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Mexico Seeks investigation of Migrant Deaths; Maggie Haberman is Interviewed about Her Book on Trump; Victor Marx Wins Primary in Colorado. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired July 10, 2026 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

LULU GARCIA-NAVARRO, CNN CONTRIBUTOR: I don't -- are you filming me you're your Meta glasses? I don't want to be filmed.

ARI SHAPIRO, CO-HOST, "ENGAGEMENT PARTY" PODCAST: Did he admit it?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: No. It was just like this incredibly awkward interaction where he just, like, kind of glared at me, took off his glasses, and, you know, it was just this very weird -- as a, you know, we gotcha.

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Yes. Like, I'm not filming you, but I'm taking these off. Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes. And so the whole thing was just really uncomfortable. And I don't, you know, and I don't know what the social interactions are. I put -- I posted this on social media. I got all these responses basically saying, it's legal to film people in most states, which I think you can speak to.

ELLIOT WILLIAMS, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes.

CORNISH: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: So, suck it up.

CORNISH: What's the deal? What can we do?

WILLIAMS: It really is legal to film people in most states. Think about every time you go to a monument or a park, you see someone out with their cell phone. Well, they're filming you too. You're incidentally in the camera.

Now, it gets trickier where you are recording one person. Some states you have to -- both people have to know that they're being -- that someone's being recorded.

CORNISH: Yes.

WILLIAMS: Some states you can just record one person.

One interesting thing that Ari had said about Meta being sued or just taking fire over the years over its users privacy --

SHAPIRO: Especially for Instagram.

WILLIAMS: Especially for Instagram. Here -- this is interesting because it's not just users' privacy, it's third party's privacies. People like Lulu who are now at -- or anybody now at risk. It's not just the user who's getting pulled into this, right? And so, even if someone's not being filmed, there's just this specter of --

CORNISH: Yes.

WILLIAMS: At any point I might be filmed, I don't know if I'm being filmed, and that's deeply uncomfortable.

CORNISH: Yes.

WILLIAMS: To admit (ph) to people.

CORNISH: And we talked about the potential uses for this.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

CORNISH: In the accessibility community. People who are hard of hearing. People who have issues with their site. The information they'd be able to get in the glasses.

I'm pretty sure I can guess lawmakers -- law enforcement is going to be excited about this. So, there are uses for it. And it's interesting that the way they're marketing it though is like, hey girls, this is fun.

SHAPIRO: Oh, they've got this lineup of mega celebs. I mean they're spending, I think, $70 billion to promote and produce these.

CORNISH: Yes.

SHAPIRO: And they've got Teyana Taylor, Doja Cat, Kylie Jenner. Like, they are bringing out the all-stars to try to tell people that this is cool. I feel like it's part of Mark Zuckerberg's long campaign to convince people that he's cool. He wanted to be the Elon Musk pre- DOGE, and maybe his reputation is heading more in a direction of Elon Musk today.

CORNISH: Even if he's in the front row of Prada at the start of their relationship?

SHAPIRO: Yes, I'm not sure that that's a sign.

CORNISH: OK.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But it's all -- but at the end of the day, nobody really trusts Meta with their own personal safety online.

CORNISH: The data that's ours.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: The data that's ours. I mean right now there's a whole kerfuffle over Instagram. If you have a public facing Instagram page, Meta is now automatically opting you in to basically allowing your public Instagram page to be manipulated by A.I. You have to actually actively go in there, which I did yesterday, to change those settings. These are the kinds of actions that make people very upset.

CORNISH: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: CAA is getting involved in this, of course, the big Hollywood agency. These are issues that really come at the core of people's identity, their public facing profiles.

SHAPIRO: So, I think what we're seeing here, as I say in "Engagement Party," in our latest episode, is, number one, a failure of government to actually protect people's privacy and identity. But number two, a success of the people who are saying, you may be spending tens of billions of dollars to make this a thing, but we don't want it to be a thing.

CORNISH: Yes.

SHAPIRO: And the people have the final say.

CORNISH: What do the young say, it's propaganda they're unsubscribing from?

Ari Shapiro, thank you so much.

You can catch us on the newest episode of "Engagement Party" now. New episodes are out Friday. We talk about this and also the movement of FROYO. And so, it's a lot of fun.

Thanks so much, Ari.

All right, straight ahead on CNN THIS MORNING, we're going to turn to this news. The threats from Mexico to take the U.S. to court over the deaths of ICE detainees. And could a foreign government succeed where U.S. advocates have failed?

Plus, personality over substance. Voters getting candidates who are actually qualified for the job. Maybe. Maybe not.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:38:40]

CORNISH: So, the 52-year-old Mexican man killed by ICE in Houston this week was not the target of an immigration operation. That's according to a source. Texas authorities previously notified ICE about two people believed to be in the U.S. illegally, traveling in a white van. And neither of those men were the victim.

You're looking at video from the aftermath of the shooting. I have to warn you, it is disturbing because you can see a bloodied person on the ground. Now, there's no official footage of the shooting that has been released. Federal officials involved were not wearing body cameras. ICE claims the man attempted to take off as agents tried to pull him over. His family is pushing back on that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RONALDO SALGADO, SON OF ICE SHOOTING VICTIM: He did not know that those vehicles following him were ICE agents. Again, these vehicles were unmarked. They had no emblems, no logos, no flashing lights. There was no way for him to know that they were ICE agents. I know my dad would have stopped had ICE agents formally and clearly identified themselves, at least through their vehicle markings.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: In the meantime, Mexico, fed up with the deaths of its people on U.S. soil. Their president is seeking a criminal investigation in the U.S. related deaths of 17 Mexican nationals during immigration operations in recent months.

[06:40:01]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PRESIDENT CLAUDIA SHEINBAUM, MEXICO (through translator): What happened recently with the death of a Mexican in an ICE operation, not only is it sad and regrettable, but it seems to be targeted. So, obviously, we will maintain the diplomatic relationship. But we made the decision to file a formal complaint with the state and federal prosecutor's office of the United States against those who are found responsible for what we consider to be homicides.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: Mexico's foreign minister says the country will file criminal complaints directly with U.S. prosecutors.

The group chat is back.

And, Elliot, we need your expertise.

WILLIAMS: OK.

CORNISH: Because, in general, when you're looking at deaths of ICE detainees --

WILLIAMS: Yes.

CORNISH: Obviously there is a spike. As of 2025, that number up to 33. It's gone down a bit. And I think people thought maybe ICE had been operating differently, or at least more covertly on the streets of the U.S.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

CORNISH: You're shaking your head.

WILLIAMS: No. It's just covertly might be the word or just simply not in public in the same way. Now, the big picture governing all of this is that law enforcement has

tremendously broad latitude. And I think latitude that would shock and alarm many people, both in terms of deaths in custody, but also in terms of their conduct in the field.

Now, certainly, Mexico is free to try to, you know, engage prosecutors, file lawsuits or whatever else. I will note, you know, the Department of Homeland Security will be defended by the Justice Department in any federal suit in the United States right now. And I just think the likelihood of any of these suits really gaining traction --

CORNISH: Yes.

WILLIAMS: Just based on who the Justice Department is right now, they have an interest in protecting the Department of Homeland Security, is pretty low, but they can. That is their right.

But two other avenues. Really quick, Audie, two other avenues for proceeding, if they're serious. Number one, go to the states. Every state can entertain lawsuits, even against the federal government. You can have the attorney general or local prosecutor bring a lawsuit. But also Congress can oversee and step in if ICE is behaving in a manner that's not appropriate.

CORNISH: So, right now, ICE related Mexican national deaths in Trump's term, 14 people in ICE custody, three in ICE operations.

Sheinbaum had more or less kind of played nice with Trump when it came to tariffs, right, and when it came to the drug war. Why do you think, Lulu, that she is speaking out now and in such a specific way, using the phrase targeted?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes. This is always a hugely sensitive issue for Mexico. Let's not forget that, you know, Mexico has the largest number of immigrants in the United States, and they share a border. And so, the way that ICE and Border Patrol interact with that population has always been a source of enormous sensitivity and tension. And I think one of the reasons they're doing this is not only because they think they're going to get satisfaction, but it is to be perceived by their own people as doing something, as raising complaints, as trying to actively engage.

Because it's not only that the government is in this very difficult position with trying to appease Trump and work with him while also defending its population, but the people themselves do not like the Trump administration, do not like the way that this is playing out, and want their government to do something.

CORNISH: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And so, this is a way of them showing that they are.

CORNISH: And it raises the profile of ICE operations in a moment when they had effectively lowered the temperature after the mass protests in two separate cities, and deaths on the streets. TERRY SCHILLING, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN PRINCIPLES PROJECT: Yes. Well,

look, I -- my message to the president of Mexico, Claudia Sheinbaum, is, game on. You know, you want to sue over this. I guess we'll have to sue over the hundreds of thousands of young men and women in this country that have died from fentanyl overdoses or even the hundreds of people that have had violence inflicted on them that have been raped and sexually assaulted.

You know, Claudia Sheinbaum is one to talk. She was elected in a year where there were over 27 political assassinations in her party. She's literally a hand-picked candidate for the cartels. And again --

CORNISH: You've levied a lot of different things there.

SCHILLING: I have.

CORNISH: So, I want to hold on because I'm not fact checking you on that level, OK. But I do have this question about, is it fair for a country to say, you're killing our nationals on your street and that this is state sanctioned deaths, and therefore.

SCHILLING: Well, look, I noticed in that chart, in 2023 and 2024 there were -- I think in 2023 it said there were seven deaths by ICE and 11 deaths in 2024. That's when there was like no immigration enforcement at all. And it's only around 50 between these last two years. There it goes, 33 and 19 in two years. That's 52.

CORNISH: Yes.

SCHILLING: That's when we're actually deporting people and actually enforcing the law. So, it seems like there's some violence embedded into illegal immigration in the first place.

WILLIAMS: I -- well, no, no, no. I -- the only thing I will say to sort of push back on that gently is, and I worked at -- I was a senior official at ICE for five years. You're still talking about deporting 400,000 people a year, even under the low points of any administration's immigration enforcement efforts.

So, the idea that enforcement simply isn't happening, and those are, I believe we were talking about detention centers, people are detained, beds are full. It's just not accurate that no -- that no enforcement was happening.

[06:45:03]

Now, certainly we can agree, and I think we should, that more enforcement is happening now than happened in 2023. But I -- but I don't think that that -- those numbers are reflective of enforcement simply not happening in detention centers.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And it was --

WILLIAMS: So, a lot of people are detained by the United States.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And I'll also say that they -- (CROSS TALK)

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And I will say that the implication --

SCHILLING: And a lot more people were coming into the United States in those years.

WILLIAMS: Sure. Sure. Sure.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes, but I'll also say that the implication that somehow enforcement is violent and therefore these deaths are somehow acceptable is --

SCHILLING: Well, when --

CORNISH: And not accept -- well, let's pause on this. It's not acceptable, certainly, to the families. And as we started this story with somebody who's lost their father when they weren't even the target of the operation. So, I think the question of, what standard do we hold ourselves to is coming up in this.

I want you guys to stay with me. We're going to turn to another story in the future talking about NASA, because NASA is now recruiting volunteers for a yearlong moon and mars simulation. Voters will be in space-like -- sorry, volunteers will be in space-like conditions, living inside confined habitats and carrying out tasks, just as astronauts would at the start of the year.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CORNISH: An alleged plot by Iran to assassinate President Trump uncovered by Israel. Sources tell CNN they shared the intelligence with the U.S. this week.

I'm bringing in "New York Times" White House correspondent Maggie Haberman. She's co-author of the new bestseller "Regime Change: Inside the Imperial Presidency of Donald Trump."

Maggie, thank you so much for being here.

This seems like a good week to have this conversation between the inflection point ending the ceasefire and then this moment of this reporting we're getting now of a potential assassination attempt, information shared by Israel. This is a president who has survived assassination attempts. Does this kind of concern loom large for him?

[06:50:01]

MAGGIE HABERMAN, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, "THE NEW YORK TIMES": Well, there's no question that among the reasons that the president and his team were really radicalized in the interregnum period before he came back to office, and we write about this in the book, were the assassination attempts that he faced. In particular, he -- Butler happened around the time that someone had been charged with being part of a murder for hire plot involving -- or set up by Iranian officials allegedly. And in his mind, and in the campaign's mind at the time, it all became one thing. And so, there's no question that the fact that this new information about a potential plot is going to loom large for this team. It is going to raise new concerns.

You are already seeing a president who, Audie, does not travel outside the White House that much. Part of it is that, you know, he would tell aides at the beginning of the -- of the term, I'm done campaigning. But part of it are -- is legitimate security concerns.

CORNISH: It's interesting talk -- hearing from you in this moment because he has such a different cast of characters around him compared to term one. How does that affect something like prosecuting this war, where we see like while people are having talks, he says, look, ceasefire is over, and all of a sudden we are in the middle of strikes again.

HABERMAN: So, there's a couple of things, Audie. One is that this government, unlike term one, and one of the things that we write about very clearly is how radically different this term is than the first term. The decisions are being made by a small handful of about a half a dozen advisors. And if someone is not in the room with those advisors in the government, they often have no idea what is going on. And that is generally by design, including Steve Witkoff, who is Trump's envoy for everything, who had been negotiating this ceasefire or some kind of an Iranian deal for some time.

But we also describe how last year Steve Witkoff thought that he was getting close to a deal, and then Trump made some other pronouncement, and it became very clear that foreign policy, as someone said, you know, and we quote them anonymously in the book, is, whatever Trump says at any given moment.

And so, you are seeing that right now with this ceasefire where I think it is -- it is most problematic is for diplomat -- long-term diplomatic conversations, incremental comments matter, mixed signals matter. And that has obviously happened for some time here. This is also a war that the president clearly wants to be done with. And there just is no quick fix. And that is frustrating him.

CORNISH: I want to turn to another issue because immigration has been obviously a defining issue for Trump in both terms, but arguably he's probably made the most gains in this term. Largely, Stephen Miller has looked at as the architect of that. Can you talk to me about the, where we are now, meaning Noem is gone, we were just talking about Mexico complaining about Mexican nationals being targeted. Is this something that the architects around Trump -- that it's by design?

HABERMAN: So, we have seen a lot of fits and starts with immigration efforts and policy because there was such a flood the zone effort. Stephen Miller spent several years preparing for a second Trump term. He looked at all of the levers of government. He had it -- he has an actual plan for what he wanted to do. He is more hard line on immigration than Trump is, although Trump obviously only tends to react and, you know, reel Miller in when there's negative media coverage. And so, you saw that earlier this year with the shooting deaths of Renee Good and Alex Pretti. And these showy ICE sweeps into cities, these, you know, dramatic

displays that the administration would clip and put out in social media videos, those slowed down, but that doesn't mean that the efforts slowed down. And so, you are going -- you are seeing -- my colleagues have written about this at "The Times," larger sweeps. You are seeing -- they're just broadcast with less vigor and intensity. It calmed the protests down at the time. I don't know where this goes now. But they are trying now -- Stephen Miller had a target of 3,000 arrests a day. That was not doable. Now there is a smaller target, but it's still quite high. And he is very intent on pushing this ahead for as long as he can.

CORNISH: OK, that's Maggie Haberman. Her new book with Jonathan Swan is called "Regime Change: Inside the Imperial Presidency of Donald Trump." It's out now.

I also want to turn to this, the ballot for governor in Colorado, it's set. Marine veteran Victor Marx secured the top Republican spot when the race was called last night. Both of his GOP rivals in the race have said they won't support him in the general election, calling him, quote, "a disaster" and a "con man."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

VICTOR MARX (R), COLORADO CANDIDATE FOR GOVERNOR: So, if you are frustrated, skeptical or wondering if anything can actually change, I just proved it by winning the primary.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[06:55:11]

CORNISH: OK, group chat is back.

This is a coda. I'm sorry, Terry, this is a coda.

SCHILLING: You got me (ph).

CORNISH: You and I talked about this in -- last week. And you were like, look, ignore people like this. This was in our Platner discussion.

SCHILLING: Yes.

CORNISH: And you were like, look, this is not a guy that you should be focusing on. He is now the GOP candidate for governor in Colorado.

SCHILLING: In Colorado, in Illinois, in New York, in California.

CORNISH: But also two Republicans in the race.

SCHILLING: Look --

CORNISH: Sour grapes or them literally being like, this disaster is a con man. SCHILLING: Again -- look, again, I think one of the biggest travesties

is when these blue states become so blue that they're not competitive. And when they're not competitive, you don't get the quality candidates that you need actually to win.

CORNISH: No, no, no, Terry, he raised $3 million. That's not ate (ph) money from Democrats.

SCHILLING: I know. That's not very much for -- but for a governor race --

CORNISH: OK.

SCHILLING: You know, you can raise that just by going on a few punchy podcasts. It's really not that much money for even a congressional race at this point.

CORNISH: Right. He claims to have rescued 45,000 abuse victims. He performs prayers to free people of demonic oppression. Claims to have called an airstrike on ISIS. Says he was forced to kill a man at age seven. Who among us?

SCHILLING: Well, look, we got Abigail Spanberger, who's an admitted CIA operative, as the governor of Virginia. I'd like to know what she's done in her career.

CORNISH: From the CIA?

SCHILLING: From the -- the CIA does some pretty gnarly stuff.

CORNISH: And you don't want to know about demonic -- OK. OK.

SCHILLING: No, I definitely want to know about that. I believe in the spiritual world.

CORNISH: I mean, work with me, Terry. Work with me.

Lulu, the reason why I'm talking about this is because candidate quality, a term that we heard from Mitch McConnell.

WILLIAMS: All week. Yes.

CORNISH: You know what I mean? It's been so on the minds of everyone with the Graham Platner thing in the Senate. And just like in Republican circles, in Colorado, the voters want what the voters want.

What have we learned about the limits of that?

GARCIA-NAVARRO: We've learned that demonic possession is a thing, clearly.

SCHILLING: Yes, 100 percent.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: That is -- that is -- that is --

CORNISH: Also teleporting to a Waffle House. A different story. SCHILLING: That's different.

CORNISH: Yes. Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And teleporting to a Waffle House. I mean -- listen, this is a huge issue, I think, for both Republicans and Democrats and what I think any -- or what I hear from both my Democratic and Republican friends who are in the political system in that way is that they say, well, it's because the parties are so weak and we no longer get to decide about quality candidates -- you know, candidate quality. These decisions used to be made in backrooms. And so we could really vet people and put the best candidate forward.

CORNISH: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: And that is true.

What voters will say is, yay, I'm so glad that this is no longer being done in backrooms.

CORNISH: I know, but how come some people can ride it out and some people can't? Now, Platner is accused of violence. I think that clearly turned out to be a red line. But there's lots of other people dealing with scandals. Ken Paxton in Texas.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

CORNISH: Obviously, Marx. I mean his -- one of the people he ran against said she ran a good race and, quote, "for the record, I still haven't killed anyone." It seems as though --

WILLIAMS: That's the bar.

CORNISH: Yes, that's the bar.

WILLIAMS: Yes.

CORNISH: What is the bar for voters?

WILLIAMS: You know, I mean, we have to understand that primary voters in any party are the most activist and sort of most partisan of any voters in the country.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: That's why we should have open primaries.

WILLIAMS: That's why we should have open primaries or ranked choice voting, you know, as you have -- as you have in --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Or ranked choice voting.

CORNISH: Oh, they hate -- the parties hate ranked choice voting.

WILLIAMS: Well, but my point -- sure, but all I'm saying is that when the most activist people are the ones casting the votes, you're going to occasionally get stuff like this in --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: It's not only that --

WILLIAMS: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: But to your point, actually, when you have one party rule in a state, the opposition party becomes very radicalized I think. We see that in California with the GOP. We see that, you know, in Democratic politics and sort of right leaning states. And so, I do think that you get like the most hardcore people putting candidates forward. And we are in an era, we are led by a populist, we are led by someone who was a celebrity, who has innumerable sort of scandals, both previous and current, and I think it's opened the door --

CORNISH: Yes, but what we have -- we've learned, while he may be --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: No.

CORNISH: While he may be scandal proof, not everyone else is. That's what we have learned.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes. But maybe. But maybe not.

CORNISH: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I mean, I think everyone's trying their game and they're trying to see how far they can push it until voters or the parties or people just say, the establishment says enough is enough.

Rape seems to -- accusations of rape seem to be that line for the Democrats, but that certainly hasn't been the line for Republicans.

SCHILLING: Well, it was the line until it became clear that Platner was actually weakened and was most likely going to lose. The Democrats did not care about Lyndsey Fifield when she made her accusations because she was a Republican.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I'm -- what I'm trying to -- what I'm --

SCHILLING: So, it's, believe all Democrat women, not believe any Republican women.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: What I'm -- what I'm trying to say is, you have a president here who has many, many allegations. All I'm saying --

SCHILLING: Not credible.

CORNISH: Yes.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: Yes, well --

[07:00:00]

CORNISH: It's funny, we are ending the week the way we started it, almost with the exact same discussion is that --

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I'm not arguing with you.

CORNISH: No, no, it's the same beats I hear partisan wise.

GARCIA-NAVARRO: I'm just saying is, what's good for the goose is good for the gander. And I think both Republicans and Democrats need to -- need to actually grapple with this. This isn't like a he said/she said.

CORNISH: We hope to have more news for you next week.

Thank you for being in the group chat. Thank you for waking up with us. A lot of places you can spend your time, and you choose to spend it with us. I really appreciate it.

I'm Audie Cornish, and the headlines are next.