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Washington Post: Coast Guard Reverses New Policy On Hate Symbols; New Rule Would Cap Nursing Degrees Student Loans; Oval Office Meeting: President Trump And New York Mayor-Elect Mamdani; Just Imitating? Eminem Sues Beach Company "Swim Shady". Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired November 21, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:30:46]

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everybody. I'm Audie Cornish. I want to thank you for joining me on "CNN This Morning."

It's half past the hour and here's what's happening right now.

CNN has obtained the draft of a 28-point peace proposal for Ukraine. This plan calls for major territorial concessions by Kyiv. Ukraine would also have to stay out of NATO and limit its military to 600,000 troops. It would be required to hold new elections within 100 days. And in return, it would receive some security guarantees.

And Democratic Representative Eric Swalwell running for governor of California. He made that announcement on his website saying, he's running in part to, quote, "Keep the worst president in history out of our lives."

California's current governor Gavin Newsom is term limited and can't run for that office again.

And Pras of the Fugees sentenced to 14 years in prison. The Grammy winner was found guilty of funneling illegal donations to former President Obama's 2012 re-election campaign. And his lawyer says they are going to appeal the sentence.

And "The Washington Post" says the U.S. Coast Guard issued a new, more stringent policy on hate symbols, for instance, on swastikas and nooses overnight.

[06:35:03]

The thing is this was just hours after the paper's report saying that the service would label those symbols as, quote, potentially divisive. A Coast Guard memo updated overnight reads divisive or hate symbols and flags are prohibited.

Now, the acting Coast Guard Commandant called the "Post's" reporting, quote, categorically false, but for some lawmakers, the damage was already done. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARK KELLY (D-AZ): Can you think of a worse hate symbol than a swastika? I mean, what an insult to American Jews and to everybody across our country and across the world, really, that they say that that is no longer a hate symbol.

I'd be -- I'm interested to hear where it came from.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Group Chat is back.

Elliot, I want to come to you because I think many years ago under the Obama administration, there was this like, we're going to root out extremism in the military, so symbols and what you say. And then the new sort of regime comes and says, we're not a woke military. Say whatever you want.

So, what was strange about this kind of attempt around these issues?

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Honestly, to me, it's less about the specific symbols and more about the fact that in a day, there was a whirlwind of, is a swastika OK versus is it not?

It's more of a --

CORNISH: Because the reporters had found out about it. OK.

WILLIAMS: Sure. Sure, sure. But I mean, it's indicative of the fact that there isn't a lot of process in there, and folks are making decisions quickly on an almost gut basis, and then, wait a second, oh, there's blowback, let's quickly change our minds.

It just seems like a lack of seriousness in organization as much as it is. Like, before you even get to the question of, do you --

CORNISH: Yes.

WILLIAMS: -- think swastikas are bad? Because the answer ought to be yes.

CORNISH: I want to play for you Representative Eugene Vindman of Virginia. He's, of course, a retired U.S. Army officer. Has, of course, had clashes with the Trump folks in the past, but here is how he kind of framed this conversation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. EUGENE VINDMAN (D-VA): It is extremely hard for me to imagine that -- that the swastika in the news could be declassified as symbols of hate. I would have serious concerns.

But on the other hand, we've seen us going down a -- a really slippery slope in -- in renaming back military bases to names of Confederate seditionists. We've seen the elimination of -- and -- and demonization of diversity.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Turning to the side of the table, Tiffany, we know that Hegseth has said repeatedly, it's not a woke military. We don't believe in this. We don't believe in that. Was the Coast Guard trying to respond to that?

TIFFANY SMILEY, FORMER WASHINGTON SENATE CANDIDATE: Yes. Well, they obviously, you know, it's agreed that it was the reports are categorically false, but this is wrong. And -- and they have addressed it, and it should be investigated.

These harmful, hurtful, awful symbols have no place in our military, in our country. And our military has one job is to defend the Constitution and protect the American people, and that should be the focus.

CORNISH: OK. I want to talk about one more thing. You guys stay with me here.

So there's a new part of the Big, Beautiful Bill that places a cap on certain kinds of student loans, and nursing students may feel the brunt of it.

So the Department of Ed is proposing a new rule which would redefine professional degrees that includes pharmacy, dentistry, veterinary medicine, but not nursing. And that means that that could cut down their student loan access.

The American Nurses Association released a statement urging the department to reverse course, adding, quote, "At a time when healthcare in our country faces a historic nurse shortage and rising demands limiting nurses access to funding for graduate education threatens the very foundation of patient care."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Can you imagine going to school for years and then your degree is suddenly just wiped out of the list of professional options?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How about they go to school for six years and get a master's and see how professional that is?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: As someone who's been studying in my ass off for two and a half years in a doctorate of nursing practice program, to now be told that my profession is not professional, is beyond disrespectful.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Joining me now, Anya Kamenetz, journalist and author of "Generation Debt."

Anya, thanks so much for talking with me because this is not just about the classification, right? This is about money. This is about whether or not you can get help with those degrees. Talk about the proposal.

ANYA KAMENETZ, JOURNALIST, THE GOLDEN HOUR SUBSTACK: That's exactly right. So as part of the so-called Big, Beautiful Bill, the access to PLUS Loans has been severely reduced or eliminated. And PLUS Loans were for graduate school and they had no cap.

Now, you know, that can be a problem because it means mounting debt. But there's an exception to the PLUS Loan rule and that was for professional students. Professional students were able to borrow up to a $200,000 aggregate limit. And now the problem comes where they're saying, well, nurses are actually not part of that list of professions.

[06:40:17]

And just to note, you know, they did include chiropractors, they did include professors of theology, but they've excluded, you know, the backbone really of the healthcare profession in the United States, almost five million people.

CORNISH: Can you talk about the implications for this in education, but also in the nursing profession?

People who do this work, they're very committed to it. I don't see them just suddenly saying, I'm not going to do this anymore. But are there impacts that maybe some of us aren't understanding?

KAMENETZ: So we should clarify, you know, there are levels of nursing that you can practice with an associate's degree and a bachelor's degree. And so this change really impacts those who choose to go on in their profession to earn graduate degrees, which enable them to do things like diagnose and prescribe medication, lead research, and perhaps teach other nurses.

And so what happens beyond that, if they lose access to these -- these loans, which is, you know, overwhelmingly what it takes to complete that professional certification, that might impact space at nursing schools, because these -- these graduate students might be funding slots that other students are taking in -- in the bachelor's degree program.

So it impacts the pipeline of the profession. It impacts the professional expansion for nurses as they go through their careers and it might impact the space for other folks as we heard. There is obviously huge healthcare shortage in this country.

CORNISH: Yes. Even general practitioners, especially in rural areas. We don't have a lot of time left, but I did want to get your point of view on this idea that some of these jobs that are no longer on the list are jobs that are disproportionately done by women.

KAMENETZ: Oh, my gosh. I mean, almost nine out of 10 nurses are women in the United States. And I think you heard from the folks on TikTok, right? There's a feeling of respect, you know, what are we able to call a profession? What are we not calling a profession, even though they may be performing very much the same work to keep people healthy?

CORNISH: That's Anya Kamenetz. Thanks so much for talking with us.

KAMENETZ: Thanks for having me, Audie.

CORNISH: And if you want to hear more of that conversation or share some of that conversation, please know we are a podcast, which means you can scan this QR code now to find it and share "CNN This Morning" because it's available anywhere you get your podcast.

And next on CNN, can they bury the hatchet? New York mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani comes face to face with President Trump today in a White House meeting.

Plus this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm just blessed. I'm happy. God is good. God (INAUDIBLE) like ugly. Yes, I'm blessed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: A Chicago mother free, no longer facing charges after being shot by a Border Patrol agent.

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[06:45:21]

CORNISH: So they've never met, but they already have beef. Today, that's going to change, maybe. New York mayor-elect, Zohran Mamdani, will come face to face with President Trump in the Oval Office.

We likely won't get to see it. At least as of now, the White House is keeping this meeting closed to press, which means no cameras.

When asked if he was prepared for a potential ambush inside the Oval, Mamdani said, look, nothing is personal.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ZOHRAN MAMDANI, NEW YORK MAYOR-ELECT: Well, I think being a New Yorker means that you're prepared for all situations, all kind of comments, all kind of commentary. And at the end of it, the focus has to be, what's the case that you're making? Why are you there?

And for me, it's not about myself. It's not about a relationship with an individual. It's about a relationship between New York City and the White House.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Joining me now, Christina Greer, an Associate Professor of Political Science at Fordham University. Good morning, Christina.

CHRISTINA GREER, ASSOCIATE PROFESSOR OF POLITICAL SCIENCE, FORDHAM UNIVERSITY: Good morning, Audie.

CORNISH: So, I think a lot of people are asking why Mamdani apparently asked for this meeting. Obviously, he always said he wanted to talk with the president, but he hasn't even officially entered office yet, and it feels like a very high stakes time for him.

GREER: It is, Audie. But, you know, when the mayor gets sworn in on January 1st, which is so beautiful in New York, it's the first day of the year, and we'll have a brand new mayor, 111th mayor, he promised on the campaign trail that he would meet with Donald Trump, if necessary, because the president swore that he would take money away from New York. There are hundreds of, you know, millions of dollars, if not billions of dollars that we get from the federal government. And we desperately need it for a host of programs and -- and institutions in the city.

And so making sure that the mayor-elect starts on the right foot with the money needed to provide goods and services to New Yorkers is a priority of the Mamdani administration. And so meeting with the president is in line with those values.

CORNISH: So he says it's not personal, but we've also -- and Trump often says that his attacks against candidates, right, in the -- in the heat of campaigns, is not personal.

But we do want to play for people some context here of what the dialogue has been like between them up until this point.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It's going to be hard for me as the president to give a lot of money to New York, because if you have a communist running New York, all you're doing is wasting the money you're sending there.

MAMDANI: If anyone can show a nation betrayed by Donald Trump, how to defeat him, it is the city that gave rise to him.

So, Donald Trump, since I know you're watching, I have four words for you, turn the volume up.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[06:50:09]

CORNISH: Christina, these are two politicians who are in a way defined by their skillful use of the internet, right? Trump is kind of the social media president. Mamdani was called the internet's mayor.

What are you going to be watching for out of this? We're saying it's closed, but I don't know if it's definitely going to be closed in the end. So, what are you going to be listening for?

GREER: Right. These are both very skilled politicians, to be very honest, in two different generations. But, you know, obviously, the president is going to come out and he's going to say that he won the conversation. He's going to probably tell the American public what he told Mamdani was and was not going to happen.

But I think Mamdani has been, if nothing else, very disciplined with his message. And so the fact that he's showing New Yorkers that he's willing to keep trying to -- to get good on the promises that he made during the campaign trail, I think buys him some goodwill from, you know, millions of New Yorkers who decided not to vote at all or who didn't vote for him.

You know, the president clearly respects Mamdani to a certain extent because he has done so well. I mean, those are the types of things that the president looks at. The fact that Mamdani essentially was polling it one percent this time last year.

So the fact that he's able to, you know, galvanize so many people, we know that the president pays attention to those things.

I -- I know that the president also need some wins. You know, he said a pretty rough few weeks. So there's something. You can't keep saying that the economy's great and people don't feel anything when they clearly -- they clearly do based on some of the policies that the president has enacted.

So, I'm definitely looking for how he frames their conversation. Obviously, you know -- you know, I've decided I want to work with him, the same way we saw him in San Francisco.

CORNISH: Yes.

GREER: I'm sending him the National Guard. Never mind. Some friends told me I shouldn't. So I'm not going to do it.

We know that this president is growing -- increasingly more erratic. So, you know, honestly, we can't predict how he's going to frame it. But I think he -- he definitely needs a win.

CORNISH: Yes. It'll be interesting. I'm glad you're bringing up this point about affordability, concerns about the economy again to people. Trump needs a win in that respect. And Mamdani is someone who's made a lot of promises around it.

Christina Greer, thank you so much for being here.

GREER: Anytime, Audie.

CORNISH: All right. I want to turn to this. Prosecutors dropping charges against a Chicago woman who was shot multiple times by a Border Patrol agent. She was accused, along with another individual, of using a car to strike and lock in a Border Patrol agent on the city's southwest side.

The agent then opened fire on her. An investigation found the agent bragging about the shooting in a text message saying, I fired five rounds and she had seven holes. Put that in your book, boys.

So time to lawyer up with CNN an illegal analyst Elliot Williams. We wanted to show the text because that actually came up in this case in a lot of ways. It hinged on it.

I want to show you some others because even though there's some profanity in them, in one message, the agent is discussing an article about the incident, "Sweet. My 15 minutes of fame."

WILLIAMS: Yes.

CORNISH: How much of a -- how much did these play into this case?

WILLIAMS: We don't know and can't know because, you know, what decisions the prosecutors make are private. That said, I know as a former prosecutor, one thing that has to happen is that the prosecution has to turn over to the defense, all of the evidence in its possession.

And number two, all of the sort of exculpatory evidence they have, information that makes the crime seem worse. When you have an agent putting in writing things about FAFO, and I fired five times and, you know, put seven or seven times --

CORNISH: Yes.

WILLIAMS: -- but five bullets in her, it just does not look good. And you can have to put that in front of a jury. Prosecutors knew they could not move forward.

CORNISH: Can you put this in the context of what happened with this person, right? Accused of somehow like broadsiding the vehicle --

WILLIAMS: Yes.

CORNISH: -- of ICE. I know ICE in Chicago was very much under judicial scrutiny for --

WILLIAMS: Yes.

CORNISH: -- use of force.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

CORNISH: Can you put this case in context with the rest of that?

WILLIAMS: Sure, absolutely. And what nationwide, you know, the -- the administration's immigration enforcement has been a matter of what's a tension around the country in -- in many, many cities.

Now, this individual was accused of driving the car and screaming about la migra, sort of the name for ICE when she did so.

Now, some -- there's ambiguity as to what actually happened there. But again, the question is what can prosecutors prove in court? And do they feel comfortable with the case they have?

And when you start having bad information, derogatory information about the people who are accused of having committed the act, it's just not a case that prosecutors are likely to move forward with. CORNISH: OK. I want to turn to something else, which seems random. And I was like --

WILLIAMS: Oh, no.

CORNISH: -- why is this happening? Eminem --

WILLIAMS: Yes.

[06:55:00]

CORNISH: -- I think having a little bit of a legal battle, maybe with a beach umbrella company.

WILLIAMS: This is true.

SMILEY: This is true?

WILLIAMS: This is true.

CORNISH: This is true. The com -- just tell me what happened first. And I'll tell you the company's statement.

WILLIAMS: I'm -- swim shady. The real swim shady. Would you other swim shadys please stand up? And literally there was an Australian beach umbrella company called the real Swim Shady.

Now, Eminem's folks and his -- you know, his team have sued on a fact -- on account of the fact that this is an infringement of his trademark. One of the great works of our generation.

CORNISH: Yes.

WILLIAMS: But the point -- but the point is --

CORNISH: But one intimately tied with his public persona.

WILLIAMS: Intimately tied with his public persona. Number one, he's called Slim Shady. That's a nickname of his. Number two, no one can deny that. And the bigger, broader legal point is with trademark, when someone has registered an identity and another person seeks to profit off of it, that's grounds for a loss, you know, so he's got --

CORNISH: OK. But here's what the company says --

WILLIAMS: OK.

CORNISH: -- Elliot Williams with your lawyer up.

"Swim Shady is a grassroots Australian company that was born out of a desire to produce stylish and effective sunshades and other items to protect from the harsh Australian sun. We will defend our valuable intellectual property."

WILLIAMS: What I -- my response to that is, bro.

CORNISH: What?

WILLIAMS: Look, literally no one on the planet looks at Swim Shady umbrellas and does not immediately think of Eminem. And there are very few clear.

CORNISH: Well, that's what's going to be decided in court. You can't decide here what's going on with these.

WILLIAMS: Well, no, but that's a trademark works though.

CORNISH: Yes.

Williams: It's sort of how obvious is it? And this is pretty clear on its case.

CORNISH: OK. So you say he has a case?

WILLIAMS: I think he's got a case.

CORNISH: OK.

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, NEW YORK TIMES JOURNALIST: Those umbrellas look nice, though.

CORNISH: They do. They do? OK.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

CORNISH: You guys, now it's time to talk about what's in your group chat. Tiffany's new, it's your turn.

SMILEY: Yes. Affordability. I think, you know, President Trump has been working hard to bring down the costs for consumers. And not only that, but for small business owners and homeowners. I think we need to see interest rates drop next month.

CORNISH: Wait, wait. Are people actually texting about that? And --

SMILEY: Yes.

CORNISH: -- are they really like things are expensive? Or are they like --

SMILEY: Yes.

CORNISH: -- hey, is the White House needing to talk better about this?

SMILEY: Well, things are expensive. I even talk about it with my kids, who -- my son even said, there's no way I'm going to be able to buy a house.

CORNISH: Wait, how old is your son?

SMILEY: Eighteen.

CORNISH: Oh, thank God. What if he's like five? I'm like -- SMILEY: But he's working.

CORNISH: -- what's going on?

SMILEY: And he's going to college. And he's starting to understand the expenses and -- and

CORNISH: Yes. The messaging to this generation is you won't get there.

SMILEY: -- how the cost of everything matters. And I'm talking to small business owners who need interest rates to come down.

So I think it's important to realize that over the last four years, the Biden administration really took us to the brink of financial ruin and then expanded an upscale government and spent trillions in -- in new spending.

So President Trump is trying to roll that back and deliver results for the American people.

CORNISH: OK. That's a long group chat, so.

SMILEY: Well, I think it'll be important in the next three years --

CORNISH: Yes, what you actually do.

SMILEY: -- to see that delivery for the American people.

CORNISH: Lulu, for you.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: For me, there was an opinion piece in my paper, "The New York Times" that said, "The Screen That Ate Your Child's Education." This has ping ponged around all of my group chats.

CORNISH: And this is an article about the movement of bringing laptops to public education.

GARCIA-NAVARRO:: To public education.

CORNISH: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But basically, what this article basically says is that we all know the dangers of the cell phones for our young people. But actually, the introduction of laptops into schools has meant that kids are now, I think as we know, watching video games, watching YouTube, some are watching pornography, and they're not actually doing their work.

And it is questioning whether we actually do need this technology in our schools. And it prompted a really big debate.

CORNISH: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And I will say, with a kid whose dyslexic, it's complicated because it actually an assistive technology helps her. So I don't want to dismiss that. But by and large, I have to say a lot of the parents were like, I don't know if having a laptop in school is actually the best thing to my kids' time.

CORNISH: It's interesting to see this move from the parental phone- free school movement, which is very much a parent-driven movement, to now it moving to the other assistive technologies.

For you, Elliot.

WILLIAMS: I apologize for what you're about to hear.

CORNISH: That's why you're last.

WILLIAMS: That's why I'm last. I'm obsessed with a "Wall Street Journal" article about Green Wednesday the day before Thanksgiving.

CORNISH: No, there's another day?

Williams: No, but listen, this is about --

CORNISH: Don't wan to be more (INAUDIBLE).

WILLIAMS: -- this is about-- it's about weed. And now the cousin walk, the escape that people have to get away from thanks -- can get away from the acrimony of Thanksgiving, is increasingly about marijuana. And it's turned into big business.

And when I say Green Wednesday, cannabis providers are now beginning to cash in on the fact that more people legally are consuming cannabis around the country.

And two, Thanksgiving, where there's a lot of food and a lot of snacking --

CORNISH: Yes.

WILLIAMS: -- you got those munchies, people are doing it.

CORNISH: Coast trip to fan.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I was hoping that it meant like the walk that you go with your cousins to look at the greenery outside. Not like the one that you're like smoking.

CORNISH: It's not that.

WILLIAMS: You just want to touch the greenery. And, no, people want -- want more.

CORNISH: But it also, there was actually just new rules out about hemp. And that has affected some sort of THC adjacent sales. Don't ask me how I know that.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Do you celebrate Green Wednesday?

CORNISH: Not yet. Happy Green Wednesday to all who will celebrate.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Sorry.

CORNISH: Thank you to the group chat. Thank you for waking up with us. Needless to say, we tackled a lot today. And the headlines are next.