Return to Transcripts main page

CNN This Morning

IFRC Spokesperson Tommaso Della Longa is Interviewed about the Earthquakes in Venezuela; Michigan State Senator Mallory McMorrow is Interviewed about Democratic Socialists Beating Moderates; Trump's Obsession with Obama. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired June 25, 2026 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

MIKE DUBKE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: In right now.

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: OK.

DUBKE: So, we're arguing over shades of blue.

CORNISH: Now, counterpoint on recent history. There is a political graveyard of Republicans, moderate, Bush era, a certain kind of Republican who appeals to the middle. They live in the green rooms of cable news and not in the voting booth. That part of the party is toast because they ignored a movement like this. Because they let it metastasize until they had a candidate who represented it.

DUBKE: And I --

CORNISH: So, this is the history I'm going back to, just 2014, 2016, 2018. And that's what I'm kind of asking here. How do you harness an energy instead of, honestly, shooting the tires out of your car trying to run it over?

MEGHAN HAYS, FORMER BIDEN WHITE HOUSE DIRECTOR OF MESSAGE PLANNING: It's really hard. It's also hard for people to understand how government works and how you have to operate. Campaigning is a lot easier than actually governing.

CORNISH: No, they do, they just don't like it.

HAYS: That's fine, but that's -- but also Mamdani has also abandoned some of his policies that he was running on, the free grocery stores, the free busses. Some of these things that these people are running on in New York will never get passed in Congress because they're one --

CORNISH: So has Trump, right?

HAYS: Exactly. But that's exactly the point.

CORNISH: But he is in office.

HAYS: And you will be in office and they'll get nothing done. And you see now how we are getting nothing done. Governing is actually harder than campaigning.

DUBKE: Yes.

HAYS: And you have to be able to work together, and you have to be moderate, because that is what actually gets things passed. You have to be able to agree and compromise.

CORNISH: And I am not a person who believes that the mayor of New York is a litmus test for all things, right? You can ask Bloomberg. You can ask Giuliani. It is not necessarily a path to the White House. Many have tried.

But it is a path to prominence and a kind of leadership role in the party. And as more and more specifically cities turn in this direction, I'm just trying to figure out how that's going to work, because the DNC has people who are not so exciting to listen to talk, and everyone's mad at them.

HAYS: Absolutely.

SABRINA RODRIGUEZ, POLITICS REPORTER, "THE WALL STREET JOURNAL": Well, but I do think as we still see -- for -- I mean, of course, Republicans do not like Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, and there's plenty of criticism of her and that, you know, her framed as being very extremist. But we've even seen it in her own political journey where she was elected in 2018. It was like, oh my God, this change coming to the party. And we've seen --

CORNISH: Yes, protesting Pelosi's office. Yes.

RODRIGUEZ: And we've seen it in many ways, the ways that she herself has moderated her own political ambitions, her own way of maneuvering in politics. Notably, she didn't endorse in these congressional races despite her having certain alignments with Mamdani and certain alignment with these candidates.

CORNISH: And you pointed out even her connection with the Democratic Socialists of America.

RODRIGUEZ: Yes. They rescinded their national endorsement of her over the way that she's handled the situation with Israel. And I think we see, you know, more and more, in this cycle, the person that she did an endorsement video for was Tish James, the attorney general of New York, who you'd consider to be more on the establishment side of the Democratic Party, a very popular establishment Democrat, but is not that DSA, is not that Democratic socialist candidate.

So, I think sometimes, even when you get into power, it moderates you in the process.

HAYS: Because you realize you have to get things done.

DUBKE: Well, you have to get things done. And then when you want more power and more national power, you have to moderate in order to appeal to more than just these very small --

CORNISH: Is that what you learned in Trump one White House?

DUBKE: Which part of what I just said?

CORNISH: Moderating once you get in office. We literally just talked about the guy kicking a housing bill to the curb because he couldn't get his more extreme version of a voting rights bill. Like --

DUBKE: We talked about kicking a housing bill to the curb that is going to --

CORNISH: What's moderate about Trump now?

DUBKE: That is going to pass anyway. He didn't kick --

CORNISH: Not due to him.

DUBKE: No, my --

CORNISH: You're implying that once you start governing, you become more moderate.

DUBKE: No, I --

CORNISH: I'm arguing that the left --

DUBKE: No, no, no, no, no. No.

CORNISH: Looks at Trump and they don't see that.

DUBKE: No, it absolutely --

CORNISH: And they want one of their own.

DUBKE: You've got me absolutely wrong.

CORNISH: Tell me.

DUBKE: I'm making the argument that when you campaign on being an extremist on either the far left or the far right, but you want to gain in national prominence, you tend to moderate. I'm going back to the AOC example. That has nothing to do with governing. That has everything to do with what your national ambitions are. And that's what -- that was the point that I was trying to make.

CORNISH: But did Trump moderate?

DUBKE: Trump started at the top.

CORNISH: So, he didn't have to? Help me understand.

DUBKE: No, no, no. He --

CORNISH: Did Trump moderate once he started governing?

DUBKE: In many ways, yes. In many ways, a lot of what he has put forward has not become -- has not become law. A lot of the things that he talked about --

CORNISH: Of his own volition or courts and other lawmakers?

DUBKE: Well, both. Both.

CORNISH: OK, we're going to come back to this.

DUBKE: I mean --

CORNISH: No, no, let me pause. We have actual -- an actual moderate who has to run in a race in Michigan. And we're going to ask them questions directly. Mike and I will have it out during the break.

I want to turn to this because there is this very serious breaking news that is still happening. Back-to-back earthquakes in Venezuela. These are the largest in a century. And now there are some rescuers who are searching for survivors. So, we're going to be tracking that breaking news next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:39:24]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CORNISH: All right, we're continuing to follow this breaking news out of Venezuela. At this point, the death toll is climbing. Right now we know 164 people at least are dead. This is after two earthquakes. According to Venezuela's interim president, more than 900 reported injured. Rescues are still underway. So, after the duel earthquakes, one of the strongest in more than a century, crews are digging through the rubble, searching for survivors.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE (through translator): I leaned out onto the balcony, screaming, we're trapped!

[06:40:02]

We need help! Please, someone come! We didn't realize there were two aftershocks back-to-back. We thought it had lasted a minute. Maybe a minute and a half. But it felt endless.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Right now, we're talking to Tommaso Della Longa, IFRC spokesperson.

Thank you so much for being here, as this is all still unfolding.

So, we were learning that the first quake was a 7.2, the second a 7.5. Is there a threat of aftershocks still being discussed?

TOMMASO DELLA LONGA, SPOKESPERSON, INTERNATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE RED CROSS: First of all, thanks a lot for having me today. Well, of course, aftershocks are always a risk. I would say that has

already happened after the two powerful earthquakes. They were several aftershocks. And of course, these can affect heavily both the search and rescue operation, but also the safety of people who are in the areas affected.

CORNISH: What is the state of play for your organization right now in terms of supporting rescue efforts?

LONGA: Yes, I mean, we are working through the IFRC delegation in Caracas and the Venezuelan Red Cross. Our teams are supporting search and rescue operations. But also through the network of hospitals, clinics and mobile clinics so that Venezuelan Red Cross, they're giving air support to the people in the areas affected.

And we're looking at mental health, which is very important since the first moments after the earthquake and already looking at the next step. We know that priorities after the window of search and rescue will be shelter, but also water, food, all the essentials. And this is why the IFRC has already mobilized two million (INAUDIBLE), which is almost 2 million U.S. dollars, to support the local efforts who are leading the emergency response.

CORNISH: We've been hearing earlier about how the infrastructure in and around these sections of Venezuela is older, and that it may not have been really earthquake ready or be able to deal with these shocks. What is the state of, say, hospitals or some of these areas that would be actually helping in a rescue situation?

LONGA: Well, the situation is very -- is very complicated. I mean, we know even the Red Cross of (INAUDIBLE) has been affected and several others, public building, (INAUDIBLE) infrastructure. I mean, even looking at the airport of Caracas has been affected. So, from one side, we know that the country, of course, had several -- have had several challenges in the past. But on the other side, we also need to take into account that these two powerful earthquakes, most probably one of the power -- most powerful in the last century, would have heavily affected every country in the world.

And now the real question is when we'll get a proper picture and a proper assessment in the next coming hours is how we'll be able, through the logistics, to bring the aid needed, not only in the capital, but also in the most remote areas that may be hard to reach, even for rubles in the streets, and issue to all the logistic infrastructure.

CORNISH: Is this government prepared to do that? We know it's an interim government right now, as Maduro is facing charges in the U.S. We know that there is now a U.S. embassy and that there may be diplomatic support. Is Rodriguez and her government in a position to help?

LONGA: Well, as Red Cross, we are not really entering in a -- in a political debate or in a judgment on authorities (ph). What I can tell you, though, is that the Venezuelan Red Cross, with the support of the IFRC, is supporting local and national authorities in all the efforts. The reality here is that we are looking at a team effort after such a massive devastation across the country, and everyone needs to do it's own -- it's own part.

And our part is to support the authorities and all the other organizations to make sure that people who are at the moment under the rubble are saved. And we know by experience that the window is very short. But on the other side, also to put in safety, all the other people who are alive. And we are also looking at something that is not really a sprint. It will be like a marathon. And the -- so it needs and solidarity to the people in Venezuela will need to have the support of the international community for -- not only for the weeks, but the months to come.

CORNISH: That's Tommaso Della Longa, spokesperson for the International Federation of the Red Cross.

Thank you.

And stay with us. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:48:46]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Democrats want to win the majority against MAGA Republicans and Donald Trump. And that takes building unity across a diverse party.

It has to be built from listening to the lessons that voters are giving us. And to me, those lessons are pretty clear. And they're good Democratic messages.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: OK, establishment Democrats on notice after this week's socialist sweep. All three of Zohran Mamdani's backed Democratic socialist candidates won their primaries Tuesday night in New York. But does that mean socialists are going to maybe take over the way MAGA did on the right?

Well, Letitia James, who split from Mamdani and backed a moderate, told CNN, quote, "all of us are a little frustrated with the Democratic Party, but you don't blow it up. That's what MAGA has done."

Now, New York's mayor is putting the focus back on issues.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR ZOHRAN MAMDANI (D), NEW YORK CITY: What you will see, whether it's a vision on making health care more affordable and making housing more affordable, or on a vision as Nadia Alyssa (ph) often talks about, of investing in babies, not bombs, is the kind of conscience, the kind of clarity, the kind of conviction that has been missing in our politics for far too long. And I cannot wait to work with them on accomplishing that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Joining me now, Democratic Party Senate candidate in Michigan, State Senator Mallory McMorrow.

[06:50:04]

Welcome to the program. Thank you for being here.

I believe at least you consider yourself a moderate Democrat. We heard on the panel today Democratic socialists are not Democrats. Are you frustrated with this debate?

MALLORY MCMORROW (D), MICHIGAN STATE SENATOR: Well, what's clear across the country is that voters are demanding change. The status quo is fundamentally broken. And in a state like Michigan, people simply don't think of themselves in lanes. We are a state where you don't have to register by party. We have open primaries. There are people here in Michigan who voted for Republican Governor Rick Snyder and Democratic Governor Gretchen Whitmer, who voted for Donald Trump and for Bernie Sanders.

People want a fighter. Somebody who knows how to build real power, not just to fight with rhetoric, but deliver actual results. And that is what I'm offering to voters.

CORNISH: There has been a lot of support on the left for Abdul El- Sayed. He's been endorsed by Hasan Piker, who has millions of followers on social media, mainly people under the age of 30. I mention this because he is a very controversial figure. And in March you compared him to white supremacist Nick Fuentes.

Now, Piker spoke to Detroit Public Radio about that yesterday. I want you to take a listen and respond.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

HASAN PIKER, POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: There's so much diversity of choice in where people can get their news from. So, people can come to me directly and figure out what I'm actually about. So, that was one of the reasons why that smear campaign failed spectacularly.

People started looking at Abdul's campaign, people started hearing what he was saying, and they liked it. And lo and behold, he was in third place before this smear campaign started. And now he's comfortably in first place.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: I want to give you a chance to respond to that.

MCMORROW: Certainly. There's a responsibility for whoever we nominate as our next U.S. senator to recognize, we have to build and expand a big tent. My opponent made a decision to bring in Hasan shortly after there was an attack on a synagogue here in Michigan where a man drove a pickup truck into a synagogue where 140 preschoolers were at school that day. And had it not been for the security measures, the bollards in place, it could have been the largest mass killing of kids in this country's history. And to bring somebody in to represent your campaign, in my mind, is a very different decision than going on somebody's stream and talking to their audience.

I believe in freedom of speech. People should be able to say and do whatever they want. But we have a very diverse population here in Michigan. We have the largest Arab American population in the country, alongside a very significant Jewish population. And we need to keep everybody together, not just to win, but to govern and to represent this state appropriately.

CORNISH: I want to ask another question about maintaining support. Hearing reporting about you having very soft numbers with black voters. Hearing you have very low numbers overall. And the chatter is growing louder that you should drop out. That you are a spoiler candidate. Will you drop out?

MCMORROW: The polling has been all over the place. Here's what I can tell you. We are being presented right now with what I believe is a false, binary choice. That either we have to accept the status quo in Haley Stevens, a member of Congress who's taken tens of thousands of dollars in corporate PAC donations, who hasn't done any public events. She's not meeting with people. She's not taking tough questions. Or --

CORNISH: But she has been on debates and on the debate stage. So, people have been able to look at the three of you side by side. And right now, you're the one coming up short.

MCMORROW: Certainly. I hear you. And on the other side, we've got a candidate who has never won a campaign before. In the last quarter, I outraised the congresswoman by $1 million with no corporate PAC donations. I've got more grassroots support than my opponents combined. We are out there every single day with our message that we don't have to accept an either or. That we can have both.

I am the only candidate in the race who's won tough elections. I helped flip the entire state senate to Democrats for the first time in 40 years. And as majority whip, I've delivered on health care, housing, civil rights, voting rights. You name it, we've done it.

CORNISH: Yes. Well, Mallory McMorrow, thank you for being here. I also want to let our viewers know, we've extended invitations to the other candidates running for Senate in that race.

I want to turn to national politics for a moment. I made a joke last week that, like Obama lives rent free in Trump's head. And other people are asking this question as well, including Obama.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BARACK OBAMA, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I mean, the thing about it is, look, you got to ask him what it is that --

[06:55:01] UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The obsession?

OBAMA: The obsession.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I know what it is.

OBAMA: I, you know, what -- I, obviously, you know, have a room in his head.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Rent free. You do everything with grace.

OBAMA: A suite in his -- in his head.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: All right, so President Trump has spent a good amount of time dismantling the legacy of the Obama and Biden eras. That included ripping up the Iran nuclear deal. Then to today, the renovation of the Reflecting Pool, and repeated attempts to repeal the Affordable Care Act.

In a CNN analysis from his first term in 2019, we found President Trump mentioned Obama's name 537 times, an average of just under twice a day.

I want to take this to the group chat.

Since we were talking about Trump one era, I didn't know who -- who's counting. But --

DUBKE: I don't know where those statistics come from.

CORNISH: Yes, I'm sort of curious.

DUBKE: Is -- that's Wikipedia or if that's something else, but --

CORNISH: No, no, we did an analysis. So, someone spent time counting that.

DUBKE: Oh, that's good.

CORNISH: But I want to ask --

DUBKE: I'm glad A.I. is useful for something.

CORNISH: For someone.

I think that we're in a time -- oh, Trump was elected in part to dismantle --

DUBKE: Yes.

CORNISH: Obama legacy. So, that part makes sense to me.

DUBKE: And he directly followed Obama in Trump 1.0.

CORNISH: Yes.

DUBKE: And we need to remember that.

CORNISH: So it's now where it's like, why are you still talking about this?

DUBKE: I think it's timing. And what I -- Donald Trump works best, I think, when he has a foil. And his foil for years was Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden. And now, with the unveiling of the Obama library and all of the talk about JCPOA, given the situation we're in, in Iran, it is, I think, pretty clear that Obama is the topic of conversation and the new foil, because Hillary Clinton isn't much of a player anymore.

CORNISH: Because there isn't another option?

DUBKE: And Joe Biden --

CORNISH: Yes.

DUBKE: Exactly right.

CORNISH: OK.

DUBKE: And so, I think this is less rent free --

CORNISH: I feel like you should answer that, Meghan. Is there really no other option?

HAYS: I mean, I think that option would be to just be a better president. I think he's just jealous that these things are --

DUBKE: Well --

HAYS: The JCPOA is far significantly better than what we're getting now.

DUBKE: It is not.

HAYS: But -- OK.

DUBKE: We can argue about there was something about ballistic missiles in there.

HAYS: OK, but let me -- let me finish in this.

DUBKE: OK. I'm sorry, I brought policy into that.

HAYS: But then the -- all the -- all the legacy building that he's trying to do. I mean it's just -- nobody is going to think of Donald Trump the same way they think of Barack Obama or even Hillary Clinton for that fact or Joe Biden. So, I just think that that's his whole shtick here. He wants to have this relevance in the American people's lives forever and he's not. He's not going to be on Post Offices. He's not going to be on schools. He's done horrible things to our country. And the majority of the people understand that. And he's trying to -- CORNISH: Well, it has been interesting to hear Obama come back on the scene using the library as a moment to do things. He hasn't really done that much, which is like comment on the Trump era in general.

RODRIGUEZ: I mean, he's still certainly like -- former President Obama is still very strategic in the way he talks about it.

CORNISH: Yes.

RODRIGUEZ: And he, like, tries not to get too much into name dropping Trump directly and all of that. And I think he's clearly chosen his shots when he comes out onto the scene and is talking about politics and the Trump era.

But I think for Trump, I mean, it goes back to like, the president likes to play his greatest hits. He knows what worked on the campaign trail. He's thinking about the MAGA audience. He's thinking about the Republican base who likes to hear the slamming.

CORNISH: But it feels like ever since that joke at that White House Correspondents Dinner by Obama at Trump's expense, I have watched this Donald Trump pretty much be obsessed with this.

DUBKE: Well, see you basically -- with that belief, Barack Obama brought Donald Trump to America.

HAYS: It's obsessed with (INAUDIBLE).

CORNISH: The -- yes, to --

DUBKE: If you follow your line of thinking on it.

CORNISH: To America?

HAYS: So, that -- but that's -- but I'm like --

DUBKE: Well, to the presidency, yes.

HAYS: But Donald Trump was asking for his birth certificate.

DUBKE: It drove him.

HAYS: I mean, like this is all -- it's just -- Donald Trump wants to be relevant and he wants to stay relevant, but he doesn't have the policies that are impacting the American people to stay relevant. Barack Obama did. And it's (INAUDIBLE).

DUBKE: We're saying two very different things. I, you know, look, the president works well with a foil. Right now Barack Obama is the perfect foil in the spring, late, early summer of 2026.

CORNISH: Yes. Well, there are new -- there are new foils coming up.

DUBKE: Very new, yes.

CORNISH: Like the young people who are voting.

DUBKE: The young and the clueless are going to be a new foil.

CORNISH: Being accused of being socialists.

Sabrina, I want to give you a chance to speak on this day. What is in your group chat?

RODRIGUEZ: Hillary Duff.

CORNISH: Oh, cute.

RODRIGUEZ: My girl is back. She's just --

CORNISH: She is. She is -- no, she's living her best life.

RODRIGUEZ: Her tour just started this week. I may or may not have bought tickets with my best friend to go and see her in August. But I just think it's like this moment of nostalgia that you see with her, like, coming out and she's playing her greatest hits.

CORNISH: Is that elder millennial, millennial? I'm not trying to age you. I'm generally wondering.

RODRIGUEZ: I'm like squarely mid millennial, I think.

CORNISH: Got it. Got it.

RODRIGUEZ: So, love her. Love Lizzie McGuire. Love the comeback.

CORNISH: But also we're hearing all the gos, because she's like talking about her family relationships.

RODRIGUEZ: Yes. All the ex's and the drama.

CORNISH: She was in the toxic mom group chat.

RODRIGUEZ: Very here for it.

CORNISH: Which is not like this group chat. This is a healthy, friendly group chat where people come together and connect over the stories of the day.

DUBKE: Of course (INAUDIBLE).

CORNISH: I want to thank you for being with us. It's a quite serious news day as we're reporting on this earthquake in Venezuela.

[07:00:05]

We have more details coming up on that. We have reporters in neighboring Colombia and Bogota. We are hearing from the Red Cross, and we're hoping to hear from Delcy Rodriguez, the interim leader of Venezuela, where right now the death toll does continue to climb and even the number of injured is up.

I'm Audie Cornish. The headlines are next.