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Jen Gavito is Interviewed about Iran; Orban Concedes Election; Rep. Johnny Olszewski (D-MD) is Interviewed about Iran. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired April 13, 2026 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Can you talk a little bit about this. I know Hegseth is a follower of Doug Wilson, who's an Evangelical pastor, who believes, among other things, about repealing women's right to vote. But can you talk about this, how he's been approaching it in language and tone?

CHRISTOPHER HALE, PUBLISHER, "ETTERS FROM LEO": I think that Pete Hegseth's Gospel -- or Bible ends in the Old Testament. He never seems to invoke the New Testament, the message of peace, the message of Jesus. And I think that what's remarkable is you talk about Doug Wilson. You're right, there is an Evangelical versus Catholic divide on how to approach a lot of these issues.

Doug Wilson, who was invited to speak at the Pentagon on February 14th, has a very low view of Catholicism. He said just last month that he would want to ban public expressions of the Catholic faith in American life. And so, it's remarkable to me that this man is leading our troops, that he has these advisors close to him that are so clearly anti-Catholic. We know on Good Friday, for the first time in at least 40 years, there was no Catholic service for Pentagon workers on Good Friday. So, it seems that the Catholic Church once again is being marginalized in this administration and I would argue being attacked in this administration.

CORNISH: Now, I know you're among the progressive voices in this church. And it's an interesting moment when I look at those cardinals who were on "60 Minutes" last night talking about what they see as the role of the church. And here is where they were commenting even on the social media feeds, right, coming out of the Pentagon, describing it as a kind of gamification of war.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CARDINAL BLASE CUPICH, ARCHBISHOP OF CHICAGO: We're dehumanizing the victims of war by turning the suffering of people and the killing of children and our own soldiers into entertainment.

NORAH O'DONNELL, CBS NEWS ANCHOR: You called it sickening.

CUPICH: It is sickening. To splice together movie cuts with actual bombing and targeting of people for the purposes of entertainment is sickening. This is not who we are. We're better than this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: How is the first American pope changing the American Catholic Church?

HALE: I think it's remarkable. He's saying similar things to Francis. But Francis was oftentimes marginalized by more conservative voices in the episcopacy of the bishops in the United States with basically the idea was, he's from Argentina. He doesn't understand us. He's from a different world. He doesn't understand the American people. You cannot make the same argument for a man born in suburban Chicago.

And so, I think what's happened is that there's been a shift among the episcopacy in the United States under Leo the 14th. They realized that Leo's not going anywhere. He understands the United States. He has his priorities, and he expects the bishops to carry -- to carry that message forward.

One final note. It takes a long time to get your people in place. Francis was pope for 12 years. During the first Trump administration, we didn't hear as much pushback because his people were not yet in place. These are Francis bishops. These are Leo bishops who now are in the highest echelons of the church in the United States. And that's changing everything.

CORNISH: OK. That's Christopher Hale.

Thank you so much for talking with us.

HALE: Thank you for having me.

CORNISH: Straight ahead on CNN THIS MORNING, Vice President Vance never wanted this war, and he couldn't end it with diplomacy but can talks be revived?

Plus, the Trump and Putin ally who lost in Hungary and what that could mean for Russia's war in Ukraine.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:38:12]

CORNISH: So, Vice President J.D. Vance never wanted a war with Iran. He, however, failed to end it through diplomacy. Later this morning, U.S. Central Command says it will begin enforcing President Trump's order of a maritime blockade of the Strait of Hormuz. Now, there are lots of questions about what comes next.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): I hope they would continue these negotiations, but I don't see how 40 plus days into this war that we are safer, that our allies are safer. I'm not even sure Israel is safer. And the idea that the president somehow acts like he was surprised that the Iranians closed the Strait or attacked our gulf allies, shows that he's either not getting briefed or he's not reading the intelligence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: So, Jen Gavito joins the group chat. She's the former deputy assistant secretary of state on issues of Iran, Iraq and public diplomacy.

Thank you so much for being here.

We're not going to be talking about our secretary of state, because he was at a UFC game with Trump, so he wasn't in these talks.

Vance did not turn out to be much of a closer in terms of adding him to these talks, but were they ever serious or do you think they were an off ramp out of really heightened language by -- and threats by the president?

JEN GAVITO, SENIOR ADVISER, COHEN GROUP: I think there's a bit of all of that. I do agree that they were an off ramp. I think this president would like to be done with the kinetic piece of this conflict.

CORNISH: You mean military?

GAVITO: Military. Exactly.

CORNISH: OK.

GAVITO: And so, yes, the toxin Islamabad were, on one hand, arguably not serious in that 21 hours as compared to, for example, the JCPOA, which dealt only with the nuclear issue and lasted months, more than a year --

RON BROWNSTEIN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Years.

CORNISH: Yes.

GAVITO: Exactly. Depending on how you define it.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

CORNISH: And both sides went in with maximalist demands.

[06:40:00]

Let me just put it that way. Like, Iran didn't come to the table hat in hand and with things that it knew that it could get.

GAVITO: Right.

CORNISH: Some of the red lines the White House said was ending their uranium enrichment. And I think stores of enriched uranium was another thing.

GAVITO: Correct.

CORNISH: And also having -- ending funding for terrorist proxy groups. So, there were a couple issues on the table, although none of them made headway.

GAVITO: No. And, in fact, those are also red lines for Iran. I think it has to be said. I think the United States went into these talks dealing with Iran as if it were an adversary that had been defeated.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

GAVITO: And that is not where Iran saw itself. It did not feel that it needed to make the types of concessions that were going to get to a deal in 21 hours.

So, I do think there's still room for diplomacy. I think the signals that have come out of both sides are actually more moderated than I might have expected at this point. But that's a good thing because, ultimately, I think this conflict is not going to be won militarily. It's going to be won diplomatically.

BROWNSTEIN: You know, is there a use of force that can get the president an outcome that solves his political problem in the U.S.? I mean, and that's -- it's hard to see what that is at this point. So, you know, to the point, I mean, ultimately, there has to be some kind of accommodation that is short of a set of demands that look like the surrender conditions of someone who has been unequivocally defeated militarily. Certainly they've been militarily degraded, but they feel that their strategic position is actually stronger than weaker.

GAVITO: Absolutely.

FRANCESCA CHAMBERS, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, "USA TODAY": But the one key thing coming out of these talks is that U.S. officials were saying that this was the United States' best and final offer. So, their argument right now is that, sure, we're open to keep talking and having a dialog here but is that really a negotiation if you're saying that this is our best and final offer. Really what it seems like they want to do is say, hey, you know, if you guys want to come back and accept this, that's fine, but the president's not going to move off of these, you know, key things that we've said (INAUDIBLE).

CORNISH: I also don't want to dismiss the remarkable moment that it was. Meaning, the U.S. has not had high level talks with Iran in decades. And for that handshake to happen between -- you're nodding your head. Do you know what I mean?

GAVITO: I agree with that. I do find it remarkable that they went in at the foreign minister level straight off the bat. Normally you would reserve that for, as you know, closing.

CORNISH: Yes.

GAVITO: That's not -- not for foundational negotiations. And so, yes, I think that talking is always better than not talking. I suspect that that will continue. But I think we went in believing that we didn't need to negotiate. And if we want a deal ultimately to come through, particularly when it comes to the nuclear issue, there is going to have to be a way for Iran to save face.

CORNISH: OK, you guys, stay with me.

BROWNSTEIN: (INAUDIBLE).

CORNISH: I promise. I want to turn to one other thing, because there's this landmark defeat in Hungary for the Trump-backed prime minister, Viktor Orban. Now, Orban was dealt a stunning loss. He's been in power for 16 years. And the Hungarians celebrated Orban's loss on the streets of Budapest well into the night. And the country's newly elected prime minister, Peter Magyar, declared the country liberated.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER MAGYAR, TISZA PARTY LEADER (through translator): We did it. Tisza and Hungary won this election. Not in a small way, but in a big way. A very big way. Together, we replace the Orban regime. Together, we liberated Hungary. We took back our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Orban was a celebrated figure in the far right in Europe. Also at the White House. Vice President J.D. Vance has visited Budapest in support of Orban in the final days of what is a now failed campaign.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VIKTOR ORBAN, CONCEDES HUNGARY PRIME MINISTER RACE (through translator): Dear friends, the election result is not final yet, but it is understandable and clear. The election result is painful for us, but clear. The responsibility and possibility of governing was not given to us. I have congratulated the winner.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: OK, group chat is back because Sara had said to me at the start of this program, oh my God, I'm so excited to talk about this. But can you talk about why you, an American media reporter, cares about an election in Hungary?

SARA FISCHER, CNN SENIOR MEDIA ANALYST: Oh, yes. When we look at democracies around the world that are backsliding, the number one indicator is the dictator or the person in charge systematically undermining the fourth estate. And if you look at who has created the playbook for that, its Viktor Orban. And the way he did it was he used the government's funds to reward outlets that gave him favorable coverage. And he gave them so much money, mostly through advertising, that competitors who were trying to do opposition reporting or straight reporting couldn't survive. And what that did is it made a system where everybody had to become reliant on the government's funding for staying in power in the media.

Why this matters is, if Viktor Orban systematically undermined the fourth estate to a level we've never seen, and still lost, it sends a very powerful message to dictators around the world that your fake news laws and your efforts by the government to undermine the press in order to retain power are not a surefire thing. [06:45:09]

CORNISH: Right.

FISCHER: Especially when I look at the Trump administration.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

FISCHER: There have been elements that have echoed some of these policies. For example, removing federal subscriptions to certain outlets that they don't like, threatening access for certain reporters in places like the Oval Office, the Pentagon and Air Force One. And so, this is sending a very, very serious message.

And then the other thing -- the other reason why this matters is, you know, CPAC, which is such an influential part of the American right --

CORNISH: Conservative Political Action. Right.

FISCHER: Exactly. You know, they saw Hungary as one of their best opportunities to establish outposts and spread its message around the world. And so you're seeing now that Hungary becomes a less favorable place for CPAC to continue its worldwide expansion after this.

CORNISH: Let me follow up on this because in Europe I want to show you a couple of flags where far right parties have been gaining ground in the aftermath of Orban's original election. It's been 16 years. This feels like I'm seeing people like Barack Obama celebrating this, just to give people an idea, but also Zelenskyy of Ukraine, because Orban had pulled much closer to Russia, I think even suspended kind of funding and aid. Can you give me the details on how this might change the game for the war in Ukraine?

GAVITO: Sure. Orban has been, for 16 years, a thorn in the side of Europe and has succeeded by virtue of the consensus model of the E.U. in slowing sanctions on Russia, delivery of assistance to Ukraine. Any variety of policy decisions that are not aligned with his populist agenda. By removing that, certainly, that should open the door to greater E.U. support for Ukraine, expedited E.U. support.

CORNISH: One last thing. Francesca, can I ask how the White House sees this? I mean you had Trump saying, look, I'm going to give you guys, voters, extra funding for Hungary if you vote for Orban. It just felt like they put their necks out there for this country because it symbolized something to them.

CHAMBERS: Well, the president didn't answer questions on this last night. Who knows if -- in the time we've been here, maybe he's commented on it since.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

CHAMBERS: But I wanted to raise what you were saying about the E.U., but also for NATO. I mean Hungary, led by Orban, had been an obstacle within NATO for further support for Ukraine also. And I actually wrote recently about how that might present a model for President Donald Trump as he looks at ways to pull back U.S. support for NATO. You don't necessarily have to withdraw. There are other ways that you can, you know, throw up flags inside of the operation if you wanted to. And so, I do think that the Trump administration has looked towards Orban's model, not just in the very literal sense of J.D. Vance was, you know, there campaigning for him, which is very unusual for U.S. politicians.

CORNISH: No, immigration and other --

CHAMBERS: Right.

BROWNSTEIN: And not only that. I mean it wasn't only the press they were undermining. They were undermining all the institutions of civil society.

GAVITO: Exactly.

BROWNSTEIN: Judiciary, universities, severe gerrymandering. And two words. If the democratic system is still in structure at all, reality counts. No matter how much control you have over the media, voters are still expert in their own lives.

GAVITO: And this really punctures the idea that there is a permanence to these populist movements.

FISCHER: Yes.

GAVITO: Going into --

CORNISH: That they're not inevitable.

BROWNSTEIN: Poland as well.

GAVITO: Exactly, going into the midterm elections. I think that's powerful.

CORNISH: Yes.

FISCHER: Yes.

CORNISH: OK, well, we'll see, because, as we said, there's a model here and a lot of people are looking to the symbolism of this moment. And, Jen, I'm glad you were here to flesh it out with us. I really appreciate it.

Next on CNN, we're going to talk about Eric Wwalwell, whether the Democrat should step down. I'm going to be asking Congressman Johnny O. about that and more.

Plus, which side is going to be forced back to the table first? World economy in jeopardy as Iran talks fail.

And later on CNN, it's the wild west in the health world. Peptides. What's real, what's risk and what's next?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK) [06:53:00]

CORNISH: All right, if you're waking up this morning, know that the U.S. Navy is under orders to start a blockade of shipping connected to Iran. U.S. Central Command says that they will intercept ships which leave from Iranian ports starting at 10 a.m. Eastern Time.

So, this latest strategy comes as oil surges back past $100 per barrel as weekend peace talks failed to reach a breakthrough.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE TURNER (R-OH): The president, by saying we're not just going to let them decide who gets through, is certainly calling all of our allies and everyone to the table of, this needs to be addressed.

SEN. MARK WARNER (D-VA): I don't understand how blockading the strait is going to somehow push the Iranians into opening it. I don't get the connection there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Joining us in the group chat now to talk about this is Congressman Johnny Olszewski, Democrat from Maryland.

Welcome back.

REP. JOHNNY OLSZEWSKI (D-MD): Thanks.

Now, I think you're on a subcommittee related to energy, reaching back into my brain. Can you talk about what you think of this blockade? Do you think that the U.S. can somehow counter what Iran has been doing effectively?

OLSZEWSKI: I mean, yes, we're countering the fact that they've driven up oil prices, and now we are going to further drive up oil prices. So, if that is a counter, then the Trump administration is being very successful here.

I was driving into D.C. this morning from Baltimore and gas prices were like $4.40 a gallon now.

CORNISH: Yes.

OLSZEWSKI: This is crushing hard-working Americans. And I don't see the end game, the strategy.

But again, not surprising. This president has failed to have one person from the administration come before the Foreign Affairs Committee to give any sort of public briefing.

CORNISH: So, you've had no briefing at this point?

OLSZEWSKI: Not a single briefing.

CORNISH: Or not a sufficient briefing? OLSZEWSKI: Not a single public briefing. We've had a few classified briefings where no real information was shared that I couldn't have gleaned from watching your show, Audie.

CORNISH: OK. So, to your point, impact of gas prices. I'm going to back up what you're saying here and talk about how people are feeling about it. In the CBS News poll, where it was broken out, Democrats, independents, GOP, sort of whether or not gas prices are imposing a financial hardship on them and otherwise people talking about that it's difficult but not a financial hardship, inconvenience.

[06:55:08]

These numbers are pretty spread across the board right now. Do you think they're going to shift? And is that what Democrats are planning to campaign on?

OLSZEWSKI: Well, the longer people are paying these prices at the pumps, the longer they're going to, I think, move in that direction of this being a problem for them.

But that's just gas. We have to remember that energy prices are up, that we're now paying surcharges because of the gas prices being up on things like our Amazon deliveries. Mortgage rates are up. Consistently across the board, this is an administration that is driving up the cost of living, despite promising to lower costs on day one.

CORNISH: And here's -- hold on one second. Here's what Democrats are focused on right now, OK, and how they're approaching this. This is Representative Jayapal on Trump, on "MS Now" yesterday talking about this effort to invoke the 25th Amendment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): I have taken the position that we need to do whatever we can to get him out. Impeach him, invoke the 25th Amendment, push for him to resign, whatever it is, because this is so grave of a situation. It is the top thing on my constituent's minds during our town halls. It is the question I get asked no matter what airport I'm in.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Can you respond to this, 25th Amendment, resign, whatever. It's kind of throwing spaghetti at the wall here.

OLSZEWSKI: Cost of living. I'm focused on lowering costs for hard working Americans.

CORNISH: Should they be focused on this? Would you be voting for something like invoking the 25th Amendment?

OLSZEWSKI: The president has done any number of items that I think are impeachable, or that should have the cabinet invoke the 25th Amendment. But I think if we are connecting with Americans on this cost of living issue and the fact that they are being crushed by the cost, we can also have a conversation about, if this comes up, but I don't think we should be leading with that.

We just saw, fortunately, Viktor Orban was removed, not through the 25th Amendment or some other mechanism of government, but by the people. And I think if we continue to connect on these issues of war, these issues of cost of living, Democrats will prevail in the midterm and beyond.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. To the congressman's point about gas prices, I mean, you have to understand where we're starting from on this. The principal reason Trump voters gave for voting for him in 2024 was that they felt their cost of living was out of control. And before we dropped a single bomb, the first bomb on Iran, 60 to 65 percent of Americans said that he had not made sufficient progress on the problem, and they did not feel that he was sufficiently focused on the problem. And to the extent he had focused on it, they thought his policies, particularly the tariffs, had made it worse rather than better.

So, you take all of that as the baseline, and then you begin a war that you make almost no effort to explain to the American public. And not surprisingly then two-thirds say they don't know why we're doing this. And that has the effect of compounding the problem they feel that you have failed to solve in the first place. That is not a -- you would not draw that up in the lab as a formula for political success.

CORNISH: Yes.

Let me ask one more thing, because your colleagues have come out in force against Eric Swalwell due to the allegations of sexual misconduct. You have Hakeem Jeffries saying that not just he should end his campaign for governor, which he has, but this is unacceptable. Does Swalwell need to leave Congress? Should your colleagues be voting to expel him?

OLSZEWSKI: Unacceptable. Disturbing. Multiple credible women have come forward in this instance. He was right to suspend his campaign. He should resign from Congress. And if he doesn't, there's a mechanism through which we can do that.

I am frustrated that the Ethics Committee takes far too long. It should take days or weeks to verify these claims and take action, not months and years. Unfortunately, this is not the only instance that we should be dealing with among colleagues. But Congress should take action if my colleague doesn't. But he should resign based on what I think are multiple, credible allegations.

CORNISH: Is that what's in the group chat?

OLSZEWSKI: Key Bridge is in the group chat back in Baltimore.

CORNISH: Tell me more.

OLSZEWSKI: It's a huge, important artery for commerce for the country. We're focused on getting it done as quickly as we can. It is an important project for us. We just had an announcement that we settled with the ship owner and operator to get some money. I don't know how much it is. The attorney general didn't tell me yet. But we really have to get it built quickly and on time, if not under budget or on budget. So, we're really focusing on the Key Bridge among friends back home.

CORNISH: OK. And what about you? What's in your group chat?

CHAMBERS: I know Ron's very excited about mine.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes. No. I mean, yes. Yes. No. Yes.

CHAMBERS: About mine. No, you're excited about mine today.

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

CHAMBERS: I was saying for me it's American Girls. They are re- releasing the original dolls to celebrate the 40th anniversary. And I won one in a contest when I was younger. I won. Kirsten.

CORNISH: Oh.

BROWNSTEIN: Oh.

CHAMBERS: Yes.

CORNISH: So, this is your time?

BROWNSTEIN: Yes.

CHAMBERS: Jon was recently reminiscing over the dolls.

CORNISH: OK. OK.

Sara, what about you?

FISCHER: I think Rory in the Masters has got to be the big headline here.

CORNISH: Oh, you're a golf person?

FISCHER: Yes, my husband's a big golf person. And one of the reasons it's so interesting is, I look at the spring as being like America's pastime. Baseball's coming back, right? But you know what? Increasingly it's becoming more about international sport. We got F1 coming up in Miami. F1 is becoming a bigger thing here. Golf has blown up since the pandemic.

[07:00:01]

You have more international players coming in. And so, it feels like a different kind of revival of spring sports.

BROWNSTEIN: You know, seeing sports, a lot of people in L.A. worrying, wondering the same question, what is going on with Dodger Stadium? What is this Uniqlo all over the field? So, I guess that's what -- that's what we're chatting in L.A. CORNISH: No, I love it. These are group good chats. Plus, in a -- in a

while the news is going to wreck our group chats because I think we're going to be hearing from the administration this morning on their plans to counter the bloc on the Strait of Hormuz.

Please stay with us. Weve got headlines next.