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Rep. Pat Harrigan (R-NC) is Interviewed about the Iran War; Non-Citizens Registered to Vote in New Jersey. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired July 22, 2026 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:32:34]

AUDIE CORNISH, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everybody. I'm Audie Cornish. I want to thank you for joining me on CNN THIS MORNING.

It's half past the hour. And here's what's happening right now.

Former Venezuelan President Nicolas Maduro due in New York court today. His legal team expected to ask for a June 2027 trial on the narco terrorism charges that he faces, along with his wife. They both pleaded not guilty. The couple has been in U.S. custody since they were captured in a Venezuelan raid -- in a raid on Venezuela back in January.

And the U.S. carries out an 11th straight night of attacks inside Iran. Central Command saying the targets are aimed at taking out Iran's ability to threaten the Strait of Hormuz. President Trump says strikes on a sensitive Iranian nuclear site could be next.

And in a few hours, the president is expected to attend a dignified transfer ceremony for U.S. -- for four U.S. soldiers killed in the Middle East. This is video from a similar ceremony, but this one is from back in March. First Lieutenant Tyler James Feehan, Private Isabella Gonzales and Sergeant Angel Rampersad were killed by an Iranian missile attack in Jordan. The other casualty happened in Iraq while they were trying to defuse a downed Iranian attack drone. He was Sergeant Michael Emmanuel Swinton, a father from North Carolina.

And those deaths are something lawmakers wanted answers for. During hearings on Tuesday, senators confronted Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth on past claims that Iran's military and missile capabilities had been destroyed.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. KIRSTEN GILLIBRAND (D-NY): So, why are there missiles left to hit Jordan and result in the loss of life of our brave men and women?

PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: As we stated from the beginning, the Iranian defense industrial base is effectively gone. But they do have underground facilities because they're the world's leading state sponsor of terrorism. And they've spent 47 years trying to hide their missiles under mountains, just like their --

GILLIBRAND: Thank you. Mr. -- thank you, Secretary.

HEGSETH: Just like their nuclear capabilities, because they would like to get a nuclear weapon to wield it against us.

GILLIBRAND: Just don't know what version of the war to believe, because it's either over or it's not over. It's within two weeks, or it's not two weeks. We have no missiles, or we have missiles.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: So, joining me now, Congressman Pat Harrigan, Republican of North Carolina.

Thank you so much for being here.

REP. PAT HARRIGAN (R-NC): Audie, it's great to be with you. Thanks for having me.

CORNISH: I want to get to this hearing because there are a lot of questions here. You're on the House Armed Services Committee. Do you agree with what Senator Gillibrand had to say? She outlined a long list of contradictions.

[06:35:02]

HARRIGAN: Well, I think there is a misunderstanding over what the initial objectives were from the outset of the conflict and what has actually been achieved. And I think the secretary gave a very honest answer to her question, which is, we have destroyed their ability to produce ballistic missiles. They also have a significant inventory of ballistic missiles that they have hidden underground all across the country that they bring out to shoot at America and our allies in the region. That is going to be a continuing concern the longer this conflict goes.

CORNISH: At the same time, they did not put in their request for funding money to pay for the military bases that have been damaged, which I find really baffling. You've got Prince Sultan Air Base, right, which was attacked in Jordan, the Sati (ph) Air Base in Qatar, in Kuwait, in Bahrain. We have facilities where we know what's been damaged. And yet, just to look at that image of all of these places, and yet they don't put that money in their request. Are they lowballing this?

HARRIGAN: I don't think that they're lowballing this. I think they're trying to give the American people an honest assessment of where things are today.

CORNISH: But it's not honest if those things aren't in there.

HARRIGAN: I think you have to look at what our future force posture will actually look like. Because of the proliferation of very inexpensive and capable technologies, like those offensive technologies that Iran possesses and is using against the United States, there is a legitimate concern of whether we should actually further distribute our footprint across the region to actually reduce the threat to force and reduce the threat to mission that we have as the United States.

CORNISH: But you can see why it might be confusing for lawmakers or the public, right? You're saying, we need this money for the troops. We need this money for the battlefield theater. And then, meanwhile, you're not spending money on the stuff that was damaged. You're sitting on money from the last reconciliation bill, upwards of, what, $75 billion that they have. But they're not coming to Congress and saying, hey, let us just transfer some of the money we're sitting on. They're asking for more.

HARRIGAN: Well, that's actually what happens if the Pentagon runs out of money the third week of August if a supplemental does not actually go through.

CORNISH: No, no, no. You could -- just because I covered Congress, I'm going to nerd out. You could go to Congress and say, we need a bill that's just about military readiness that will transfer the money we have already, that we're sitting on, allow us to spend it because we need it right away.

HARRIGAN: They're going to have to do that. They're going to have to do that if a supplemental goes through.

CORNISH: But they're not doing that. No, what they're doing is saying, make a budget bill, attach a bunch of things onto it, like the SAVE Act and then pass it.

HARRIGAN: Let me tell you why this is important.

CORNISH: That seems like a way harder road than using the money you have.

HARRIGAN: The reason that there's a separate supplemental is because reconciliation dollars are actually designed to offset the long-term strategic underfunding that we've had in our defense industrial base.

CORNISH: But their argument is a short-term request.

HARRIGAN: Those are supposed to be --

CORNISH: They're saying, we need stuff right now.

HARRIGAN: Let me finish, Audie. We have --

CORNISH: No, no, but do you -- I want to understand this.

HARRIGAN: I -- and I'm trying to help you understand it.

CORNISH: OK. Go for it.

HARRIGAN: Reconciliation dollars should be forward looking dollars. They should be actually investing in the new technologies that our Defense Department actually needs to be successful, to credibly deter our adversaries, not just Iran, but Russia and China. If we move and we reallocate those dollars from those forward-looking investments to operational expenses, we lose that forward-looking capability that we've deferred for 30 years. It's incredibly impactful to the future of our nation's defense and our ability to reestablish a credible deterrence.

CORNISH: Why attach something like the SAVE Act to this then?

HARRIGAN: Well, look, I've actually not been in favor of that because I think what it does, because it's so -- it's incredibly controversial, right? It's completely down party line. And what it does is it takes a must pass bill, which is our nation's defense spending bill, each and every year. And I think it takes it from a must pass bill to a not must pass bill. And I think that's incredibly impactful in such a negative way to the future of our nation's defense.

We should split those two things. We have split those two things. But I think we trifled with it for too long. That two weeks that we lost of legislative time, we aren't going to get back. And we've got a lot of complicated issues to deal with.

Now. I've supported the SAVE Act. I'll continue to support the SAVE Act. I think it's incredibly important that we have fair and secure elections in our country, that you've got to show I.D. to show up to --

CORNISH: But not attached to the defense spending.

HARRIGAN: And that Americans need to be voting in our elections.

CORNISH: OK.

HARRIGAN: But not attached to defense spending.

CORNISH: So, Donald Trump, in a Truth Social post, pointed to the Afghanistan War. He noted 20 years running, 2,000 dead. Iraq War, nine years running, more than 4,500 dead. Vietnam War, 19 years. It goes on and on like this.

As someone who has fought in one of these wars, I would really like your opinion on this kind of argument from the administration that says, just give us more time. And I ask this because you have said in a public statement, time is a weapon and not one to the U.S.' benefit.

HARRIGAN: Time is not on our side.

[06:40:01]

And at the end of the day, we have to understand that our military doctrine, and how that doctrine is supported by our defense industrial base, with incredibly expensive yet very capable technologies. We are not prepared to fight protracted conflicts. Every single protracted conflict that we've fought since the end of World War II we have lost.

CORNISH: So, is this what you call a strategy of drift? HARRIGAN: Yes. That's what's --

CORNISH: Is that what you're looking at with this administration?

HARRIGAN: That's what's at risk right now. And what I have been advising the administration very sternly on since the beginning of this war is that Iran owns the time. We do not own the time. The longer this conflict goes on, the higher our borrower threshold becomes for success, the lower Iran's threshold or bar becomes to define success. We need to be very careful here, and we need to stop expecting that a limited war is going to deliver us unlimited strategic results.

CORNISH: What do you say to North Carolinians? You've got four American soldiers returning home today in coffins, right? You've got -- one of them is a father who was from your state. Pete Hegseth may want to say, give us time, this isn't a quagmire, you guys are all impatient. What do you say to the people in your state, to these families?

HARRIGAN: Well, look, any time that you have a sacrifice of American blood, it is an absolute tragedy. And there's no question President Trump has talked about long wars and many, many deaths. You can take a quick trip over to Arlington to understand that what we have built, the American idea, is not free. It's incredibly costly. And I just -- I -- when Sergeant Swinton, and that picture of him with his daughter on his chest, that was played, you know, after his death, I mean, I think it makes everybody take a pause and say, man, we have to make sure that his sacrifice is actually worth it.

And so I've advised the administration we've got to do one of two things. There's one of two ways forward in Iran. We either have to declare victory and leave, or we have to actually do what is necessary to put the Iranian regime in a box.

CORNISH: Which is?

HARRIGAN: Where they have to make very difficult decisions. We have not yet set the conditions for that to happen.

CORNISH: Which is what? What is --

HARRIGAN: The Iranian regime has to be put in a position where they have to choose between continuing to pursue red lines that are intolerable to the United States or the west, with their very limited resources, or they have to take care of their 92 million people that are not members of the IRGC that simply just want a job, economic opportunity, stability for their families and safety.

CORNISH: But is that going into Pickaxe Mountain? Is that boots on the ground? I don't understand what you're saying is different from what we're doing now, which is aggressive strikes, which is what Hegseth has said.

HARRIGAN: It's very different. It's completely different target analysis. We have failed in the west with our assumption of how we win conflicts. We believe in limited conflict. There is no historical precedent for limited conflict to actually yield successful strategic results. I think we oftentimes forget that the reason that the United States and the west won World War II is because we killed 37 percent of Germany's adult male population, period.

CORNISH: What I don't understand about what you're saying is you say limited conflict doesn't work, but you also don't want boots on the ground.

HARRIGAN: That's correct.

CORNISH: So, I do not know what you want.

HARRIGAN: You can accomplish one without the other if the administration chooses to. The question is, what targets are they going to strike? Are we actually going to strike targets that put the regime inside of that decision box, or are we going to hit targets around the periphery of it that, honestly, will probably lead to a long term conflict in the Middle East that nobody wants to see?

CORNISH: Does anyone else have questions before I ask one more?

ANTJUAN SEAWRIGHT, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Congressman, why are we doing this? It seems as if there's been no real justification for why we're doing this. And it seems as if, in retrospect, what we had in place before was working.

And secondly, if the -- if the Iran nuclear program was destroyed, or obliterated is what the term the president used, then why are we back here now having the same conversation? Because you all gave the premature benediction to this on victory.

CORNISH: Yes. I'm just going to play, very quickly, an example of what you're saying. Here's Hegseth, a kind of before and after, so we can just have, in our minds for the audience, what we're talking about here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARGARET BRENNAN, CBS HOST, "FACT THE NATION" (June 14, 2026): There is a crisis with those stockpiles right now and private industry.

PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY (June 14, 2026): No, there is not. That is -- that is a -- that is a manufactured story that the media wants to peddle.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You have testified to it in front of Congress.

HEGSETH: And ultimately, we are -- our stockpiles are great, and they're only getting stronger.

HEGSETH (July 21, 2026): We face critical shortfalls that threaten our ability to also simply pay our service members, rapidly replenish equipment and munitions, and sustain vital operations without disruption.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HARRIGAN: Both of those things can be true at the same time. And let me explain.

We have the capability, as the United States of America, to face multiple contingencies across the globe simultaneously. But when we engage in one of those contingencies, it reduces the overall flexibility that we have to react to other contingencies, some of which might not be our choice. Certainly, this Iranian conflict and the timing of it was absolutely the administration's choice.

[06:45:00]

There's something that you learn in the military, and that I took from my time in the special forces, the enemy always gets a vote. If Russia decides to do something or China decides to do something, we're now into that second and third tier of reserve of munitions that we have, that we don't really ever want to get into because it reduces our strategic flexibility. That's actually why the supplemental should be a non-partisan exercise, because regardless of what party we represent, we want the United States to have maximum flexibility to deal with contingencies. That may not be our choice.

CORNISH: I think --

SEAWRIGHT: So you -- so you believe this is a war of choice? I thought I heard you say, this is the administration's choice to be in conflict. It's not a must. This was a plus for them. I just want to make sure I heard you correctly.

HARRIGAN: I would absolutely argue that the timing of this conflict was the administration's choice.

SEAWRIGHT: War of choice. That's all --

HARRIGAN: The conflict in and of itself, I would also argue, was inevitable. And history may record that this conflict happened three months too late after Iran had killed 50,000 of its most ardent oppositionists.

CORNISH: I think one of the things --

HARRIGAN: It could also argue that this could have happened six months from when the president decided to go. It could have happened two years from now. Iran has a rich history, 47 years of being an agent for chaos, and nothing more than that agent for chaos. This war was going to happen at some point.

SEAWRIGHT: So it's a war of choice.

CORNISH: Now that we are in it, I have to ask this question over and over again for the American taxpayer.

HARRIGAN: Yes.

CORNISH: We have no information about the actual objective at this point.

HARRIGAN: I don't think that's --

CORNISH: The regime is still in place.

HARRIGAN: I don't think that's true.

CORNISH: The IRGC is still in place.

HARRIGAN: I don't think that's true. You have five --

CORNISH: The nuclear -- there is still enriched uranium in Iran. The Strait of Hormuz is still in blockade. And apparently munitions are low. And yet they won't even give the most basic kinds of budget lines about their needs. Supplemental, yes. Blank check, yes?

HARRIGAN: Well, I think the secretary asked for $37.5 billion, which was a very specific number, yesterday in front of the Senate.

CORNISH: What's -- Eleanor.

ELEANOR MUELLER, WHITE HOUSE ECONOMY POLICY REPORTER, "SEMAFOR": But then Senator Rounds asked him, you know, is this enough to finish this war or is it enough to get you back in this room where we're having the same conversation again? And he said, I can't tell you that.

HARRIGAN: It depends on what -- he can't tell you that because it depends on the decision that the president makes. Which direction do we actually go in the conflict? And I think you have to understand, the American people did have the goals and objectives clearly articulated to them from the beginning of the conflict. Now, they didn't have a choice in the conflict. That was a surprise to everybody.

CORNISH: Which ones have been achieved?

HARRIGAN: But we've actually achieved a fair number of them. So, number one is to prevent Iran from having a nuclear weapon. Number two is to destroy Iran's ballistic missile production capability and their stockpiles. The same thing, number three, for drones. The fourth was to make sure Iran could not project regional force. That means you've got to take out their navy. And number five is that you prevent Iran from projecting terrorism around the world.

Which of those have we accomplished? We've absolutely buried their nuclear program. And we have the ability to have persistent over-the- horizon oversight and continually come back to those sites to prevent Iran from having that.

SEAWRIGHT: And you said that it's a war of -- Congressman, you all said -- you all said that to the American people before, it was obliterated, it was destroyed. And now here we are having the same conversation. And now you're saying, once again, it was destroyed. So, which one is it? Was it destroyed before or is it destroyed now? You see why there is a lack of trust between the American people and what this administration and you all are saying versus the real facts that are on the table.

HARRIGAN: I'm trying to call balls and strikes.

SEAWRIGHT: Same thing.

HARRIGAN: And what the administration has said is a little bit different than the way that I'm portraying it, right?

SEAWRIGHT: So, you don't believe it was destroyed the first time is what you're saying?

HARRIGAN: It's absolutely buried. There's no question about that.

SEAWRIGHT: No, the first time -- the first time it was announced that it was obliterated, destroyed, you don't -- you didn't believe that then because you're saying now it is.

HARRIGAN: It's --

SEAWRIGHT: So, was it destroyed then or now?

HARRIGAN: It's functionally obliterated from the perspective of, they can't get to it. And we an -- and we can prevent -- we can prevent them from getting to it.

SEAWRIGHT: You dance -- you dance really nice.

HARRIGAN: Look, you've got to also understand, their ballistic missile production capability far exceeded the production capability of our interceptors. That is a huge problem for a regional mal actor that very clearly is raining down terror upon the United States and all of our allies.

CORNISH: I think we do understand. We actually don't know if you guys -- if the administration is being honest about what they need to accomplish the job. I mean, clearly, this drone war is continuing, right, or else we wouldn't be talking about the Strait of Hormuz and Yemen wouldn't be having Houthis jumping in on the Red Sea. Israel would not be fighting Hezbollah if that also, the state sponsor of terror aspect had been taken care of.

We see a lot of half-finished jobs, and we're again being asked, it still sounds like you're saying a blank check. It still sounds like you're saying, well, I don't know how much I'll need, so I might need some later.

HARRIGAN: No, what I'm saying is, the administration needs to make a decision on which direction we're going. What we cannot have is we cannot have a status quo of doing nothing. That is what we have done through the last 30 years of the Middle East, indecision, trying to buy time that we do not own, that our adversaries will exploit and will lead to another forever war in the Middle East if we do not decide.

[06:50:02]

SEAWRIGHT: Congressman, you're --

HARRIGAN: That's what I'm saying.

CORNISH: I actually have to let the congressman go because we took you over time.

HARRIGAN: Oh, thanks for having me, Audie.

CORNISH: But I do appreciate it. I hope you'll come back. We have lots of questions about what's going on.

HARRIGAN: You bet.

CORNISH: And, honestly, I'm personally fascinated in the generation of fighters who have entered Congress, of which Hegseth is one of them, and how you guys do things differently, or not, than the leadership you once criticized.

HARRIGAN: I would love for everybody to listen more to us and our experience, because we want to see positive outcomes for the United States of America and the next generation of Americans, not negative ones.

CORNISH: Congressman, thank you so much.

HARRIGAN: Thank you.

CORNISH: Appreciate your time.

All right, coming up on CNN THIS MORNING, we are going to be talking a little bit more about Congress on another topic. So, please, stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GOV. MIKIE SHERRILL (D-NJ): Initial analysis shows that fewer than 400 newly registered individuals voted in an election due to this software error.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[06:55:03]

CORNISH: So, 6,600 non-citizens accidentally registered to vote in New Jersey, and then nearly 400 of them actually voted.

So, the governor says it's because of a software error. Governor Mikie Sherrill says it happened in 2023 and 2024 due to a glitch with the motor vehicle commission system. President Trump has warned about this very issue. In his speech last week he claimed that this was intentional. A pro-Democrat fraud issue. Sherrill says that's not the case. The people who voted were registered in all three parties.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) GOV. MIKIE SHERRILL (D-NJ): For the past ten years he's cried wolf and peddled bizarre conspiracy theories about fraud with no evidence.

The difference between my administration and this White House is stark. We don't deflect, deny or exploit problems for our own gain. We find them and we fix them because that's what a good, accountable government should do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CORNISH: OK, so I want to bring in the group chat.

Antjuan, can we start with what she had to say. She's calling it "exploiting," but there's lots of people who are going to say, yes, this is the exact kind of thing we are talking about, we who are concerned about non-citizens voting.

SEAWRIGHT: Well, this is why states run elections. And I think it's important. I appreciate the governor's transparency. But on the whole, we have not seen an incident where these examples have changed the outcome of an election. And Donald Trump and the Republicans have zero credibility on this issue because they're the ones who tried to override the American people's will by way of January 6th. And he -- everyone keeps pointing to Georgia. There was an audit of millions of ballots in Georgia around whether or not anything happened that was out of the way. And what they found, I think there was 30 examples, and they were all due to hand-written ballots or -- and so this is not a --

CORNISH: But Terry held up "The New York Post" earlier. I don't know if you want to hold that up again. I mean, fundamentally, this is the kind of headline I'm asking about. Does that become -- he's not actively smiling, but he is on the -- on the inside --

TERRY SCHILLING, PRESIDENT, AMERICAN PRINCIPLES PROJECT: Oh, yes, sorry.

CORNISH: About the fact that --

SEAWRIGHT: Terry needs a win. Terry needs a win on the panel.

SCHILLING: Well, I would say, to those that say President Trump doesn't have any credibility on election integrity claims, I'd say he has at least 400 reasons to have some credibility here.

Look, Republicans have been very concerned about motor voter and automatic registration at the DMV. This is part of the problem. And this is why we need the SAVE Act. That's why 80 percent of Americans support it. And it's just -- look, I'm old school. I think that we keep moving the lines here, and the targets. One of these votes cast illegally is too many. And it doesn't matter if it impacted the outcome of the election. It mattered that it happened.

CORNISH: OK.

SCHILLING: It matters that there's now questions about the integrity. CORNISH: Let me underscore that because I think that's interesting.

You're saying, it doesn't matter if it would have affected the outcome of the election. And I want to make that clear, because that's something that usually someone will say. They'll say, look, 400 votes. And at the end of the day, this was caught. I don't know if anyone gets any points for the system working.

SCHILLING: But they tattle on themselves.

CORNISH: Well, here's what Trump is planning to do as a response, right? Already, for someone who cares about election security, he has halted funding for two cyber security programs. He's closed the State Department's foreign dissemination kind of office. He's disbanded the foreign influence task office. And they have slashed many intelligence officers who were doing this work. What he wants to do instead is send agents to states or demand states turn over their voter rolls to match it with their database.

MUELLER: Yes. And he wants to pass the SAVE Act, which is something Republicans have said repeatedly they don't have the votes to do. And, to be honest, and I'm curious to hear Terry's take on this, I don't know how what happened in New Jersey changes the equation. This Congress is so narrowly divided. The Republicans have found a way, time and time again, to still eke through things that Trump cares about. And this has been an exception to that rule because there just isn't the appetite. And so --

CORNISH: Do you think that's why the SAVE Act is being jammed onto this defense spending request?

SCHILLING: I think it's a large part of it, because it's tough to get people to cross the aisle here. But also, we have to keep in mind, 6,600 non-citizens registered to vote in New Jersey. What's it look like in Arizona, where it's right there by the border. I'm sorry, it's going to be a lot more. That's just my bet. That's where I'd put my money if I had to bet.

SEAWRIGHT: Terry, Terry, Terry, the proof of citizenship bill is not going to cure this problem. This is a political win. This is an attempt to get a political win by the president because his fear --

SCHILLING: Yes, we want to win but --

SEAWRIGHT: Because of fear --

SCHILLING: Guilty.

SEAWRIGHT: In the American people. And fear is a -- fear is an electoral strategy.

SCHILLING: Well, fear --

CORNISH: Well, as always, Wednesday -- is it Wednesday? My God, what is time? Wednesday is a "to be continued" kind of day with our group chat.

You guys, thank you. We appreciate you being here. Eleanor, thanks so much.

And we know that you could spend your time anywhere, and you're choosing to spend it with us and spend it with the group chat and hear the news of the day.

A couple things you're going to be hearing about on CNN today, the dignified transfer that will be happening as several service members who have been lost in the war in Iran will be coming home.

[07:00:10]

Right now I believe that death toll stands at about 17. At 18, actually. That's our latest update. And we have learned about more than 100 injured, especially from the hearings yesterday with Pete Hegseth.

So, stick around for the headlines. We're going to have more detail on the war and on the news of the day.