Return to Transcripts main page
CNN This Morning
V Spehar is Interviewed about U.S. Military Strikes on Drug Boat; Claims Johnson Sidelines Women in Congress; Grand Jury Refuses to Re-Indict James. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired December 05, 2025 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:33:56]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST, "THE LATE SHOW WITH STEPHEN COLBERT": The boat was blown to bits. How are they going to continue their drug run? Ride to Miami on the back of dolphin drug mules?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: All right, so we are getting new, real details from sources inside the briefing on the double-tap strike on an alleged drug boat. How the admiral in charge defended the call as the U.S. bombed another boat just this Thursday.
Good morning, everybody. I'm Audie Cornish. I want to thank you for joining me on CNN THIS MORNING.
It's half past the hour, and here's what's happening right now.
People in Minneapolis braving the below zero temperatures to look out for ICE. It comes as the White House orders Border Patrol to target Somali immigrants whom he called garbage. CNN talked to one Somali immigrant who voted and campaigned for the president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MOHAMED AMIN AHMED, SOMALI IMMIGRANT, VOTED FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP: I've got five children. My children are not garbage.
Mr. President, we campaigned for you. We have hope in you. We see hope in you. Please differentiate between good, bad and evil.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Department of Homeland Security says at least 12 people have been arrested so far.
[06:35:01]
Five men from Somalia, six from Mexico and one from El Salvador. Only half have been convicted of a crime.
Today, the CDC's vaccine board could vote on a change to when newborns get the hepatitis b shot. They were expected to take up the vote yesterday, but that was pushed and the delay was due to confusion and disagreement over the language of the votes.
And World Cup fever about to hit a fever pitch. Who will have to take on the defending champs, Argentina? Who will the U.S. play today? Today, that will all be decided at the FIFA World Cup draw. It's going to determine who will be in each group of the World Cup, hosted by the U.S., Canada and Mexico next year.
And on the same day lawmakers learned new information in the double- tap strike controversy, there was another attack. This time, four people are dead. The U.S. military struck its latest alleged drug boat in the Caribbean. The man who gave the order for the double-tap strike is actually -- which happened back in September, met with lawmakers yesterday.
And sources familiar with the meeting exclusively tell CNN that Admiral Frank Bradley told lawmakers two survivors spent 41 minutes struggling to overturn what was left of their boat before the second strike that killed them. Lawmakers watched video of those moments, and it had a different impact for all.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JIM HIMES (D-CT): What I saw in that room was one of the most troubling things I've seen in my time in public service.
SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR): I didn't see anything disturbing about it. What's disturbing to me is that millions of Americans have died from drugs being run to America by these cartels.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: OK, joining the group chat, V Spear, digital journalist and creator for Under the Desk News.
V, I want to start with you because what's new out of this is this admiral saying, we watched these guys for 41 minutes trying to figure out what they were doing, if they were doing something, and then we move forward with this order. What do you think about how this is playing out?
V SPEHAR, DIGITAL JOURNALIST AND CREATOR, UNDER THE DESK NEWS: I think it's another confusing set of data for us right now, right, because just a couple days ago, Secretary of War Hegseth said the fog of war made it impossible for us to know what was going on, on those boats. We didn't know if there were survivors or not. And now, of course, we're hearing that they watched these people struggle for 41 minutes.
In addition, while Admiral Bradley is being reported as the person who gave the command to do the second strike, it was actually Admiral Halsey (ph) who was top brass on September 2nd, the admiral, who had since retired, reportedly because of disagreements he had with Pete Hegseth about the legality of these strikes.
CORNISH: Right. So, the person who we've all heard in reports was like, I'm out of here --
SPEHAR: Right.
CORNISH: Was the one who was around at that time, and it sort of continues to raise questions about these things.
I want to play -- show something to you guys, which is the recent polling. One, the question was, has the Trump administration explained, like, what they're doing? What is the position here in Venezuela? And the answer is, no. And this is not -- like 76 percent of people said no. And the reason why I like to show these is because this isn't green room polling, right? This isn't just like partizans talking about it. It means the average person is like, why?
NOEL KING, CO-HOST AND EDITORIAL DIRECTOR, "TODAY, EXPLAINED" PODCAST: The average person is like, why? And if you look at -- this is great polling. There's additional polling in which Americans are asked, how do you feel about Venezuela? A majority of Americans will say, I don't know. I don't know anything about Venezuela.
So, I think, if you're inside the administration, you want to take a look at polling that is screaming, we don't know what's going on. If you voted for President Trump, you want strong borders and you appreciate the message of revenge. And so, this is going to work for a lot of the base. This is going to work for a lot of people.
But I think people get more and more and more confused and they start to turn on actions like this because they simply don't know what's going on.
CORNISH: And then that leads to conversations about cover-ups. I want to play for you, Jason Crow, who is a Democrat from Colorado.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): The administration appears to be good at only one thing, and that is a cover-up. They have the ability to put out these videos very quickly. They have, in fact, done that. They clearly don't want to put out the footage of the strike at question here, because the facts, as I understand them, look pretty horrible
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: How long can the administration not put out additional information about these strikes?
ROB BLUEY, PRESIDENT AND EXECUTIVE EDITOR, "THE DAILY SIGNAL": Well, it's -- I mean, certainly they gave it to members of Congress. You heard conflicting reaction yesterday. Senator Tom Cotton certainly had a different reaction on the Republican side than what some of the -- you're hearing from some of the Democrats. I think that's important for us to remember that it's being perceived differently. As Noel said -- CORNISH: Yes, let me play that for you.
BLUEY: OK.
CORNISH: Here's Tom Cotton saying how he viewed the strikes.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR): The first strike, the second strike, and the third and the fourth strike on September 2nd were entirely lawful and needful, and they were exactly what we would expect our military commanders to do.
SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): I think it would be hard to watch the series of videos and not be troubled by it.
[06:40:04]
I have more policy questions than ever.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
BLUEY: So, back to the point where you were asking about earlier with regard to the polling. I think that it is important for the Trump administration, Secretary Hegseth and others to continue to explain why they are taking these actions off the coast of Venezuela and other places. It's because hundreds of thousands, in fact, over a million Americans have died from drug overdoses since 1999. These drugs are coming to the United States on boats like this from -- what? This is true, Lulu.
CORNISH: OK, Lulu, what are you --
BLUEY: What -- you're not concerned about those individuals?
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I'm a former -- I'm a -- I'm a former Latin America correspondent. So, let me just inform you that most of the drugs that have killed Americans are fentanyl. Fentanyl comes from China through Mexico. It does not come through Venezuela. And if you were concerned about drugs and drug trafficking to this country, you wouldn't be pardoning the former -- the former president of Honduras, who boasted very openly that he was sending cocaine to this country to shove up the noses of American kids.
So, I mean, the problem that we are having here is that those talking points are not actually reflective of, not only the reality of how drugs come to this country, but also what is the reason that we are now having a quarter of the U.S. military forces on water, the Navy, et cetera, off the coast of Venezuela? You are now hearing Republicans talking about regime change in Venezuela in a way that is antithetical to what people believe Trump is supposed to be about, which is not about foreign entanglements and not about regime change.
The question here is, what is happening in Venezuela? What is the United States committing itself to there? And what is the end game? And that is not being explained by the boats or anything else. CORNISH: Yes. Let me let you answer that because that's a lot.
BLUEY: Well, yes. And, Audie, we've had a conversation about this in the past.
CORNISH: Yes.
BLUEY: I mean, Audie, in fact, sounded like some MAGA conservatives here who are deeply concerned about the entanglement going on because there's -- there is --
CORNISH: Yes. But Lulu's point of what's happening is, every time someone talks about this, a Republican consultant says, just say, but the drugs.
KING: Can they show us what's on the boats? I mean, I'm putting this question to you.
BLUEY: Yes.
KING: Show us what was on the boat.
CORNISH: You mean evidence?
KING: If there's fentanyl on the boat, OK, we can all agree, right?
CORNISH: Not if you blow it up.
(CROSS TALK)
KING: But we can't -- we can't agree on everything.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Right.
KING: Fair. Fair.
SPEHAR: But seeing what's on the boat, we -- we can see what the secretary of war is tweeting, which was, your wish is my command.
CORNISH: Right.
SPEHAR: To the spokesperson from Turning Point USA who said, I want another boat strike last night. And then there was another boat strike. Followed up by libs of TikTok saying, give me another one. So, if what we're missing is the information and clarity from the Pentagon to reporters and journalists about what exactly is going on, and the American public doesn't understand it, what they surely do understand is Secretary of War Hegseth saying, your wish is my command to a conservative podcaster.
CORNISH: Or just joking about it and -- yes.
SPEHAR: It's not a joke. People are dying.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Can I also say that it's killing people. And we don't know who those people are. We don't know. We've seen now, in Latin America, and in the Caribbean, people are suing the United States because they're saying that these were actually fishermen and other people. We do not know who those people are.
CORNISH: Yes.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: And when we see those images, those are people dying there and we don't know who they are. And we should understand that.
CORNISH: Well, I think people -- certainly I understand this argument about drug deaths. I think the math there is a little dubious. You're sort of kind of debts by number of votes divided. I don't understand where this number comes from but I want to talk about it more. I'm glad that you brought it up. This is something we're going to bring back to the show.
I want to turn to something else. The House speaker, Mike Johnson, looking to tamp down a revolt among members of his own party led by women. Just this week, another discharge petition was filed by one of his members, this time by Congresswoman Anna Paulina Luna, aimed at cracking down on stock trading in Congress. In an interview with "The Wall Street Journal" this week, Congresswoman Elise Stefanik said Johnson would probably lose his job as speaker if there was a vote, adding, quote, "I believe that the majority of Republicans would vote for new leadership. It's that widespread."
Speaker Johnson also defending himself from a report in NBC News where two anonymous women told the outlet, quote, "we aren't taken seriously. You have women who are very accomplished, very successful, who have earned the merit, who aren't given the time of day."
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): I think it's a spurless claim. I think there's no foundation in it whatsoever.
I try to empower every woman in the conference. I've been out actively, aggressively recruiting more Republican women, strong conservatives, to run for Congress. We're funding them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Group chat is back.
Rob, I know you were so excited to talk about this one, so I'm coming to you first because you do believe the House speaker has been effective.
BLUEY: I do. Yes.
CORNISH: The weird thing is, the call is literally coming from inside the House. Nobody's asking these women to give these quotes. No one, certainly Republican women, would want to be talking about being women. So, is this a red flag?
BLUEY: It's certainly something that I believe is a distraction for Speaker Johnson at a time when Republicans need to be focused on the priorities that President Trump promised on delivering. Certainly --
[06:45:03]
CORNISH: But couldn't these ladies help deliver it?
BLUEY: They can. And that's why I think that the best method is for them to take their concerns directly to Speaker Johnson, rather than use media outlets and X and other platforms to air their grievances.
CORNISH: Yes.
BLUEY: And I think Speaker Johnson, having known him and talked to him, is somebody who would take those concerns seriously. And he said that publicly, my -- I'm happy to pick up the phone and talk to any of these individuals and help work through the concerns that they have. Instead, they've chosen to take their problems public.
CORNISH: Yes. Although from covering Congress, I remember that, you know, we know why the caged bird sings. It's because it is not being listened to. That's usually when lawmakers kind of talk the most into the press, right?
SPEHAR: Yes.
CORNISH: Silence is when things are going well.
SPEHAR: The most surprising thing is that Republican women are surprised that they're getting exactly what they voted for, right? I mean, Mike Johnson was not shy about saying that he leads with his religion, which is patriarchal in nature and the way that they exact leadership. And he hasn't proved to be a shield between his Congress and the president.
When the Epstein file vote was coming on, who did the president target to try and get them to change their vote? Two Republican women. I think Speaker Johnson, if he really is standing up for women, should be a shield between the president and Republican women, or shouldn't be in a position where they feel like they have to shout to be heard.
CORNISH: I want to also --
SPEHAR: I don't think they're absurd women who are just squawking off on -- to try and embarrass him. I think there's an obvious issue here.
CORNISH: And they took it -- at one point Marjorie Taylor Greene and her sort of exit out was on "The View." I wanted to bring this back because it was pretty specific.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): But when I talk about weak Republican men, I'm pretty much talking oftentimes about the leadership in the House and the Senate. And they're just -- yes, they're not getting our agenda done.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CORNISH: She said much spicier things online, which I can't really say on a morning show.
KING: I think it shows diversity within the Republican Party too.
All right, so Marjorie Taylor Greene is not a person like Mike Johnson. Mike Johnson is an evangelical Christian. Some of the accusations here are that he doesn't take women seriously because he's an evangelical. He believes men are superior. Marjorie Taylor Greene doesn't seem to go in for that. You don't see Nancy Mace appearing to go in for that. Elise Stefanik doesn't seem to go in for that. They're still Republicans. They're still women.
I think this is a distraction. I think it is workplace drama. I think it is very interesting. I'm going to keep watching. I can't look away.
CORNISH: Workplace drama. I don't know how I feel about you saying the ladies are just full of drama here, but, OK.
SPEHAR: Mike Johnson's full of a little bit of drama, yes.
KING: And Johnson. And Johnson. Yes, you seem to be a little drama.
CORNISH: OK, V, thank you so much for being with us. I appreciate your time.
SPEHAR: Thank you.
CORNISH: If you missed any of that conversation or any other part of the show or you want to share it, know that we are a podcast and you can just scan the QR code now to find it. CNN THIS MORNING is available anywhere you get your podcasts.
And next on CNN, turns out second times not the charm. The DOJ fails to re-indict New York Attorney General Letitia James. Are they going to try again?
Plus, Luigi Mangione has been called everything from a folk hero to an avenger. So, how hard will it be for lawyers to seat a non-biased jury? We're going to bring back Elliot Williams next when we lawyer up.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:52:14]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: There's no question about Letitia James, the corrupt attorney general of New York.
The attorney general may be worse. Do you ever watch her? I will get Donald Trump.
(END VIDEO CLIP) CORNISH: Trump administration not giving up on trying to go after political foes. A grand jury yesterday declined to re-indict New York Attorney General Letitia James for mortgage fraud a second time.
So, this comes ten days after a federal judge threw out the initial charges against her and former FBI Director James Comey over the unlawful appointment of Lindsey Halligan, Trump's hand-picked prosecutor.
So, James, in a statement, said that "the charges against me are baseless. It's time for this unchecked weaponization of our justice system to stop."
We had to bring Elliot back to understand what's going on here.
They're going to keep trying, it seems.
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: They can.
CORNISH: They can? For how long? How long are we going to be doing this story is what I'm asking?
WILLIAMS: It's a -- it's a test of will for Pam Bondi and the administration. How long do they want to keep going and losing?
Let's be clear, number one, they've run into this problem where the folks they're appointing, their courts are finding legal issues with the appointments. So, the folks bringing the cases have some legal infirmities.
If you can't get -- and this is just law 101. If you can't successfully get a case past a grand jury, you're sure as hell not going to get a conviction down the road. The standard for indicting a case is very low. It's probable cause. More likely than not that the thing happened. And then convicting at trial is reasonable doubt. That's really hard to get. So, they're just not -- at a certain point you got to take the l and accept that, yes, we don't like Joe Biden, we don't like the folks that came before, we don't like, quote/unquote, lawfare, but this is not the case. It's not going to happen.
CORNISH: Let me ask you about the Comey case then, because that legal team, of course, I mean he's a lawyer, being very aggressive, according to the reporter here at CNN, there's already a lawsuit from Comey's friend and a former lawyer that kind of disrupts these plans to re-indict him. And it says, "the evidence that the DOJ gathered from collecting Richman's online accounts, hard drives, et cetera, was becoming a serious issue in a criminal case against Comey that was dismissed."
So, you basically have someone saying, hey, you took all my stuff because you were going to prosecute Comey. That looks like a mess. I want to sue you.
WILLIAMS: Yes, that's a tough case to win.
CORNISH: Yes.
WILLIAMS: Prosecutors and investigators have really broad latitude when it comes to gathering evidence (INAUDIBLE).
CORNISH: Right. Those senators are upset about that right now, right?
WILLIAMS: Yes. Yes.
CORNISH: They were upset that Jack Smith took their phone records.
WILLIAMS: Literally knocking down your door. Sometimes, you know, law enforcement can knock down the door of the wrong house and get away with it if they had a reasonable suspicion for doing it in the first place. So, this is -- those are kind of tough to win. But, hey, it's the law. Anything can happen.
CORNISH: OK, speaking of which, we want to talk about some other cases that people are really talking about.
So, now it's time to lawyer up.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
CORNISH: That's when, take a turn, you ready?
WILLIAMS: (INAUDIBLE).
CORNISH: OK, Luigi Mangione. We have been saying that for a year now. Obviously, he's a household name.
[06:55:02]
And then despite him being accused of murder, some of the attention on him has been, like, positive, right? You've got legal experts saying that, hey, what does that mean for jury selection?
WILLIAMS: Right.
CORNISH: You've had to do a jury selection. This guy is famous. How does that change things?
WILLIAMS: It just -- it will take longer to do it. But you can always find 12 people who can sit in judgment of a case.
The issue is not whether people have any knowledge about the defendant, or even have opinions about the defendant. It's really whether they can set aside what they believe, right?
And so, yes, it's high profile. Yes, there are a lot of people that care about it. But at the end of the day, you know, look, I picked a jury for four or five months once. You just take a long time doing it. And I'm confident they can.
CORNISH: OK. One more. I want to talk about Johnny Cash. His estate is suing Coca-Cola.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
CORNISH: And this is a really interesting case because basically they're saying that he -- that they exploited the likeness by hiring a sound alike to sing in a Coca-Cola commercial.
WILLAIMS: But not telling people that the sound alike was Johnny Cash or intended to impersonate Johnny Cash.
CORNISH: All right, hold on, we're going to play it just in case people want to compare.
WILLIAMS: Yes, it's remarkable.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE (singing): I stand alone with fire inside (ph). This heart (INAUDIBLE), I won't subside.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Yes, I mean, it's Johnny Cash adjacent. I don't think it's --
WILLIAMS: It's Johnny Cash -- it's Johnny Cash curious. But the point is --
CORNISH: Yes. But, no, here's the thing.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
CORNISH: A few years ago the band, I think it was Beach House, also sued over something like this where they were like, you just -- we said no to using the song, and then you just went out and hired someone to do one that sounds like us.
WILLIAMS: Here's Coca-Cola's argument. Where does it say that that's Johnny Cash? They don't.
Now, the interesting thing is, he's a professional Johnny Cash impersonator. And look, you hear that, that sounds a hell of a lot like -- right?
CORNISH: (INAUDIBLE) like twist.
KING: This is his big break.
WILLIAMS: I know. Literally, this is -- this is his big break.
CORNISH: Yes, exactly.
WILLIAMS: Now, the fascinating thing about the story, Audie, is that this is the most A.I. story that's not about A.I. The law that they're suing under was crafted to minimize or eliminate A.I. making replications of people's voices and showing up in things like ads so that people could sue over fake facsimiles of their voice.
CORNISH: Yes. WILLIAMS: This is the other side of that. What happens when you have someone that sounds a lot like you and, come on, that's Johnny Cash --
CORNISH: Yes.
WILLIAMS: But wasn't presented as such. And so that's the lawsuit. They might have something there.
CORNISH: OK, so now we got to talk group chats because it's the end of the week. We've all been gossiping. I mean, doing serious journalism in our phones.
Lulu, can I start with you?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: My group chat is extremely serious and very concerning, which is something that has obsessed my family group chat, which is Spotify's sort of report that they give you at the end of the year to know what you have listened to.
CORNISH: This is your actual Spotify wrapped?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: It's awful.
WILLIAMS: Oh, my God.
CORNISH: Proper for golden. No, no that's amazing.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: No. Yes, but, I mean --
CORNISH: Benson Boone, we're going to have a talk.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: OK. But listen, this isn't mine is my point. If you look at the top there, le poisson steve (ph), is my 12-year-old daughter's favorite song.
CORNISH: Oh.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: And so this is not a reflection of me and my taste. And so, unfortunately, we have something that felt to me inauthentic to my soul.
CORNISH: Yes, justice for Lulu's algorithm in the group chat.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes, justice for Lulu's algorithm.
So, anyway, this is all for parents. This is all bumpkus is what I'm saying.
CORNISH: Oh, bumpkus.
Rob Bluey.
BLUEY: It's -- it's a -- Audie, it's a big weekend in college football. The number one and number two teams, Ohio State and Indiana, face off both undefeated. So, a lot at stake there. And then in the FCS, new FCS coach of the year Kevin Cahill and the
Lehigh Mountain Hawks take on Villanova in that championship bracket. So, a lot to watch this weekend.
CORNISH: I appreciate this because the only college football story I've ever followed is Bill Belichick, basically. It's like the only thing I'm paying attention to. I'm like, what is happening in his life?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: That's a different kind of story. That's a different kind of story.
CORNISH: OK.
WILLIAMS: But the other football has big news today. Soccer. The World Cup draw is today.
CORNISH: Heard of it.
WILLIAMS: Heard of it. Now, the fascinating thing is that, number one, it's the biggest sport in the world and the biggest youth sport in the United States. But America, which is hosting it, can't manage to field anything other than kind of a mediocre team. Oh, pardon, men's team.
CORNISH: Whoa. Whoa.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Oh. Oh.
WILLIAMS: It's true. But it's true. It's --
CORNISH: Put that chyron -- put that chyron under Elliot.
WILLIAMS: Boo if you want. You know I'm right. Because it's like, you know, the USA doesn't fill -- doesn't field a -- sort of a global team like Argentina, France or whatever.
CORNISH: Yes, I don't know him. OK.
WILLIAMS: And so, one, there, the Kennedy Center, Donald Trump will be there. It's just a lot of different threads.
CORNISH: It's going to be a whole thing.
WILLIAMS: It's just really interesting. Watch it.
CORNISH: Noel, last word to you.
KING: On "Today, Explained" we're doing an episode about people who fall in love with A.I. I interviewed the people and I interviewed the A.I.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Ooh.
KING: I went in thinking it was nuts. You guys, I totally get it.
CORNISH: It's not. KING: I totally get it.
CORNISH: I -- so, I have interviewed someone who is in love with her A.I., but she was not able to put him on the phone. So, I'm curious.
KING: Oh, they are very compelling.
CORNISH: Really?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Oh, really?
KING: Yes. I'll send you guys the link.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: What did they tell you?
WILLIAMS: My A.I. --
KING: They just speak so beautifully.
CORNISH: OK.
WILLIAMS: My A.I. girlfriend lives in Canada.
CORNISH: That's -- OK.
[07:00:00]
WILLIAMS: I have one.
CORNISH: Guys, thank you for this very serious group chat. Thank you for waking up with us. We know you have many choices of where you can spend your time, and I am glad you're here with us. I'm Audie Cornish, and the headlines are next.
