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White House Defends Admiral Who Ordered Follow-up Strike; Voters Head to Polls in Tennessee Special Election; Olivia Nuzzi's Memoir Details Affair Confessions. Aired 6-6:30a ET

Aired December 02, 2025 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:00:11]

BRIAN ABEL, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you for joining us here on EARLY START. I'm Brian Abel in Washington, D.C. CNN THIS MORNING with Audie Cornish starts right now.

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Tension in the White House as Venezuela's leader digs in. And the defense secretary deflects blame for a deadly boat strike.

CNN THIS MORNING starts right now.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It diverges significantly from what both the legal opinion that we were provided. And it, of course, plays into the very concerns that members have as to the fact that these strikes are occurring at all.

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CORNISH: So, who made the call to double-tap a suspected drug boat in the Caribbean, killing the survivors?

And Russia's President Putin meets with a U.S. delegation today as both sides test a possible path towards ending the war in Ukraine.

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DONALD TRUMP, U.S. PRESIDENT (via phone): I won your state by 22 points. I won the area by something, I think, even more than that.

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CORNISH: And yet, a Trump stronghold gets tested. Today, voters head to the polls in Tennessee.

And cars collide as snow falls and millions of Americans in the Northeast and beyond head to work.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's finally talk about the cheating scandal that's engulfing all of politics, media, journalism, and Hollywood.

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CORNISH: Blurred lines between a journalist and the politician she covered. Today, that scandal gets exposed in a big way.

And a thousand bucks per baby? The White House creates a savings plan for kids. What it promises and what it does not.

It's 6 a.m. here on the East Coast. This is a live look at the Capitol, where we don't have sleet or snow yet. So, I have to say thank you. But this is what the road looks like in Ohio. And please, stay safe.

Here's where we begin today. The Trump administration shifting its response to the, quote, "double-tap strike" on an alleged drug boat in the Caribbean. And now, they've given a name of who made that call.

In the initial reporting of the September 2nd strikes, "The Washington Post" claims Secretary Hegseth told commanders before the mission to, quote, "kill everybody." And a double-tap bombing then took out survivors who were in the water.

Now, Secretary Hegseth called the initial reports "fabricated, inflammatory, and derogatory."

Now, the White House is confirming the attacks, and Hegseth says he supports the actions of Admiral Mitch Bradley that day, saying he, quote, "stands behind him, stands by him and the combat decisions he has made."

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SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): He is passing the buck. He sort of sees the freight train that is coming, right? That both Republicans and Democrats are coming to the conclusion that this was an illegal, wildly immoral act. And he is shifting the blame.

It's the opposite of the buck stops here. And boy, it's a chilling signal to everyone in the chain of command that the secretary of defense does not have your back.

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CORNISH: OK, as for who gave the orders and when, former Bush DOJ official John Yoo, who wrote the legal opinions on enhanced interrogation techniques, says if the reports are true, this case is clear.

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JOHN YOO, FORMER BUSH DOJ OFFICIAL: I worked on very difficult, I think, 9/11 issues when we're facing a terrorist organization. There are a lot of difficult questions to answer when you're involved with the laws of war. But this is not one of them. It says clearly that you are not allowed

to give orders that say no survivors. Commanders are not allowed to give orders that say no quarter. And so, Hegseth can't give that command legally.

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CORNISH: Joining me now in the group chat, Isaac Dovere, CNN senior reporter; Ashley Davis, former White House official under George W. Bush; and Maria Cardona, CNN political commentator and Democratic strategist.

Isaac, I want to start with you, because when you've lost John Woo [SIC] -- John Yoo, it seems a little confusing. This is the man who backed enhanced interrogation --

EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR CORRESPONDENT: Yes.

CORNISH: -- saying this looks bad.

DOVERE: Not known for being a squish when it comes to those things.

CORNISH: Yes. But also underscoring that Republicans are speaking out on this issue. This is not a conversation that's been driven by Democrats so far.

And Republicans in Congress. John Thune, the Senate majority leader, yesterday was asked about Hegseth, and he said, I'm going to leave it to others to decide what there is going on with him.

This is clearly something that has disturbed members of Congress, Republicans and Democrats, senators, members of the House.

[06:05:02]

And part of what it is, is the -- the complete lack of clarity on what happened here in the telling of Pete Hegseth himself. You -- from what you quoted there. First, he said it -- nothing happened; that was wrong. And then he said. well, if something did happen, it wasn't my fault, essentially.

CORNISH: Right.

DOVERE: The -- the -- that phrase, the combat decisions he has made. Right? Throwing it completely onto someone else.

And while that's been going on, the White House has been trying to navigate what they're saying about it.

CORNISH: Yes.

DOVERE: And it's created a lot of not only confusion, but dissent about what's going on here and what it means for the chain of command inside the Pentagon. And again, within the administration.

CORNISH: So, you have Republican Congressman Mike Turner. He leads the House Armed Services Committee, and he seems to be hinting that his investigation is looking at this more broadly, raising the idea. We heard him earlier that this is occurring at all.

Because you are sort of familiar a little bit with this world, Ashley, what do you make of the fact that Republicans are speaking out now, or what do you see in the way the White House is trying to deflect?

ASHLEY DAVIS, FORMER WHITE HOUSE OFFICIAL UNDER GEORGE W. BUSH: Well, I think that this has been a tough issue for Republicans in Congress, especially on the military committees in the House and Senate, since the beginning, because there hasn't been much coordination or any coordination with Congress.

So, I think that this is something that they can sink their teeth into. Whether Admiral Bradley gets the fall or not. I mean, it's looking that way.

This brings back a lot of flashbacks during the interrogation cases, actually, that we dealt with under George W. Bush. And there is going to be a fall person. I don't right now think it's Hegseth.

You do have a part of the administration right now that is, like, let's keep this conversation alive, because we have Democrats, especially, defending drug runners. And so, there -- there is a whole other side conversation over here that's going on --

CORNISH: Yes.

DAVIS -- that has nothing to do with the double-tap. So --

CORNISH: Because it has merged. Right? You had just last week Democrats getting, basically, in trouble with the administration for saying, Look, troops, you don't have to follow unlawful orders.

But is this complicated by Republicans saying this is unlawful?

MARIA CARDONA, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Correct.

CORNISH: I'm sorry, I don't mean to jump on your point here.

CARDONA: No, no, absolutely. Because I think there's two tangential issues here on the whole Hegseth war crimes.

And first of all, what a profile in courage for Hegseth.

But to your point about the, quote, "drug runners," that whole issue, I think, now becomes less of a -- of a strong talking point for Republicans when you see the pardon that Trump gave to the president of Honduras, who actually was a convicted drug runner.

CORNISH: Right?

CARDONA: And so, for them to use the excuse that that's why they're doing what they're doing in Venezuela completely falls apart. No. 1.

No. 2, to the point of illegal orders. This totally gives Mark Kelly and all of the senators --

CORNISH: Right.

CARDONA: -- and members of Congress that did that video. See, this is why we did that video. And so, I think on those two points, that really helps Democrats politically.

Can I play this: Karoline Leavitt, White House press secretary, when she was responding to these questions and offering up this name.

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UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To be fair to clarify, Admiral Bradley was the one who gave that order for a second strike?

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: And he was well within his authority to do.

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DAVIS: I couldn't hear what she said.

CORNISH: And it was well within his rights to do so.

DAVIS: Yes. I mean, I'd look at Karoline and think, oh, my God. Your job is tough every day.

So, I mean -- I mean, it's going to be a -- listen, I don't know if she's right. Who's right? I think it's going to definitely be litigated --

CORNISH: Right.

DAVIS: -- on the Hill in committees. And they're going to call up a lot of people on this. And Republicans are --

CORNISH: But it's interesting, because a little bit like Epstein, it's a topic that they they're -- no one asked them to start striking boats in Venezuela. Right?

Like, so this is their operation. They've released almost no information about it. And now they're getting tangled up in the information they've released.

DOVERE: And one way that you know that we're into strange territory here is that we're referring to it as a double-tap, which is like a hired assassin term. It's not something that we talk about within the military strike. And -- and --

CORNISH: Which is when you attack and then you attack the survivors afterwards.

DOVERE: Right. And the terminology that we're using, the way that we're talking about this, these were people who were killed. There is a question of whether the United States can just kill people. CORNISH: Yes. And we should be clear. They did do attacks where there

were survivors, and they turned them away. This is not how -- there is some precedent for what happens after an attack.

DOVERE: But they also refused to -- to have them to go through the legal process of having survivors.

CORNISH: So, you guys stay with us. We've got a lawmaker coming up today. We've got somebody who's an expert on Venezuela. So, we're going to hear more.

I want to turn to this for a second. Tennessee heads to the polls today. We're going to talk about why the president says it's a big deal.

Plus, what Venezuela's president, Nicolas Maduro, says he does not want with the U.S.

Plus, winter is back with a vengeance. Brace yourself for a chaotic commute.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Just roll with it. Take a little extra time and just expect delays.

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CORNISH: Voters in Tennessee are heading to the polls today for a special election that's drawing national attention.

Republicans are working hard to avoid an upset in a deep-red congressional district, one the president carried by 22 points just last year.

The race is so close House Speaker Mike Johnson has been on the ground campaigning with Republican Matt van Epps and even brought in the president for a phone call.

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TRUMP (via phone): The whole world is watching. This is a big deal because right now, we're like three votes up on the radical left, and this would be a wonderful victory for us. It will be really a positive sign.

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CORNISH: Joining me now to discuss, Emily Cochrane, domestic correspondent for "The New York Times." Good morning, Emily. EMILY COCHRANE, DOMESTIC CORRESPONDENT, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Good

morning. Thank you for having me.

CORNISH: So, first, I want to talk about the attention on this special election. We like politics. We're always covering every little race here and there, thinking that they mean something for the national conversation. But what is special about this special election?

COCHRANE: It's the last special election of 2025. So, I think a lot of people are looking for any kind of tea leaves ahead of the midterms next year.

But as you said, it's unusual for Tennessee to get this level of attention. And I think both Republicans and Democrats are taking advantage of all of those national eyes, and also all of those national dollars, as well.

CORNISH: So, Speaker Johnson, we mentioned, has been campaigning hard. And he was asked if this is basically -- these other elections, a kind of warning sign this year for Republicans, especially in a district that Trump won by so much. And here's what he told reporters there.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is this a warning sign for the GOP that you are barnstorming the state, the first day back from Thanksgiving recess, in a state that went 20 points for Trump? And you have to be here campaigning so hard?

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): No, ma'am. I did this all last year. He just happens to be the only race in the country right now, so he got my full attention.

But we're delighted to be here to campaign for somebody who is so highly qualified, and we're very much looking forward to having him join us.

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CORNISH: What's going on with this race? How close is it, and is van Epps in a position where he needs his support?

COCHRANE: I think van Epps wouldn't say no to any kind of support from Mike Johnson or President Trump. He got the endorsement from President Trump before he even made it out of the Republican primary.

I do think, considering how successful Republicans have been in this district, which was drawn to favor a Republican candidate, it is making some Republicans nervous that polls, the couple of polls that we have seen, show it to be closer than they would expect.

And I think for Democrats, who are still very frustrated about how a Nashville-based seat was cut up into these three other districts, I think for Democrats, it's -- it's giving them a jolt of energy. It's proving, they hope, that they can either do -- do an upset or that they can close the margins and have people believe that there -- it's viable to be a Democrat in the South.

CORNISH: Yes, I was going to ask. So many people look at Tennessee and see a very red state. That's how it performs in the presidential elections. Are there progressives, liberals, Democrats there who are hoping for more attention? How do you see that?

COCHRANE: Absolutely. Since the redistricting, there's just been a deep frustration. And I think State Representative Aftyn Behn, who is from probably one of the more liberal corners of an already blue city, she's tapped into some of that frustration and some of that enthusiasm to prove that, if Nashville and some other more -- more liberal, more blue parts of the district, if they rally behind a candidate, they can beat a Republican.

It is still favored for Republicans. This district stretches from the Kentucky border to the Alabama border. It goes through a lot of rural counties. It goes through parts of Williamson County, which is a Republican power center at this point.

So, everyone here knows that it's a tough race for a Democrat to beat, but it's certainly tighter than -- than folks were expecting.

CORNISH: That's Emily Cochrane of "The New York Times." Thanks so much.

COCHRANE: Thanks for having me.

CORNISH: After the break on CNN THIS MORNING, President Trump wants to give newborn baby -- newborns baby bonuses. But is it the back door to privatizing Social Security?

And Olivia Nuzzi's memoir out today, shaking up politics and the press. It includes allegations of her affair with RFK Jr.

And good morning, Cleveland, Ohio, as we take a live look at your snowy morning commute.

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[06:23:38]

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I guess I think that, if you hired a journalist who was prominently fired from their last position for sleeping with a subject one year ago, or having a relationship with a subject one year ago, you get what you get, and you can't get upset.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think this is a story about audacity. I think this is a story about a lack of personal ethics and personal boundaries.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was a total lapse in journalistic integrity.

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CORNISH: An affair between a politician and a reporter has graduated from the gossip pages to the "for you" page.

Olivia Nuzzi, currently West Coast editor at "Vanity Fair," wrote some of the biggest stories of election 2024. There was a brutal profile about Biden's mental decline, a promotional one about RFK Jr., and a glimpse of Donald Trump after the attempt on his life.

Now, those stories are being reexamined in the wake of a scorched- earth breakup with journalist Ryan Lizza that has led both sides to expose their private lives for public consumption.

In his newsletter, Lizza alleges that Nuzzi didn't just have an affair with Kennedy, but served as an operational asset to his campaign, as he is now promoting a book called "American Canto," which is out today.

And here to talk more about this is Carolina Abbott Galvao. She wrote about this for "The Columbia Journalism Review."

Carolina, I don't envy you here. The amount of reading you have had to do, because journalists are not keeping things to themselves.

You write that there are no reliable narrators in this scandal. What are some of the most striking allegations?

[06:25:03]

CAROLINA ABBOTT GALVAO, "THE COLUMBIA JOURNALISM REVIEW": So, you know, you mentioned the Lizza Substack and Telos News. You know, there's just a lot of back and forth here with Olivia.

There is a part in the book where she does mention that she lies to her editor. And so, you know, she's not a reliable narrator -- narrator, in that sense.

And, you know, Ryan Lizza, he was fired for -- from "The New Yorker" for improper sexual conduct. And so, you know, it's really hard to know who exactly to believe here.

And, you know, they're both trying to write their way out of it. But you know, it's -- it's unlikely. It's looking like they can't, really, Audie.

CORNISH: Yes. No one's coming out clean.

Just a look at "The New York Post" today: "RFK Jr. Pushed for a Junior." This is an allegation in the book that she somehow -- that her relationship with RFK included wanting to have a child with him.

People are talking about this part of it, the salacious part of it.

There's also an ethics -- journalism ethics scandal here. What did we learn about how some political journalists operate right now?

GALVAO: Absolutely. You know, I think we're learning that, you know, there's absolutely an ethical question. And we know that, well, you know, RFK Jr. denies this romantic involvement with Olivia Nuzzi. But, you know, she has admitted to this, and we know that, you know, she parted ways with "New York" magazine, where she was a Washington correspondent. And so, you know, that relationship is already an ethical, you know, violation of journalistic conduct.

You know, with regard to Ryan Lizza, we can't really -- like you said, he alleges. We can't really know for sure if the Sanford allegations. So, he also says that she had an affair with Mark Sanford. We don't know if that's true or not.

So, you know, but -- but we do -- we do know that an ethical issue violation has taken place already. And so, you know, in terms of what it reveals about how journalists are operating, I think -- you know, I think what it really -- I think something that's important to note is that, whereas this -- this trope of the female or woman journalist sleeping with a source is so common in film and TV, it happens very, very rarely in real life.

And, you know, I think when we're talking about this, it's important to remember that this is kind of an anomaly.

CORNISH: Yes.

GALVAO: It's not a common story.

CORNISH: Yes. Although Carolina, first of all, people are showing a tweet that Nuzzi herself put up in 2015, complaining about this same trope.

And I know, as somebody who's been online saying, hey, this doesn't happen very often, it has been embarrassing to talk about. And can you talk about how women in journalism have been talking about this story, which A, doesn't go away? But B, really kind of undermines this long- running conversation about respect for women in the work.

GALVAO: Absolutely. And you know, another point that, you know, I'd like to raise is that I think we live in a time where trust in journalism is really at an all-time low with everybody, and especially with young people.

And I think with a story like this, it's also difficult, because it doesn't only undermine women in the workplace; it also undermines journalists, really, and the press. And -- and so I think that's why it's important to talk about the fact that this doesn't happen very often.

CORNISH: OK. That's Carolina Abbott Galvao. Thank you for your time. Appreciate it.

GALVAO: Thank you.

CORNISH: Straight ahead on CNN THIS MORNING. More trouble for President Trump's legal appointees. A federal court delivers a rebuke to his New Jersey U.S. attorney, and the fallout could spread.

Plus, Vladimir Putin is about to sit down with the U.S. negotiators. What comes out of this meeting could shift the war in Ukraine.

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