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CNN This Morning
NTSB to Investigate Biffle Crash; Ed Davis is Interviewed about the Brown University Shooting; Deadline for Epstein Files. Aired 6:30- 7a ET
Aired December 19, 2025 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[06:30:00]
AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Mark Zuckerberg, Jeff Bezos at "The Post," and Dr. Patrick Soon-Shiong at "The L.A. Times."
SARA FISCHER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA ANALYST: Yes, but in this particular instance, everybody has incentive to make sure that this app does not lost market value and that it continues to be lucrative. And the challenge with messing with the algorithm in a way that the users might pick up, might not feel comfortable, is that you're going to potentially decrease engagement. Nobody wants that.
CORNISH: Which we saw with X.
FISCHER: Yes.
CORNISH: Yes.
FISCHER: Like ByteDance for -- just so everyone is aware, 30 percent of this app, the U.S. app, is going to be owned by existing ByteDance investors, which are American funds.
CORNISH: Yes.
FISCHER: Most of them. And then 20 percent will be owned by ByteDance itself. And they're getting paid. So, they don't want this to go bad.
CORNISH: OK, let me leave it there because we don't know how it's going to go, OK. Though I understand the business imperative.
Noel, Sara, thanks so much.
Coming up on CNN, we're going to be talking about that small plane that went down. It killed everyone on board. What may have played a role in the crash.
Plus, marijuana, weed, pot, whatever you're going to call it, the drug's about to be reclassified.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:35:49]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHIEF OSCAR PEREZ, PROVIDENCE POLICE: (INAUDIBLE). As you know, this developed extremely quickly.
It's going to be difficult to know much about an individual when you don't know their identity and their name. But we do now, obviously. And so we'll do that job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: The suspect in the mass shooting at Brown University found dead after a dramatic break in the case. Police say a key witness told police he saw a suspicious person inside a building on campus and followed him and was able to describe the suspect's car to them. So. this morning, officials still trying to figure out a motive.
Good morning, everybody. I'm Audie Cornish. I want to thank you for joining me here.
It's now half past the hour. And here's what's happening right now.
The Trump administration now hitting pause on a diversity visa program after that shooting at Brown University. Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem says the suspected shooter used the program to obtain a green card back in 2017, during the first Trump administration.
Congressional Republicans sending lawmakers home for the holidays without voting to extend Obamacare subsidies. That means tens of millions of Americans will likely see their health care premiums double on New Year's Day. The GOP is divided, with some members insisting Congress cannot let the subsidies expire without providing an alternative plan.
And the president signs an executive order to ease restrictions on marijuana. The order will reclassify the drug from a schedule one to a schedule three, which means that there can be more research about medical use. And the order does not legally federalize marijuana use.
And this morning, the NTSB set to provide an update on a deadly plane crash in North Carolina. Seven people were killed. Among them, retired Nascar driver Greg Biffle. The private plane went down just after takeoff yesterday morning. Surveillance footage shows the moment that it went up in flames. It's unclear what caused the crash, but poor weather conditions were reported that morning. Biffle, his wife and two children all died in the crash.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He just had the biggest -- the heart -- a heart of gold.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And we didn't know him, you know, per se, but just seeing the family, hearing about it, it -- it hurts.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Joining me now, Mary Schiavo, former inspector general for the Department of Transportation.
Mary, this is a really striking case, and I understand that the NTSB is sending half a dozen sort of work to investigate it. What are the things that they're going to be looking for?
MARY SCHIAVO, CNN TRANSPORTATION ANALYST: Well, the NTSB is sending a pretty big team because there are a lot of these planes out here and, obviously, there's a lot to be learned from this one. The teams are going to be looking at the maintenance of this aircraft.
It was a 1981 plane. It had had some updates. Probably had the engines changed out in about 1999 or thereabouts. Overhauls of the engines. Anything maintenance related to this plane. Any modifications. Its last airworthiness was just this year, its last checkup. So, it looks fine. But the NTSB will dig deeply into the maintenance records and the maintenance record of the plane.
They'll be looking at the piloting. The reports are there are two pilots on board. Mr. Biffle also had a pilot's license. So, they'll be looking at the decisions they made.
And weather. Whether weather had anything to do with it. It was bad weather, about 400 -- there were 400 foot clouds and 1,000 foot ceiling. And then the piloting and the flying. This plane never really got above 2,000 feet. This high elevation airport. And as it was coming in on its emergency landing, it was very, very low. So, we'll be looking at that.
And then they'll check the fuel. Literally, the NTSB checks everything it can get.
CORNISH: Can you come back to the weather for a moment? I feel a little silly asking that. But at the time, I think that, beyond rain, there was a helicopter nearby that had to land, right, due to poor weather. There was the cloud layers. It seemed like there were some elements there that made it a pretty rough day for flying.
[06:40:02]
SCHIAVO: That's right. A rough day for flying. As long as you have the minimums and the minimums, the weather, the crosswinds, et cetera, can all be different for each plane. Every plane has its limits. But because there was a report that they had engine problems, the weather probably doesn't have anything to do with it. And the NTSB will, of course, be checking if there was icing. This plane has anti-ice systems. But they will check to see if there's any possibility that the weather affected the engines, affected the rate of climb, affected the airspeed. The airspeed wasn't steady either. The altitude fluctuated. The airspeed fluctuated.
So, they'll be looking at the weather. There's always a chance it did impact it. But right now it does not look like it.
CORNISH: Mary Schiavo, thanks so much. We'll be checking with you today. And if you missed any part of that conversation, any part of the show,
and you want to share it, know that we are a podcast. Just scan the QR code right now to find it because CNN THIS MORNING is available anywhere you get your podcasts.
Next on CNN, is there a connection between the mass shooting at Brown and the homicide at MIT? Earlier this week investigators said no. Now new evidence has them rethinking that.
Plus, it's deadline day. Will the Epstein files be released?
And it's also Friday, so we're going to lawyer up after the break.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:45:28]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LEAH FOLEY, U.S. ATTORNEY FOR THE DISTRICT OF MASSACHUSETTS: There was financial investigations that were going on in the background that linked him, not only to that car, but also to the hotels that he had rented and the cars -- the car that he had used to not only drive to Rhode Island, but then back to Boston.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: OK. We are learning more about how the suspected gunman in the shooting at Brown University also became the lead suspect in the murder of a professor at MIT that happened just a few days later. Police say after opening fire on students at Brown, Claudio Neves Valente then drove back to Boston and changed the license plates on his rental car. He then entered the home of an MIT professor and reportedly shot him Monday night. MIT identified the victim as 47- year-old Nuno Loureiro, the director of the university's Plasma Science and Fusion Center.
Now, investigators are facing a lot of tough questions about whether or not the suspect could have been found sooner.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REPORTER: If you hadn't focused on the wrong person of interest on day one, do you think the professor in Massachusetts could be alive?
PETER NARONHA, RHODE ISLAND ATTORNEY GENERAL: There was one lead that we followed. Didn't work out. There was another lead that we followed. Didn't work out. There's another lead that we followed. Didn't work out. So, that's, at least in my mind, five different leads that didn't -- that one worked out, four didn't. But you're running them all down at the same time. So, I can't -- I can't offer any comfort in that regard, but I don't believe that we would have found this person any sooner given the evidence that was available to us.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Joining me now, Ed Davis, former Boston Police Commissioner.
Good morning. Thanks for being with us.
ED DAVIS, FORMER BOSTON POLICE COMMISSIONER: Good morning, Audie.
CORNISH: Just to remind people of the timeline here. You have the shooting happening on Saturday, 24 hours later. This is how they think it rolled out. That the suspect returned to Massachusetts and changed license plates. And then you have that shooting that the reporter was asking about, before they end up -- the suspect ends up in New Hampshire.
You heard a kind of defensiveness there in that answer. Do you think more could have been understood sooner?
DAVIS: Well, it's a very difficult question. And people get defensive when people are, you know, attempting to place blame or to exploit the possible cracks in a case.
I think that the Rhode Island authorities diligently pursued the evidence that they had. And I don't think that people understand the logistics and the amount of data that needs to be pored through before you can get this case solved.
CORNISH: Yes. Which kind of brings us to the question about social media, because investigators are giving a lot of credit to this case to a key witness and a post on Reddit that provided some information about the vehicle in question. And I want to play for you what the attorney general had to say about how that went down.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
PETER NARONHA, RHODE ISLAND ATTORNEY GENERAL: Once we put the picture out, he came forward, right? But we didn't -- we didn't know who that person was. We knew about what was on Reddit, but we didn't know who that person was. That's why when we identified another person, we didn't know when that person came forward that he was the Reddit poster. He then told us he was, OK. So, all of these things kind of happened in that sequence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: You were the police commissioner during the Boston Marathon bombing. I was covering that story. And at the time, Reddit was the source of mistakes for investigators. All these years later, can you talk about the role of social media and all of this data you referenced in this case?
DAVIS: Certainly. Social media is a two-edged sword. You can get valid information from someone posting, which is what happened in Rhode Island. But so many times conspiracy theorists and other misinformation is put out there. And we saw this play out in this particular case.
I really believe that the -- that the -- the data that was found was a fairly innocuous tip. It's not something that would have jumped out at you if you were going through the reams of data that I know they're going through. So, just think about that. Every posting that was made on all the platforms needs to be reviewed to come up with this little kernel of gold that they found that helped solve the case.
CORNISH: What are you going to be listening for next out of this investigation?
DAVIS: Well, certainly the motive.
[06:50:01]
It, you know, would appear to be a fairly mundane -- tragic, but mundane situation of disaffected and unaccomplished individual, you know, trying to -- trying to lash out at people that he blames for his problems. But I think the big thing here is the video evidence that was used. These flux (ph) systems are being used to find criminals all over the country. I know they use them here in my city quite a bit. That's really the pivotal piece of information that solved this case. And people need to realize that this is a helpful situation to have those cameras out there.
CORNISH: OK. Commissioner Davis, thanks so much for speaking with us.
DAVIS: Thank you.
CORNISH: I want to turn to this.
Soon we're going to find out whether the Justice Department plans to release the Epstein files, because today is the deadline to do it. Yesterday, the latest batch of photos from Epstein's estate were released by House Democrats. Now, sources tell CNN, frustration is building inside the Justice Department as officials scramble to redact thousands of pages of evidence before they're shown to the public.
Now, Democrats appear willing to give Attorney General Pam Bondi and her team the benefit of the doubt when it comes to compliance.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Related to full and complete disclosure of the Epstein files, we do expect compliance. But if the Department of Justice does not comply with what is federal law at this point, there will be strong bipartisan pushback.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: CNN's MJ Lee spoke to a group of Epstein survivors on the eve of the deadline about their expectations for all this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MJ LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Do you trust that the DOJ is going to release everything?
(CROSS TALK)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That was my (INAUDIBLE).
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: (INAUDIBLE), right, MJ?
LEE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No. The answer -- for me, the answer is no.
This all felt way too easy to pass in one day.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: OK, CNN legal analyst and former federal prosecutor Eliot Williams joins the group chat.
I don't think any prosecutor wants to hear laughter from the potential survivors of a case in terms of their faith of the justice system.
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: No. Generally, no.
CORNISH: No. So, talk -- help me understand today. Are we expecting to for sure see something released? And if we don't, what happens if they don't comply?
WILLIAMS: See, the problem, Audie, it's hard to know what's actually being released. This concept of the Epstein files has sort of gotten into the ecosystem and --
CORNISH: Yes. Which Susie Wiles said in an article (ph), yes.
WILLIAMS: That Susie Wiles said. Right. Exactly.
So, what does that mean? Is it grand jury materials? Well, those can never be made public, or at least should not be made public because the law requires that they not be. Is it photographs? Is it files? Is it -- is it case notes, which also cannot be made public because of the records of the government? So, what exactly do they plan on releasing? And, you know, to your point about Susie Wiles, this was a mess of the executive branch's creation. The White House suggested that they were sitting on this trove of information that they were ready to release to the public, and I think people are going to be quite dissatisfied with whatever comes out.
CORNISH: Yes. Is there anything that Democrats can do, other than releasing random photographs?
WILLIAMS: That's it.
CORNISH: Really?
WILLIAMS: That's it. I mean, I think, ultimately, in a perfect universe, and we live in a horribly imperfect one, Congress would get together and decide on a bipartisan basis what they wanted to see and press the government and even withhold funding if the government was not providing them what, you know, what they found satisfying. Democrats really can use their bully pulpit and make statements publicly and issue statements and so on, but there's not a ton of power that they have by themselves.
CORNISH: Can I ask you about this?
BRADLEY DEVLIN, POLITICS EDITOR, "THE DAILY SIGNAL": Yes.
CORNISH: Because Susie Wiles said what she said, the part that's not even quiet. I was going to say quiet part out loud. She said, the loud part louder, which is that Pam Bondi made this worse by the way she talked about it publicly. But she said that the administration, and she particularly, underestimated how this would blow up on them, in that "Vanity Fair" article.
Do you -- are you -- were you surprised to see that?
DEVLIN: I don't think anyone's surprised to see that. I mean this is an issue that really mattered -- motivated the conservative base. One thing that I think is going to happen after this --
CORNISH: But why would they underestimate it then?
DEVLIN: I think they underestimated just how badly the American people wanted answers, because people who have been in the know, know that these Epstein files, quote/unquote, have been out there in the public for a really long time. They just haven't been centralized in a database, collected, and like given the -- give the American people the top lines. That's what the Oversight Committee has been working on. But I don't think this is going to satisfy anyone, because I think a lot of what we need is probably classified. And then you look at, OK, what does a declassification effort look like? I think it would be a politically savvy move by the Democrats to keep this in the news and say, hey, Trump's been talking about transparency for MLK, RFK, all these different assassinations.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
DEVLIN: We should -- we should be -- we should be taking back that mantle of transparency.
CORNISH: Yes.
WILLIAMS: I would just say, if two -- or however long ago the president or whomever else had said there are records of the president interacting with a notorious individual. However, he engaged in nothing -- nothing wrong.
[06:55:02]
You might see information of how they're tied together. But at the end of the day, business as usual. That might have made things not the mess.
LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: Can I ask --
CORNISH: OK.
WILLIAMS: Sorry. Go ahead. CORNISH: Yes.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I think the big problem with all of this is going to be, what is the purpose? Is it that we all understand what happened? Is it helping the victims process? Or is it getting justice? And is this the process to actually get justice? And from whom?
CORNISH: Yes. That's been a questions for Democrats, frankly.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Already we're seeing -- we're already seeing these photos being released.
CORNISH: Yes.
GARCIA-NAVARR): And it's sort of like the internet is deciding who's guilty and who is not guilty. And so, I guess we should all ask ourselves, as people who are invested in this, which we all are, what do we want out of this process?
DEVLIN: Right. And is that justice political? Is it something that the political institutions should take care of, i.e. the American people in their capacity as voters should be acting on the information when its organized and presented to them in an accessible way that gives real answers.
CORNISH: OK, I want to ask you one more question, because we usually lawyer up when you're here on Fridays.
WILLIAMS: That's the rumor. Right. Right.
CORNISH: Which is, you have been talking about this Elon Musk lawsuit.
WILLIAMS: Yes. Yes.
CORNISH: Basically he wants to sue a social media startup called Bluebird --
WILLIAMS: Yes.
CORNISH: Over Twitter.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
CORNISH: I -- he already renamed it X. So, I don't know what the problem is.
WILLIAMS: Ah-ha. There is a problem, in fact.
CORNISH: OK. Got it.
WILLIAMS: And the law, Audie, allows a trademark to be abandoned if it's clear that there's no hope of ever using it again, right?
Now, obviously, they renamed Twitter X and there's even social media of Elon Musk saying, I believe the words were, we bid adieu to the Twitter brand, and gradually all of the birds. CORNISH: Yes.
WILLIAMS: Now, Operation Bluebird claims that that was an abandonment of the term Twitter. Twitter's response, or X's response, says I didn't.
CORNISH: See.
WILLIAMS: But X's response is, no, that's silly. People still associate it -- associate the word Twitter with our brand. They associate the bird with us. And even if we don't us Twitter --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Twitter forever. I will always call it Twitter. Always, always, always.
WILLIAMS: Hash tag Twitter forever.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Forever.
CORNISH: OK. They'll call you to the witness stand. Yes.
WILLIAMS: And so, all this to say, I think Operation Bluebird, this entity, is on really bad legal footing.
CORNISH: Yes.
WILLIAMS: Just because people associate Twitter with X. It doesn't matter.
CORNISH: Although, I have to say, I am hoping in 2026 for a reset of just about all social media.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: A hundred percent.
WILLIAMS: Good luck.
CORNISH: Which this year has felt less social, less informational and less a part of my life. I said what I said.
So, I want to talk about the group chat. End of year group chats, you guys. I want to start with you, Noel.
NOEL KING, CO-HOST AND EDITORIAL DIRECTOR, "TODAY, EXPLAINED" PODCAST: Next year America celebrates 250 years of being America. And President Trump announced yesterday that in the fall 100 high school athletes, the top male, the top female from each state will be brought to the Capitol to compete --
CORNISH: Hold on. We need to play this so people can hear it. I don't want -- because the way you're about to describe it will give us pop culture vibes. Here we go.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: One young man and one young woman. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE, ACTRESS, "HUNGER GAMES": One courageous young man
and woman.
TRUMP: From each state and territory.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: For the honor of representing District 12.
TRUMP: The first ever Patriot Games.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the 74th annual Hunger Games.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KING: It's wild. I got to give it to him.
CORNISH: That's --
GARCIA-NAVARRO: That was mine too.
CORNISH: It was your group chat as well?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: My group chat, because may the odds --
CORNISH: Have you been seeing these mashups online?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Because may the odds be ever in their favor. And, yes, if he wanted to be the ruler of Panem, he's really coded that perfectly well.
WILLIAMS: Wow.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: But politically --
CORNISH: Bradley, do you volunteer?
GARCIA-NAVARRO: No, but politically -- politically --
DEVLIN: Because I'd lose.
CORNISH: I'm just saying.
DEVLIN: Thankfully, I wouldn't die in these games, but I would lose.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: But let me ask you this, do you think this is a troll in the way that we've seen this administration troll things that they want just to break through and they think it's funny, or do you think this is like a massive misstep? That's the debate that I saw sort of among politicos about this.
CORNISH: Yes, what is this for?
DEVLIN: Right. Right. Right.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: What is this for?
DEVLIN: Do they want to pick a fight with the media over this or something like that? Potentially. I mean I think it's just, they're going to try to make the pomp and circumstance as pomp and as circumstantial as possible.
CORNISH: Yes. Yes. UFC fight and all this stuff.
DEVLIN: And, I mean -- you know, yes, like this is America 250. I like it. Go big. Go home. I like it.
CORNISH: OK, volunteer your child.
All right. Who else is -- what's in your group chat?
DEVLIN: For a track meet, I'll volunteer the child.
CORNISH: I'm just saying, that was (INAUDIBLE).
DEVLIN: My group chat is full of rumors of whether or not Travis Kelce will retire. Obviously, the Chiefs have been eliminated.
GARCIA-NAVARR): That's a good one.
DEVLIN: Yes, for the NFL chat.
CORNISH: Good group.
DEVLIN: Postseason. And now everybody is wondering what Travis Kelce is going to do next year. Hopefully Patrick Mahomes heals quickly.
CORNISH: Yes.
DEVLIN: And we'd love to see that duo back on the field. But again --
CORNISH: Does your group chat blame Taylor Swift for any of this?
DEVLIN: No. No.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: I've got -- I know what he's going to do with --
DEVLIN: He's one of the best tight ends of all time. He'll be fine.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: He's going to start a podcast with his wife once he marries Taylor, and that is going to be a thing.
CORNISH: I like these predictions. End of the year predictions.
Wait, did I do your group chat?
WILLIAMS: You did not.
CORNISH: Oh, do it.
WILLIAMS: But it's cool.
CORNISH: Do it.
WILLIAMS: No, it's cool. CORNISH: No. I like you.
WILLIAMS: No, it's like -- no, no, it's fine, Audie.
CORNISH: You seem like a nice guy.
WILLLIAMS: I like you too. I like --
CORNISH: Have a mug. Yes.
WILLIAMS: No, no, I -- real quick, since we're almost out of time.
[07:00:00]
You said it earlier on the show, but I think the potential reclassification of cannabis is a big deal.
CORNISH: Oh, yes.
WILLIAMS: And in prosecutor circles, people -- we actually text about it, only because, what does this mean? Think about, right now, under the law, cannabis is treated the same way heroin is.
CORNISH: Yes.
WILLIAMS: With, quote/unquote, no known medical use, which means that research can't be done on it and there are tax implications to it. That's really a big deal if it ultimately goes through the (INAUDIBLE).
GARCIA-NAVARRO: Every time I'm on air with you, you bring up cannabis.
WILLIAMS: I know.
GARCIA-NAVARRO: All I'm saying is -- all I'm saying is, I don't know.
WILLIAMS: I know.
CORNISH: This -- oh, my God. This is a serious news program.
Thank you so much for being with us. I'm Audie Cornish, and the headlines start now.
