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Dr. Carlos del Rio is Interviewed about the Hantavirus Cruise Ship; Rubio Fuels 2028 Speculation; Rep. James Walkinshaw (D-VA) is Interviewed about Redistricting. Aired 6:30-7a ET
Aired May 08, 2026 - 06:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[06:34:18]
AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: At this point, five U.S. states are monitoring several people who have returned to the U.S. after traveling on that cruise ship, where there has been a hantavirus outbreak. And as far as we know, right now, they're all asymptomatic. Public health officials in Arizona are saying the public should not be concerned.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NICOLE WHITT, ARIZONA DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH SERVICES: This is, you know, the person to person transmission. And certainly when individuals are hearing about the severity of this disease, there is a lot of public concern. So, really, for us, the important message right now is to make sure that the general public understands that there is no risk for them.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: I want to bring in Dr. Carlos del Rio.
[06:35:02]
He's the chair of the Department of Medicine at Emory University School of Medicine.
I've got a lot of questions about the ship, but I just want to address the public concern and play for you how people are freaking out online.
Take a listen.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: All we wanted was summer 2016 back. A little ten- year revival of summer 2016. But instead it seemed like we about to get summer 2020 back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't do it. I can't. You -- I gave you my one lifetime pandemic, and that was coronavirus. Like, I can't do another one.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: What's your message to people who are using those terms? Because we have heard from the World Health Organization that this is not the start of a pandemic
DR. CARLOS DEL RIO, CHAIR, DEPARTMENT OF MEDICINE, EMORY UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Yes. Thank you very much for having me this morning.
I agree with (INAUDIBLE) shown. I agree with the people that are saying this is very interesting. This is concerning, but clearly not the start of a new pandemic.
These are viruses that we know a lot about. We know how it's transmitted. They aren't very easy to transmit. The virus has not changed. There's no mutation whatsoever.
So, in general, this is a virus that transmits very poorly between persons to persons and the outbreak is probably self-contained. It's probably going to go away. We may see a case here or there. But overall, you're not going to see what we call the reproductive number of this virus is pretty low. It's less than two, which means that there's one -- less than one infection from an uninfected individual. So, eventually, this pandemic, this outbreak is going to die away. And it's already doing that.
CORNISH: And at this point, when you see people who are being monitored in various countries, can you just tell us briefly what doctors are looking for in those folks who have already disembarked?
DEL RIO: Well, the challenge with this virus is that the incubation period, the time between exposure and developing symptoms, can be -- usually it's about 10 to 15 days, but it could be as long as six to eight weeks. So, during that period, the person is asymptomatic. They need to be checked regularly. They need to be check whether they develop symptoms. The symptoms initially are very similar to the flu. Are they starting to develop a fever. Are they starting to develop, you know, body aches, fatigue. And at that point in time, you have to test them. You have to do a blood test, a PCR test, looking for this hantavirus.
And that's what they're doing right now. They're watching them. They're making sure they don't transmit to others. We know this is transmitted person to person through secretions. We know this is transmitted through intimate contact, like sex. So, there are certain things we need to do to prevent it from spreading to others, educating them, letting them know how to prevent spread, letting them know how to be aware of symptoms.
But if you monitor these individuals and you diagnose them early and you tackle it, the spread is going to stop.
CORNISH: That's Dr. Carlos del Rio. Thank you so much for your time. He's from Emory University. I want to turn now to the secretary of state, Marco Rubio, continuing
his diplomatic trip to Italy this morning. And he's fresh off his meeting with the pope. He's meeting right now with Italian leaders, including Prime Minister Giorgia Meloni. And it's been a busy week for the secretary of state. He went to the White House Briefing Room on Tuesday, and his answer about his hope for America, coupled with, like, this new, flashy video, is fueling some speculation about his plans for 2028.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MARCO RUBIO, SECRETARY OF STATE: And I think in the U.S., we're not perfect. Our history is not one of perfection, but it's still better than anybody else's history. And ours is a story of perpetual improvement. Each generation has left the next generation of Americans freer, more prosperous, safer. And that is our goal as well. And as we come upon this 250-year anniversary, I think we have a lot to learn and be proud of in our history. It is one of perpetual and continuous improvement.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Group chat is back.
Noel, can I start with you?
NOEL KING, CO-HOST AND EDITORIAL DIRECTOR, "TODAY, EXPLAINED" PODCAST: Yes.
CORNISH: Because for people -- we're not just psychos who only care about 2028. There's sometimes specific messaging that you hear.
KING: Yes. Yes.
CORNISH: Key words that make you think this is not talking about just this moment. Look at you smiling. You know what I'm talking about.
ROB BLUEY, PRESIDENT AND EXECUTIVE EDITOR, "THE DAILY SIGNAL": Right. Yes.
CORNISH: As soon as I see Reagan.
KING: He's texting Rubio.
CORNISH: I'm like, why is this in here?
KING: Yes.
CORNISH: So, what to you about it gives the vibe of, I'm thinking beyond this moment?
KING: Reagan. Reagan, right?
ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Oh. Oooh.
KING: I mean, honestly. No, Marco Rubio is such an interesting guy. He has maintained,
retained this kind of fundamental awkwardness for all the years that he's been in, you know, high political positions in all the years that he's been in the public eye. He does not seem like a natural president. But this is the kind of -- that ad that we heard with the Reagan and America is a good country that has always been improving.
CORNISH: That part.
KING: That is a -- that is a strong message. That's a strong message.
BLUEY: Yes. He's said publicly that he would defer to Vice President Vance if he chose to pursue the presidency. So, I take him at his word that they're friends. They probably are (ph).
However, I do think that there's something to be said for competition in a Republican primary, just as I think Kamala Harris would have benefited from some competition among Democrats in 2024. I think that whoever the presumptive Republican nominee is would fare better if they had to debate and have some of those --
[06:40:03]
CORNISH: Yes. Although she sewed it up because she had the ability and network to do that. She could hop on the phone and do all that. And that does make me think about Rubio versus Vance, who has the operational talent behind them to do something?
WILLIAMS: The interesting thing about that video that struck me was, there's Reagan in it, and there's Trump in it.
CORNISH: Yes.
WILLIAMS: Being all things to all people within the coalition. And that's somewhat what their nominee has to be in 2028. It reminds me, honestly, of Obama in 2008, having to speak to both progressives and the sort of white moderates in the Midwest.
CORNISH: Yes, but --
WILLIAMS: He won them both, right?
CORNISH: What's interesting, it isn't like, I'm doing great in Iran.
WILLIAMS: Oh, yes.
CORNISH: And also, I'm ready for Cuba. You know what I mean? Like, he's not talking about the things that are actually under his umbrella. But here's the voter he might be appealing to.
Here is Alyssa Farah Griffin. You may know her from CNN. She also has a high-profile gig here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ALYSSA FARAH GRIFFIN, CO-HOST, "THE VIEW": Republicans are really, really zeroed in on what will likely be the Republican battle. J.D. Vance versus Marco Rubio.
And while Marco Rubio did not convince me there's a strategy on the war, I am reminded when he speaks what it sounds like to have somebody who has more than like 100 word vocabulary, somebody who's not talking about Hannibal Lecter and then weaving over here to, like, lord knows what.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: But he's (INAUDIBLE) Cyprus (ph). He's not (INAUDIBLE) himself (INAUDIBLE).
GRIFFIN: I think that every time Marco Rubio speaks, J.D. Vance is kind of in the fetal position because that is a much more formidable Republican candidate.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Noel thing -- you're like, fetal position. What did you --
KING: I just -- yes. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I -- Vance -- I think Vance thinks highly of himself and his abilities and his potential. I don't know that, you would know better than I do, I don't know that he's scared by Marco Rubio. I also don't know if you put them up against each other, that Vance comes out looking like a winner, in part because of some of the sort of scolding, smarminess that he's been exhibiting since President Trump --
CORNISH: Also, being vice president, by definition, sometimes puts you in a not ideal policy position.
KING: Well, yes.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
CORNISH: Like, yes, Vance went to a peace talk, but he didn't come out with peace.
KING: That's right.
CORNISH: And now he's scandal hunting somewhere while Rubio is shaking hands with the pope, giving him a glass football. We'll talk about that later.
KING: Yes.
CORNISH: But, like, it feels like he's not got a portfolio right now. He's got a portfolio for the primary, not the general.
BLUEY: Well, and as you indicated, look at how many national security issues have dominated the second term of President Trump. And it's just elevated --
CORNISH: Yes. And Rubio has 10 jobs.
BLUEY: Yes, exactly. It's elevated Rubio to a position where he just gets more airtime and more international exposure than certainly the vice president does right now.
CORNISH: He does get it, however, with those key voting constituencies, right, through TP USA, et cetera.
BLUEY: He does. Yes.
KING: Yes.
CORNISH: So, we're keeping an eye on it. We're not too soon. OK. I promise. People are talking about this.
Next on CNN THIS MORNING, there is a major fight over race and redistricting. Republicans in Tennessee, they hopped on redrawing those maps. And there are some voters who are saying it could weaken the power of black residents.
Plus, later on CNN, even behind bars, Ghislaine Maxwell is surrounded by controversy. Why fellow inmates are turning on Jeffrey Epstein's longtime associate.
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[06:47:30]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STATE REP. GLORIA JOHNSON (D), KNOXVILLE, TENNESSEE: This is not a special session. This is a white power rally and a white power grab.
STATE REP. JUSTIN J. PEARSON (D), MEMPHIS, TENNESSEE: These maps are racist tools of white supremacy at the behest of the most powerful white supremacists in the United States of America, Donald J. Trump.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is about trying to dilute the black vote.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: All right. We're going to talk more about this. This is how Tennessee lawmakers, some of them at least, are describing the new congressional map heading to the governor's desk this morning. So, it carves up the majority black district in Memphis, reshaping it to the GOP's advantage.
(VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: I'm going to put up that map again so you can see the change that's happening. This new map passed as protesters in the galleries and hallways were chanting.
Congressman Steve Cohen, who actually represents that little blue corner there, that's a district that's about to be eliminated, and he said this to CNN last night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. STEVE COHEN (D-TN): This seat is an African American majority seat. It's elected -- it's elected me. And it shows the African American population votes on issues, and they choose the candidate of their choice. It's a beautiful example of how America can work, races working together and having a good democratic process. And they totally tore it asunder.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: So, you've been hearing a lot about all these states and the redistricting issue, but Tennessee is the first state to pass a new map since the Supreme Court ruling last week. The others are in the works. Alabama, South Carolina, they've taken some steps. Louisiana actually postponed their primary election where voting had already started.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I went in to vote and then I saw a sign that said, if you will vote for a particular district that your vote does not count. How are they gonna uncount my vote and how are they gonna delete it or void it?
REP. CLEO FIELDS (D), LOUISIANA: No one knows whether or not your vote will count or not yet.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: We're bringing in Democratic Congressman James Walkinshaw of Virginia to the group chat.
I just need to deal with that question from a voter, which is amazing, which is, I'm going to vote, and I'm not even sure if my vote will count. And the reply was, yes, we're not either.
What are you all saying? What do Democrats say in the moment to voters who have concerns?
REP. JAMES WALKINSHAW (D-VA): Yes. I mean what's taking place in Louisiana is an outrageous assault on democracy.
[06:50:03]
I mean the fact that the election was taking place, people were voting, and the Republicans in that state stopped it because they didn't like the direction it was going. Every single American, Republican, Democrat and independent should be outraged about it. So that's one thing we're saying.
I think the other thing is, like, look, if you look at this redistricting that's taking place across the south now, where it's a grab based on race and power, Republicans are going to come to regret it because, in advance of the 2028 election cycle, there's a lot more blue states that can go back and redistrict again. We can have a west coast where there's not a single Republican district. That can be done. I don't think that's good for the country. It'd be much better off if we join hands and end this redistricting war and ban partizan gerrymandering. But clearly that's not the direction Republican- controlled states are going.
CORNISH: Can I come to you really quickly?
WILLIAMS: Yes.
CORNISH: Because I feel like people don't fully understand that when the Supreme Court made this ruling, it wasn't just saying, you can devalue race as an issue in doing maps.
WILLIAMS: Right.
CORNISH: That that isn't right. They also, to my reading, elevated partisanship.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
CORNISH: But I don't know if that's how the legal community sees it.
WILLIAMS: Well, the law -- absolutely, Audie. The law allows redistricting based on partisanship. What you -- where you run into challenges is places in the country in which there's almost a one to one ratio between race and political leaning, right? And so, you can say we --
CORNISH: Like the south.
WILLIAMS: Like the deep south.
CORNISH: Which is why the Voting Rights Act exists.
WILLIAMS: And that -- I'll take -- I'll take it a step further. If you track where cotton was grown 200 years ago, now literally that's --
CORNISH: Yes, the black belt.
WILLIAMS: The black belt. That's literally where the black or at least heavily Democratic districts are. So, you can say we are merely consolidating Republican districts in the south, but what you are doing in practice is consolidating out (INAUDIBLE).
CORNISH: But what I'm saying is, when you say that, it is now legal to say that.
WILLIAMS: Yes, absolutely.
CORNISH: If someone takes you to court and you say, look, we're doing this for partizan advantage, that's kosher, that's legally it.
WILLIAMS: That's kosher. And because that's often happening in state legislatures, it's very hard to, when you sue, get the information about the discussions that were happening, about why they were choosing to, because their legislative bodies, as you know very well from Congress, you often don't have access to the papers of members of Congress or members of state legislatures. So, it's sort of this continuing cycle of, someone can play with funny business when they're redistricting -- CORNISH: Yes.
WILLIAMS: But you can't really sue them for it so they can do what (INAUDIBLE).
CORNISH: Let me just play a Tennessee Republican so you can hear sort of what they're thinking.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN STEVEN (R), TENNESSEE STATE SENATE: The maps were drawn to maximize the potential Republican partisan advantage by winning, and having a chance, an opportunity to win all nine congressional districts for the Republican Party.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Solved (ph).
BLUEY: Well, I would argue that it's no different than what Abigail Spanberger and Gavin Newsom said in Virginia and California, because they were, obviously, trying to maximize the Democrats' advantage, too.
And I agree with you, Congressman. I do think the path that we're headed down is not one that's probably good for the country. You're going to end up in a situation where primary elections for the Republican Party and Democratic Party are the only elections that really matter because there are so few competitive districts in the U.S. --
CORNISH: Or don't because the districts have been drawn in such a manner.
BLUEY: Yes, but what I mean, Audie, is that you'll either -- you -- that's where the choice will be made about who the ultimate winner of the election is, because it's not going to be between a Republican and the Democrat necessarily.
CORNISH: Yes.
BLUEY: It's going to be between a conservative or a moderate Republican, or vice versa with Democrats.
WALKINSHAW: Yes, I think it's important to note, you mentioned California and Virginia. A big difference is, Gavin Newsom and Abigail Spanberger didn't decide on the maps in California and Virginia, the voters of California and Virginia decided to redraw the maps. Big difference between that and what we just saw happen in Tennessee.
I think with respect to the Supreme Court decision, I think it's important to note, you know, they're saying there, you have to prove intent now.
CORNISH: Yes. WALKINSHAW: Look, I'm from the Commonwealth of Virginia. I live very close to the Fairfax County Courthouse. And from roughly 1904 until the 1960s, if you were black and you wanted to vote at that courthouse, you had to do a poll tax, pay a poll tax, or perform a literacy test. And they said, it's not about race, right? There's no racist intent here. We just have some standards for everyone who votes. The Supreme Court's basically saying the same thing. It's a return to Jim Crow in terms of how we draw districts.
CORNISH: I just want to bring up one other thing I've been thinking about. You know, there's been an exodus of black Republicans from Congress. And one of the things that these black districts were supposed to do is kind of compensate for the fact that white voters did not vote for non-white candidates, right?
KING: Yes.
CORNISH: It wasn't just, black voters should get their own person. It was like, white voters don't vote for non-white candidates. This was supposed to allow for some diversity within our governing class. And there's something about this tipping point moment where Republicans, in a way, might be shutting the door on a world of candidates because they're going to make it so that they -- I don't know, maybe their voters will surprise us.
[06:55:02]
But right now it's not --
KING: Yes. And I think when we keep -- we keep thinking we're past --
CORNISH: Yes.
KING: This is the great -- this is the great conundrum in America. We keep thinking we're past this. We're at a point where white voters will vote for a black candidate. Surely it's 2026. That's what we'll see. And then, I don't know.
CORNISH: Yes.
KING: It's never that simple.
CORNISH: We're about to find out because all those guys want to run for governor, et cetera.
KING: They sure are. Yes.
CORNISH: So, we'll see what happens.
I want to ask you something very quickly, which is that, you were in, I think, the Howard Lutnick Oversight Committee thing.
WALKINSHAW: Yes.
CORNISH: First of all, the whole, you're under -- you're not under oath, but you're here. WALKINSHAW: Right.
CORNISH: I don't know the value of that. Also, people then get to come out and kind of say whatever they want.
I want to play for you one of your colleagues, Ro Khanna, and a Republican, after they came out of that meeting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. RO KHANNA (D-CA): If Donald Trump had seen the video transcript, he would have fired Howard Lutnick. It was really embarrassing.
REP. JAMES COMER (R-KY): I feel compelled to have to come out and clean up and correct some of the statements that the Democrats made. I couldn't believe, as I was getting updates of what they were saying. And I hope that when you get the transcripts, you fact check them on what they say. This is a habit of the Democrats on this committee coming out telling you all stuff that was said, that was not said.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: Congressman Walkinshaw, can you respond to that?
WALKINSHAW: Well, here's what Chairman Comer and the Democrats agree on. Chairman Comer said, even before the transcribed interview, that Howard Lutnick had not been -- I think the word he used was completely or 100 percent truthful with the American people. Now, that's a euphemism for a lie. I say it quite clearly, Howard Lutnick lied to the American people when he said he'd never been in a room, or had only been in a room once with Jeffrey Epstein. And that's what we learned in the transcribed interview. Howard Lutnick painfully, awkwardly, embarrassingly tried to dissemble and explain his lie to the American people. He attempted to redefine the meaning of the word I. He said, when I said I wasn't going to be in a room with Jeffrey Epstein, I meant only I wouldn't be in a room one on one with him. So, I was OK bringing my wife and family to eat lunch with him.
CORNISH: Yes.
WALKINSHAW: It was nonsensical. And I agree with Ro, if Donald Trump saw a video, if a video existed, he would fire Howard Lutnick. Because what Trump doesn't like is someone who represents him looking like they are ridiculous. And that's how it Lutnick looked.
CORNISH: Well, I hope you're back, because I hear Pam Bondi is going to get the same treatment going to talk.
WALKINSHAW: Well, we're pushing for Bondi to be on video.
CORNISH: OK.
WALKINSHAW: The American people deserve to see it. That'll be up to Chairman Comer.
CORNISH: OK, I have some serious, serious news for you. I want you to stick around because this is when we lawyer up.
WALKINSHAW: OK.
WILLIAMS: Oh, yes.
CORNISH: With Elliot Williams. You can see that we're lawyering up there.
WILLIAMS: We are.
CORNISH: OK. So, you are bringing me a video --
WILLIAMS: Yes.
CORNISH: From the FBI director?
WILLIAMS: Yes.
CORNISH: Tell me.
WILLIAMS: It looks strangely like the Beastie Boys video for the song "Sabotage."
CORNISH: Right.
WILLIAMS: And you can almost look frame by frame.
Now, the issue is --
CORNISH: Wait, do people want to see a clip of it?
WILLIAMS: Sure.
CORNISH: Can we show a little bit of it?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The FBI continues its relentless crackdown on fraud.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The FBI cracking down on a massive --
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CORNISH: I hear -- I hear the "Sabotage."
WILLIAMS: You hear the song. And that's actually a lot of the video.
CORNISH: Yes.
WILLIAMS: Now, it's believed that they used A.I. for a lot of it. If you looked at that Ford in the front, the grille of the car is sort of messy, suggests --
CORNISH: They didn't hire a bunch of off duty FBI guys to --
WILLIAMS: No, they didn't.
CORNISH: OK.
WILLIAMS: Now, the problem is that when the government appropriates your image, you are a copyrighted work. You can't sue them for an injunction. You can really only sue them for damages. So, they can't, they won't, and they don't stop using that image because of the fact that the law really allows it. In many respects, they have a license to illegally appropriate the copyrighted works of individuals.
CORNISH: And then on top of that, we can't verify if this is A.I.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
CORNISH: This is the joy of reporting in the age of A.I. We can't verify if this is -- what part of this is A.I. and what's not. The Beasties have not released a statement.
WILLIAMS: No.
CORNISH: And nor has Kash Patel.
WALKINSHAW: I think "Sabotage" is appropriate. That's what Kash Patel has done to the FBI.
CORNISH: I see what you did there. I see what you did there.
WALKINSHAW: I'm not going to use the right -- they got the right song.
CORNISH: But you run an office. In the edge -- in the age where everybody is always having to post some cool little digital thing, do you also feel pressure to put out these little fun, blah, blah, blah that -- and that A.I. would make that easy to do?
WALKINSHAW: I mean, look, I try to put out things that, you know, feel real for me and are -- like feel authentic. So, I tend to avoid the -- the, like, funny, cute videos. I maybe have a couple, but it's hard for me to pull off, you know.
WILLIAMS: You got to fight for your right to do that, though.
WALKINSHAW: Yes. Yes.
WILLIAMS: I mean you really have -- I mean it's right there on the computer. You --
WALKINSHAW: Yes. Yes. I would definitely need A.I. to pull that off though.
WILLIAMS: Yes.
CORNISH: Yes. Yes, it would.
WILLIAMS: Because he's been rocking that seriousness eight days a week. So --
WALKINSHAW: Oh, wow.
CORNISH: That's right, folks, he's here -- he's here all week. Tip your waitress.
Elliot Williams, Congressman Walkinshaw, thank you for being here. Rob Bluey, and, of course, one of my favorite podcasters around, Noel King at Vox, thank you so much.
[07:00:06]
And thank you for being here with us this week. There are a ton of places where you can spend your time. I can't believe it, but I love it that you are spending it with us. We've got a lot of complicated and, you know, it's a lot, the news, but we've got those headlines for you. They're coming up next. I'm Audie Cornish. So, stay with us.
