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Peace Plan for Ukraine; U.S. Designates Venezuelan Cartel as Foreign Terrorist; American Believe the Economy is Not Better. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired November 24, 2025 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: So, I feel very optimistic that we're going to get there in a very reasonable period of time very soon.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Progress on a peace plan between Russia and Ukraine. A leaked 28-point U.S. proposal includes Ukraine surrendering territory to Russia. President Trump wants the deal signed by Thanksgiving.

Good morning, everybody. I'm Audie Cornish. I want to thank you for joining me on CNN THIS MORNING.

It's half past the hour. And here's what's happening right now.

Today, President Trump expected to unveil a new plan to address rising health care costs. Three people familiar with the matter told CNN the proposal aims to fulfill the president's promise for a better alternative to Obamacare.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: $805. That's disgusting. So, yes, I don't know what I'm going to do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Key subsidies expected to expire at the end of the year, and premiums are projected to more than double.

And 50 students in Nigeria have been reunited with their families after being kidnaped from a catholic school. On Friday, more than 300 students and teachers were taken from their school. Fifty students, some just ten years old, managed to escape this weekend.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is America. Don't catch you slippin' now. Don't catch you slippin' now.

(END VIDEO CLIP) CORNISH: And Childish Gambino, aka Donald Glover, revealing he had a stroke last year while on tour. Glover said that it started with a pain in his head and then his vision started failing. And that's when he went to the doctor where they discovered the stroke, a hole in his heart and a broken foot.

And Ukraine is touting a weekend of peace talks with the U.S. as highly productive after concerns a proposed deal by the Trump administration was heavily tilted towards Russia. Europe is also countering with its own plan for peace, as the U.S. deal now seems to be changing. Under the leaked 28-point plan, Ukraine would give away much of its territory to Russia, including one area on this map colored in purple that Russia's military doesn't even control. Ukraine would also be forbidden from joining NATO.

Just a few hours ago, Germanys foreign minister says, quote, "all issues concerning Europe, including those concerning NATO, have been removed from this plan. This is a decisive success that we achieved yesterday."

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelenskyy also tells Sweden's parliament he believes his country's concerns are now being heard.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VOLODYMYR ZELENSKYY, UKRAINIAN PRESIDENT: We all continue working with partners, especially the United States, and look for compromises that strengthen but not weaken us. And we will continue explaining how dangerous it is to pretend that aggression is something one can simply overlook and move on.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: And President Trump also weighing in on the talks, suggesting big progress is being made. Just moments ago he posted on social media, quote, "don't believe it until you see it, but something good just may be happening."

We're bringing in David Sanger to the chat. He's CNN political and national security analyst.

Thanks for being here.

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Great to be here.

CORNISH: So, there's the Truth Social post. We played Marco Rubio earlier. Help me translate what's coming out of the White House from different directions.

SANGER: Well, it sure is a little confusing because it was only 24 hours ago that the president was sending out these long diatribes, that the Ukrainians weren't grateful enough, that the war would not have started had the president, of course, been in office, but also if the Ukrainians had had better leadership, a swipe at Zelenskyy.

CORNISH: Who is suffering in a corruption scandal, I think, in Ukraine right now.

SANGER: And weakened by a corruption scandal and weakened by the fact that the Russians have made some gains.

Look, the thing to watch here is that the words you heard out of Marco Rubio, and what you heard about -- from the president, didn't match up as much as they wanted to. So, Rubio calls in, as you were discussing earlier, to a group of senators who are up at a conference in Canada and basically admits that most of this document had come out of a draft from the Russians. As soon as they say so publicly, the State Department, the White House, went on this huge effort to say, no, it didn't. This was an American drafted plan, so forth and so on.

Well, earlier in the week, the White House spokeswoman had said that, in fact, Marco Rubio had been drafting part of the plan. So, that didn't seem to match up. Rubio had to back up --

CORNISH: The reason why this matters is for the Europeans, they are trying to figure out, OK, what is -- what is going to be coming here that will have long term security for our continent, that won't leave us open to further attack from Russia.

I want to play for you Lithuania's foreign minister, because they were speaking at the E.U. parliament in Belgium.

[06:35:03]

And this is what they had to say about what is mostly in the U.S. plan, which is like giving up a lot of territory to Russia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KESTUTIS BUDRYS, LITHUANIAN FOREIGN MINISTER: We know what Russia wants. Russia wants to dismantle NATO. Russia wants to push out Americans from Europe. To review the security architecture. And we have to be there in -- where this is discussed. And especially with our allies and partners.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: I bring this up because, unlike the Mideast plan, where you have maybe some Arab nations that are like, OK, let's have a conversation, it could look like this. You didn't have that here, right?

SANGER: That's right.

CORNISH: It's like Witkoff and a piece of paper.

SANGER: Through Europeans have been asked to go finance the war now that the U.S. has sort of pulled out of that, but they weren't involved in the drafting of this -- of this draft agreement. Now they're in it.

Now, that's critical for a couple of reasons. First of all, if you're going to expect them to pay for the war, they need to be a part. Second, the draft specifically said that NATO troops could not be based as peacekeepers inside Ukraine. That was going to be the buffer between Russia and Europe. And so, the Europeans are saying, why should we agree that, you know, we can put our troops wherever a welcoming allied country wanted to go put them.

And then the other piece of this, of course, is that it was asking NATO to change its guidelines so that Ukraine could never enter the alliance, and Ukraine to commit that it would never apply to enter. Well, that's between NATO and the Ukrainians in the European mind.

CORNISH: Not for U.S. and Russia to dictate.

SANGER: Right.

CORNISH: Yes.

SANGER: And certainly not for Putin to dictate.

CORNISH: OK.

You guys, I want to turn to something else now because a foreign terrorist designation is going to go into effect today for Venezuela's infamous cartel de los Soles. The White House claims the group is directly tied to the Maduro regime and is responsible for drug trafficking into the U.S. So this move allows the Trump administration to, for instance, freeze assets tied to the cartel as it makes the case for military strikes against Venezuela. Over the weekend, three international airlines canceled flights from Venezuela as the FAA warns of a potentially hazardous situation. The idea of military action against Venezuela is something even the president's allies are warning against.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): I think you'll see a splintering and a fracturing of the movement that has supported the president, because I think a lot of people, including myself, were attracted to the president because of his reticence to get us involved in foreign war.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Group chat is back.

Sabrina, I know you've been following this for a long time. I do know people talk about Venezuela as a narco state, but I don't necessarily -- it's not clear whether designating it as a former -- a cartel, what difference that could make. Can you talk about, like, what the administration is sort of thinking behind all this?

SABRINA RODRIGUEZ, NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER, "THE WASHINGTON POST": I mean, for the Trump administration, the designation opens up more options of what they can do in Venezuela and opens a broader justification for them doing things in Venezuela right now.

But I think what's interesting -- there's a lot of confusion about why exactly the Trump administration would want to get involved in Venezuela and is doing what it's doing. What we hear from the administration, the majority of the time, is the focus on the drug trafficking. The reality is that the majority of drug trafficking is not just through Venezuela, it's through Colombia, it's through Mexico. So, the focus on Venezuela raises some questions about why.

Now, Venezuela is the largest -- has the largest oil reserves, proven oil reserves, in the world. There's a question about if there is a calculus about what this would mean for the United States domestically if we had access to oil in Venezuela. And I think there's another piece, which is, Trump himself has talked so much about migration patterns from Venezuela. So, is there some type of interest in destabilizing Venezuela, ousting its leader, Nicolas Maduro, if there is a calculus that that would impact the region, if that would impact bringing new leadership into the country?

CORNISH: Yes. And then in "The Times," your paper of record, the Joint Chiefs chairman, Dan Caine, heading to the Caribbean, as the president is said to have reportedly approved plans for covert action there. And I think for the people within the MAGA movement who don't want to be involved in foreign wars --

SANGER: Yes.

CORNISH: Is this starting to walk and quack like a war?

SANGER: Yes, so you are seeing the tensions in MAGA, just as you saw them just before the bombing of Iran in June. Now, in that case, it was a standoff bombing campaign. That's maybe what you see now against -- in the coming days against drug sites, maybe against military sites. But once you have designated this "Cartel of the Suns" as a foreign terrorist organization, we've heard from secretary of secretary -- from the secretary of defense that this opens up options, as you said.

[06:40:06]

And that option may be to go after Maduro as a cartel leader rather than as president of a country.

CORNISH: Right.

SANGER: Now, it's not sure that that "Cartel of the Suns" actually exists. And that's --

CORNISH: Rather than a figure of speech is (ph).

SANGER: Yes. Right.

CORNISH: OK. And then, meanwhile, I just want to say that people in the U.S. do want to know a little bit more about what's going on. They are hearing about deaths in these boat strikes. Just 24 percent believe the Trump administration has clearly explained their position on military action, and 76 percent believe that hasn't been done.

SARA FISCHER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA ANALYST: You know, one of the big misconceptions or confusions points is that Donald Trump has gone so far in targeting fentanyl as a crisis. Fentanyl is a Chinese and a Mexican crisis that has very much less to do with Venezuela. So, I think the American people are confused about how that campaign trail rhetoric matches up with these actions. And then also going to thinking broadly about the Trump administration. First, you had Gaza. He sort of, you know, brokered that peace deal, wanted the Nobel. Now we have Russia-Ukraine. I think for a lot of people, this seems like the third opportunity for Donald Trump -- opportunity being the key word -- to sort of broker a crisis and solve it. Whereas if you look at polling, I think a lot of people don't want any more crisis to be brokered and solved. I think they want Trump to be focusing on domestic policy, the food stamp crisis. We just went through a government shutdown. This feels like an extracurricular thing for a lot of people.

EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: And I think especially because since there hasn't been a great explanation for why and all the things that you just talked about that maybe go up against some of the rationales being offered, it does feel to a lot of people, whether they are in the MAGA movement or beyond America, where we're just sort of like stumbling, blundering into maybe a war here. And that itself brings up a lot of memories for people of foreign entanglements that are exactly the sort of thing that Donald Trump ran against.

CORNISH: Last word to you David. Yes.

SANGER: Yes, I think one of the reasons that they're feeling that way is the president has just not laid out his strategic objectives here. As you said, he said it's about drugs, but you don't bring an aircraft carrier in to go deal with 25-foot skiffs that are moving drugs, right? He has said at various moments that it may be about immigration, but we haven't seen a lot of that. They've denied it's about regime change. And you mentioned oil earlier. That's what the president talks about a lot with his aides.

CORNISH: Yes.

SANGER: Now, we do have some American presence in Venezuela, including Chevron. President Maduro made an offer a number of weeks ago to give much more American access to the Venezuelan oil. The president turned it down. Now, maybe he's just negotiating for a better deal.

CORNISH: Yes. But it's starting to -- people are starting to zero in on that as the differentiator compared to other countries in Latin America.

SANGER: Yes.

CORNISH: David, thank you so much for joining us.

SANGER: Thank you. Great to be with you.

CORNISH: Appreciate it.

And if you missed any of that conversation, you want to share it with someone, please know that we are a podcast. You can check us out later in the day. Scan the QR code now to find it. CNN THIS MORNING is available anywhere you get your podcasts.

And next on CNN, recession fears are rising. The Trump administration is very optimistic about the future of the economy, however.

Plus --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I refuse to be a battered wife, hoping it all goes away and gets better.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Marjorie Taylor Greene leaving Congress. What's next for the former MAGA firebrand?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:48:02]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I work two jobs right now and I feel like I can't even afford, you know, what I'm -- what I'm trying to pay for.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I got a letter recently that my property taxes are going to go up $600 a year from now on. I got a letter that my homeowner's insurance is going up $60 a month.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: So, with all these worries about affordability and consumer purchasing power dropping, is the economy headed for a recession? The Trump administration claims no.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SCOTT BESSENT, TREASURY SECRETARY: I am very confident about 2026 because what we are going to see is the president has done peace deals, tax deals and trade deals. The one big, beautiful bill. And to go back to affordability. Affordability has two components. So it's price of goods and real incomes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: OK, but that's not how you all are feeling about it. Look at this Pew Research survey. It found that nearly 75 percent believe economic conditions in the country are fair or poor. The cost of living, food prices, high inflation among the issues driving those concerns.

I'm going to bring in the group chat now to talk about this.

I feel like there's a world of pundits out there already that can talk about the economy. And I bring this up because the White House tends to say, the mainstream media is the one that's saying the economy is bad.

FISCHER: Yes, but people feel it in prices. The inflation issue is still a big problem, especially heading into the holiday season where people are planning for their meals. The whole food stamp issue ahead of the holiday season created even more chaos. Ultimately, I think a lot of Americans feel as though the Trump administration came in saying that they were going to do so much better than Joe Biden did on the economy, only to see inflation still high, mortgage rates are still high, and they want to see the tune switch from this Trump administration. We have seen it, though, Audie, I will say. Trump is starting to talk more about the "a" word, affordability.

CORNISH: I thought that's why he was jawboning with Mamdani in such a friendly way, right? Like, am I making that up?

[06:50:00]

DOVERE: That's part of it, it seems like. Look, Mamdani ran on affordability. That was what it was at the core of it. Everything else that there is to him, Democratic socialism, all this talk about Israel, it was affordability. And that's why he got the response that he did because New York has gotten more and more expensive. But so has pretty much everywhere else around the country. And it's hard to tell people that they are not spending more money on groceries or on their electric bills, or on their health care premiums when they are. Everybody knows it.

RODRIGUEZ: Yes. In the weeks leading up to the election, I mean, I spent a lot of time out on the road in New Jersey and Virginia just talking to voters about this. And this was by far the number one issue that people were talking about. You know, especially for folks who maybe took a chance on voting for President Trump and maybe had not either historically voted or didn't vote Republican, a lot of people voted for him because they thought, OK, it's a change. And now it feels like "Groundhog Day" hearing him say, the economy is great, everything's great, which is something that we heard people really push back on and really feel irritated about hearing out of the Biden administration.

DOVERE: And I think it's especially tricky because we see people who are rich doing well and doing better.

CORNISH: Yes.

DOVERE: And the message that is coming across to some people is, look at this again here. More people are getting -- who are rich are doing well. The stock market is doing well. Oh, there's not a recession, but I'm paying more for groceries. I'm paying more for my costs.

CORNISH: I want to show you this. We've been talking to the CNN business folks. I was talking to them on the podcast as well. And one of the things people are pointing out is there's so much investment in the stock market for A.I., specifically to the point where the question is, if you took the A.I. out of the economy, would we just be in a recession right now? FISCHER: I think people think that A.I. is holding up the markets

right now, and that is a scary thing, because if you talk to people in Silicon Valley, they'd say, we've seen this bubble before, in the early 2000, that this is not sustainable growth.

The other thing that we can't not talk about here is jobs in A.I. You've seen in the past few weeks major corporations announcing huge swaths of layoffs, saying we don't need the same amount of employees, especially at the entry level, than we did before. All of that compounds into this feeling that A.I. was supposed to be the thing that was lifting up the economy, that was going to make sure we were all OK. And now suddenly A.I. is taking our jobs, A.I. is forcing layoffs, and, oh, wait, it might be an A.I. bubble and the stock market will crash.

DOVERE: And also A.I. is making the price of electricity go higher because of the data centers. And, at the same time, the people who are running the A.I. companies are getting richer, the companies are getting better, while all these jobs are starting to disappear.

CORNISH: Yes. I mean I think a lot of these things are in flux. But I'll just add, as we close this, right now the administration is looking at regulations for A.I. and trying to prevent states, right?

FISCHER: I'll see it -- I'll see it when I believe it, Audie.

CORNISH: OK. And we know -- we know this -- this matters at the state level. And it actually mattered to the person we're going to talk about next, Marjorie Taylor Greene. She was someone who fought the provisions to prevent deregulations at the state level of A.I. Of course, she announced her departure from Congress. Media reports this weekend suggested she was stepping down to run for president. But then in a social media post on Sunday, she threw cold water on the idea, saying, "I'm not running for president, never said I wanted to, and have only laughed about it when anyone would mention it." She went on to say, "I am not motivated by power and titles."

So, Greene, of course, announced last week she was leaving office in January. And this was after clashing with the president over the release of the Epstein files and the future of the party heading into the midterms.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): Republicans will likely lose the midterms and, in turn, be expected to defend the president against impeachment after he hatefully dumped tens of millions of dollars against me and tried to destroy me.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Once I left her, she resigned because she wouldn't have -- she would never have survived a primary. But I think she's a nice person.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: OK, group chat. I know a lot of people in Washington are talking about this, number

one, because the timing for her to just sort of suddenly say, no, and this is the end date, a time when the margins are so small in the House. What strikes you about this era?

FISCHER: Well, we also saw polling that suggested higher office in Georgia, whether it was governor or a senatorship, she wouldn't have been able to win those races. So, for her, she's kind of tough out of luck. If she wanted to get out of her House seat and go on to some sort of bigger ambition, polling suggests she wouldn't have been able to do it.

So, I think she sees this as a graceful exit. She'll probably start a podcast, do some sort of, you know, national media push to get that national media attention before trying to probably reengage. The question that I have for her is, in that in between time, what do you do to stay relevant because you can't just jump back in without staying relevant. I usually see -- that's why I say a podcast. It's typically some sort of a media play.

CORNISH: Yes.

FISCHER: But maybe she tries to do something else.

CORNISH: I'm not going to hate on podcasts.

For you guys?

RODRIGUEZ: But I think we can expect her to continue to be a thorn in Trump's side. The fact that she does represent a piece of the MAGA base and has spoken up --

CORNISH: Well, we're about to find out if she does in a way, right?

RODRIGUEZ: Yes.

CORNISH: Like it's one thing from the House perch where your vote matters so much.

[06:55:02]

It's another thing to go off into the media wilderness and do battle with all the MAGA voices who would still be defending Trump.

RODRIGUEZ: But I think in her statement one of the things we saw was her say the quiet part out loud, which is that Congress has been sidelined. And she spoke about the fact that, you know, bills get sidelined every day and that, you know, her talking about Congress not working, about the American government not working, that is a sentiment that a lot of Americans feel and she spoke to, you know.

CORNISH: Yes. And she said, we're not doing anything peaceably.

RODRIGUEZ: And we're looking around after a shutdown, and there is a question about how much Congress is actually getting done and how much this administration has sidelined Congress. So, she is speaking to a very real sentiment. I think it's a question of how she leverages it going forward and what platform she uses for it.

CORNISH: Yes, she mentioned the things that she disagreed with the president about, H1-b visas, replacing Americans, A.I. state moratoriums, and the debt for life, 50-year mortgage scam and involvement in all foreign wars. She's like, other than that, we agreed on everything.

And then lastly, I think I noted that she said, look, there's no plan to save the world or insane 4-D chess game being played, a nod to her QAnon roots, where they talk about 4-D chess a lot.

DOVERE: Yes.

RODRIGUEZ: But she's like, look, there's no there there. This guy is not doing what we wanted him to do and I'm out.

DOVERE: Yes. And look, last Tuesday I was with Marjorie Taylor Greene for part of the day because I was working on a story about Ro Khanna as they were doing the Epstein file release and all the events around it, press conference and all that stuff.

CORNISH: Yes.

DOVERE: It did not seem then that she was backing down. But it is striking that less than a week after Donald Trump unloads on her and says she's terrible and comes up with all of his nicknames for her, she's gone and becomes the latest Republican who says, I disagree with Trump, this can't be what we're doing and, by the way, I'm leaving right?

CORNISH: Yes.

DOVERE: And that -- there's been a lot of talk in the last couple of weeks, is Donald Trump a lame duck? Well, some of this does seem to be wishful thinking of people who want him to be a lame duck. And it -- the fact that Marjorie Taylor Greene, who is more of a presence in her own right than almost any other member of Congress, couldn't survive more than a week after breaking with Trump, says something about how much his hold on the Republican Party and on, at least for the time being, the -- what the majorities in Congress still holds.

CORNISH: All right, you guys, I want to talk about what's in your group chat. We're kicking it off on a holiday week, but that doesn't mean things aren't going on. So, Sara, what are you guys talking about?

FISCHER: So, we talked about "Wicked" doing really well at the box office, Audie. That's a big deal because the box office has been struggling a lot. But, you know what's not struggling so much? Big events are not struggling. Actually, like last year, the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade crushed it in ratings. So, I'm going to see how many people tune in. "Wicked" in itself is a huge event. I think what we're seeing is this bifurcation when it comes to big deal things.

CORNISH: Yes. FISCHER: The Super Bowl does well. Thanksgiving does well. "Wicked" does well. But all the long tail stuff, not as well right now.

CORNISH: And, interesting, I think "The Times" had a big takeout about like the comedies and dramas. Upwards of 25 of them that had big a- list stars. Did nothing at the box office. So, all you people complaining that there's not enough comedies and dramas, you're part of the problem, Sara.

What's going on?

RODRIGUEZ: I think for me it's been all the memes from the Mamdani- Trump meeting and all the conversation around it. I think a lot of people going into it thought, oh, this, like, showdown.

CORNISH: Yes, it was supposed to be like a showdown. Yes.

RODRIGUEZ: You know, like the Fox News headline was showdown with socialism. And then you have Trump saying, like, I think he's going to surprise people. And, you know, saying he's a rational man and that they had a great conversation.

CORNISH: And because the Oval Office has, in the last couple of months, became a place that arguably Democrats see as a space for ritual humiliation, right? It's that picture of Gretchen Whitmer holding the folder over her face.

RODRIGUEZ: Absolutely. And to see Mamdani navigate it the way he did and see Trump respond the way he did was definitely upsetting for all the Republicans who have been putting out statement after statement, really trying to cast Mamdani as this boogeyman.

CORNISH: Yes.

RODRIGUEZ: But I think the highlight of the memes was definitely one of, like, Trump looking up at Mamdani and people saying, like, find a man who looks at you the way that Trump looks at Mamdani.

CORNISH: Everyone likes a winner.

Isaac, you?

DOVERE: I'll give you some counterprogramming in terms of arts content. The "Death by Lightning" miniseries on Netflix, which is about James Garfield and Chester Arthur, not people that you would expect to headline a Netflix miniseries, is fantastic. I think all the political nerds, you will learn more about those two guys than you ever knew.

CORNISH: This is great. So, it's not a doc. It's like a drama about this.

DOVERE: No, it's not a doc. It's -- no, it's Nick Offerman as Chester Arthur. So, it's really -- it is surprising in a lot of ways, including just how much it brings you into the moment.

CORNISH: Yes, this is "Deep Cuts" president's wise.

DOVERE: Yes, definitely.

CORNISH: But not presidential economies wise.

DOVERE: James -- yes.

FISCHER: I kind of love this, though, because for a while, coming out of the pandemic, after January 6th, all the streamers were so afraid of political content.

CORNISH: Yes.

FISCHER: They wanted to just lean into very, you know, soft and happy stuff. And I think just now that we're reverting back in, it actually gives me a little bit of hope that we're, as a nation, OK with doing more self-reflection on politics than we were coming out of that very volatile period.

[07:00:03]

DOVERE: And these 19th century politics.

CORNISH: Or at least -- oh, to soon? Yes, that's -- that's -- this is a safe position for which we can have this discussion. But you're right, it's where the proxy conversations have. And when Hollywood's afraid, sometimes it feels like we're not having them.

FISCHER: Yes.

CORNISH: You guys, thank you so much for being with us. Thank you for waking up with us. I'm Audie Cornish, and the headlines start now.