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Trump Says Other Countries to Make Strait Safe; Trump Lashes Out at NATO; Historic NASA Launch; Trump Frustrated by Bondi. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired April 02, 2026 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:32:37]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When this conflict is over, the Strait will open up naturally.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: President Trumps plan to fix a big part of the global oil crisis, bomb Iran and then let it be. It's going to work itself out.

Good morning, everyone. I'm Erica Hill, in for Audie Cornish on this Thursday. Thanks so much for joining us.

Thirty-two minutes past the hour here on the East Coast. Let's get you caught up on what's happening right now.

President Trump telling the nation the war with Iran is, quote, "nearing completion," saying it will last another two to three weeks. The president also said he's planning to ramp up the attacks while outlining his reasons for the initial strike on Iran, including ensuring that country does not obtain a nuclear weapon.

Republican leaders say they have a plan to end the DHS shutdown. A familiar one. It turns out it's the bipartisan bill that passed unanimously in the Senate last week. The proposal would reopen most of the agency now and then fund ICE and Border Patrol later through a party line bill. The move, though, does reportedly now have President Trump's backing. Still, though, will face some hurdles.

Democrats are suing the Trump administration over a new executive order targeting mail-in ballots, arguing it could restrict access to voting. Republicans, however, said the changes are needed to secure elections. The legal fight coming just one day after that order was announced.

The United Kingdom is holding a virtual global summit with 35 countries to date. The goal, find a way to reopen the Strait of Hormuz. France. Germany, Australia, Japan, South Korea and the UAE among the participants. The United States is not directly involved. The U.K. also announcing it will send additional troops and air defense systems to the Middle East to defend against Iranian attacks.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KEIR STARMER, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: This is not our war. We will not be drawn into the conflict. That is not in our national interest. And the most effective way we can support the cost of living in Britain is to push for de-escalation in the Middle East and a reopening of the Strait of Hormuz

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Right now, about 1,000 ships are stranded by Iran's blockade of the Strait. President Trump insists it will be up to other countries to make that Strait safe for passage once the U.S. ends its strikes.

CNN's Clare Sebastian joining us now from London.

So, Clare, President Trump has been very clear what he feels the course of action should be here, and that is that NATO allies, that the U.K. among them, should be getting involved here and should be doing more of the cleanup. Has he essentially started to push them to that point?

[06:35:02]

CLARE SEBASTIAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, certainly the answer to that, if you were to ask the British prime minister, would be, no. He has made it clear, as you heard in those comments you played just there, "this is not our war," is the refrain that keeps being repeated. He is not going to get drawn into a conflict which he sees as not in the U.K.'s national interest. And certainly that is something we hear across NATO allies. They were not consulted about this. They did not ask for this.

But I think this summit today, this virtual summit that the British foreign minister is convening, is, I think, part of an effort to show that they are invested, at least in mitigating the consequences of this war. And in particular, of course, the de facto closure of the Strait of Hormuz.

This is a virtual summit. Thirty-five countries are involved. Not just European, not just NATO, it's a broad coalition. But I think there is, of course, a real urgency here, given the economic shock that has already started to be felt in many of these countries because of the closure of that Strait.

As for NATO, look, there have been a lot of comments from President Trump recently. This has put NATO allies in a pretty delicate situation. Take a listen to some of those from Wednesday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We've had some very bad allies in NATO.

And, you know, we spend trillions of dollars on NATO. And when we need them, which we never do, we didn't need them here either. To be honest, I was really asking because I wanted to see what they'd do. We didn't need them. We blasted the hell out of them. Out of Iran. And the last thing I needed was NATO stepping in our way. Because they're not -- they're a paper tiger.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SEBASTIAN: So, note, I think in particular, the use of "they," not "us" when talking about NATO. I think the more you hear this kind of commentary from Trump, the more -- whether or not he does follow through on a threat to pull the U.S. out of that alliance, the more it undermines the alliance while the U.S. is still in it.

So, look, I think that is the sort of situation that these countries find themselves in, an economic shock brewing. And, of course, the more this goes on, the more it benefits Russia, which is, of course, Europe's biggest adversary.

Take a look at this post that just came out on X from Donald Tusk, the prime minister of Poland, saying, "the threat of NATO's break-up, easing sanctions on Russia, a massive energy crisis in Europe, halting aid for Ukraine and blocking the loan for Kyiv by Orban," the Hungarian prime minister, "it all looks like Putin's dream plan."

Europe in a very difficult situation as a result of this war. And I think today we're going to see really the first concrete meeting of leaders trying to mitigate that.

HILL: Yes, it will be interesting to see what comes out of that summit as well.

Clare, really appreciate it. Thank you.

President Trump's anger at NATO is now boiling over in interviews and public appearances. You just heard some of it there. He's called the defensive alliance, as you heard, "a paper tiger." In an interview with "The Telegraph" at an Easter event at the White House, the president implied he now has a better -- has a better relationship with foes of the United States than he does with U.S. allies.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: So, I learned about NATO. NATO won't be there if we ever have the big one. You know what I mean by the big one? We ever have the big one. Hopefully we won't. Relationships very good with the big one. Better than with NATO.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: The group chat is back. Also joining us, David Sanger, CNN political and national security analyst and "New York Times" White House and national security correspondent.

Since you're -- since you're new to the group chat this block, David, I'm going to start with you.

So, when we look at this, what we just heard from the -- from the president there, first of all, do you know what he is referencing, any sense, the big one?

DAVID SANGER, CNN POLITICAL AND NATIONAL SECURITY ANALYST: I assume what he meant was a big confrontation with Russia.

HILL: Yes.

SANGER: A nuclear confrontation with Russia.

NATO was created after World War II as an alliance of the west, fundamentally to contain the Soviet Union. And you may remember, it was only two years ago that Joe Biden had the 75th anniversary of NATO here in Washington, and it was celebrated.

I would say that two years later, even though the United States, I don't think, is imminently going to pull out, the president's blocked on that, Congress would have to approve, he can so undercut the confidence in NATO that every time he says this, he basically hollows out the entire alliance. And, you know, we've talked about NATO crises before, and we've had many. But this one may be actually the end of confidence in the organization.

HILL: End of confidence in the organization. Certainly, from his perspective, right?

SANGER: Yes.

HILL: But if you see this gathering of other NATO allies as they are coming closer together, right, and perhaps even reaching out to others around the globe, do -- how much will they continue to need the United States? He could, as you're pointing out, they don't have to -- the United States doesn't have to pull out, but can effectively really lessen its impact, right?

SANGER: Right.

HILL: Continue to undermine the authority, the credibility of the organization with these comments. Is there anything that those NATO allies, I guess what I'm saying, could do in response to maintain what they may need amongst themselves?

SANGER: Well, they've got two members who have nuclear weapons, right, Britain and France.

HILL: Yes.

[06:40:03]

SANGER: They could try to regather without the United States. But the U.S. has been the linchpin of the system. In fact, the NATO commander, the supreme allied commander in Europe, is always an American, right? And that's for a reason. It's the largest power within it. I think, you know, you heard Clare say earlier that Putin must really

be celebrating this. It's almost as if you had designed a system to boost Putin's agenda here because oil prices are now above $100 a barrel. After the president's speech, they went up significantly. And NATO is tearing itself apart. He spent 25 years, Putin, trying to figure out how to undermine NATO. And here it has been done for him.

HILL: How do you assess that in terms of what this is doing for Putin, for Russia's standing, right? Is this effectively --

MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: So, I'm going to make the -- a slight counterargument.

HILL: Yes.

DUBKE: I think -- I think David's absolutely correct about oil prices and that we can't take our eye off of that because that is funding Putin's war. The counterargument would be that NATO is a defensive organization. The United States pulling back in any form from that allows the Europeans to stand up a little straighter and to be more unified in their defense of Ukraine, which is a European, a European country, and it's a European conflict that's happening right now. And they are not necessarily going to take direction from the United States on how to combat Putin.

So, I'm just offering a counterargument that there is maybe some light at the end of this tunnel and something that Putin hadn't counted on if it materializes, which is a more unified Europe in its defense, its collective defense against Russian aggression.

SANGER: That had been happening, actually, since President Trump came into office, because the U.S. stopped shipping arms. The Europeans, the NATO -- other NATO countries have been.

HILL: There are also significant concerns, and we've talked about this a lot, right, about the messaging from the United States. And you even heard just the president there. Well, I said I wanted NATO, but then I didn't really need them. I don't need them anyway. I can do this all on my own and they didn't show up. It's this inconsistency. The consistent inconsistency that allies can't count on that is also pushing some of them away. I mean we see what -- let's think back to what happened with Canada and China just a couple of months ago. How does that play out in the long term, Meghan?

MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER BIDEN WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF MESSAGE PLANNING: Well, I just want to set the record straight here that the one time that we enacted Article V through NATO was to help the United States when we were attacked after 9/11. So, NATO did show up when the United States needed them. So, I find it completely disrespectful that the president is now attacking them for this, saying that they're not showing up when they were not briefed. They had no idea. We did not build a coalition before we went to Iran.

But also, how do -- how did he think countries were going to act when you give them -- when you put tariffs on them, when you insult them constantly, you go to their security conferences in their country and insult them and say, we don't need you, we can go it alone.

So now we actually do need them, and the world needs them to help open the Strait of Hormuz, and they're like, why would we help you? We don't want to be a part of this. And Trump's like, we didn't need you anyways. I mean it's just completely disrespectful and -- the lack of knowledge that he has of how this works and how you should work with your allies is frightening. And this is -- elections have consequences. And we are seeing it now.

HILL: Aaron, as you watch this, and in your expert analysis, which I count on regularly here at CNN, how are we seeing the rest of the world now start to perhaps change a little bit its response to Donald Trump?

AARON BLAKE, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Yes, I think it's really shifted a lot, especially in the last few months. When I saw the meeting about the Strait of Hormuz that includes all these countries but not the United States, I thought back to Mark Carney, the Canadian prime minister's big speech a few months ago where he laid out a pretty impassioned case that these countries might have to figure out a different way here, one that doesn't revolve around the United States, doesn't necessarily involve the United States as much.

I think these countries are coming to that conclusion. Whether we ultimately see the dissolution of NATO, as David says, maybe kind of besides the point. It may be a situation in which these countries kind of proactively decide that they just can't count on the United States anymore. And I think that ratchets up even more, a whole lot more, if we do leave the Strait of Hormuz closed and pull out of Iran without resolving that issue, because that is a major -- it's a much bigger problem for Europe than it is for the United States, necessarily. And that's basically leaving a giant problem on their doorstep.

HILL: All right, thank you all.

Much more ahead here on CNN THIS MORNING. For the first time in 50 years, the first crewed mission to the moon is now in space. We're going to take a closer look at what's ahead for the team over the course of their ten-day journey.

Plus.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They're just being fools and lapdogs for the rhinos and the radical left Democrats.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: President Trump continuing to attack the justices on the Supreme Court after a string of losses.

[06:45:02]

Will the court, though, give him a win in his latest case, birthright citizenship? And a little bit later, with rising gas and grocery prices, could we

actually be headed to a recession? You're going to hear from a finance expert, Yale finance expert Natasha Sarin, on the state of the economy.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

HILL: At the Kennedy Space Center in Florida, look at all those excited faces capturing it on their phones, turning out for the Artemis II launch into the sky. Across the country, Americans gathering to witness this moment in history.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was thinking, this hasn't happened since 1972, and that's why it was just so long. And how much preparation they had to take into sending them to -- around the moon.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It meant so much because not only there were humans on that rocket that made it successfully, but also there was a woman. And that one person takes us all there.

[06:50:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's also a celebration of man's, you know, step forward. Our second step into the outer universe.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I was super excited. Honestly, I feel like chills. The, you know, the risk they -- those five people, four people are getting.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: A lot of excitement there.

Ivan Rodriguez joining us live from the Kennedy Space Center in Florida.

You were there for that moment. It is really something to witness it in person. And the way the sound hits you. I'm thinking back to covering the final shuttle launch. Can you just walk us through? We heard so much excitement from those folks there in Houston with Ed Lavandera yesterday. What were people saying to you in the moment?

IVAN RODRIGUEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Erica, it was incredible. We're 12 hours now from that historic Artemis II launch. And I can tell you, I mean, even in the days leading up to this, there was so much excitement. We went to the Kennedy Space Center Visitor Complex. We spoke with people who traveled from across the country just to come here to this launch. We also heard from people from across the world who wanted to witness this historic moment.

I had the privilege of being here for Artemis I on launch day, and now Artemis II. And I can tell you, it doesn't get old. You can feel that rumble in your chest. And when you see it at takeoff, those bright flames leaving the rocket's four engines, a massive burn that you just -- you shoot up into the sky. It's almost hard to just continue staring at those bright flames.

Right now we know that the Orion spacecraft is currently orbiting earth. In fact, we should see the astronauts waking up here within the next 15 to 20 minutes possibly for the next stage of the mission, which will be a planned orbital adjustment. It's a very important maneuver. Right now they have been orbiting earth in sort of a more of a circular orbit. And now this will help them hit more of an oval shaped orbit around the earth. That will then help them move a little bit closer to the moon and continue that historic journey to the far side of the moon.

And I think it's just so interesting too, Erica, when we're looking at the Orion spacecraft itself. We know that it's tight quarters in there. It's about the size of a small studio interior space we're told of about the size of two minivans. So, they're going to have to pretty much be sleeping in the same place where they work.

And a good example, I thought, was when Christina Koch, one of the NASA astronauts on board, was asking mission control about the toilet being functional. There was some issues with the toilet last night. Good news is, mission control says that you were good now to use a toilet all night.

HILL: Yes.

RODRIGUEZ: So, it's those little things that mean everything.

HILL: That little thing is a big thing. I have to say, that's one of the headlines that caught me when I woke up this morning, the fact that there was an issue, they realized, with the toilet not long after takeoff. It's sort of the only private space there that they have. And really the first time that there's been an actual toilet.

But everything is good now? Toilet is fixed? They're good for the next ten days?

RODRIGUEZ: They're good. They were in their sleeping bags. Christina Koch also asked them to confirm that there was going to be a song played for them, to make sure that they can wake up. So, that is all good to go. There's a song that will be played for them. So, the next time we do hear from the astronauts will be when they wake up again and then go on to this next stage of the mission for that oval orbit around the earth.

HILL: All right. Very cool. Nice work on landing this assignment, Ivan. Thank you.

Pam Bondi's days as attorney general may be numbered. Multiple sources telling CNN, President Trump has been privately discussing firing the attorney general over the fallout from the release of the Epstein files and some of the more cringe worthy moments like this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PAM BONDI, ATTORNEY GENERAL: None of them asked Merrick Garland over the last four years one word about Jeffrey Epstein. How ironic is that? You know why? Because Donald Trump, the Dow -- the Dow, right now, is over -- the Dow is over 50,000. I don't know why you're laughing.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: Sources telling CNN the president is now strongly considering EPA Administrator Lee Zeldin to replace Bondi at DOJ. President Trump, important to note also, became the first sitting president to attend oral arguments at the Supreme Court on Wednesday. He was there, of course, to listen to arguments for the case centered on his attempt to overturn birthright citizenship via executive order. That, of course, is guaranteed by the 14th Amendment.

The group chat is back.

So, let's start off, first of all, with Pam Bondi. What is the sense, Aaron, why now, if she is set to go?

BLAKE: It's a really good question. I think that, you know, we talked about the Epstein files. That's been a saga that's been playing out really for more than a year right now. But we've also seen in recent weeks, especially in recent months, these attempts to target Trump's political opponents that have kind of coursed through the DOJ. And we see this pop up every once in a while and then kind of fade away. Those haven't gone very well. You know, some of these cases, they did get indictments, and then the indictments were thrown out. The Jerome Powell investigation hasn't exactly gone to plan. There's reporting that suggests that some of these investigations have ramped up as some of the pressure has increased on Bondi.

[06:55:02]

But we haven't really seen that kind of retribution campaign that Trump has talked about really being brought forward. And so it kind of makes me wonder, like, if President Trump is looking at Bondi's stewardship of the Justice Department right now, what successes is he seeing in his mind?

HILL: Right.

BLAKE: The things that he's really looking for. And I'm not sure he's necessarily seeing those.

HILL: Which then makes me wonder too, let's say -- so let's say, Mike, Pam Bondi is out. Let's say Lee Zeldin ends up there, for example, or anyone else. Do you anticipate -- because some of the roadblocks, frankly, that this DOJ has run into is a lack of evidence for what the president would like to see happen. What actually changes if the person at the top changes if the facts don't change?

DUBKE: So --

HAYES: Great question.

DUBKE: So, to answer your first question, though, what changed? Kristi Noem is no longer taking all the flack to begin with. So, Pam Bondi was second in line for the media and everyone else to come after. So, I think that's part of it.

I think your point is well taken. Pam Bondi has done for the president what Pete Sessions couldn't do in the first administration. And that's basically run an organization that is pursuing a lot of the efforts that the president wants her to pursue.

I don't find the reporting on him questioning whether she should go or stay to be all that fascinating because he does that all the time. And I don't think that's actually new. Maybe it's ratcheted up a little bit. But this is -- this is, you know, from my experience, this is Trump being Trump.

HILL: This is maybe Trump being Trump, right. But do you think, given that, as you just pointed out, now Kristi Noem is gone, more attention on Pam Bondi, but --

DUBKE: Right. There is. But we can't forget that she was easily replaced by a fellow senator, Markwayne Mullin, who was able to go through a confirmation hearing. A confirmation hearing for DOJ is not going to be as smooth with a Lee Zeldin, who doesn't have those relationships. So, we've got to take the -- we got to look at the entire picture here and what is the art of the possible. And I'm not sure replacing Pam Bondi prior to the midterms is possible.

HILL: There's also, looking at the whole picture, I find this to be a fascinating through line between the Pam Bondi reporting and what we saw at the Supreme Court yesterday, President Trump being there. And to me the through line is, President Trump, and he's been very clear about this publicly, he has certain expectations of people that he puts in certain positions. That includes the justices. And there was a lot made about him being at the court yesterday and what is the message that that sends. The court sent its own message back in terms of their questioning.

HAYS: Yes, absolutely. I mean they were not falling for it. This, obviously -- this clearly is not constitutional what he is trying to do, but I think he tries to go there to intimidate them. Like, I put you here and they're sort of like, we don't care. We answer to the Constitution, not to you.

But also with Pam Bondi. She is supposed to schedule -- she's scheduled to testify in the Oversight Committee hearing here coming soon, which is going to bring the Epstein files right back in to view for everyone again, which I think that he was trying to get out of view. And, I mean, Susie Wiles has blamed her. I think Donald Trump blames her for the handling of the Epstein files. And a lot of the first year of the administration was very marred with those sorts of stories over and over. And it's not going away. And I think that this -- maybe he thinks that getting rid of her takes that away. But I think it just creates more problems for someone else because then someone's going to want a review of it. There's going to be investigations happening if a new person comes in. It's going to be a mess, just like you said.

DUBKE: Well, it's going to be another mess.

HAYS: Yes, it's going to be another mess.

HILL: How much of a sense is there within the administration that given the mess that could be brought up with any changes, that it's a reason to stick with the status quo?

BLAKE: I mean, Mike brings up a very good point. If you look at who is on the Judiciary Committee in the Senate, you know, Thom Tillis is an increasingly critical voice of the administration. He has drawn a hard line when it comes to Trump's nominee for the Federal Reserve. He's spoken out against some of these tendencies that we've seen in the Justice Department. You know, it's a really good question, are they going to be able to get a replacement through that committee? Will it -- not just will they be able to get it through, but will it be the kind of person that Trump wants in that position? Are they going to be able to get somebody? You know, maybe a Lee Zeldin could get through, but somebody who might be a little bit more gloves off with doing some of the things that Trump wants, maybe they'll have a tougher time.

HILL: Yes.

We have about a little over a minute left for a little group chat.

Meghan, you have not been teed up first because you were teed up first this morning for the group chat.

HAYS: Great. I -- the Bravo controversy with "Summer House" is all over our group chat and explaining it. I -- even there was reporting that Senator Cruz was getting a debrief from his staff yesterday about what's happening here --

HILL: Wow.

HAYS: With the Amanda and Kyle and Sierra and the rest of it all. So, I mean, that is all over our group chat and it's not going away.

HILL: This has been a multiple group chats this week, and I feel like I need to start watching this show because I am totally clueless.

HAYS: It's incredible. I also --

HILL: Mike, you're shaking your head. So, I'm talking it you're not a "Summer House" guy?

HAYS: He also --

DUBKE: I'm certainly not a -- I -- well, first of all, this "Summer House" sounds like a remake of Alan Alda's "Four Seasons," because it -- I mean so it sounds like they've already done this, been there, and then we had Steve Carell do that. So, that's one.

HILL: That was a great show.

DUBKE: I just -- I don't -- I don't care.

HILL: OK, so what do you --

(CROSS TALK)

DUBKE: I just don't care.

HAYS: Senator Cruz clearly cares.

HILL: Well, what's in your group chat?

DUBKE: I don't understand why Senator Cruz cares.

[07:00:01]

HAYS: Because it's -- everyone in America is talking about this outside of politics. So, it gives us something else to talk about. And it's incredible that Bravo is such an influence.

DUBKE: I want to know -- I want to know how they got the plumber up to Artemis to fix the toilet. That's what I care about.

HAYS: I also -- that's also important. That's important.

HILL: Because you have a hard time getting a plumber because they're in high demand. Is that why?

DUBKE: Well, up to Artemis, yes.

HILL: Yes.

You have 10 seconds.

BLAKE: I will say, we're talking about the Noem family drama right now.

HILL: Yes.

BLAKE: The real reality TV situation that's going on.

HILL: Oh, yes.

HAYS: That's also incredible.

DUBKE: Yes.

BLAKE: I will say, as a Minnesotan, we do not recognize what's happening with South Dakota right now. That is not -- that is not something we're familiar with.

HILL: This is an important clarification.

All right, we're going to have to leave it there, but it's giving you a lot to think about and talk about for the day. I'm Erica Hill. Thanks so much for joining us. The headlines are next.