks, because they're trying to boost their streams.

RIVA: Exactly. And that's what we've seen, is you're getting longer albums from superstars with a bunch of short songs. And that's really to try to boost your streams and make as much money as possible through the financial incentives of streaming.

CORNISH: Well, thank you for coming in. We're hitting the holiday season, where I feel like we, all of a sudden, are more open to hearing music from different decades --

RIVA: Yes.

CORNISH: -- as we sort of embrace the season. So, thank you for being here, Chris.

Stay with us. Because straight ahead on CNN THIS MORNING, will they or won't they? The Coast Guard pushing back on claims that it's going to soften its stance of symbols of hate, for instance, swastikas and nooses.

Plus, a highly anticipated sit down at the White House, President Trump meeting with New York Mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani.

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