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Person of Interested in Brown University Shooting Released from Custody; Dionne Taylor is Interviewed about Attack in Australia; Both Parties Announcing Congressional Departures; Rob Reiner Dead at Age 78. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired December 15, 2025 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:33:21]
AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome, everyone. I'm Audie Cornish. Thank you for joining me on CNN THIS MORNING.
It's half past the hour and we're going to get right to our top story.
We continue to follow the breaking news out of Rhode Island, where a person of interest in the Brown University shooting has been released from custody. A shooting which killed two students and injured nine others. At this hour, police are still looking for the suspect in this surveillance video. They were dressed in all black as they left the scene of the shooting. Police had a person of interest in custody Sunday morning, but by late last night the evidence started to, quote, "point in another direction," according to investigators. After the release, Brown University emailed students to tell them there is no direct threat to campus as the search for the suspect continues.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER NERONHA, RHODE ISLAND ATTORNEY GENERAL As we develop leads and reach -- and reach -- and move towards justice in this case. But this could happen very quickly. But it could take some time. And so I'm going to ask the public to be patient with us as we continue to work through the facts in this case.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Joining me now, Juliette Kayyem, CNN national security analyst and former assistant secretary at the Department of Homeland Security.
Juliette, I'm glad you're here because I understand you were actually reporting last night. You were ready to talk about this investigation when this shift happened, when this press conference happened. Can you talk about what you've learned since about this person of interest, release, kind of what happened?
JULIETTE KAYYEM, CNN SENIOR NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: Right. So, it was a strange day yesterday for those of us who were covering it all weekend, to the extent that throughout the day they were very insistent that it was just a person of interest, the person that they had taken into custody overnight, Saturday night, from the hotel.
[06:35:12]
That then becomes clear by the end of the day that, before midnight, they basically say -- yes, they say that the trail is leading elsewhere, meaning, in investigations speak that means we don't have the right guy basically and they release him. Over the course of the day, everyone had been investigating who it could have been.
You know, we have this notion that we're -- that this is now a manhunt. I don't know if it's even fair to call it that. The -- one of the weirdest things about this investigation right now is, despite the fact Brown University has like a video camera basically everywhere per couple -- like per about a dozen students, they have a video camera, there is not a single shot of him, of the -- of the face of who they're looking for. Not even from the room that he was shooting in. So, unless there's something we don't know, they don't have a visual. So, they -- so, at this stage, we don't even know the race potentially of who this person is, thereby being able to narrow it down.
It's a -- it's a, you know, it's bad for the community. It's bad for safety-ness (ph).
CORNISH: Yes.
KAYYEM: It's bad for people's confidence in this investigation.
CORNISH: They were in the middle of finals for the students. That's canceled. There's no lockdowns. But help me make sense of this. They're basically saying there's a murderer at large --
KAYYEM: Yes.
CORNISH: But also it's -- we're not locking anything down. Move about your day.
KAYYEM: Yes. It's a hard decision to make. I agree with it. You know, we deal with this a lot in terrorism cases and in mass shootings, if they don't have the person, which is that balance between, you can't close a city down until you find the guy because he may not even be here, and protecting the communities. What Rhode Island had to do, of course, with the officials that you heard from last night is say, we will have more security around Providence, around Brown. There's no specific threats.
It -- as you suggested, it, you know, if you -- if you pierce it, it doesn't make a lot of sense. But the balance between having to move forward and the investigation, you're just basically -- you can't lock down a city indefinitely. We saw that in Boston during the Boston Marathon. We saw it during -- in European cities after terror attacks.
I will say, that press conference, and it's just worth noting, was clearly an -- I think it's -- the only way to say it, it was a sort of anti-FBI press conference. The local officials were clear that it was FBI that had -- that had basically traced the phone pings to this hotel. The FBI was not present, and they -- the officials were explicit that it -- that that piece of the investigation that led them to this person of interest was under the FBI's investigation.
I've never seen anything like that before where you had no FBI official at the press conference. And I think what they need to do is regroup today, unity of effort, and focus on getting this person, even if they're not a threat. Of course they are -- they're a murderer of students.
CORNISH: Yes. That is an interesting split. It'll be interesting if we hear from the FBI specifically today as a result, especially given the sort of background context of reporting about displeasure there with the leadership, et cetera.
Juliette, I know you have a family connection to Brown.
KAYYEM: Yes.
CORNISH: You're up in New England. What's concerning you? What are you thinking about in this moment where something's happening close to home?
KAYYEM: Yes.
CORNISH: I mean, I was -- I was saying to you before the break, I mean it was sort of an unrelenting weekend for people like me who have to cover things like this. I am in Rhode Island now. We spent a lot of time here. It's a very small community. And on a personal level, my daughter is an alumni.
I was at Brown yesterday for CNN. You know, you're sort of -- I was -- last time I was there was at her graduation last year. You get a sense of sort of how disruptive this is for community, but all -- for the community, but also how many, you know, how many people are impacted by something like this in terms of, you know, family members, friends, people around the world for a university like Brown. And I felt it. I felt it too.
You know, I try to keep a straight face on CNN, but you get mad about guns and violence and what our kids are going through. I have three kids who, you know, were generation lockdown. I mean they went through high school and junior high going through lockdowns. And then, you know, they're in university and it's the same. So, I hope, you know, as a mother and as an analyst for you that that we can start to get this under control.
[06:40:03]
CORNISH: OK. That's Juliette Kayyem. She'll be reporting throughout the day.
Thank you.
KAYYEM: Thank you.
CORNISH: And in Australia, memorials pouring in for the lives lost at the Hanukkah celebration in Sydney, where at least 15 people are now dead. From London and Berlin to Paris, people are remembering the lives cut short while marking the first night of Hanukkah.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're here today to pay our respects, but also to light the menorah and show that we will not be cowed by terror. We are not afraid. We stand tall. We stand prouder every time this happens. It makes us more Jewish.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: At least one of the victims was a Holocaust survivor who died shielding his wife. The shooting brings renewed attention, not only to anti-Semitic incidents in Australia, but around the world.
Joining me now, Dionne Taylor, communications manager for the Australia, Israel and Jewish Affairs Council, who actually lives a short way from Bondi Beach.
Thank you for joining us this morning.
DIONNE TAYLOR, COMMUNICATIONS MANAGER, AUSTRALIA ISRAEL JEWISH AFFAIRS COUNCIL: Thank you for having me on your program.
CORNISH: People may not realize, this is a massive celebration. It draws people from around the world. Can you talk about the people you knew who were affected and how things are feeling in the community today?
TAYLOR: Yes. I'll just first explain for your audience the temperature at Bondi Beach on a Sunday afternoon. It's an iconic tourist destination, and it is buzzing with people. And last night when we had the Hanukkah celebration, there were more people there because of the celebration. Thousands were there to celebrate the lighting of the first candle. And there was a bar mitzvah in close vicinity. And everyone was just full of joy and excitement of what has been a really hard two years of anti-Semitic attack month after month.
And when this unfolded, people went into panic. And we are now hearing the most tragic stories. As you mentioned, a Holocaust survivor has died. A number of rabbis. A ten-year-old little girl passed away today. It's just absolutely heartbreaking.
CORNISH: One of the things we were noting as we were looking into the research about anti-Semitic incidents happening around the globe, obviously there was the Manchester Yom Kippur rampage, and now this. But it was noted that there have been more incidents of anti-Semitism in Australia in 2024, up from 2023. And in -- researchers from Tel Aviv University noted that it was Australia and Italy where you saw this rise last year.
Can you talk about that in particular, what you think is distinctive about Australia?
TAYLOR: Well, I can't talk to anything Italy related, but certainly in Australia. And the turning point was on October 9, 2023, when there were protests at the Sydney Opera House, which tonight, by the way, is lit up with the Hanukkah (ph). It is beautiful on the Opera House sails. And we feel the solidarity from our premier, Chris Minns.
That night, on October 9, 2023, where people were chanting "gas the Jews," we, as a community, were warned to not leave our homes and we feared for our safety. And what happened after that went from graffiti, hate speech, public marches, physical violence, arson attacks on schools, synagogues, places of worship, homes, cars, restaurants, Jewish businesses, and now murder.
CORNISH: Yes.
TAYLOR: So, the numbers have been increasing. And we are not surprised by last night's attack. We are shocked, but we are not surprised. Every attack that has happened up until last night was the warning sign that last night was inevitable.
CORNISH: The prime minister, Albanese, has been responding to some of this criticism. I want to play for you what he said when people asked him about the issue of anti-Semitism
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ANTHONY ALBANESE, AUSTRALIAN PRIME MINISTER: We've done the following. We're criminalize hate speech, advocating violence. We've criminalized doxing under privacy and other legislation amendment bill. And we have a landmark ban on the Nazi salute and hate symbols with penalties of imprisonment and/or a fine of up to $16,000.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Dionne, can you talk about his reaction, what he said he's done. Because even in the U.S. it's not hate speech as in (ph) criminalized. And it's a little bit like the gun ban in Australia. The laws are already stricter there.
TAYLOR: Yes, although they're not being enforced. Our government has been particularly weak in enforcing any of the laws that they have. And the prime minister has received the special envoy to combatting anti-Semitism's recommendations. And he received that numerous months ago as a recommendation.
[06:45:00]
And he took it and considered it and has not enacted it.
And the Jewish community, and some media, have -- particularly Sky News Australia, have been calling out the government's weak leadership and basically warning them that not what -- what happened last night was inevitable.
CORNISH: Dionne Taylor, thank you so much for speaking with us.
TAYLOR: Thank you.
CORNISH: And if you missed any of that conversation, if you want to catch up with some of the news today, please know we're a podcast. You can scan this QR code to find it and share it. CNN THIS MORNING is available anywhere you get your podcasts.
And next on CNN THIS MORNING, former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi on her farewell tour.
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REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): It's not a glass ceiling, it's a marble ceiling.
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CORNISH: She talks legacy and whether she thinks another woman could fill her shoes.
The group chat, they're here. We're going to talk about it with their thoughts.
Stay with us.
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[06:50:19]
CORNISH: Prominent Republicans and Democrats are announcing their departure from Congress. This is less than a year out from the critical midterm elections.
So, among those leaving, former Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi. She's gone from fighting toe to toe with the president to now leaving Congress at the height of his power.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): I have, shall we say, no power right now, nor would I, less then I'm not in Congress, but that doesn't mean I'm without influence. And there are many people outside the Congress, including -- I will be one in a year, who can be making the fight. And I have no regrets about that.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Joining me now in the group chat, Susan Page, Washington bureau chief of "USA Today," Isaac Dovere, CNN senior reporter, and Seung Min Kim, CNN political analyst and White House reporter for the "Associated Press."
We're going to start with you, Susan, because this was your interview that we have here with a picture of her. In 20 terms, that's a lot of time serving, right? And I feel like she lives rent free in the head of Republicans.
SUSAN PAGE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "USA TODAY": Yes.
CORNISH: There's a constant dialogue of, well, Pelosi did it, or under Pelosi this happened. PAGE: And she said, you know, she told me, I had real power as speaker, but you don't have power as speaker if you give it away. If you're under the thumb of the president. And that's what she has said has happened to Mike Johnson. So, she has some contempt for how Congress is working, or not working now, not getting big things done.
CORNISH: And she's not the only one, right? I mean haven't we been hearing Republicans, certainly Republican women --
SEUNG MIN KIM, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Right.
CORNISH: Criticizing Speaker Johnson's leadership? But maybe you guys can tease out for me how his reign is being seen.
KIM: Right. I'm going to get a little bit nerdy here with you, Audie, when we talk about discharge petitions and this procedure in Congress to kind of get around the leadership. But the fact that they have been successful or looks like they'll be successful, obviously, with the Jeffrey Epstein files, basically means that the House leadership has lost control.
CORNISH: Yes.
KIM: Because these are rank and file members going over your leadership, going over the desires of what Mike Johnson and his team wants to work the will of the House. And, look --
CORNISH: Yes, and saying, we'll get our own 218 votes.
KIM: Right. And the fact that --
CORNISH: We won't wait for you to give us permission.
KIM: Right. And the fact that Marjorie Taylor Greene is saying, I'm going to sign all of them, even if I don't agree with the bill. I mean that's a bad sign for Mike Johnson.
CORNISH: When the margins are so small.
KIM: Exactly.
CORNISH: Why would people leave when they have power? I've been thinking about this over and over again. You're the party in power. You're supposed to be stoked. You've got gavels.
EDWARD-ISAAC DOVERE, CNN SENIOR REPORTER: Because they don't have power.
CORNISH: OK.
DOVERE: That's the reason why. There was a point during the shutdown when Congress hadn't been around doing its job for weeks. And Mike Johnson said, actually, members of Congress are telling him that they're doing some of the most meaningful work of their careers. Talk to any member of the House, Republican or Democrat basically at this point, they do not feel like they've been doing meaningful work for a long time. A lot of them, and certainly in the Republican majority, had been OK with completely subjugating themselves to whatever Donald Trump wanted. But --
CORNISH: Yes. And just while you're talking --
DOVERE: Yes.
CORNISH: I want to show people the 24 people, at least Republicans who have announced plans to leave Congress or retire. Compare that to just 20 Democrats. Just to give people a sense of, like, you're heading into midterm with a lot of shift.
DOVERE: And also we're expecting there will be more of the Republican retirements.
KIIM: Right.
CORNISH: Oh, really?
DOVERE: That this is going to go longer. It seems like. We'll see.
But this is because there's a lot of frustration and a lot of feeling like, what is the point of this. For the Democrats, obviously, they feel pretty good about their chances next year. And there is a feeling of, well, sign up for another term, maybe you'll be a committee chair or something like that. But this is really a strange moment for Congress where you just don't see it acting in the way that it has ever acted in recent memory.
CORNISH: But that doesn't mean there's been cracks in Trump's control or power.
DOVERE: Right.
CORNISH: Even as you hear people being louder.
I was noticing in this interview "The New York Times" did, one of our group chatters, Lulu Garcia-Navarro did it, with senators, past and present, who had left. And I think Jeff Flake was in it, a couple others, and Manchin. And one of the reasons they talked about is like why people aren't standing up to Trump in the Senate. Why they aren't saying, well, look over there. No one seems to think this is the way to go.
PAGE: You know where people -- Republicans are standing up to President Trump? Indiana.
KIM: Right.
PAGE: The Indiana state senate --
CORNISH: Right.
PAGE: Is more willing to stand up to President Trump than the U.S. Senate. And that tells you a lot about where Washington is right now. Not a surprise that Republicans, in particular, Democrats, too, but Republicans in particular interested in retiring. It is no fun to serve in this Congress when there is so little prospect of having a real debate --
CORNISH: Yes.
PAGE: And actually trying to address problems that Americans have.
[06:55:04]
CORNISH: Which means some of them are running for, let's say, Senate.
KIM: Right.
CORNISH: I think is it Wesley Hunt in Texas who wants to run against John Cornyn? I don't think they want him to as a fellow Republican.
KIM: Right. Yes.
CORNISH: He's one of, I think, at least two black Republicans who are leaving to run for higher office. So, people are looking to governor seats, senate seats, literally anything else than being in the House.
KIM: Right, because they feel that not only do they not effectively have power right now, but they feel like they're going to lose power. The reason why, Isaac said earlier, that we might be see -- we will likely see more retirements is because this is a time where, you know, members sit down with their families over the holidays, really take that time to assess what their life would be like in the next year if they did run for re-election and just say, I don't want to do this anymore.
CORNISH: Yes.
KIM: This is not fun. I'm not doing public service. So, yes, definitely where --
CORNISH: And Taylor Greene's been this Cassandra, Pelosi doubled down saying, you're going to lose. You guys might lose the midterms for real.
KIM: Yes.
PAGE: Pelosi said they're definitely going to win control of the House.
CORNISH: That Democrats will definitely win, yes.
PAGE: The Democrats are going to win. And she also said, interestingly, do not try to impeach President Trump when you win, because that's something some of the most progressive forces in the House are interested in doing. She said --
CORNISH: Almost reflexively, yes.
PAGE: Yes. She says that would be a mistake. Instead, try to slow down what he is doing in the country. CORNISH: All right, right now I want to talk to you guys about one
story today, which is the death of Rob Reiner. And I just want to remember him for a moment because, honestly, it's easier to talk about what he wasn't in --
KIM: Right.
CORNISH: Or movies he didn't make than the ones he did. And I wanted to give us kind of an opportunity to remember this person and any favorite projects you have.
For me, I was thinking about the fact that he appeared in the most recent season of "The Bear" mentoring someone.
KIM: Oh, yes.
CORNISH: The reason why I mention this is because at the time I was like, who is that kind-faced man? Like I didn't connect on who it was. And the voice and the face and even being a person dispensing wisdom aligned with my perception of him in my head. And so that's sort of my thing I'll remember.
Susan.
PAGE: Look how long a career he's had.
CORNISH: Yes.
PAGE: Because you're saying something that's him now. I'm going to mention something he did, I think it was in 1989, "When Harry Met Sally."
CORNISH: Yes.
PAGE: It was, like, instantly iconic. And there are scenes in that movie that you just say some phrase like, "I'll have what she's having." Everyone in America knows what you're talking about.
CORNISH: Yes. We learned today that he changed the ending as a result of kind of input from the woman who had become his wife.
DOVERE: Yes, look, I had the opportunity to sit down and interview him in 2018. We met in his apartment in Manhattan. He was really the kind of presence that came across on screen as a very nice guy. He was talking about his political involvement then. And --
CORNISH: That's amazing. Can you talk about that?
DOVERE: Yes.
CORNISH: What was -- what were the roots of his political --
DOVERE: Well, I mean, it goes back -- his father was politically attuned to and -- but he, at one point, was thinking about running for governor of California, running for mayor of Los Angeles. He was very politically active. A big donor. One of the stories, not from that interview, but last year the night
of the debate between Biden and Trump, that famous debate, there was a watch party at his house. And I reported this at the time that Doug Emhoff was there, Kamala Harris' husband.
CORNISH: Yes.
DOVERE: And they were -- at one moment, Reiner was screaming at him behind a closed door saying, you've given us up to fascism, or -- you've screwed the country.
CORNISH: Yes.
DOVERE: These sorts of things. That's not what we talked about in 2018. Then we were talking about what he was doing on --
CORNISH: But that's in line with some of his recent comments.
DOVERE: For sure. For sure.
CORNISH: He's talked about autocracy. He and his wife produced a documentary on Christian nationalism.
DOVERE: Yes. Yes.
CORNISH: And we've heard everyone from Obama to Kamala Harris offer their condolences today.
KIM: Right. It just shows you how big of a figure both in -- both in culture and in politics that he was. I mean it's almost overwhelming to look at the list of projects that he was involved in. And, you know, like, I'm looking forward to seeing "Princess Bride" with my daughter when she's a few years older.
CORNISH: No, that's a good thing.
DOVERE: And when she's a few years older than that, "This is Spinal Tap."
CORNISH: Yes. No.
KIM: Yes, exactly. Exactly.
CORNISH: No, "Stand by Me." "Stand by Me" was like, you know, one of those very sort of moving, genre-bending kind of images, pictures.
PAGE: You know what was great. I -- also, he loved entertainment, obviously. It was a big success. He loved politics. He brought the same sense of joy to politics that he brought to entertainment. And it's a sense of fun.
CORNISH: Instead of cynicism.
PAGE: Right. It's refreshing. It's different from what we have today in (INAUDIBLE). DOVERE: And he was thoughtful about it. And one of the things we
talked about in that interview is that, you remember there's -- there was this whole thing about whether Archie Bunker would have been a Trump supporter.
CORNISH: Yes. Yes.
KIM: Yes.
DOVERE: And this was 2018. So, a lot has happened since. But he said, no, at that point he thought Archie Bunker would still be with Trump and, you know, thoughtful about where it was in culture and not being, like, oh, another "All in the Family" (INAUDIBLE), right?
CORNISH: Yes.
DOVERE: He was very engaged in that.
CORNISH: But fascinating because to this day "All in the Family" people sort of debate what the politics are that they're looking at.
DOVERE: Right.
CORNISH: And at the time it was about a clash.
DOVERE: Yes.
CORNISH: And Reiner still embarrassed the clash.
DOVERE: Yes.
CORNISH: Still found a way to connect with people across that clash. And I did see some actors today from other parts of the political spectrum saying, you know, I didn't always agree with him --
DOVERE: Yes.
CORNISH: But he was an agreeable person, right?
KIM: Right.
CORNISH: And I think that's like a model that we could use today.
[07:00:02]
I want to thank you guys for being with me on, you know, a pretty difficult Monday morning. I look forward to seeing your reporting this week.
I want to thank you for waking up with us. I know there's a lot of places where you can spend your time, and I'm glad you're here with us.
I'm Audie Cornish, and the headlines are next.
